Cork GAA Discussion Thread

It makes sense

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Fans screaming at refs for frees is hardly solely a Cork thing:rolleyes:

Good point I am sure other counties have issues with refs but I would only be seeing mostly cork games and reading and hearing what the players say especially about hurling as Kearney said in the echo the other night about letting the game flow the tackling and hits to be part of the game, rather than blow for every contac.

thinkstoomuch1

It makes sense wrote: »

Good point I am sure other counties have issues with refs but I would only be seeing mostly cork games and reading and hearing what the players say especially about hurling as Kearney said in the echo the other night about letting the game flow the tackling and hits to be part of the game, rather than blow for every contac.

When Daniel kearney said it, a pure hurler said it its time to take notice imo
I'd guess that if cork gaa ran a poll among players majority would say referring in Cork is too soft
In fact it wouldn't be a guess but a realistic view imo
Nothing will be done about it though

thinkstoomuch1

A post from last year

]12/01/2014 19:24
thinkstoomuch1
Registered User
Another game in Mallow ,a splendid ptich again.Mallow GAA had asked for the game to be delayed a half hour until the heavy rain abated,but as far as I am aware,Cork refused.
And rightfully so,the ptich was fine,no water retention,bar by the sideline,so just play the game.
Mallow are going a bit over the top,if they want to wrap the ptich in cotton wool .I remember going to Na piarsaigh v Newtown in the league and the match was called of last minute.The ptich was perfectly playable that saturday.
The good news was there was match programmes today .

I watched Ul warm up in the top ptich at the other side of the main one across the road,and even though it was a make shift team ,the intensity of the drills under Kearns and he doesnt do laid back was great to watch,its easy to see why he is a top coach.

I then had a look at our set up. wasnt greatly impressed to be honest,our set up was asking the players to do certain things ,i got the sense than,actually demanding it.Very nicey,nicey ,clap of the stuff.I feared that,as none of the selectors have a real presnce in management.You do not ask at intercounty,you demand and expect.

This game was not as tough as I thought,but as I posted at the start of the game,Ul had a few missing with Dessie moyne,ian burke,Mcnamee,o Connor,neville ,o meare etc out.As I said in the preview ,it was on the basis of Ul fielding a strong side,anything less and it would be a less of a challenge.
At least with Kerry when they name the team,we know that will be the team midweek,and it will be the same team starting at sunday at 2pm.

In the game itself,Sexton and o Sullivan did seem to be vocal which was good to see.
Early yet,but I wasnt inspired by Don davis.Too laid back.Driving home,i heard him being interviewed,and I was not impressed.It was all talk of lets put the shoulder to the wheel,hope for the best and we will see what we can do.That talk is ,uninspiring ,and in common with what normally managers that are unsuccessful say ,hope for the best.Time will tell.

Ken was very good in goal,contary to the myth he has no distance in kickouts ,he showed today he has.I had said he was there to command the backline and he done that,constantly telling them to keep shape.
Mclouhlin good going forward and did not fare badly against o rourke ,but he was suspect at times,and people must remember o rourke is not at home in the corner,he lacks the wizardy of a corner forward.Much more home at half forward.

Clancy done okay ,wasnt tested by o shea,but was immense going forward ,had a goal chance well saved by the keeper,drove forward made one goal,and comfortable on the ball.A real possibilty with others at half back.Wont stay at full,too much football for there.
Noel galvin had the job of marking ,o donoughue,and while he did take time to settle,jesus he did brillant.He was tight,fast ,tenacious and tough.Compare hes display to mcloughin ,and who they marked,it like comparing apples and organes.
Galvin is a leading contender for no4.Superb.

Loughrey very good,held whyte well.
Gould was brillant,balanced attack and defense very well,and got a super point late on,to show the confidence he has playing anywhere bar a forward.

Kevin o driscoll,done good ,but probably a few ahead of him for half back.
Laoire was superb,great work rate,kickpassing,super link play,moves the ball at pace,real football intelligence,and got two great points and a goal,but donnachas ball would have went in anyway.
Butcher,i am a critic of him,but today superb,work rate,won ball,drove forward at times.Deserves a chance against kerry but I do feel,walsh and leary or deane are the more complete package.
Colm o driscoll ,got a nice goal,but did not stand out ,and better options ahead of him,attacking wise.
Sugrue,a great grafter,lovely skill,feet like a ballerina ,is a player for the future.Had a great battle with t6 clancy who was by far and away ul best player at 6,orchestrating attack and defence well,full of poise and delivered some great long range passes.Massive talent.
Kerrigan good and bad.Again super pace,but Must play for a full game.
Goulding two great goalrworked hard,always showed for the ball.
Doc was superb,two games in a row.A real leader,constanly roaring at lads to watch and mark up at kickouts.Any time a cork half back had ,he started he-s run always showing and demanding the ball.
Cork are now playing faster ball in,he is thriving.He reminds of me ,of a big fish in a small tank,in that he was in danger of suffocation,under Counihan,in that slow laboured lateral football,meant he had no space as a forward ,with loads of defenders on him.

Now Cork show a real intent to move the ball at pace ,and he is now big fish in a large ocean in has more space,gliding around and making big waves.He really has the appetite and hunger,not past it by any means,and tormented kerry u21and highely rated ,martin tierney ,that he had to be subbed.

John hayes.Well,certainly not the best til last.Even he's fan club must admit he was woeful today.
He did not even score I think,dropped ball,gave woeful kick passes and as I am sick to the teeth of saying,he goes missing in big games and wont show for or work and make runs of the ball,and today was just ul.Today he played himself of the cork panel ,but cuthbhert will stick pick him.
Hayes playing in hes natural position,a man of he's age and expierence had no excuses today.

Last week the paper,the same paper  that said cussen was the answer for cork ,said  hayes was super against LIT.I mean it was pure pure ,in awe of hayes ,and how he got 1-4 against piss poor defending ,and how he was in similar standard to james o donughe,and hayes would have an indian summer.

Ffs,in all honesty ,LIT,were awful and the goal was a penalty.O donughe is an all star,hayes being compared to him is an insult to the kerry man.At a young age he has an all star,hayes never has or will come within an asses roar of one at 27.
Yes he is a fine club player,in club games,sun on the back ,in he's home comforts but he lacks the edge and mentality for the big stage.He is a gentleman,and a nice lad by all accounts.
My judgement is him purely as an intercounty forward.And he is not up to it.The west cork media,will blow him up.At the end of the day,it is not where you come from,just are you good enough for intercounty.He is not.Mark collins done very well as a sub,John O rourke,paddy kelly if fit,goulding,Donnacha,Hurley,Kerrigan,Vaughan(very good for CIT I hear)sugrue,mac eoin ,etc are all much better options.

Kevin crowley oozed class,when he came on,got a great point and sprayed the ball well .Hes cameo,you just know he is destined for greatness.Barry O driscoll got a good goal,cant read much in to it as the oppoisiton was poor,bv at the same time he showed for the ball ,and done more in he's cameo than Hayes who had way longer in the game.

The positve today was cuthbhert has credit due,matched hes talk ,and cork have showed a real desire,intent to move the ball at every opportunity at pace and direct.Cork hand pass not just to create an overlap.we in two games have kicked more fast ball than we did in the last two years and while there is lots of work to do ,and execution and accusracy must be improved in time,credit Cuthbhert ,the intent and desire to play fast open ball is there,and that is a welcome start.

The worry ,and time will tell and by the team picked to play a stronger kerry team in Mallow at 2 next sunday ,will reveal ,is have the management learned from the 1st two games,clearly some playes are not at this level.
He has seen them in two games,it gives you an idea.
The ul team were poor and no test really,better than LIT though.
The games from here on,Kerry ,then the league will reveal a lot about the management in have we a plan A and B, and are the right players being picked.
The honeymoon period with LIT,and Ul ,is over,from now on every game gets harder.
Credit cuthbhert for playing fast open football,and giving leary,crowley,sugrue,galvin game time but still questions marks remain over others.
Roll on next Sunday,a dry day please god,so both teams can play fast,open attack minded football.and we can learn more about our defence,and how our attack is against a good team.

]]]]]

A report last year in January 2014

Yes it's that time again the cork football season almost on us, just seven days.

Mcgrath cup second match of the yearlast year I post my post that game here as this day next week is the start of the mcgrath cup and apparently the cork ist team year will be announced in few days possibly maybe tomorrow even.

Imo this post is relevant from the early season last year as I feel that post which some fair point could  deem it as as harsh post, but I'd prefer to see it as a no soft approach post taken in straight up assessment in certain regards and I think anything I criticsed,the passing of time proved I had justification so there will be similar trend of  open honest assessment of every single game starting with next week if needed and I say it now as last year such style got posts criticsed at times as being too harsh when all I was doing was highlighting real real concerns that I saw within the football set up and unfortunately and I genuinely would love to have been so so wrong but I was justified in my fears.

Imo  cork senior management need to be ruthless starting next week then cork football would at very least have a start to work from.
Compared to kerry even in Minor they were ruthless, cork weren't all there was always an excuse imo.

My point is my fears I outlined in just second game of corks new era in some areas  were done in I hoped as season progressesd they would be eliminated and like next week genuinely if my posts seem harsh, there purely on gaa field certain not to offend anyone but purely solely on performance on the field I judge this panel and management and a spade must be called a spade even in these games as if not and people gloss over mistakes in ah not worry its early season etc etc, blow off the cobwebs etc then cork fool no one but themselves in even these games in while you can't rule player in to contention totally in the senior panel, you can certainly rule a guy out on these perefermonces.

I don't think any genuine fan likes to crisise cork men but unless you say things that are wrong, they can't improve. Tough love is my stance, regards cork gaa.

Yes there's games where you can not focus on to a point too much but in Cork case last year crucial positions were never fixed despite warning from day one like I was blue in the face from saying midfield had to be solved after every single game last year.


Look at my first two paragraphs in the post last year even I had huge huge worries regard cork warm up in just the second game of the season.
Liam Kearns with less talent he's warm up ul was top notch he was demanding more.

As I said also here clear as day that game some lads no where near senior elite intercounty yet as we seen in games after that they still got picked as I said I felt they would.

Now you could have a view Ah its early don't get too hung up on one game. However I don't buy that in certain things you still expect of a top class set up. Standards must be maintained.

I believe in most warm up must be intense Of focus etc, you must have a mission of statement
This was a new management team trying to make their mark but I saw no such intent.

You must mark your terrority like when you bring a dog in to a new aera for example, that's he new territory he will mark it in his own animalistic instinctive way by raising he's leg and doing what he does. He's natural instinct is to say my terrority.

I saw no sign cork set up making an instinctive mark so to speak by having imo huge intensity etc to say we have arrived, these are the standards we demand etc

Yes the talk was about cork jersey must mean something and who they represent.
I applaud that but when you see dualism and sub standard displays the talk wears off on me pretty fast. I cried out for a statement of intent from management from the picking of the back room set up from day one.
I have yet to see one imo.

This same lethargic  clapping of the clapp as I called it In that old post asking players do things than demand it, was evident in ul training camp imo in may even at times.
I remember I posted here while intensity was okay at times I expected more.

Do kerry or Cody ask players to perform.??
NO NO NO, They don't.
They DEMAND PERFORMANCE.
You don't ask for a performance, you demand at senior elite intercounty level.

The Don Davis interview,now Don was a great I mean great player one of my heroes playing wise, I said it then after the just second game didn't inspire me to truly believe and with all this set up this year they have imo been very poor in ,I never heard interview once in the year that I felt riveted truly inspired by them.

Looking at assessment of every single player I rated that day what is clear to see even in the second game of the season is the ones I rated and didn't rate in certain position, it actually was the same way season transpired mostly in those were good had good seasons and those I had concerns up I was fully justified as the season showed etc. Gould who I praised was at centre back he's not a midfielder or forward but imo been moved too many times he's not what we require now, I do feel for him as two poor managers tactic wise ruined he's potential. He had have no doubt  he had wonderful talent.

You see my fear management was you start with bad habits very hard to erase them three months on.
Old habits die hard

Next week is a mickey mouse game with greatest respect genuinely to the college ,cork will steam roll Mary I, but you can learn so much from warm up, organisation, Body language etc,team selection,management preparation before and after the game if you look and more importantly be prepared to look at in the game

I have no problem, managers trying out players in these games but once not lads where it's clear have no senior elite potential ot recall lads that have been tried and didn't do it before

I'm firm Believer in you going judge something be honest and open as if you cherry pick why judge at all as it's just a waste of your time and the readers time.

The team should be announced in few days id say tomorrow or Tuesday going by last year in picking team so far ahead which I think was a good idea.
The team picked will have a clear clear indication on the style players management are going for and concept and line of direction picking and clear as day isn't just reflection on players picked but imo management also.

What I want from management in this competition is to actually establish serious midfield options and stick with them and develop them, but not picking Club standard non elite players With the greatest respect to them who are fine club players but not senior elite intercounty level like john mcloughlin and Andrew sullivan as one example Last year cuthbhert took about six or seven etc games to finally realised weren't up to it

Minimum expectation imo is win this competition while trying out players but tippeeary less talent better manager could beat cork
What I mean minimum expectation is I mean is not to get carried away if cork win as talent cork have and been training hard for the last two week should be winning this Game in all honesty.

But there's certain things you can still demand of cork in a game like this And in the mcgrath cup overall as minimum standard like Roy Keane says you expect your post man deliver your mail, I wouldn't be giving him employee of the year as he's doing he's job if he done it on days that not meant to then absolutely yes as doing above and beyond the minimum requirements.

To regards this as a success more must be achieved to say so, In I want to see good consistent team selection, want good game management , settled half back line with settled midfield primarily with a defined style of play that will work in championship with a blanket system.

