Cork GAA Discussion Thread

Prop Joe

If anyone can help me out on some club info

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...p?t=2057357984

zetecescort

Prop Joe wrote: »

If anyone can help me out on some club info

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...p?t=2057357984

This will get you started anyway, draws for this years senior, premier intermediate and intermediate championships

http://www.gaacork.ie/news/347406/County_Senior_Intermediate_Championship_Draws_2015

N20

commonsense. wrote: »

Have to agree with you. Every team looking for inches to give them an edge but some of this stuff is away with the fairies. Non-dominant eye training???? Jaysus they'll be adding Specsavers to the Dublin backroom team next.

Interesting comments by Anthony Daly today referring to Managers getting carried away by 'Gimmicks' - now only sound bites in article I saw and a certain slant can always be put on comments but interesting given he's recently left the Dublin set up and interesting in respect of aforementioned piece in Examiner

He mentioned a 90/10 split, pure hurling v S&C/diet/ psychology - or at least that was my interpretation of it - I was surprised at how far he leaned to the 'traditional' view

Somewhere in middle ground presumably would be a better balance ?

thinkstoomuch1

N20 wrote: »

Interesting comments by Anthony Daly today referring to Managers getting carried away by 'Gimmicks' - now only sound bites in article I saw and a certain slant can always be put on comments but interesting given he's recently left the Dublin set up and interesting in respect of aforementioned piece in Examiner

He mentioned a 90/10 split, pure hurling v S&C/diet/ psychology - or at least that was my interpretation of it - I was surprised at how far he leaned to the 'traditional' view

Somewhere in middle ground presumably would be a better balance ?

Good manager but can you please explain to me what has he actually he won bar a leinster title and league medal
Nothing really


So I automatically tend favours logic over myth
The logic I'll enlighten you is as follows


Now ed coughlan has actually got mayo two all ireland final numerous connaught titles
Now cian o neill another scientific coach has got tipp all ireland and kerry numerous other credit to he's name
Jim mcguinness another science fanatic all ireland success

Davy Fitzgerald all ireland and fitzgibbon cup s lit and out of date waterford all ireland final


James Mccarthy hugely in to scientific ways got haven county titl win

Paudie kissane who study science in physical education watch this space top coach and will be with top intercounty team within three years I heard on good authority you heard it hear first

Jerry Wallis hugely scientific and Brough in nutrition and hydration and speed and agility and recovery practical revolutionidee limerick under age hurling

Niall moran who was one first I'd guess Brough early morning training and post match annalise team talk with video analyst and nutrition and ice baths to school hurling With Ard scoil

Frank flannery brought science to Millford all ireland camoige champions

Declan wall hugely in to scientific ways brought good counsel all ireland under sixteen hurling title

Ucc who brought annalise in video and nutrition to a high level won fitzgoibbion cup and sigerson


Donal o grady used a sport psychologist corl won all ireland as well as Wallis and mcgrath prove their ways work

Cork camoige before under Paudie Murray brought in Caroline currid and helped them enormously

Is that enough example for you

Daly r talking utter nonsense with respect


You see he was good manager in other ways but never bought in to modern ways maybe that's why he was good but never great


You can trust my astute judgement limerick academy will go backwards under him at best stay same

Limerick old school disciples will absolutely give him freedom of limerick imo for preaching old school ways

What a load nonsense he spoke

Paul kinnerks top example

Donie Buckley one greatest modern day football coaching around hugely scientific

Jack o connor brought in flangnan

Morgan was in to scientific way and introduce warm weather camps and strength conditions at times it was alien to most

I could open thread this

Daly simply doesn't understand or simply want to understand new ways

Smith614

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Good manager but can you please explain to me what has he actually he won bar a leinster title and league medal
Nothing really


So I automatically tend favours logic over myth
The logic I'll enlighten you is as follows


Now ed coughlan has actually got mayo two all ireland final numerous connaught titles
Now cian o neill another scientific coach has got tipp all ireland and kerry numerous other credit to he's name
Jim mcguinness another science fanatic all ireland success

Davy Fitzgerald all ireland and fitzgibbon cup s lit and out of date waterford all ireland final


James Mccarthy hugely in to scientific ways got haven county titl win

Paudie kissane who study science in physical education watch this space top coach and will be with top intercounty team within three years I heard on good authority you heard it hear first

Jerry Wallis hugely scientific and Brough in nutrition and hydration and speed and agility and recovery practical revolutionidee limerick under age hurling

Niall moran who was one first I'd guess Brough early morning training and post match annalise team talk with video analyst and nutrition and ice baths to school hurling With Ard scoil

Frank flannery brought science to Millford all ireland camoige champions

Declan wall hugely in to scientific ways brought good counsel all ireland under sixteen hurling title