I want cork team to play with a direction that they know what their doing,a real identity.
I do not want to see gould at midfield as he won't work v kerry nor do I want to see loughrey, Clancy or Dorman playing corner back,i don't want to see canty at midfield or a forward line of cussen durrant and john hayes, you don't pick these guys even in mickey mouse games with greatest respect to Mary I if they won't do white heat killarney come championship against the all ireland champs who have no doubt will be better than last year , their young lads have confidence now and Gooch and walsh kerry be improved by at least ten per cent plus add five per cent home advantage cork need to make up improvement last year but find imo that extra fifteen per cent on top of the eighty they were off imo kerry last year.

Without peter crowley, moran and the star not starting v cork plus no walsh, Gooch, inexperienced murphy etc they destroyed cork in munster but with all available next year In killarney god help us is all I say unless things change.


I still don't believe some in Cork either know or More importantly in my opinion actually want to accept in cork football how far off we are and how much trouble where in and they imo need to realise it as ccb won't acknowledge the state were in we are in judging by the county board endorsement last year  which truly just imo beyond  belief that cork had success and we're not far off and imo does cork football no good going forward.
The only cork great to speak out was of course Mick slocum ex minor manager who worked with Cuthbert but he praised cuthbhert ,said the fans were too harsh, but imo as a great player he was slocum was a poor manager as seen by he's terms with the barrs and mark my words compare contrast them this year under excellent tony leahy they will be much much better and will beat balloncollig in their ist game I have no doubt as leahy is a proven successful manager ,may not win county but they will go far and he'll get every inch out of the team.

Lookin at the gaa review website year, cork gaa month by month, very good in parts and a good idea and I for one applaud and welcome the idea

I look forward to reading onwards regards cork football how the kerry and Mayo results will be assessed with interest.

In my opinion, just my opinion of course I disagree with way some of the results cork football analysed and in it was great review in parts I was disappointed regards cork senior football. .

Like for example cork beating kerry in the league . Let's not forget kerry had zero interest in that game confirmed to me by any shrewd kerry fan I ask.
Yet it says it was an impressive win.
I'd say kerry are in my opinion intrigued at that, cork think that league win was impressive, yet kerry blew us apart in the championship and look at our performance in games after that
Could you blame kerry if they read that said same old cork.
I certainly could not and I m cork man but I feel the same.

I'd actually wouldn't want to say to any kerry fan cork were impressI've in the league v kerry, i would fear that my view would be questioned after that and id find it hard imo to back it up and I regard kerry as ultimate judge of football at times.

Impressive that win in kerry was it really taking everything in to context, no it was not is my opinion.
I remember posting after that win and saying don't read anything in to it, as kerry had no interest.
It was a false dawns I feared. I was right that it was as results since justify.
If cork kerry league game was A true value then kerry simply wouldn't blown us apart in the pairc or cork struggled in many games after it or all the others problem that occurred wouldn't happened.
I read Donnacha walsh today and he summed up league defeat in usual yerra talk that it was head scratcher they got hammered but the key point he said was cork looked hungrier

That's it exactly it, kerry didn't be hungry as despite he saying they had something to play for, they were already safe at that stage from being relegated at that stage so they had imo nothing to play for Bar outside chance of league semi final in their last league game and imo certainly didn't want to progress to league knock outs when they training camp for Portugal booked from the 17th April to the twenty second so they didn't certainly imo want the distraction of the semi final just five days laterThey came back and that was imo only concern as they had that in  semi league would been twenty seventh of April.
Course kerry correctly so won't admit it though.

You see kerry when they had to focuses on the three or four mid league games, won them and Tyrone game so They got what wanted in the league,twas taper off then afterwards.

Just compare kerrys intensity v Tyrone to the cork game
It was world's apart simply as had beat Tyrone to stay up didn't have to beat cork.
Just look at the match up kerry had incorrectly v cork yet never changed them really despite cork winning them

Are we to truly truly belive fitzmaurice after what he achieved and great cian o neill didn't see the changes needed be made during that game.

Course they saw them but they saw no benefit changing things and showing their hand in a game they didn't want to win

There not renowned for kerry cuteness for nothing.
You can only but admire it tbh and crave cork some day will learn from it.

kerry lacked hunger and cork were made look better than it was and that win by cork judging to this very day the still high lauding of the win in some quarters was actually if we're going to be honest and I apologise if sounds blunt but that win was the worse thing could happened cork that day. The one thing I truly dislike as people know here is a false dawn.



Then in the dissaster of defeat to mayo in mayo where cork were outplayed from start to finish and Late goals put a gloss on it,
Yet no mention of a bad defeat etc etc , it was , instead it said cork lost to mayo their bogey team which imo My perception is like it's was saying ah this result is expected in they beat us before,it always happens

mayo football has in my opinion never become cork bogey team, yes beat us recently few times but cork always had mayo football number.
Imo mayo beat cork recently because when they beat us horan,Buckley and coughlan simply with less resources were better management than Counihan, healy and cuthbhert and nothing to do with being a bogey team.
Thers always a valid reason for any defeat I believe.

The tippeeary win was deemed a shaky start. Imo I'd say cork were haunted to actually win that game.
Dublin league defeat yes they said it was a disappointing loss.
Mosr defeats are disappointing, my reflection of that defeat would be embarrassing loss in Cork were in full control of that game winning wise and a huge turnaround by Dublin and they won pulling up in the end.



I await with interest how the kerry defeat will be portrayed in munster final.
Surely it's fairTo it say worst in nearly thirty years as it was that so I can't see why people can't say it as that. Would it not be better to acknowledge humiliating defeats as that and do everything possible to make sure they don't happen again.

It's bad enough been poor imo but worse again Is the non acceptance of actually how bad some perefermonces were just unlucky breaks etc we played lovely football talk, were close etc etc

Reminds me of Kevin keegan term with Newcastle, they score three we score four no wonder he was a poor manager.
But he preached a good and nice Football philosophy.
Dublin and kerry proved you can do both and actually win Though.

Or watching Tottenham hotspur on good day play lovely attractive football, the odd one off road result but no consistently, but they never actually win trophies, there a big club in name only not success wise..
I'm not a great soccer fan, club wise in the premiership but if I was it certainly would not be a spurs fan or that once great great club but now a minnow in the game Liverpool, or a few others to be honest I'd Certainly would not follow.
Their lack of real desire to succeed imo would conflict greatly with my sporting ethos and beliefs.

In soccer at least I have a choice who I want to support If I was to choose one, so if I was to choose it would be a club with a culture of winning and second best is just second best.

In gaa you don't have that choice, your county is your county.
I'm Totally glad I'm cork but we still under achieve.
But even if you were with a county that couldn't win the holy grail, you could still get pride, joy emotions for simply being the best you simply can be like tipp football, Clare, monaghan, cavan at under twenty one who have done brilliant in ulster the last few years etc have magnificently done good against the odds.
You can't ask any more.
cork with our resources are not the best we can truly be imo though.

Im not a particularly huge fan of pat Spillane pundit, and I'm sure he just revelled In he's sunday article in he's criticism of cork, I'm sure he did but like I said I can't blame him , I'm honest to say I do same in Spillane shoes.
Biggest flop of the year he said was cork v kerry. Hes Exact words were no spirit,No plan  no clue against kerry and he said rightfully so not good enough from brian cuthbhert team v kerry.

Let's address the key faults Spillane mentioned.
As much as cork dislike Spillane they would  be wrong to dismiss he's points when be fair he's actually right as some cork people even think the same

No spirit imo comes from management they instill that.
No clue again imo management at fault as they must shoe direction and leadership

No plan again that's management fault imo
Players don't devise tactics, the manager does.

You see some in Cork reading that probably say Spillane as be unsporting etc etc when if I was anyway involved cork set up I'd look at that article and pin it up on the wall and every single waking minute of every single day I'd be involved In the cork team id look at that and it would drive me to make sure cork football never gives Spillane opportunity to do it again simply by making damn sure performance don't merit such valid criticism.

The really sickening nail on the head for me was when he again correctly so had top two most improved teams of year was tipp and clare both managed by cork men with limited resources.
If cork  want to blow up manager then creedon and kissane deserve it

I remember saying after watching clare football ist session under kissane last year in a bitterly cold limerick, freezing fog the same night but my blood was warmed by I just knew and said here kissane was a top top coach in the making.
All it takes is imo just watch one session, I felt the spark I knew this guy has it. You just know.

I get the distinct feeling in pat Spillane way, just my opinion course he was lauding good cork managers we have not involved with senior, In he mentioned two teams with cork coaches then Morgan, to say look what ye got now, look at what ye missed as he had billy Morgan number three in manager of the year in the Sunday world
He was right though Morgan was real real success blending cork and kerry talent to beat highly fancied full intercounty stars Jordanstown up north.
All three kissane, creedon and Morgan particularly should have roles in Cork. Morgan be ideal in Minor or football director.

Good news is Ian maguire will actually be developed under good coaching by Tony leahy imo as Michael Desmond kill matyra improved immensely under him last year
Maguire has king billy also at ucc.
But we need another partner and it's huge ask for maguire with no expierenced effective partner to take the kerry Tyrone, Dublin, monaghan, Donegal midfield so young in he's career.
Youth is fine in a stable, full of spirit environment, but cork set up imo looks shorn of any real real belief and team spirit and it's a huge ask to expect maguire in this set up to hold he's own with no partner in the four league away games.


Also I'd nearly prefer to see kerrigan not starting as he's just hot and cold at this stage imo
Imo he needs to do less interviews, i said this last year. He doing too much talking instead walking the walk.
He done loads talking off the field last year but wasn't performing when the need was greatest like the great great I mean really Really great players.

Sorry to be harsh now but he's not captain so he should not have a need for media duties and I'm huge fan of he's talent and credited him many games as thought turned corner but he hasn't consistently wise
He came out and endorsed cuthbhert appointment last year, the only player to do so, imo that doesn't mean cuthbhert shouldn't drop him if form is poor.
He has without doubt the Outstanding talent but he must get real real focus and consistency in he's game at a vital point in he's career now.

Mary I are mainly hurling and people must realise this,most club teams cork would beat them handy
Cit hammered them with five goals Last year in their ist year ever game in the competition.

My demand is cork to score a minimum of five goals, yes not one. Not two. Not three, not four. Yes five goals and win by at least ten points and that's being rather generous as this is Mary I second ever game in this competition and with greatest respect are a limited severly limited side and cit beat them by twenty points last year.
They were in the trench cup the second division more or less, letter Kenny beat them in the quater final. Cork junior football and cork under twenty one would beat them that's no exaggeration imo so cork senior team let's have reasonable expectation.

That college team wouldn't have trained much and lot their players probably away over Xmas and they probably won't know their full availability til probably right up to the game also.
Cork training collectively the last two months.

There main danger man is the one and only Dan mceoin who I presume will be with them this year,I'm not hundred per cent sure if so ist real test has cuthbhert and Co learned anything match up wise
If they have then simple you put shields, or cadogan or galvin on Dan as mark him, you have contained their main danger man who got two four v cit last year.

Do not put Liam jennings or conor Dorman on him at full back
If they do then its poor call.
If mac eoin isn't there Mary I have as far as I'm aware no real dangerous forward Of intercounty standard.

The season starts next sunday and huge pressure on management and every game holds such pressure imo, in management must expect such demands as over the dissaster last year any team in any sport would feel the pressure in the year after.
Even in this game should be a minimum standard set, what level are our opponent at???what should be done

You tell players straight out perform in these you line start next game but you don't perform against opposition like this, your not starting next day,simple really you add intensity within as Mary I won't bring it so you bring your own intensity to the table by demanding clear and defined targets are met and your serious risk not making final cut of the panel if you don't perform in these games

You must create a culture of ruthless pursuit glory   only by doing this do you move away from sub standard performance of last year and the poor performances we had last year, just my opinion of course.

Cork must be ruthless on and off the field.
Cork Senior football deserves so so so much more than the serving were getting at the moment just my opinion.

I say this as genuinely not in disrespect of any individual's but purely on the field of play, I judge cork football at times where it's criticism simply as I truly truly belive in Cork football talent wise and I belive there's all ireland in them but only if we have management to turn the potential from a little acron in to a magic Tree and when things are poor if you don't accept their poor then you can never change and demand better

I always ask myself maybe I'm being too critical at times.
But then I say what would kerry, Kilkenney, new Zealand rugby,Australia rugby, Germany soccer, munster rugby, cork ladies football, man united, Tony McCoy, ruby walsh, Sonia o Sullivan of this world do in similar circumstances !???
What would their winning attuide demand??
These are all winners and I have studied their attuide to failure many times.
There ruthless in pursuit of glory And don't accept failure so there never down for long.
Its evident in their media, fans. Board level, managers players etc.

I always get the same answer when I ask myself that and think of the above I do it to be honest to my beliefs to make sure I'm not being too negative.

Then I know I'm not just being critical but I am realistic to know when to praise and when to criticse.
I keep using cork ladies football scenario fourteen years ago , I think it deserves be used as there are ireland sports team of the year truth be told. If we can't idolise them who truly can we idolise.

That day a brave brave young cork player just twenty too, Elaine Harte with no real reputation to stand on at that time , criticsed the manager backed by the panel and put friendship aside all as they wanted a better future for cork ladies football.
The gaa women's game I's truly their oyster now.
All because they called a spade a spade.
Emotional as it was and tough in Harte words she done what had to be done.
It clearly and rightfully so was nothing personal, all it ever was about was cork ladies football, nothing more nothing less.

This sensational epic story should never imo be forgotten in sport.
A part of that truly truly wonderful I mean wonderful irish times article a few weeks ago I posted below an extract from it.

It shows how cork went from ladies football having no "entity" In the legend juliet murphy words to now the greatest ever ladies senior gaelic football team ever all because a simple change of attitude and a refusal to no longer accept mediocrity but as the statement Harte read, "demanded" better for cork ladies football.
It simply changed first and foremost by a simple change of attitude within the game



The extract from the irish times interview

[
“I do think we appreciate all the moments. Even this year before the All-Ireland, we were waiting in the car park of the Red Cow getting ready to leave for Croke Park. I was sitting up the front of the bus. There was a bit of a hold-up – some barrier wasn’t working. And this woman in a wheelchair who had cerebral palsy passed in front of us with her dad helping her across the road. I presume it was her dad.
“And I was sitting there in tears, just thinking of how fortunate I was to be able to play first of all and then to be able to play in Croke Park with my friends in an All-Ireland final. I had this total appreciation for what we have and for the good times we’ve had together over the past 10 years and everything we’ve done.
“Jeez, I was very emotional before this year’s All-Ireland!” – Valerie Mulcahy, Cork forward
One
This is how it was. In July 2003, the Cork ladies football team spent one Saturday getting skewered by Waterford and the following one being pipped by Kerry and in the space of seven days their summer was done. This was not unusual. It was the grey sky of life as they knew it.
Second Captains

In the 30 seasons since the Munster championship was founded, Kerry had won 14 titles, Waterford had 10. Tipperary had five, Clare had one. Cork had none. They’d been to seven finals over the years and their average margin of defeat was 13 points. Actually, it was 13.4 but counting the decimals feels like bullying.
Cork were a mess. It often happened that they played Munster championship games where they met for the first time in the dressing room. Mortified, they’d quietly ask a new face for her name and whisper one back and roll their eyes at the shambles of it all. Someone would open a bag of jerseys and only then would they find out if they were playing in red or white.
Juliet Murphy tells the story of a challenge match between them and her club Donoughmore in 2002. Donoughmore turned up with 30 players. Cork couldn’t scare up a 15. The club side had to give the county side a lend of some bodies to fill out the field – Murphy’s sister got her one and only run-out in a Cork jersey as a result. The following week, Waterford beat them 1-20 to 2-8 in the Munster final.
“There was no sense of what could be achieved,” says Murphy. “The vision wasn’t there. There was no sense of Cork ever going to that level. I remember watching All-Irelands on television and never even imagining that I would be there with Cork.
“I never thought it would happen. That was something that people like Sue Ramsbottom did. You played in All-Irelands if you were from Waterford or Mayo. It was just not in our mindset. Because really, what was Cork? We weren’t sure. What was it to play for Cork? There was no entity there.”
Two
The stable at Bethlehem is a bar in Macroom. It’s late in 2003 and the Cork ladies’ football AGM is taking place. Elaine Harte is 22 years old and she’s bricking it. The team goalkeeper, she has been sent along as the players’ rep with a letter signed by the squad demanding a change of management. But all she can think of is what a bad idea this is and what a huge mistake she’s about to make.
She likes the management. A lot of them do. On a personal level, they get along. What the players are about to do – what she’s about to do – is going to hurt some good people. But it has to be done, she knows that too. There hasn’t been a change for seven years and the thing is going nowhere and Harte is sick of it.
She was the first girl in her school to play on the boys’ team. She played underage soccer for Ireland. She won junior and intermediate club All-Irelands with Rockbán. At every step, she has been about getting better. Cork should be about that too. She takes to her feet and starts to read.
At 1am, Juliet Murphy’s phone beeps with a text from Evening Echo reporter Mary White. The meeting was long but the letter did the job. Mary Collins from Rockchapel is the new manager. She aims to appoint a coach early in the new year.

]

We all know who the coach was.
Every time I read it, I'm humbled and awe struck by the bold conviction and honesty within of cork panel in that faithful day where there future changed.
They say life is not about the chances you decide to take, but your destiny is made by the choices you actually choose to make .
Elaine Harte certainly as captain of cork made the right choice that day. And immense credit due.

I have no doubt whatsoever talent is in Cork Senior mens football And have seem lesser resources of teams wins senior all irelands.
And again I say it there's a myth cork lost load leaders from last year yes they did but let's not forget cork had walsh, doc , cadogan   Colm. Kerrigan , shields, kelly all seasoned all ireland winners yet there's a false perception that this cork team can rest on excuses it's a young team.
When you look at the panel that's clearly an incorrect perception.
The facts are clear to see for anyone.

Cork senior football or any anyone associated with any team in Cork could learn so much both on and off the field from our ladies Senior football team and rather as some do look down on them,yes even after winning the award and all they achieved they imo still don't get credit in some quarters , in fact  should aspire truly aspire to be more like them and remember ladies football has more to fight for off field as our men at least have better support resources wise but the ladies continue to be successfull but hopefully ladies game now with the ladies gpa will benefit them the same way the gpa in mens game benefited them.

There was A reference in that article, to the dark days of cork ladies senior football known as the "grey sky of life "
I can't help but feel,and I feel sad saying it as a cork football fan , unfortunately that phrase wouldn't be out of place in Cork senior football in one all ireland every twenty years and the normality going to killarney and being beaten close to the last twenty years in championship is seen as acceptable by some and thers still the belief we should accept kerry will always be better than us and never try imo and truly change our identity just like cork ladies football did. . Truth be told it's an awful statistic,one all ireland in twenty years, when cork football has so much, so much more to offer. It's fair question imo to ask does cork football at senior still with just seven all ireland, have they a real sense of "entity ".
It's very hard imo to fully convince that cork has such an "entity "associated at senior level.
We certainly have it at under twenty one football in munster due to the wonderful john Cleary and of course tony leahy and now Sean hayes and gene o driscoll.

Wouldnt it be great I mean really really great if the grey sky so to speak was transformed in to a wave of bright red, lit up and glowing peacefully and harmonically in the night sky fuelled by glorious all ireland senior football success more regularly in Cork football.
Now wouldn't that be a sight to behold.

wackokid

Phew, wow, bloody ell, that was some piece of prose.
Well done TTM.
I am truly amazed that any one individual could have such an interest in Cork football and footballers.
Why?

History tells us where football stands in the realm of important field games in Cork.
For your sake TTM, I hope that history can be changed.

CORKDOUBLE

Well done TTM great post to get us in the mood for a new season ....we just have to try and be positive but its hard....re Dan McEoin i think he been injured for the past 2 months or so ...might not feature next weekend ...

thinkstoomuch1

Harty cup is just two weeks away

Rochestown and neneagh played last year in cahir and is imo likely venue, Rochewstown won that handy

Ard scoil twice last year played hammies in Mallow and if not Mallow then buttevent I'd imagine

Castletroy v youghal Likely be Cashel or Carrick on suir but I imagine Cashel would seem neutral in just over hour from limerick, youghal slightly longer, North cork will have one game already so unlikely be venue that game



Thurles v Ag mhurie likely be cahir but neneagh game could be on there also
Thurles should have a few of the white cup finalist loosing team to Ard scoil from two year ago while Ag lost dean ryan cup final the same year

Double header would be good but seems unlikely.

I wouldnt be surprised to see two games on the Wednesday and two on the Thursday, they have changed before and quater final due to weather was on a Friday last year

The venues I would imagine should be Cashel. Mallow and cahir however it's not without a chance some unlogic venue be choosen as last year castlematur choosen for hammies v dungarvan, poor weather it was cancelled and then Mallow got the redscheduled game.
Denis, do you have any venues confirmed for the any of the four games yet please by any chance??for the harty cup

Cork meant be trying get a challenge game v limerick this weekend in hurling Saturday probably talk was.
Waterford crystal cup the week after v ul so games are coming up fast enough, corn u mhurie in three weeks also.
Yet so early In the season loads to talk about

Smith your right regards clem smith. I have asked around he's meant to be okay,lots expierence from ahane   ballybrown won intermediate county title , was in Ardrahan in Galway, Newport in tipp, callaghan mills in clare, limerick minors and under twenty one, so he's expierenced and meant be young and innovative coach.

They have a huge ask beat rockies but should be competive, Neil ronan likely to stay for one more year
Ballyhea made good choice there as their was one other limerick man in the fray and imo it would have would been a bad choice if he got it
I hear it's the same back room team as last year smith, bar one new face Adrian gilligan.
Who is this new addition ?????where was he before??

Talk Is smith, clem brought him in which is good in it will freshen things up.
I hope ballyhea stay up.

CORKDOUBLE

When will the Cork team be picked for sunday ?

sean mac

Iif dan maceoin isn't on the cork panel this year and the likes of cussen, barry o driscoll, john hayes and kerrys George durrant are I will give up even going to matches with Cuthbert in charge. Maceoin has the footballing ability and more importantly the attitude to prosper at the highest level imo and is a superior option as a ball winning scoring inside forward over everyone else in the panel except colm oneill.

thinkstoomuch1

CORKDOUBLE wrote: »

When will the Cork team be picked for sunday ?

I'd say soon enough going by last year

thinkstoomuch1

sean mac wrote: »

Iif dan maceoin isn't on the cork panel this year and the likes of cussen, barry o driscoll, john hayes and kerrys George durrant are I will give up even going to matches with Cuthbert in charge. Maceoin has the footballing ability and more importantly the attitude to prosper at the highest level imo and is a superior option as a ball winning scoring inside forward over everyone else in the panel except colm oneill.

Those guys Sean I agree totally no where near senior intercounty level

Mceoin I'm huge fan but Hurley imo is just as equal as him as like o neill winning their own ball and Donnacha is like wise same but mac eoin is huge potential for cork

The main concern imo is not forwards it's half back and midfield and this ist team selection should really be interesting

Cuthbhert says lessons have been learned
Even when this is just ist game we can tell if same mistake are being repeated againwhen this team is named

Imo it would be naive to think this team selection is meaning less imo its crucial as indication thinking year ahead and their concept of players etc

wackokid

Fair play to Tracy

http://www.gaacork.ie/news/348911/Annual_Review_of_the_Cork_GAA_Year_Continues_Today

malascoile

Mary I have 5 or 6 of last years kerry minor team with them.

thinkstoomuch1

Cork minors beat WIT yesterday apparently wit had around nine fresher's team starts so good win I heard. Wit fairly handy in fresher's pushed ucc all the way while back in a league game

It erases fear of the Ag loss as I said it didn't worry me last week.

Busy week cork gaa
Minors likely have game again weekend
Cork senior hurling meant be playing limerick Saturday or Sunday talk was saturday in challenge?!!
Any one confirm????
The under twenty ones meant be lining game also football
Good news pat hartnett taking it like duck to water Im hearing great reports so early
I said it here more than once lads minors going to be flying this year absolutely flying I have no doubt whatsoever.

http://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/burnout-reaches-breaking-point-30865612.html?utm_source=indoshare&utm_medium=socialoremail&utm_campaign=indoshare

Great read, very relevant to cork gaa
It really highlight the problem dualism at clubs cork face even now at under age down to school level and shows again how ridiculous dualism at senior was last year by both cork teams.

Interesting point Anna geary had just 18 week off in four years in 208 weeks, I'd say cork dual like Briege corkery would have less
Very tough now to get the balance but tremendous credit for likes Briege corkery other dual ladies being successful this year

http://m.limerickleader.ie/news/martin-kiely-column-limerick-county-board-won-t-silence-me-1-6486956
It's limerick but we have seen similar in Cork at times and imo immense credit to martin kiely for standing up for himself and advocate free decromatic gaa debate imo.

Totally agree wacko fair play Tracey great idea and I welcome it
However like I said today lot cherry picking cork football review of the season
Look at the July months and August for cork senior football.

I knew twould happen, said it earlier lot cherry picking going on,and said I awaited the kerry game with interest.

Typically when the assessment of cork night mare in munster final it put it with three other cork losses with other teams as just way avoiding the issue and said junior minor and senior lost but yes typically of course had to say loss to mayo was a good performance the defeat and pride was salvaged.
Imo totally inaccurate view.

Im sorry now but pride from a defeat that ed coughlan mayo said they allowed cork back in to the game, after blitzing cork for sixteen minutes in second half to eight points to one, took the gas off and lucky to loose by just a point I don't agree with .
Let's go further   cork got 2-8 from play, mayo got one sixteen from play.
Mayo had from play nine yes nine different scorers from play,cork had just four from play.
Now I could break this down further but there's no point, crystal clear mayo were by far, the better team and cork performance was okay in the ist half,in the second when mayo upped the pace cork just like kerry, just like Dublin couldn't live with them. The difference which is conveniently ignored is mayo hadn't the real forwards like kerry or Dublin marquee wise to actually put cork away.
That simple.
The perception of good imo varies considerably as some have different standards for definition of good.

http://www.herald.ie/sport/gaa/mayo-battle-weariness-not-an-issue-as-coughlan-has-his-players-bang-on-track-30520513.html
Ed coughlan who I belive as he's proven in the game said nothing cork done but mayo let them back in the game. Crucially he also he said mayo were only third gear for that game.
I'd belive that over the other the perception tried to be given just my opinion of course.



If brian o driscoll was there, you said that them, he like he proved on late late show when ryan tubridy insulted he's winning attuide by suggesting you're happy one point loss to world champions greatest team ever the all blacks , he dismissed it as nonsense,wouldn't want it.
Yet cork had pride after loosing to a top four team, imo no no simply I can't agree and id find it hard to belive some cork players felt that way and if there content with moral victory cork have bigger problem than we think.
Moral victory ethos well and truly alive in some in Cork gaa.
Imagine saying that to Cody or fitzmaurice, ye lost but you have pride brian or eammon??
So what did kerry win this year, they won Sam.
Cork no need to worry we salvaged pride.
Difference of attuides by some is clear to see.
When you're all ireland champions you can have pride of greatness imo.


let's with the greatest respect not let cork football become the limerick hurling mindset at senior level where failure is glorified and accepted in moral victory land by some, to be fair not all have that view where defeats are always heart break, the we didn't get the breaks, poor luck, world against us etc where you have the clare, Donegal Tyrone the WExford totally opposite in that just broke traditional values and changed their future.
Look at clare hurling there new group, they expect to win more senior all irelands.
Talk to their fans they demand it.
Loughanne handing out all ireland medals Last year said them must win more cant think settle for what they have
Where's that in Cork, all we hear is transition etc.




There's imo never equal balanced views regards regards cork senior football, wins are lauded yet defeats embarrassing ones just causally passed over in Cork .