Ucc who brought annalise in video and nutrition to a high level won fitzgoibbion cup and sigerson


Donal o grady used a sport psychologist corl won all ireland as well as Wallis and mcgrath prove their ways work

Cork camoige before under Paudie Murray brought in Caroline currid and helped them enormously

Is that enough example for you

Daly r talking utter nonsense with respect


You see he was good manager in other ways but never bought in to modern ways maybe that's why he was good but never great


You can trust my astute judgement limerick academy will go backwards under him at best stay same

Limerick old school disciples will absolutely give him freedom of limerick imo for preaching old school ways

What a load nonsense he spoke

Paul kinnerks top example

Donie Buckley one greatest modern day football coaching around hugely scientific

Jack o connor brought in flangnan

Morgan was in to scientific way and introduce warm weather camps and strength conditions at times it was alien to most

I could open thread this

Daly simply doesn't understand or simply want to understand new ways

Everybody differs on these topics but I must say the Ed Coughlan interview was without doubt the biggest load of bollo* I read in a long time. We can quote all the successes with science and then we can mention KK.

N20

Smith614 wrote: »

Everybody differs on these topics but I must say the Ed Coughlan interview was without doubt the biggest load of bollo* I read in a long time. We can quote all the successes with science and then we can mention KK.

Yeah I can envisage Brian Cody incorporating peripheral eye training in his warm up alright

The point I think in general is there is no doubt there is benefit from a scientific approach - the normal stuff - but I thought Yerman was talking it to a ridiculous level - by same token I'm sure Daly comments were tongue in cheek or at best taken out of context (that can happen)

thinkstoomuch1

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/hurling/2014/0609/622664-cody-a-master-of-motivation/

http://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/kilkennys-adopted-son-dempsey-plotting-further-glory-for-cats-30560656.html

http://www.peakfitness.ie/modern-physical-training-is-not-so-modern-after-all/



http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/michael-dempsey-proves-an-important-cog-in-cody-s-winning-machine-1.1916892


http://www.gaa.ie/gaa-news-and-videos/daily-news/1/2507131144-student-of-the-game-an-interview-with-michael-fennelly/


I can go on and on, and I can go all night long regards science in sport I'm only getting started I'f I need to prove more
Yes old traditional values are essence game, robotic hurling won't do but you have hurlers embraced with science today to stay up with their opponents as game evolved huge level


This is a myth absolutely myth and those belive Kilkenney just turn up win fifty fifty battles beat your opponent with out any scientific preparation or science or new ways are with respect so so gullible they would swallow an anchor and belive any old rubbish if they believe that nonsense when clear clear evidence proves other wise


Yea as seen some articles kilkenny pay huge amount fundamental of the game and imo they are bread and butter of the game and crucial but it's fifty fifty in you have be fit, fast tactical astute and up with new innovative ways or pure hurling won't win, in you must match your opponent at every other level of strength so then your aera strength in hurling can overcome their weakness



I have seen Kilkenney train many times with my own eyes and I eat raw raw carrot I'm like a rabbit I eat them hugely and my eyes are like a cat I can see what stands before me

I saw Kilkenney many times last seven years and their training is in to scientific ways modern drills
What marks then apart is their attuide is above everyone else and they never drop below hundred per cent so without out science waste time but attuide alone useless with out modern ways


Kilkenney Cody preached don't do tactics
Lads with respect wake up and smell the coffee
Look at dublin this year. Corl in 2006, second half v limerick way tactical nous prevailed of course they play it down Kilkenney are shrewd.
They training in carlow simply as modern scientific colleagues for sport and I know for a fact Kilkenney place huge emphasis on science in the game


As for coughlan I gave a post last week proved dominant eye training I'd prevalent in the game and have given many examples
If people want to debate point I raises feel free to do so, but no one has actually counter debated it with logic and reason and rather take with respect the lazy approach just dismiss it as waffle.
I can't name the player as it wound give opponent huge advantage but I know one inter county under age hurlers getting one dominant training as he needs it other wise he won't play
Not all hurlers do need it but some do


I knew kilkenny would be used as example as knew many are easily fooled by myth they just hurl so I actually left it out my first post as like a good poker player you always hold ace spades for your last hand, and never show your full hand at first

Kilkenney have always had physically strength conditions coach etc nutritional speed coaches just played down by them

CORKDOUBLE

It looks like the weather for Wednesday is very bad ....a shame for the Harty Cup games if it happens.

thinkstoomuch1

Also look at St kieran Kilkenney croke cup winners well know physical qualified teacher and experience and expertise in strength conditions with them and he has he own business in that work with them ger flood