Same old same old.
I'm hugely disappointed in it could be brilliant review and was looking forward to reading the end of it.

Paper over the cracks, usual cork stuff.
The hurlers fair play got fair review it said cork were comprehensively beaten by tipp and huge disappointment.
Thats what you want calling it as it is. It's not good but at least it's honest.
You must have honesty within.
Talk any great sport man or team they preach honesty, when to accept failure as failure.


Why doesn't cork kerry night mare record defeat as pat Spillane said biggest flop of the year get same mention??!?
No instead they say cork minors, senior and junior lost in the same season instead.
Side track the issue beautifully.

We need a few martin kiely in Cork prepared to call a spade a spade with he's
Honest. Bold, open views.

You may not agree with he's views all the time but I have huge huge respect and admiration I for him.
Hopefully cork will have good seasons this year but imo if they don't I still fear a lot of cherry picking with results, wins over poor teams be blown up, losses won't be criticsed at all but more excuse after excuse.
No real honesty exists like cork ladies football have within just my opinion.


With those minors from kerry though, Mary I should still be beaten handy, as these boys just out of minor,but cork have been training hard the last two months approximately

You often find in college team, always late changes also and as I said this team is not a sigerson team but trench cup, only ever second generation ever in this competition.
If cork don't beat this team scoring goals and winning by ten points there's something seriously wrong.
Now it won't happen, I hope not but if the unthinkable happened cork lost then its a sackable on the spot in my opinion.


People have this naive and foolish view as it's ameautear game you can't drop players or sack managers


I'm sorry now but game has gone almost professional so much st stake so much sacrifice you can and people say ah but a lad devoted this time etc very harsh to drop him.
They seem to forget that the lad on the bench or not on the panel with better talent is sacrificing as much and he's talent deserves a chance like Michael laoire for example and Sean dinneen yet it's totally unfair they never get a chance yet likes gould and sullivan get game after game after game

Is that nor harsh???? Or totally unfair

Like wise if a manager is poor, it's okay to sack him as it's unfair to likes john Cleary ned English etc who have done much much more in the game would have equal amount of passion and commitment but never get a chance at the elite level
We never hear how unfair it's on the guys good enough that never get a chance
Cleary and English would loved coach cork and their talents deserved it??
We never hear really how unfair it's on them but yet you criticsed manager after poor year for below minimum expectation purely on results it's deemed unfair and the dare not criticism motto is spoken
The irony of it imo Begs belief.
No wonder cork senior football is the way it is.



Managers know these days and players at elite level know they must perform, simple as that
Westmeath had sacked Bealin purely and correctly on results.
Nothing at all at all wrong sacking a manager if results are awful and we'll below the minimum standard.


Just watch with interest the great waterford chairman paddy ryan who won't tolerate sub standard average performance with waterford hurling and my opinion is waterford will have new manager if not this year certainly next year.
In fact the next few week are very interesting for cork opponents as they have Kilkenney away, tippeeary and clare away in challenge matches then limerick in the league in gaelic grounds
At a glance those four games look daunting, possibly clare may be easiest win in Davy probably have clare training the day before or that morning in probably will want clare to have wake up call before their league opener to Galway, but three other games look very tough
If waterford who are yet to record a win so far new season against WExford, Galway, and clare lost those four games that's a loss seven straight defeats, then I'd not be surprised if a review of waterford season was done even that early.
Paddy ryan loves waterford hurling too much not to act fast if he's ship is loosing water

If that happens he's fully justifiable based on results,.
Cork football must do the same if we get a bad run of results a serious review must happen.
But that won't happen in Cork,be excuses like we'll we lost ronan Mccarthy, two dual players, lost ciaran sheehan Last year lost others etc, all that stuff be used etc.
Unfortunately there's never a real dawn of reality in Cork football and yet some wonder why it's still unfortunately the poor relation it is.
All you got to do is look at the attuide to the current failure of this season and the non acceptance of any valid question or criticism of it to see its all down to attuide
Cork ladies football changed their attuide at all level, cork senior football refuses to, simple as that unfortunately.
There's never a breaking point in Cork football results wise imo.

seventh7

Great post, I have to sound a word of caution re the minors. I presume Danny Gunning was playing. I want Cork to succeed in all levels but minor is the key to rebuilding Cork hurling. I hope I eat my words in the summer and you can all tell me how negative I am. I am looking forward to it. This group are simply not good enough, they are a product of a failed system based on subjective selection procceses and outdated thinking. They are lovely to watch neat and tidy economical with their movement but they lack substance and power. Take out Gunning and they will struggle to score goals. Goals win Games. If a hotch potch AG second string can match them then I would be worried and I am worried. Pat Hartnett may be their saving grace I really hope so. He was a super player and one or two in his image would go a long way to changing the dynamic and bringing balance to the group.

thinkstoomuch1

I'd agree with parts of what you said seven, lot valid points but this set up I's different in any lad not on panel Lad ahead him as equal claims


The only team in munster beat cork is tipp
Look at clare in harty cup their school have been poor, flannans be good next year yes and caoimhe were solid but both cork teams beat them so clare with aron shanagher will be okay but the likes of griffin and rourke held him well they won't be anything to fear
Clare new minor manager is meant be average
Waterford could be okay, talk is manager okay but school teams poor harty and I wouldnt fear them



I watched limerick the last year three years inside out upside down so to speak but that's as I saw them huge threat cork but I won't be watching them as much as I don't fear them at all now.
In few week I'll watch tippeeary as there imo only danger to cork if I get a chance.
And it be interesting to compare cork to them


Daly fine manager but not coach anyone I talked to in clare Dublin etc say him


Fine manager but you have limerick two managers no coach
Don't underestimate the loss of all Wallis to them, huge huge loss and lot limerick gaa fans unhappy worries he gone


Daly changing mid season will hinder them
Ard scoil have lot limerick lads and playing superb and going for eight semi final in a row harty cup.
But look at coaching staff.
No surprise, crowe, cork man fergal lyons, niall moran, young hennesy kilmallock, then clare captain under twenty one Paul flangan who works on touch etc that set up back room better limerick minors set up management wise better balance


Who is the tactical king in limerick minors set up now??
I'm unconvinced


Seventh I over Xmas talked some one who has links minor and told me minors didn't really have intensity in play v Ag.
I find it hard to belive Ag improved so much few days after loss in callaghan cup final or cork minors dropped so much.
Cork minors I don't hunger was there and hartnett was changing few things also



Wit are strong enough not in ucc or ul standard but there good enough.
Gunning isn't only goal threat in Cork
Kingston goaled magnificent last year v limerick super super talent , halloran can goal, o mahony being doing for fun in under twenty one, club, school games and senior


Looney done in dean ryan cup and harty this year

Gunning exceptional but if he's held cork have five other forwards to score
I have studied cork minors last seven years and this year they will do very well
The harty cup and dean ryan show cork lads have power and substance and even midelton lost looney, smith Mccarthy etc all done it in harty against their opponents.
Tim o mahony on young charville team poor at times in games yet he stood out in most games and had a great season.
Current cork minors have proved in munster competition well able to beat direct opponent in matches.
Hardest thing for cork is picking the best fifteen which like school fan said is talent in it self in the really great managers.




Tippeeary will be a huge ask but cork should and will get munster final
Remember midelton only for poor coaching would be in harty cup quater final.
Limerick in the dean ryan cup were okay, harty cup just two teams, they won the under sixteen d munster yes with crescent but only brian ryan who was captain will be on limerick minors and he's terrific prospect yes but he's no barry nash etc
I done post on limerick thread before Xmas regards limerick minors etc and Wallis effect I'll post it here I ger chance
I done do optimistic enthusiastic confidence with out justification that's clearly way I judge any team and I wouldnt be judging cork minors unless I thought had logic and I gave seen nothing or heard anything to worry me now
My worry was landers leaving but Wallis going and hartnett joining has really negated any such fears
Cork will have tough game v limerick maybes two but there winnable.

thinkstoomuch1

I have hailed barry o Donovan writer in echo before, what a wonderful truly intelligent, piece again yesterday. I only got chance to read it today.

If I was top man I mean top dog in a paper I'd give this lad front sport pages and give him freedom to write as he's good I mean good, you always can tell the fellas talking the talk but this lads actually know what he's talking about



Headlines in he's review club championship was managers are crucial as the village proved and he has wonderful insight into to tactics and used three great example.
Brilliant journalist and I always just my opinion get the sense he knows too well the poor state cork football is in, but wants say more but can't


He hit the nail on the head and said" club football hasn't proven any different to intercounty in the emergence of managers and coaches as pretty much game changers to most teams, even if it has tended to be in a slight less technical way.


He suggests management at intercounty can " only probably only properly influence championship games in championship by being tactfully or technically ahead of others, simply creating a full focus and confidence can be massive help at Club level.
He said it's" a crude way of assessing things but the successful management groups are generally the ones who end up as being winners.
He's right it's harsh and crude but as he points out its only way measure success.
Such honesty so admirable imo


Since I began posting here I have at any level always always simply always preached the words of wisdom of good management. Good management in any form is simply king of the castle,the de la creme de la creme of any sporting success imo




In summary he had three things he said to win
Good management
Strong defence
Key players firing


He said" wins in county particularly break through wins happen when coach gets the right blend of focus, preparation, technical improvement and belief in to a team

He's spot on , imo he has has the same bible of though as myself in terms of management value.

He said balloncollig had that this year," nobody will win a county with a malfunction management


Now he's principles, put them to intercounty imo if you can't win a county with poor management like I always said you imo won't come with in an asses roars of a all ireland title at any I mean any level in men or women in the modern day.




I said it before its not rocket science
Judging a team you judge management. First and foremost.
When you but a house you check it's foundation
When you buy a racehorse or greyhound you check it's blood lines
When you buy a car you check it's nct
When find yourself that dream partner man or woman you look beneath the looks you want character, you want substance, a heart a soul.
There the ist things you normally do imo.

When you ultimately imo judge a team you judge it's manager you judge first and in club scene while you may go with unknown like the village did in o brien , he still had coached a bit and you could see he had potential, simple point is mainly I'n intercounty you go for proven management with proven records
It's such an easy thing to do
I'd recommend any one who didn't see that piece two page special in yesterday echo to try get look at it, it was awesome awesome read so technical yet not one piece of bulls##the in it.
Some piece. Such articulate insight in to the club scence.


I have a bit of hope reading guys like him as hopefully they will if results in Cork football continue to be poor then some day we will get an article doing same review at senior intercounty level.
It imo should be done.

thinkstoomuch1

http://www.southernstar.ie/Sport/Briege-Corkery-A-natural-born-winner-30122014.htm


Inspirational

I admire the line small heads small arses by ryan
See the way no egos in the group and honesty within is spoken.
That all comes from eammon ryan.

Smith614

TTM.. Adrian Gilligan was part of Quiltys back room team. He was strength/conditioning/physical trainer with Ballyhea 2014.

thinkstoomuch1

Smith614 wrote: »

TTM.. Adrian Gilligan was part of Quiltys back room team. He was strength/conditioning/physical trainer with Ballyhea 2014.

Thanks smith where he from???
Any news cork limerick challenge sat or Sunday

Smith614

He is from Meath I think but related brother in law of quilty. Living in South Limerick I hear.

CORKDOUBLE

Lads just a word of caution i dont think we should be building up the Minors too much ...young fellas read these forums ....it just worrys me a bit ....you neaver read Kilkenny or Kerry building there players up ...they always play the poor mouth !! Look at what happened Dublin in 2014 they were on hiding to nothing ......just my opinion...

thinkstoomuch1

CORKDOUBLE wrote: »

Lads just a word of caution i dont think we should be building up the Minors too much ...young fellas read these forums ....it just worrys me a bit ....you neaver read Kilkenny or Kerry building there players up ...they always play the poor mouth !! Look at what happened Dublin in 2014 they were on hiding to nothing ......just my opinion...

It's very valid point but I don't think anyone blowing them up just setting reasonable expectation that imo is viable between over confidence with no justification


Limerick minors were huge favourite last year v cork and in munster and handled it

It wasn't over hyping cost them v Kilkenney absolutely baffling decision onein particular that you ask any limerick fan will agree playing of a brilliant centre back boxed in corner forward where he couldn't control the tempo of the game


As for kerry many knew minor would won all ireland I said it many times win it and had huge confidence very moment jack went in

I say now he will be under twenty one manager in two years and they will win all ireland
That's a certainty

Ard scoil huge favourite always in harty cup and always win mostly as good management can get focus right and keep players level headed


Good counsel that magnificent truly magnificent school in WExford had huge expectation in under sixteen all ireland final but won as had manager in outstanding declan wall that simply knew how to keep focus
Look clare under twenty one huge expectation they delivered as great coaching


Once you good coaching cork minors have Denis ring he's been there done that in they will be fine


I think also nobody said cork would walk all ireland I said tipp are team to beat but I felt cork will beat limerick that's not sounds arrogant or disrespect to limerick it just my opinion on management and players both counties cork imo are better

Purely logical prediction I make in same way I felt limerick minors beat r cork last year

Rebel norrie

CORKDOUBLE wrote: »

Lads just a word of caution i dont think we should be building up the Minors too much ...young fellas read these forums ....it just worrys me a bit ....you neaver read Kilkenny or Kerry building there players up ...they always play the poor mouth !! Look at what happened Dublin in 2014 they were on hiding to nothing ......just my opinion...

Very well said. Keep the young lads under the radar. It would be nice to get a run at minor level. But not to load pressure on young shoulders.

thinkstoomuch1

Rebel norrie wrote: »

Very well said. Keep the young lads under the radar. It would be nice to get a run at minor level. But not to load pressure on young shoulders.

It's great point but look I think it's fair to say the way the game is now most counties know opposition inside our and upside down in terms talent players and especially from the munster school competition where key players are known


Limerick knew cork minors inside out last year with Wallis in charge have no doubt he did
Like wise cork would done same him
Days coming in under radar long gone
Fergal lyons cork man in limerick Ard scoil, longergan Cashel Richestown, fahy with them from oola etc there so many inter county inter connection between counties good players always known


Declan Fitzgerald for example knows limerick inside out coaching there ul fresher's he's cork development squad just imagine if he's with minors ever cork he know limerick scence very well player wise

Dave boylan midelton limerick ex doctor son could be limerick panelist would know cork scene well so common now that most know whatcounties are doing

Have no mistake Denis ring from being principles blackwater knows waterford under age scene well

Days coming under radar long gone

Rebel norrie

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

It's great point but look I think it's fair to say the way the game is now most counties know opposition inside our and upside down in terms talent players and especially from the munster school competition where key players are known


Limerick knew cork minors inside out last year with Wallis in charge have no doubt he did
Like wise cork would done same him
Days coming in under radar long gone
Fergal lyons cork man in limerick Ard scoil, longergan Cashel Richestown, fahy with them from oola etc there so many inter county inter connection between counties good players always known


Declan Fitzgerald for example knows limerick inside out coaching there ul fresher's he's cork development squad just imagine if he's with minors ever cork he know limerick scence very well player wise

Dave boylan midelton limerick ex doctor son could be limerick panelist would know cork scene well so common now that most know whatcounties are doing

Have no mistake Denis ring from being principles blackwater knows waterford under age scene well

Days coming under radar long gone

I know that. But my point is these are kids and as cork double said some of them would read these forums. Let's keep pressure off them. Happy New Year to all. Rebels Abu.

commonsense.

seventh7 wrote: »

Great post, I have to sound a word of caution re the minors. I presume Danny Gunning was playing. I want Cork to succeed in all levels but minor is the key to rebuilding Cork hurling. I hope I eat my words in the summer and you can all tell me how negative I am. I am looking forward to it. This group are simply not good enough, they are a product of a failed system based on subjective selection procceses and outdated thinking. They are lovely to watch neat and tidy economical with their movement but they lack substance and power. Take out Gunning and they will struggle to score goals. Goals win Games. If a hotch potch AG second string can match them then I would be worried and I am worried. Pat Hartnett may be their saving grace I really hope so. He was a super player and one or two in his image would go a long way to changing the dynamic and bringing balance to the group.

seventh7. I can understand where you are coming from given our abysmal record at this level for well over a decade. While I feel there may be an overly optimistic tone by some, I feel you are possibly being too pessimistic. Personally I’d sit somewhere in the middle. I think this year’s minor hurlers will be decent (whatever that means!!!) but they are poxed with the draw and it might just trip them up. Having to possibly/probably beat the same team twice to get to a Munster final is a big ask. How the powers that be came up with that one is beyond me. Getting to a Munster final is going to be huge if they can achieve it.
To be more specific, I feel there is an abundance of really talented forwards – getting the balance right will be important from 10 to 15. I feel it’s from midfield back our issues arise. I’m struggling to come up with a midfield partnership and too many positions in the backs are far from being nailed down. For example, full back could be a real issue. The original contenders don’t appear to be stepping up and it’s looking increasingly likely that the newbie Griffin is in pole position. The positives - a massively improved player with a tremendous attitude. The negatives - unproven at this level and a dual player. If he was hurling only I think he might be the answer. However, were he to make both panels I feel the football would impact negatively on his ability to make the required hurling standard.
I feel it’s somewhat similar right throughout the backs – lots of really talented players but maybe not enough really stand out ones for the key positions. On balance however, I think we have the makings of a good team, one capable of making progress if the cards fall their way.
Regarding the AG/Cork minors hurling challenge, I think it’s a pointless exercise reading anything into a challenge game at 10am on a cold Sunday morning in December. And while Gunning is a great prospect I think the expectation is too high for this year at least. At this level it’s difficult for a first year minor (U17) to be the main goal getter and game winner - that year younger at minor in terms of physical maturity is very significant. One for the future, definitely but its asking an awful lot to expect him to be your key forward this year.

In summary I believe this year’s minors are potentially good enough. They will however need a significant rub of the green to make a Munster final. If they get that monkey off their back, they could be in big bonus territory.

Cornerstoner

Ring won't be able to poach players at intercounty level like he does at colleges level though

thinkstoomuch1

Cornerstoner wrote: »

Ring won't be able to poach players at intercounty level like he does at colleges level though

Ring does not need to poach any players from any county this year though thank god and certainly didn't need to poach players with fermoy county champions this year or cork all ireland minor champions before
There's plenty talent in Cork no need poach just develop them

thinkstoomuch1

It's valid point and thers a fine line for example limerick leader had huge huge I mean huge supplements in pre all ireland final last year which imo was way over the top but I feel huge pressure stems from not most fans as geuine fans know the balance to keep, problem I feel is from starvation of success that was allowed become from neglect under age at minor and under twenty one , in no minors all ireland in thirteen years and no under twenty one in seventeen cork teams so unfortunately next cork team gets to a final either code will have huge expectation as cork haven't won in ages and imo that's unfair and I feel for lads and longer cork don't win greater it becomes
A preview and all ireland final imo should be preview in give it attention it deserves but imo my limerick leader with right idea yes ,,,, went over drive last year for minor team when some supplements senior team wouldn't do it


But that over drive imo stems from lack success in Minor I'n twenty years for limerick so when this chance arise it went overboard.
If limerick gets all ireland every few years it won't be as bad so way you take pressure off is preventing large gaps imo of success like ten twenty years etc
As I said though limerick imo handled the pressure very well, young lads deserve immense credit for doing so, it was what on lead up and tactical selection cost that brilliant limerick team the all ireland imo.




Look at kerry, huge pressure this year getting final this year in hadn't won in twenty years so this minor group had shoulder huge expectation all because kerry under age was neglected.

When teams win regularly not same level pressure, but when famine very hard for team that has make break through that final win
Good management can help lads etc though



The key imo is keep success sustainable at under age in that no one team feel it carry the can so to speak

Obviously take dean ryan next year there's level of entilment naturally creep in in Cork after winning last two cups expect win a third and that adds expectation but imo different kind of pressure in that's good keep standard up like Ard scoil eight out eight knock out appearance year on year but huge pressure on team break expectation is different imo tougher pressure


The pressure will be taken off cork lads in be away gaelic grounds or walsh park if waterford or limerick in semi if get there so won't be too bad
And key Is every one knows is cork will have to perform v limerick away from home which is good itself and fact limerick have been kings under age cork lads won't get carried away but based on talent available they should play with respect absolutely of limerick but not fear and last year imo cork understanding so, I had myself fear of limerick has that was imo a sensational limerick team at minor


Cork under twenty football I's brilliant role model in they have dominated munster but never get carried away but still each year confident victory.
Cork have at minor every reason be confident which is what I would be, wouldn't be saying cork can just turn up, as cork management second year, and harty cup performance justify so far where limerick are with new management and lots limerick lads missing last year are not just awesome hurlers but we're leaders in cian and ronan lynch , nash, la touche cosgrave, lyons , etc.
That's very hard to replace for limerick this year
Unfortunately every year cork minors fail to get to croke park there will be added pressure on the next promising group to get to a semi final etc but that stems not from fans imo it's the famine of success creates that culture
Kerry minors be hugely improved next year even without lads last year is pressure off after their famine and kerry will thrive under that

Good thing Is cork minors with rochestown, Ag , youghal etc. Midelton , have won big games in their careers and halloran would been member rockies under twenty one win county team as o mahony newton has senior Club expierence so it will help them hopefully

I agree with parts your post common sense but everything in context
Gunning age is irrelevant in he's case temperament means he'll be fine

Classic example my point is where is most important position hurling field probably full back
Don't forget paddy loighln limerick was playing full back at just sixteen last year and Wallis had no problem starting him there in he's temperament and talent meant he was fine
Some players need to develop others are fine even if young and be terrible naive to rule on gunning out just on age

Let's not forget brian cocsran just fifteen when he graced cork minors
Forwards I agree, huge task get balance right



Valid very valid point regards griffin but cahill and add in o brien one code and do job
One point though griffin is proven at this level in he held shanagher of clare minor inter county last two years In harty cup and has performed v o mahony where they had epic battle In harty cup for a period time but carriglaline v Newtown in under twenty one that carriglaline won griffin was outstanding and actually one best players v rockies in county under twenty one final
Imo he's proven he's credentials.


Half backs no problem
Chris o leary be just fine. Cashman etc be same
Conor cahalane talk was while trial for football would go hurling alone



Management is king, people should assessment both limerick and cork and cork imo have jumped ahead over changes last two week

goalmouth

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

It's valid point and thers a fine line for example limerick leader had huge huge I mean huge supplements in pre all ireland final last year which imo was way over the top but I feel huge pressure stems from not most fans as geuine fans know the balance to keep, problem I feel is from starvation of success that was allowed become from neglect under age at minor and under twenty one , in no minors all ireland in thirteen years and no under twenty one in seventeen cork teams so unfortunately next cork team gets to a final either code will have huge expectation as cork haven't won in ages and imo that's unfair and I feel for lads and longer cork don't win greater it becomes
A preview and all ireland final imo should be preview in give it attention it deserves but imo my limerick leader with right idea yes ,,,, went over drive last year for minor team when some supplements senior team wouldn't do it


But that over drive imo stems from lack success in Minor I'n twenty years for limerick so when this chance arise it went overboard.
If limerick gets all ireland every few years it won't be as bad so way you take pressure off is preventing large gaps imo of success like ten twenty years etc
As I said though limerick imo handled the pressure very well, young lads deserve immense credit for doing so, it was what on lead up and tactical selection cost that brilliant limerick team the all ireland imo.




Look at kerry, huge pressure this year getting final this year in hadn't won in twenty years so this minor group had shoulder huge expectation all because kerry under age was neglected.

When teams win regularly not same level pressure, but when famine very hard for team that has make break through that final win
Good management can help lads etc though



The key imo is keep success sustainable at under age in that no one team feel it carry the can so to speak

Obviously take dean ryan next year there's level of entilment naturally creep in in Cork after winning last two cups expect win a third and that adds expectation but imo different kind of pressure in that's good keep standard up like Ard scoil eight out eight knock out appearance year on year but huge pressure on team break expectation is different imo tougher pressure


The pressure will be taken off cork lads in be away gaelic grounds or walsh park if waterford or limerick in semi if get there so won't be too bad
And key Is every one knows is cork will have to perform v limerick away from home which is good itself and fact limerick have been kings under age cork lads won't get carried away but based on talent available they should play with respect absolutely of limerick but not fear and last year imo cork understanding so, I had myself fear of limerick has that was imo a sensational limerick team at minor


Cork under twenty football I's brilliant role model in they have dominated munster but never get carried away but still each year confident victory.
Cork have at minor every reason be confident which is what I would be, wouldn't be saying cork can just turn up, as cork management second year, and harty cup performance justify so far where limerick are with new management and lots limerick lads missing last year are not just awesome hurlers but we're leaders in cian and ronan lynch , nash, la touche cosgrave, lyons , etc.
That's very hard to replace for limerick this year
Unfortunately every year cork minors fail to get to croke park there will be added pressure on the next promising group to get to a semi final etc but that stems not from fans imo it's the famine of success creates that culture
Kerry minors be hugely improved next year even without lads last year is pressure off after their famine and kerry will thrive under that

Good thing Is cork minors with rochestown, Ag , youghal etc. Midelton , have won big games in their careers and halloran would been member rockies under twenty one win county team as o mahony newton has senior Club expierence so it will help them hopefully

I agree with parts your post common sense but everything in context
Gunning age is irrelevant in he's case temperament means he'll be fine

Classic example my point is where is most important position hurling field probably full back
Don't forget paddy loighln limerick was playing full back at just sixteen last year and Wallis had no problem starting him there in he's temperament and talent meant he was fine
Some players need to develop others are fine even if young and be terrible naive to rule on gunning out just on age

Let's not forget brian cocsran just fifteen when he graced cork minors
Forwards I agree, huge task get balance right



Valid very valid point regards griffin but cahill and add in o brien one code and do job
One point though griffin is proven at this level in he held shanagher of clare minor inter county last two years In harty cup and has performed v o mahony where they had epic battle In harty cup for a period time but carriglaline v Newtown in under twenty one that carriglaline won griffin was outstanding and actually one best players v rockies in county under twenty one final
Imo he's proven he's credentials.


Half backs no problem
Chris o leary be just fine. Cashman etc be same
Conor cahalane talk was while trial for football would go hurling alone



Management is king, people should assessment both limerick and cork and cork imo have jumped ahead over changes last two week

The fact of the matter is a college team beat a strong minor team u would have to ask questions it was cold and early for both teams .

thinkstoomuch1

goalmouth wrote: »

The fact of the matter is a college team beat a strong minor team u would have to ask questions it was cold and early for both teams .

Which match?

goalmouth

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Which match?