That'd just a school team kilkenny aren't eating a special type of kilkenny corn flake or special type kilkenny porridge or anything special in their water that's akin to the rest of the country that there hurlers are born naturally strong
They got to do the work and put the science in to it like every other county


They got to and use science too just like kerry have and mtichestowb cork Lad with limerick under twenty one hurling was with kerry minor football before years ago


Youghal man o leary doing brilliant work cork minors hurling

Limerick minors hurling has top quality strength conditions coach last year and was head hunted few senior teams


I do agree like one article I posted said it's gone to level that in club game normal game puts coaches off joining set up and some clubs can't afford one but unfortunately most counties do it so clubs have little choice really but I feel for them


Newton are luck in manager ed daly ex munster rubgy is actually qualified strength conditions coach etc

Corl football won' all ireland has brilliant Aidan o connell munster rubgy with them and would not won in game style they played they needed top top coach in that side of the game

thinkstoomuch1

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/hurling/hennessy-says-cork-badly-need-battlers-306228.html


This is brilliant form a brilliant brilliant hurler and a man that has had I'll health in the past but tremendous courage and bravery thank full he came out the other side

What a player now here was a hurler but a warrior within
Remember goal Thurles at angles that was imo obsolete but he threaded a bullet like threading a needle such accuracy that ken hogan hadn't a chance save it


This is great by hennesy and he spoke some real truths here and that's what I'm on bout honesty within to realise value and essence blood and bandage values it holds dearly and what cork must do and he's right regards some our forward play


He's calling a spade a spade

People here after Saturday game way too gracious in assessment cork players imo
In line with hennesy people should ask how many them are battlers and would do in a battle????

I don't agree huge set back in I believe tactical melt down and once management do Jim gavin admit there fault then players won't self doubt and I belive jbm has no ego do such thing and jbm is humble enough to do it imo



Now ex football greats need to learn from hennesy honesty and leads way and start saying some harsh truths football team needs to hear

thinkstoomuch1

Speaking of kilkenny

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/hurling/science-of-silence-194499.html

Cork would do well if they learned from it
See the way no kilkenny player certain position and one player who develop an arrogance was played out of position
That was that
He learned
That's what I'm saying if patrick horgan played for Kilkenney he would be or have been dropped
In a way you can't blame horgan as culture mindset he has of been automatically started imo management are to blame by not drop him for one game.

commonsense.

N20 wrote:

Interesting comments by Anthony Daly today referring to Managers getting carried away by 'Gimmicks' - now only sound bites in article I saw and a certain slant can always be put on comments but interesting given he's recently left the Dublin set up and interesting in respect of aforementioned piece in Examiner

He mentioned a 90/10 split, pure hurling v S&C/diet/ psychology - or at least that was my interpretation of it - I was surprised at how far he leaned to the 'traditional' view[/quote]


Somewhere in middle ground presumably would be a better balance ?[/quote]


I'm with Dalo on this one. Hurling is a simple game. First to the ball/possession is 10/10ths of the law etc etc etc. Of course s + c/diet/stats have their part to play and Dalo understands that better than most. He is a progressive and open minded thinker on hurling who surrounds himself with like minded individuals (anybody who has spent time in Richie Stakelum's company couldn't but be impressed in his views on hurling today). Lets not over complicate our great game with bulls%*te I say.

thinkstoomuch1

commonsense. wrote: »

He mentioned a 90/10 split, pure hurling v S&C/diet/ psychology - or at least that was my interpretation of it - I was surprised at how far he leaned to the 'traditional' view

Somewhere in middle ground presumably would be a better balance ?[/quote]


I'm with Dalo on this one. Hurling is a simple game. First to the ball/possession is 10/10ths of the law etc etc etc. Of course s + c/diet/stats have their part to play and Dalo understands that better than most. He is a progressive and open minded thinker on hurling who surrounds himself with like minded individuals (anybody who has spent time in Richie Stakelum's company couldn't but be impressed in his views on hurling today). Lets not over complicate our great game with bulls%*te I say.[/quote]

Can you explain so why Cody jack o connor, fitzmaurice, o grady, mcguinness etc all proven and many more are successful

You are right in thought thoughthat you have, in a lot of bullshi##e being spoken on the subject imo

commonsense.

CORKDOUBLE wrote:

It looks like the weather for Wednesday is very bad ....a shame for the Harty Cup games if it happens.