AG v cork minors

goalmouth

As far as I know without being certain this age group have always beaten limerick but never beat Tipperary

thinkstoomuch1

Sound
Sorry now, but I think you requoted me in error there in repost to me, you will find upon review I don't mention cold or early morning start twas actually another poster, said time and cold

I don't belive or never have used cold weather etc or rain for that matter as any excuse team loosing

That game was end year
Cork minors had no real interest In that
If we go through every game they played this year minors played won must challenges

I'd hardly be loosing any sleep over it imo also wasn't full strength in Chris o leary isn't midfielder really and truthfully
Limerick played nenagh in challenge and I certainly saw nothing be fearful there in nenagh won lot possesion but two main forwards were missing
Evaluation of both, limerick are not ahead cork like last year imo.
Your right regards tipperary and I do belive at minor and under twenty one there the ones to beat
But that isn't important for cork in get munster final and guaranteed quater final
The point in question is regards limerick games and I actually think waterford could rattle them if play off as I don't rate daly as coach as manager yes

goalmouth

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Sound
Sorry now, but I think you requoted me in error there in repost to me, you will find upon review I don't mention cold or early morning start twas actually another poster, said time and cold

I don't belive or never have used cold weather etc or rain for that matter as any excuse team loosing

That game was end year
Cork minors had no real interest In that
If we go through every game they played this year minors played won must challenges

I'd hardly be loosing any sleep over it imo also wasn't full strength in Chris o leary isn't midfielder really and truthfully
Limerick played nenagh in challenge and I certainly saw nothing be fearful there in nenagh won lot possesion but two main forwards were missing
Evaluation of both, limerick are not ahead cork like last year imo.
Your right regards tipperary and I do belive at minor and under twenty one there the ones to beat
But that isn't important for cork in get munster final and guaranteed quater final
The point in question is regards limerick games and I actually think waterford could rattle them if play off as I don't rate daly as coach as manager yes

Ttm sorry for replying to the wrong post my mistake but u surely see where I'm coming from
But to say it was end of year and so on would I be right in sayin all these lads are fighting for their places

goalmouth

10 D lowney (Clonakilty )
11 C Mc Cormac ( Blackrock )
12 S Kingston ( Douglas )
13 M Hallaron (Blackrock )
14 T o Mahoney (Newtown )
15 R Flynn (Erin's Own)
This would be my forward line has it all strength speed aggression and each one well capable of being a match winner

Orizio

Isn't O'Flynn more of a half-forward? Looney will surely start as well.

Hurleratheart

Rebel norrie wrote: »

Very well said. Keep the young lads under the radar. It would be nice to get a run at minor level. But not to load pressure on young shoulders.

Dont think too many teenagers have concentration for this forum, better chance with twitter and snapchat ????, don’t use em myself

I agree with you in what your saying, kids can handle pressure in different ways some good some bad.

Limerick and Waterford will be ahead of us with there big match day expereince but confidence important to, with hard work and the talent we have we can make our own luck - from what I hear theres a good atmosphere in the group and there been managed well that way

Hurleratheart

goalmouth wrote: »

10 D lowney (Clonakilty )
11 C Mc Cormac ( Blackrock )
12 S Kingston ( Douglas )
13 M Hallaron (Blackrock )
14 T o Mahoney (Newtown )
15 R Flynn (Erin's Own)
This would be my forward line has it all strength speed aggression and each one well capable of being a match winner

think Gunning will start, going well in challenges even do didnt score from play in schools final.  agree with itmakesense too many 17s not a good sign of a team maybe one or two. a year makes a huge difference

Lowney being tried at centre back and o leary moved to midfield last few games but spose they are trying different things.  Lowney nice touch, works hard and fast, reminds me a bit of Twomey from Newtown, id prefer a more traditional physical centre back like o leary myself - a good strong centre back can control a game Aussie Gleeson fro Waterford )key position 

Game V Limerick 8th April so wont be long coming when new year comes in

seventh7

Listen I have to agree with you, guys were playing for their places. TTM is an authority on all that is hurling but I have to disagree with him on the minors.
I was at the game, it was cold for all thirty players. To say the Cork minors were not interested is a bit of a cop out. There are kids all over the County who dream of pulling on the red jersey. It still stir's the blood and moves kids to great feats or at least it should.
One could use the excuse that the Ag had Dayne Lee and that he played out of his skin, the fact of the matter is barely touched the sliothar during the game. Add in the fact that the college side did not start their first choice centre back or half backs then you can see the perspective of the game. Bad conditions and heavy underfoot conditions apply for all players whatever the game.
I have heard all the excuses imaginable for all the underage teams and in fairness to the kids concerned they are not at fault. The buck must stop with the coaching. Before you all tell me about the wonderful coaches and their pedigrees, when was the last time we won a minor all Ireland 2001 I believe. So we have had no succesful minor coach in the last 13 soon to be 14 years. However during that period we contested five all Ireland Senior finals winning 2. Its clear that there appears to be little to support the theory that underage success is nesscary to acheive the ultimate goal until you look at the minor roll of honour in that time period, Kilkenny won five, tipp won three, Galway four and waterford took one. Therefore it would appear that minor titles have a bearing on the destination of the Liam McCarthy. What is clear is that minor can set the tone when bringing through players to senior level and developing a system of play that brings success.
Cork senior hurlers have punched far above their weight during this time period which is evident by contesting 5 finals and winning 2.
So what creates the disparity we can't buy a minor title yet we contested over one third of the senior finals in that period. Could it be our selection proccess ?, is minor selection too political ?, do we select unbalanced sides with emphasis on abilites that are no longer paramount in the modern game. Something is dysfunctional here and I feel it may be a combination of a lot of factors. In any case this crop of Minors will have to step up to the mark as frankly I would be worried. I

commonsense.

seventh7 wrote: »

Listen I have to agree with you, guys were playing for their places. TTM is an authority on all that is hurling but I have to disagree with him on the minors.
I was at the game, it was cold for all thirty players. To say the Cork minors were not interested is a bit of a cop out. There are kids all over the County who dream of pulling on the red jersey. It still stir's the blood and moves kids to great feats or at least it should.
One could use the excuse that the Ag had Dayne Lee and that he played out of his skin, the fact of the matter is barely touched the sliothar during the game. Add in the fact that the college side did not start their first choice centre back or half backs then you can see the perspective of the game. Bad conditions and heavy underfoot conditions apply for all players whatever the game.
I have heard all the excuses imaginable for all the underage teams and in fairness to the kids concerned they are not at fault. The buck must stop with the coaching. Before you all tell me about the wonderful coaches and their pedigrees, when was the last time we won a minor all Ireland 2001 I believe. So we have had no succesful minor coach in the last 13 soon to be 14 years. However during that period we contested five all Ireland Senior finals winning 2. Its clear that there appears to be little to support the theory that underage success is nesscary to acheive the ultimate goal until you look at the minor roll of honour in that time period, Kilkenny won five, tipp won three, Galway four and waterford took one. Therefore it would appear that minor titles have a bearing on the destination of the Liam McCarthy. What is clear is that minor can set the tone when bringing through players to senior level and developing a system of play that brings success.
Cork senior hurlers have punched far above their weight during this time period which is evident by contesting 5 finals and winning 2.
So what creates the disparity we can't buy a minor title yet we contested over one third of the senior finals in that period. Could it be our selection proccess ?, is minor selection too political ?, do we select unbalanced sides with emphasis on abilites that are no longer paramount in the modern game. Something is dysfunctional here and I feel it may be a combination of a lot of factors. In any case this crop of Minors will have to step up to the mark as frankly I would be worried. I

You raise some very interesting points above. Worthy of serious debate.

Re AG v minors - minors beat WIT freshers on Monday. On paper WIT would be a significantly better team than AG. Personally I read very little in to challenge game results (win or lose) at this point in their preparations.

Figsy32

seventh7 wrote: »

Listen I have to agree with you, guys were playing for their places. TTM is an authority on all that is hurling but I have to disagree with him on the minors.
I was at the game, it was cold for all thirty players. To say the Cork minors were not interested is a bit of a cop out. There are kids all over the County who dream of pulling on the red jersey. It still stir's the blood and moves kids to great feats or at least it should.
One could use the excuse that the Ag had Dayne Lee and that he played out of his skin, the fact of the matter is barely touched the sliothar during the game. Add in the fact that the college side did not start their first choice centre back or half backs then you can see the perspective of the game. Bad conditions and heavy underfoot conditions apply for all players whatever the game.
I have heard all the excuses imaginable for all the underage teams and in fairness to the kids concerned they are not at fault. The buck must stop with the coaching. Before you all tell me about the wonderful coaches and their pedigrees, when was the last time we won a minor all Ireland 2001 I believe. So we have had no succesful minor coach in the last 13 soon to be 14 years. However during that period we contested five all Ireland Senior finals winning 2. Its clear that there appears to be little to support the theory that underage success is nesscary to acheive the ultimate goal until you look at the minor roll of honour in that time period, Kilkenny won five, tipp won three, Galway four and waterford took one. Therefore it would appear that minor titles have a bearing on the destination of the Liam McCarthy. What is clear is that minor can set the tone when bringing through players to senior level and developing a system of play that brings success.
Cork senior hurlers have punched far above their weight during this time period which is evident by contesting 5 finals and winning 2.
So what creates the disparity we can't buy a minor title yet we contested over one third of the senior finals in that period. Could it be our selection proccess ?, is minor selection too political ?, do we select unbalanced sides with emphasis on abilites that are no longer paramount in the modern game. Something is dysfunctional here and I feel it may be a combination of a lot of factors. In any case this crop of Minors will have to step up to the mark as frankly I would be worried. I

Just on the AG game, at the end of the day it's one game in December that's not going to count for anything in the Summer.

You can criticise or praise anybody if you pick out a single game when they play so many challenges. The intensity can't be kept up all winter, it's not realistic.

As bad as they may have been against AG they were spectacular against Blackrock 21s the week before the 21 County Final. Flynn played in the corner was absolutely fantastic and the Rockies were forced to change marker 3 times on him. (he was superb in the air, could definitely see him playing in the half forward line). Cahill in full back was excellent also as well as the midfielder from Sars whose name escapes me now. (Donal something)

I suppose the point I'm trying to make is that they'll play so many of these games before the Summer that they're bound to have off days, especially so close to Xmas when they're just finished school. They're kids, not robots.

I'd be more positive regarding this team. They're big, strong and have about 8 serious forwards.

My one worry would be they're perhaps a little slow in the back line if the team people are suggesting is correct?

thinkstoomuch1

commonsense. wrote: »

You raise some very interesting points above. Worthy of serious debate.

Re AG v minors - minors beat WIT freshers on Monday. On paper WIT would be a significantly better team than AG. Personally I read very little in to challenge game results (win or lose) at this point in their preparations.

That's exactly it in nutshell

Wit had I was told bout nine or ten fresher's team that pushed all ucc fresher's team to me second best fresher's along ul in country two points Yet cork bear them


Seventh you have good points but ask yourself this after poor rochestown game they didn't improve that much in four days nor did cork minors dropped after December form

Minors be flying in challenge game and whole you're right in you should bring intensity every he challenges this is unlike senior where these are still young young lads


Kilkenney and limerick both lost one if not more challenge match last year
I talker some one close links to them and he's often my scource for information

Now I'm no authority on hurling but this fella is what he doesn't know is not worth know

He's had no worry regards Ag lost cork lads has no interest and word caution to Ag wouldn't want to read too much in to it thinking they turned corner either as that's was not real test


Ag management have proved v Thurles imo
Also Dan gunning got three goal v cork minors limerick imo don't have anyone like him cork has to mark
Gunning simply sensational, not good. Not very good. He's actually better than that
Ronan lynch was just sixteen also he started and starred for limerick minors, list I's endless


Lowney is real work horse and fine strong but imo wouldnt have him considered for starting he's imo certainly started for cork minor football

Chris o leary is centre back if you have doubts you call up shane walsh panel
If they want Tim o mahony can play centre back also has done if want free up forward line


Robbie flynn I said it since October even august saw him Mallow is certain starters has to be is absolutely imperious under high ball is better half forward than Lowney can do all Lowney can and more
Cormack slightly would loose out place simply as from play scoring below other forward I'd have and cork have plenty free takers

Looney has to and is automatic starter mark my words bar injury
Lad just sixteen last year came on sub v limerick got outrageous point I know he's highely rated by cork has big big game expierence outstanding aghada in intermediate championship

Gunning will start also and I know limerick expect him to start and saw him real danger however with Wallis gone I font think they will have a plan to hold him

Goal mouth I'm sorry I don't see point in loosing to Ag big deal I'n if lost two in row yes but they beat wit so just once off and everything must be taken within context

Real litmus test in sense will be hammies and more so rochestown v Ard scoil have they closed gap at harty and I say rochestown more as I think they have better chance of beating them simply as they have excellent spine to team with full back in griffin that hammies don't

thinkstoomuch1

This post I done in limerick thread two week ago,should posted here at the time but didn't, touching on wallis and limerick hurling and minors

Hugely relevant to cork imo there our opponent at least once.
It really centres around the essence of good management imo also
Only around sixteen week or so to the opener, not long at all to go now.
When you judge a teams chances In a game you also must judge the strength and weakness of your opponent imo
Limerick are strong yes but imo not nowhere as strong as last year and while valid points made regards cork lacking big game expierence, key leaders intercounty wise, lot from limerick are absent from Last year

Loughlin, grimes and Flanagan will be main ones but don't have as many as Last year and they don't have the same depth Im strength of the panel imo either, cork imo have much more depth considered lads can't even get on the panel would imo make the limerick panel

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Daly is doing both roles with limerick hurling it seems.
My opinion is I don't think this appointment will work at all.

As said by some here daly record as progressive coach is not exceptional, I do think he done okay with clare and I'd rate him as manager and dublin to degree but coaching I wouldn't tbh think he's great that aera
He won a leinster title with dublin but as said here by a poster in  valid points dublin suffered huge defeats at times

He was coaching director with kikmhill in clare doing exactly same role bringing under fourteen to minor
Didn't set world alight even though it's football aera so he had resistance to be fair to overcome.

He's going to bring he own drills so imo it be be hugely different than Wallis and considering  it's four months to the cork game I think a huge sea change will work against them mid term
For a man that's always be main man, hard see how he'll work second command to Leo when imo limerick have two managers now that imo are not specialsed coaches of strength
I see daly more as a manager.

I remain to be convinced tactical wise is he better than Wallis

Hurling talent is in limerick but direction and innovation is paramount to success, daly has leadership and certainly good communication with players but to develop innovative strategy, vision of coaching plan from underage fourteen to the minors and implement successful one I'd have doubts at intercounty level.

I'd agree with the poster said john Minogue would be ideal like you said or even séanie mcmahon from clare perspective but hes with clare probably or even jamsie o connor but he's probably too much on
Imo joe Quaid would been ideal, thinks outside box, desire,hunger be successful, very intelligent hurling wise
Should got main role few years ago but was declined it but then offered selector and rightfully so declined the offer of being a selector when having won all ireland under sixteen in 2012 beating Galway in final in nenagh handy ronan lynch got goal should stayed that group players and him as manager and Wallis coach would worked treat with excellent Steven macdonagh as defence Coach .

Himself and niall moran imo only coaches in limerick could work with minors as for senior imo I don't think any one in limerick is up to the job as the main man seen by fact most county titles club are even not won by limerick coached teams
Peter finn obviously good coach but apparently if true declined work senior this year
Kinnerks going travelling but committing clare afterwards

Imo kinnerks would never join tj Ryan set up. Offered lucatravie deal in august declined as imo he favours short possession game in he coaching, why would he join limerick who won't even contemplating such style and there's evidence kinnerks can coach a direct style yes but he favours short game, that's crucial points missed imo.

I watched caoimhins twice this year under him and they played a short sweeper game even at school level and possesion game essentially.

A lot of the time it seems to be forgotten to take this factor in consideration when repeatedly linking him to limerick
Style of play with limerick and clare imo is completely different.
Clare can play orthodox or a sweeper. Kinnerk has two styles, yes this magnificent seven different styles that Davy claimed clare have is probably a myth, but there certainly no one trick poney imo.

Limerick could play a sweeper successfully and possesion game with new generation but won't.

Imo he joined limerick football as he has major influence as because it is seen as a poor relation no body wants know much bout it so he will be left alone do things he way and won't be questioned at all, and can do things he way and has major say in the running of it.

If he's with hurling no guarantee that some one in limerick hurling won't give him seem freedom of ownership to do things he's way às some in limerick think they can do better on occasions as history clearly shows.

He's with clare under twenty ones and senior and despite the myth, Davy Fitzgerald imo is not the dictator being made out to be but trusts coaches like kinnerks and allows them do things there way and at under twenty one and senior been successful with clare

It's valid concern in imo to suggest that if he's in limerick hurling in some role or other he won't get the level of ownership despite he's wonderful track record and it's no surprise imo he will rejoin clare next year.
Yes he has clare connections strong ones. but imo equally as strong with limerick as fireball made the point but he chooses football rather than limerick hurling,but with clare hurling he chooses.

It was mentioned that the rot set in clare, he left. I don't agree.
He's going back to clare next year.
No rot in clare. Dual players Davy was right to end it and I saw clare train once this year just two weeks ago so far,certainly don't look like a team with problems in the camp.
The camp looked totally behind Davy,great moral in training and last year clare were tired team. No under twenty ones commitment next year for many they will be fresher.
There doing ball work already even and clear targeting the early league games away to Galway and cork and they will be a force next year imo.
There from what I saw and people I talk to no problem in clare camp.

The limerick county board chairman Mann said at convention weekend he thought limerick intermediate and under twenty ones were success despite both loosing ist round games, The under twenty ones being well beaten by nine points yet Mann said limerick done well at this grade this year.

In the Intermediate limerick should won that game both in extra time and normal time and had a lead yet couldn't close out the game and tippeary had a new team from the previous year before, yet still beat limerick, yet Mann said limerick intermediate were fine.
Loosing a game you should won against a second string tipp imo is not sign things were fine.
Problem was not talent imo coaching was.

Yet the irony in board school management imo calling failures success , where with Wallis despite having radically changed under age structure from grass roots up and brought huge success to limerick yet he is ruthlessly dismissed

I see Mann launched severe critism of kiely imo who is good journalist in limerick leader this week , imo one few limerick journalists actually gave fair balanced views thinks.
You may not agree with kiely but to be fair he challenges things and that can only be good in gaa in county , having every single person singing same tune not good imo.

I won't say this could only happen in limerick cause in truth it has happened regularly in cork in both hurling and football in similar scenarios and could happen in cork again.
Same thing was said by cork chairman Sunday in he said cork football had good year at senior and people too critical of cork.
Been hammered worst munster final defeat to kerry missing Gooch, to say that just imo is unbelievable. All we hear is cork had good league when In truth league you went through it game by game far from paradise It's made out to be.

As for the reference here in some managers interested lining their own pockets rather than a geuine interest in county themselves this may be true with others managers but imo certainly not Wallis, he's expenses were marginal compared to others managers to be fair and called out many times publicly for management expense be just that and not paid managers

http://m.hoganstand.com/Home/Details/162480
Managers have rights to valid expenses imo like Wallis in a long drive from midelton to limerick round trip and I'm sure he'll burn some fuel so rightfully so he should like others in similar circumstances get compensated

There are other managers lot in cork and other counties local men,that charge imo over expenses to coach teams but certainly Wallis is hurling to the bone. Not about money but he has a real love of hurling so much went to kerry and then to antrim and also a fact proven in cork hurling when they went went on strike, him and séanie mcgrath trainer not the glen rovers but ucc man trained  the cork hurling panel and didn't claim one expense travelling from midelton to ist of all mallow and then when couldn't train there Mourne abbey.

If that shows doesn't a man that is more hurling than money oriented I geuinely Dont know what will.

Any one knows limerick hurling or will know many long I mean long days and nights Wallis put in to limerick hurling, to just give one example, Saturday morning before the Thursday when they played cork minors this summer jerry was in limerick early in the morning , spent whole day with squad às they had long day of preparation planned for the game five Days later or doing work behind scenes and travelled that evening yes same evening to watch kilkenny play minors that Saturday night as he knew limerick could be playing them as he believed in limerick to go far but also knew kilkenny were strong and he wanted to watch them in the leinster championship

Now by time Wallis got back midelton, it must have must been late you would guess
He's job that day was done with limerick but he always went above and beyond he's role in that job imo and I think many limerick fans, know Wallis deeply cared geuinely about limerick hurling and saw it as long term project and I think he's different to some managers
Wallis record won't be tarnished leaving limerick in the slightest in just another line of guys messed bout by the board is the view

When I heard that story regards that  Saturday I wasn't surprised regards Wallis às I saw it many times with cork he's commitment to the cause
.

Wallis is key o grady fan and good friend and worked with him both in limerick and cork hurling.
Wallis must known Have no doubt what went on last year with o grady but he didn't speak out support him correctly so wasn't he's fight so to speak In he has job do with minors and no way would he jeopardise he's position or limerick minor team chances so close to the minors starting up their season.

That shows how Wallis just goes about he's business in quite efficency manner.
When Wallis speaks out normally has justifiable cause.
He spoke to the leader Friday and correctly so as perception was he walked away.
The mans standing in the game is brilliant reputation is faultless imo.

Wallis will never be short job offers and it's well known many clubs looking for managers or other managers when want advice, guidance relation to good managers to get etc, Wallis is a trusted advisor and figure in the game all over ireland.
Not a man for the money in one leading Galway clubs offered him great deal but declined.

Extremely geuine nice guy, full of charisma and witt,this guy can be ruthless also and wants to win, doesn't belive in second best.
He's ideal balance of character to work with young lads , just watch midelton county under twenty one champions last year win a senior in the future

It's all well and good to say limerick must appointment home coaches but bar Quaid and moran they with respect coaches there dont have many stand out candidates imo

As for the :"limerick way"as it was quoted here with the greatest respect to limerick hurling their way hasn't won them all ireland In under twenty one since 2002 at under twenty one. Three out of the four wins they hold at that level corks dave Keane won three in charge and at minor just have three all irelands ever, and as said here by the limerick fans if one their own in the set up had left others do the Job they could have done would imo won The all ireland minor title this year.
I have always believed this limerick way won't win an all ireland as you must adapt.
No all irelands senior in 1973 limericks way just doesn't add up when you do the maths.

Cork, tipp, kilkenny dominated yes with home grown coaches but fact was not just coaching in lot other counties had no ground work done and cork and tipp and kilkenny imo produced hurling naturally in way more resources so wasn't really just home grown coaches.
Now most counties put huge work in to Underage.

When  offaly made the glorious break through it was kilkenny coach brilliant diarmuid healy won them ist two and then outside coach cregan and then bond in 98 won other two senior all Irelands.

In all four success it was an non offaly man that coached them to senior hurling success.
Offaly needed culture change, they got it with outside man.
Obviously some county don't need outside men like cork. Kilkenny and tipp , some do in Dublin at this time do, ones that do imo you must bring in right outside coaches to be successful and not just high profile names, they must fit the dynamic of the county they join.
Loughanne was brilliant coach but just didn't fit Galway dynamic imo.

Counties with no traditional winning imo better outside coach to break old habits and need coech belive in like liam rush dublin said they wanted outside coach who won at top table as no one dublin had.

Look at one team in irish sport that always always stayed through to their core values. Heart Grit, bravery courage, rise above a challenge as underdog,and forwards win you games has been munster rubgy team "way"where many gaa fans are munster rubgy fans know that

Munster defied odds time and time again and there forwards normally set the platform form to win games.

As the game has crucially evolved and now champions cup even munster who normally done it munster way similar to limerick way,physically dominating teams, teams like powerhouses Claremont know munster way and match them up front they lacked creative play to beat them
Munster way is no longer the way to win trophies for them.
Yes it will keep them competitive always but to win remains A concern going forward.
.

However munster do have solace that loosing close games get some value In group stages in narrow defeats give them bonus point Where no such bonus exists in hurling, in a loss is a loss most of the time.

Munster though get found out against the top teams in knock out stages or even know in group for first time ever loose two back to back games in home and away ties in munster way as Truly admirable as it is unfortunately is simply not good enough any more.

Munster, though credit due will try and adapt their Way, and if they fail it won't be for lack of trying in last two years they did try immense credit and change to an attacking style fair play , problems is they just don't have money compete big boys get the top top backs and they geuinely had go back old style munster in hadn't players play attack minded rubgy
So in a way you can't fault them in they have no choice to go back to munster way for now
Pride and passion is great but you need so much more to win nowadays.
I think if you go through every manager any county even ones who failed like Denis walsh,teddy maccarthy, Brian Ryan minors, corks pat kenneally,  Brian cuthbhert, mike macnammra in clare, darragh o se in kerry under twenty ones,Derek mcgrath no one's ever doubts for a moment there passion and pride, there real real gaa people in love game but so much more required in coaching now,tactical nous hughely prevalent and willingness embrace change of culture hugely important imo.
Some coaches remain stuck in time Imo. The though in this worked for me as a player twenty years ago, it will work now as a coach is wrong.Imo that's not always the case.

Coaching has evolved hughely the last twenty years and I expect in the next five years to change again.
Eammon Ryan cork ladies manager huge passion for gaa won everything in club senior hurling county in cork with na piarsigh and minors all ireland football cork as coach, yet he reinvented himself went done coaching courses in limerick as knew modern game had changed.
He adapted, and those that adapt normally survive like the greatest hurling manager ever in Cody,he always adapts.
Pride and passion to me every manager has it.
Its what else they have.

In hurling limerick imo have a choice, doesn't have to be limerick way as referenced here.
They can go a new way.
They went short passing route league At the start last year and like clare showed it's has teething problems but clare stuck with it and it worked.
Remember The clare game where fans in the league critised Davy hugely for the style when they lost early on.
Lot young guys coming up minors imo,ten them with few from last year in limerick imo Are senior level quality and time is right to develop short game for them starting at under twenty one.
Players are there, but like I feel cork football, it craves a system of play to suit them.
You must have a system so individual talents can flourish that it develops their strengths and minimise weakness.

It was always going to take time to adapt to possession game in limerick.
They never gave it Real time last year imo unlike clare and limerick needed give it more time as completey knew style to some of them imo.

Hugely positive signs  then was limerick v cork down a man in cork league, o grady salvaged a draw with sweeper against all the odds missing key players.

I have always thought imo limerick actually have players suited for a possession game combined with physical intensity they bring and especially with younger lads coming through as with minors played short possession game at times and indeed a sweeper so they can react to different match day scenarios which is crucial to the modern game imo.

When you see bulger clare being reinvented as a player and declan sullivan kerry like wise and traditional kerry football winning all ireland playing a system normally untraditional really shows limerick and many the way forward.

If any county has grounds to stay true old values and say no we must never change out way it's kerry but no the only kerry way you likely see is written in stone so to speak is on sign post in dingle etc.

Kerry way imo is more the winning Way than direct style in this year they changed simply as they had to.

The greatest and most purist football county ever to grace the game, knew time had changed , this team needed horse course selection and system win all ireland ist time in five years, so I'm sure they don't give a moments thought to how won all ireland in they have the all ireland now.

Same with their minors, Jack who o connor who previous stated kerry public wouldn't tolerate system in blanket win a game , he played deeper game beat donegal and In fact senior team did beat donegal also.
Imo most counties is willing to change the style bar limerick hurling.

Problem imo is limerick don't belive they have players for a possession game and any inside coach in limerick imo the majority will play the direct style at intercounty.
Everybody knows limerick style and it's never changed the last few years and how to beat them.
This is geuinely not a dig at limerick but surely many can see it's valid point.
Play clare or kilkenny who knows how they line up.
Cork unfortunately have bit predictability about us also.


To even contemplate beat clare Imo limerick have no choice play sweeper in the summer as clare will definitely play possession game and the sweeper again this year but from what I saw in one training session even working to evolve it again.

Bar some of the schools in take doon who constantly play a sweeper and immense credit They over achieve by playing this system.
They had Ard scoil real trouble harty cup ist half in last year final but Ard scoil played a sweeper and won it handy then
Niall moran immense credit due with other Ard scoil coaches those play a sweeper at times when need must
Moran I didn't rate as a great player tbh but I seen him coach he has got it imo, and huge huge potential and much better coache than Ollie who coached in tipp this year
TJ made poor call imo have him as player last year recall based on challenge match in Dundrum v poor waterford but imo should be on panel but in coaching sense.

He's terrific coach with lots of potential And from I saw and what I hear is ruthless to make hard calls, just what you need.
Niall was ruthless, in he made the correct call to drop ronan lynch back from forwards after Thurles defeat it worked.

Limerick had One other option to replace Wallis,imo could been the best til last in Buttevant native declan Fitzgerald who teaches castetroy, lives in tippeary, with drom inch senior again this year tippeary, with ul freshers knows limerick hurling well In just twenty five or so coach limerick minors got all ireland minor final in 2005,A good but not great limerick team compared to this year's he's coaching was paramount to their run to the final.
Widely respected among players.

Then he had twenty ones in 2007, he's top top coach so much so ger cunningham cork ger has been working with him cork development squads.
He knows limerick hurling inside out and the school system well and imo as temporary coach would been better to fill the gap now til the year ends as he's real real coach, just watch ul freshers train
He's working top class all star ul team with twenty eight all having some intercounty expierence at one level or so from development up.

Guys like tom morrisey, Dylan Dawson, Alan Murphy kilkenny, Leigh bergin Laois. Trevor horgan cork etc so he can coach top top players and gained their respect
Imagine Murphy kilkenny top scorer minor championship last year, he's knows good coaching.
Fitzgerald obivously must be good if I hear ul boys rate him highely.

He Could done Job til June and then get some one knew next year Even if they couldn't get him for good.
If you bring in daly imo being better start of a year than mid term.

Fitzgerald style similar to Wallis and limerick would not have had much change so no transition period needed for the panel

He's terrific working on basic skill player like improve techniques hooking, blocking, creating match day scenarios, making players think fast and react to different plays and he's training is always based on huge intensity etc

Would won a dean Ryan and harty cup under cork coach Denis ring at colmans and he knows rings coaching so hed been ideal to counter ring as he knows he's direct opponent inside out similar to Wallis.
Limerick will miss this against cork imo.

Ring the master beat the student learning he's trade in 2005 when cork beat limerick in munster, Fitzgerald has nine years more in coaching now.

Being a teacher he's good presentation, communication and organisations and time keeping skills for director but has real real coaching skills.

He's worked with Gary kirby, eoin brislane the new Ballybrown coach , Ger cunningham both cork and limerick Brian lohan etc
Both cork ger cunningham rates him and limerick ger cunningham also two shrewd men.
When you see who ger cunningham brought in Laois next year,Waterford man be announced soon I expect, top top move shows how good ger cunningham limerick is.

Its not likes Fitzgerald coming from outside county either in yes a cork man but teaches castetroy and coached limerick teams the last nine years, so he's well known and been centrally involved In limerick team in one form or another the Last nine years.
A cork man yes but like limerick citizen so to speak.

Obviously he's with drom inch so probably ruled him out and he's with cork development also this year so who knows maybe he was asked  but imo I'd be trying hard get him over daly.
I'd agree with poster that it's a Hollywood appointment with daly.

Wallis rates Fitzgerald hugely and rumour was he would tried get him involved in a development set up sooner than later.
Highly unlikely Fitzgerald will get any big job in cork so if limerick imo offered him top job would be hard to turn down
Not just as minor coach but director hurling he'd be ideal over coaching from under fourteen up, worked with minors, intercounty, and development squads, ul freshers and fitzginbon cup team and harty cup castetroy and coached killruene macdonagh tipp I think but senior club drom inch now in the second year.
Drom inch hugely impressed with him.

He's expierence is vastly and he's young coach.
Drom inch were poor when took them over but improved them hughely in year one.
He also worked with limerick games manager noel hartigan in noel was he's selector in 2007 at under twenty one so there's good communication between both.
Noel hartigan imo very good games manager and I said before imo best in munster, better than cork imo, probably closest to him is ex newton player and manager john linehan who imo does great work development kerry under age hurling.
Limerick have some Great hurling people but need right men in right areas.

Other real question Is will daly stay long
If Davy leaves clare in two years then daly likely to go back them he said he love manage them again
Fitzgerald Could of been a keeper if he got role In could still work with ul teams

Personally I'm glad Fitzgerald isn't the man involved as I'd prefer see him in cork but he was an ideal candidate for limerick and if guys like that aren't in cork I'd love see him make it elsewhere.

Limerick under twenty ones This year will play a mixture of style imo as jimmy quilty is open to styles and the minors will embrace it as there used different styles from minors and Corbett is big in to new innovative ways and imo I could be wrong but I think he'll have a bigger role then just a strength and conditions coach in the set up
Once the powers to be let them at it.

That limerick under twenty one team will be imo all ireland champions next year.
Easier win this grade in most you have four games and no disrespect to antrim but munster play them next year,imo win munster in all ireland you avoid banna skin Galway in a semi final.
Will limerick county board not self destruct is The key question???

Limerick intermediate won't change style this year and I think tom Ryan still with them as a selector not fully sure on that.

But their style is too direct old school imo.
Intermediate hurling is changing also in, cork only cork team to do it from cork successfully, yes under twenty ones tried a sweeper but it was poorly manufactured , played sweeper at times and won all ireland intermediate this year but stayed with direct old school cork hurling would not won
Even at intermediate The game has changed.

I have seen countless games from dean Ryan Harty cupChallenges etc, junior b, etc, the sweeper is now hughely prevalent in hurling at any level , bar kilkenny who obviously have players win most fifty fifty battles but even against dublin this year they played a deeper system to counter dublin.
Cork hurling has the same problem in jbm recluant to go possesion game.
Any team wins now imo must be comfortable in playing two ways.

Speaking of the minors, limerick minor hurling beat nenagh cbs Sunday in a challenge, Davy hannon got two goals where conor Byrnes was outstanding as centre back.
Kyle Dillon the highely rated forward played centre forward And Brian Ryan played well at right half forward but limerick were made work hard for it and nenagh gave them good battle but as always goals decide games even in challenge matches.

Na piarssigh or ahane lads or flanganan was absent as was paddy o loughin and lot under seventeenth played but at the same time nenagh missed two key key players also.
First game without Wallis they done well but from here on til April huge challenge them
I said in the cork thread many times I feared cork beating limerick twice this year, and initially I said the draw was Awful from a cork view

The landscape has changed considerably the last week in Wallis loss imo I think cork have huge chance beating limerick and twice if needs be , but limerick could if beaten cork in ist game struggle imo to beat likely to be waterford In knock out game

Cork have also added pat hartnett the last week as proven coach. He's superb addition as a selector and extremely tactical minded,keen student of the game, so limerick imo have lost huge presence on the line, And while cork lost landers, hartnett limits that loss greatly especially with o dwyer coaching cork so no great change style
Cork style play be the same but hartnett has wonderful gift spot hurling talent as raw potential and develop it to a complete hurler.
Can do real coaching but good read to a game in flow also.

Limerick on the other hand had continuity from last few years with Wallis but that's lost now and even if daly succeeds it's imo going to take him time to settle in the role and it's just four months to the ist game, huge huge ask now.
Cork minors under ring had always targeted year two as one likely to be break through
With the dean Ryan cup success, so far The harty , the munster senior b old christian doing well in cork two minors on the team , cork winning three out of four under sixteen b competition with crescent limerick winning the other, cork hurling is on a high

Crucially ag beat doon Could beaten castetroy, and colmans young team ist year under noel crowley pushing castetroy all the way the gap has closed considerably in last year limerick teams were beating cork teams regularly and in some cases easy.
I remember last year saying many times limerick minors were invincible practically when cork played them in the lead up, next year that aura imo has gone In cork will respect them but no need to fear them às much as last year.

Obviously the real test for cork schools is when they meet the exceptional Ard scoil to see how much cork schools closed the gap.
Draw has two cork limerick clashes, Ard scoil will be huge ask for hammies and youghal have chance v Castletroy
Key will be imo if Rochestown play Ard scoil in best cork chance beating Ard scoil in have great coaches like Ard scoil have with moran.
As for cregan fair point not everyone cup tea but he's good skill side in he's role minors was coaching forwards free taking and be fair he's good.
Cregan certainly was not the poorest manager in the set up.

Cork have An array forward talent this year it's just unreal best in my opinion the last five years so it will be hard to stop them.

Tippeary be favourites now imo in minor and have easy side of the draw but  I think it will be cork and tipp munster minor final.

Clare coaching wise are not meant to be great.
Waterford have good coach but tipp imo have players and management set up to do well and one of the best centre back in munster in Brian mcgrath.

I think limerick have daly now so they must support him yes and they could certainly have worse but they should seriously review after The year  if results are dropping as you have be ruthless to get new management etc as it be shame to see all progress made by Wallis And some others the last four years suddenly be lost and as cork know it's very very easy to loose progress.

One thing I do agree with Mann is he's view almagating harty cup teams must go on and they have battle with munster to keep it, and imo almagating school like west college's limerick is good for the game as Flanagan proved there's fine hurlers in West limerick.

The huge win by Mann in the election is   like bob Ryan cork walking in votes to central council, it's imo unbelievable imo how both chairmans of their counties with hardly records without controversy in management appointment and as seen by both wanting have attuide do not question anything in manns comments on kiely and Ryan ignoring of cusack comments in simply won't democraticlly debate them get any roles they want time after time in both men won votes by a landslide at both county conventions the weekend.

North Cork Star

CIT played Mary I yesterday in Buttevant in a Senior Hurling challenge match. I was a draw 0-17 to 1-14, Declan Hannon with a cracker of a goal to level it in the end for Mary I.
Good for CIT was Tom Lawrance, Buckley from Na Piarsiagh, William Murphy Meelin, John Cronin. Jamie Coughlan looked sharp when he came on, Aidan Walsh looked really bulky, maybe a bit slower than usual, Bill Cooper tried hard throughout, got a few points.
The Cork lads from Mary I, Colm Barry and Mikey Browne Ballyhea in goals, both did well.

seventh7

No Doubt. Gunning is unplayable at the moment and will be very difficult to hold. It is no big deal losing to a college side. Its the manner of the loss that would worry me. Take off Gunning and Cork look toothless.
The AG played a reserve side in all fairness and they did improve from the Rochestown game. They were very poor against Rochestown and tactically naive. no disrespect to Rochestown they were better on the day. They AG may have learned a lot from the Cork game and perhaps its Shorten and Co who need to take lessons from their sides preformance. The Harty will tell a lot about the state of the Cork underage hurling.

thinkstoomuch1

North Cork Star wrote: »

CIT played Mary I yesterday in Buttevant in a Senior Hurling challenge match. I was a draw 0-17 to 1-14, Declan Hannon with a cracker of a goal to level it in the end for Mary I.
Good for CIT was Tom Lawrance, Buckley from Na Piarsiagh, William Murphy Meelin, John Cronin. Jamie Coughlan looked sharp when he came on, Aidan Walsh looked really bulky, maybe a bit slower than usual, Bill Cooper tried hard throughout, got a few points.
The Cork lads from Mary I, Colm Barry and Mikey Browne Ballyhea in goals, both did well.

John cronin should get cork call up very good for cork intermediate and has better game temperament and attuide than lawton work rate wise and far more mobile than cian mac

Is erratic in shooting but good coaches developed that and superb ball winner and grafter


Should be with shane o keoffe on cork panel with lordan who I's as potential cork half forward ball winner

Now that pa callaghan won't play for cork it seems they should be added
Colm Barry is on cork panel, tremendous prospects will improve under pat mulchay no end

thinkstoomuch1

seventh7 wrote: »

No Doubt. Gunning is unplayable at the moment and will be very difficult to hold. It is no big deal losing to a college side. Its the manner of the loss that would worry me. Take off Gunning and Cork look toothless.
The AG played a reserve side in all fairness and they did improve from the Rochestown game. They were very poor against Rochestown and tactically naive. no disrespect to Rochestown they were better on the day. They AG may have learned a lot from the Cork game and perhaps its Shorten and Co who need to take lessons from their sides preformance. The Harty will tell a lot about the state of the Cork underage hurling.

It's totally unfair to say cork are toothless without gunning, I'm sorry now but Dan gunning is not the be end of all cork minors team in one man never won a newton game hurling

Totally unfair to disregard talents looney, Kingston , o mahony, griffin, smith, o leary who dine all asked them in harty

Gunning is sensational but if he's held cork other five forwards will do damage
Halloran is awesome as is Kingston and o mahony

Manner loss seventh was three goal gunning simple as

Ag you could argue look more toothless without gunning but that be wrong to say

Strongly strongly disagree cork look toothless without gunning
Cork team is not built around him and if it was built around one man then serious serious concerns

Denis ring yes build leaders etc but none not one single team he's club school or cork before built around one man

seventh7

Just to clarify, on the day they were ineffective.
I agree with you that Gunning is not the all be all of minor hurling in Cork but he is an exceptional talent. He has heart and hurling a great combination.
I would not disregard any Cork forward line as we always produce super mobile forwards. What I will say is that against a school backline with two 15 year olds one who is goal keeper they did not look a huge threat on the day. They are off course entitled to an off day and lets hope the don't have an off day against Limerick, I agree kingston is a fine hurler and he looked Jaded on the day.
The AG do lack firepower without Gunning but lets not forget Sheehan and Aherne made the Cork back line look very ordinary on the day.
Its Good that you strongly disagree with opinions because it stimulates debate and promotes the game.

thinkstoomuch1

Lowney and toomey in my opinion are just worlds apart as hurlers.
Twomey can hurl both sides equally, is faster but way better reading of the game than Lowney
Lowney I's good but doesn't compare to Twomey is a top top centre back level above lowney
Lowney terrific footballers terrific attitude for the game



As for lot under seventeen on a team means not good sign or minors team imo that's just nonsense, In my opinion
Limerick minors dismissed that myth in 2013 with at least seven or eight under seventeen starting from 2012 all ireland under sixteen winning team in nenagh winning munster title and bar hawk eye dissaster would been I'n all ireland final

It helps yes expierence but doesn't mean it's bad team lot under seventeen
I can list many other examples also

Was cork senior 99 hurling team poor when had loads under twenty ones, no it wasn't or like 1966 with six under twenty ones or clare all ireland winners with loads lads younger than senior


It depends on players and once you have expierence I'm central spine like full back, centre back, mid field, centre forward and full you can have seventheen year old once their good enough