Yeah, shocking forecast. Games could be in doubt I'd say. If they all go ahead I hope the wind isn't too strong and gusty. I never minded playing in the rain myself but always hated wind.

thinkstoomuch1

commonsense. wrote: »

He mentioned a 90/10 split, pure hurling v S&C/diet/ psychology - or at least that was my interpretation of it - I was surprised at how far he leaned to the 'traditional' view

Somewhere in middle ground presumably would be a better balance ?[/quote]


I'm with Dalo on this one. Hurling is a simple game. First to the ball/possession is 10/10ths of the law etc etc etc. Of course s + c/diet/stats have their part to play and Dalo understands that better than most. He is a progressive and open minded thinker on hurling who surrounds himself with like minded individuals (anybody who has spent time in Richie Stakelum's company couldn't but be impressed in his views on hurling today). Lets not over complicate our great game with bulls%*te I say.[/quote]

What has daly done above all ireland winners to prove he's right and their wrong

Daly never won all ireland as manager

Ironic also and hyorrcitcsl imo of daly when he in fact won two all ireland when clare were fittest team in ireland and Brough physical conditions new level
Wasn't just out hurling their opponents
Lot nonsense being spoken imo here being spoken by some who clearly have no idea what there actually talking about with respect

Twiceasnice97

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Speaking of kilkenny

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/hurling/science-of-silence-194499.html

Cork would do well if they learned from it
See the way no kilkenny player certain position and one player who develop an arrogance was played out of position
That was that
He learned
That's what I'm saying if patrick horgan played for Kilkenney he would be or have been dropped
In a way you can't blame horgan as culture mindset he has of been automatically started imo management are to blame by not drop him for one game.

Classic cute hoor nonsense. the stuff the cap pulled down over the head in super value and the lads pulling womren with hurleys
hilarious utterly joyless article

thinkstoomuch1

Twiceasnice97 wrote: »

Classic cute hoor nonsense. the stuff the cap pulled down over the head in super value and the lads pulling womren with hurleys
hilarious utterly joyless article

Lot good points in it though regards media duties and players having perform every game
I agree your other points though

thinkstoomuch1

http://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/nothing-left-to-chance-as-dublin-shape-up-for-summer-29297297.html


They all surely can't be wrong
Dublin all ireland champions
Look at physical conditions of likes Paul flynn and brogan etc

As can be seen here daly in fact used one same one as gavin used
Dublin certainly benefits from it as hurling physically was notorious as up their best around

Where dublin failed was on tactical side by daly at times
Daly just talking pile nonsense imo
He's talking about diet just been small part game.
He's wrong in if players doing excessive work load and carbs protein ratio and adequate rehydration is not sufficient and then like wise speed or agility is off its opponent all hurling training is worth a dime if he's out on feet with twenty five minutes to go


Also for years people in cork cribbed that lads were blown of the ball physically three years ago at senior so it's paramount imo I would think cork should understand the need for science more than most as hurling is produced naturally in cork and was never really a problem imo but cork at development squads and senior were behind others in strength conditions wise and tactical wise as well
When cork played teams went against teams play orthodox hurling they normally win
Dublin daly preached is about beating you're opponent fifty fifty ball imo he actually forget the cork dublin game 2013 and should rewatch it dublin actually tried beat cork orthodox hurling and a cork team in transition years behind dublin and with a bare panel and without sullivan and other key players still beat dublin and would have even bar the sending off imo
Dublin should of in that game played a system suit there talents available but rather play to their physically strength played a fast game that
Flowed that suited cork imo
Dublin had the hurling but simply you don't try and beat cork in game of a hurling who are that yard faster in hurling striking etc.
They played to cork strengths and they perished on that rock imo



Clare when they bullied cork physically and tactical wise imo dominated cork in both all ireland finals.
Forget about the draw clare were miles miles better the drawn game





Let's hope in cork he does away with in he's words the gimmick as he called them in strength conditions coach etc and limerick minors If he does will be beaten before a ball is pucked v cork minors
Daly used one himself one of the best around so if he understands it better than most as it put why is giving about it then

He's on bout how dublin over compensated physically than hurling wise, that's not strength conditions coach problem,hurling coach should done hurling also in fairness plenty time year do both
Daly blaming one aspect of the game imo for he's own failings as a coach and if he's so on bout hurling winning the day he actually needs to up skills he's tactical nous imo which huge part of the game that he has at times clearly been shown in certain games to actually be poor enough
Interesting to see how he does with limerick minors in the season ahead.



Imo those against science in sport are the ones that don't really understand it
Science is here to stay in the game and hurling is better for it as old days you had just hurling but now days imo you actually have accomplished athletes in every sense that are hurlers also and that can only be great for our greatest game going forward

You can't be first to a fifty fifty ball if you not fast enough but your opponent is all because your opponent is doing speed work and fartlek training for example.
The game thankfully has moved on with the times.
This is 2015 not 1960.

rebelden

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I have seen Kilkenney train many times with my own eyes and I eat raw raw carrot I'm like a rabbit I eat them hugely and my eyes are like a cat I can see what stands before me

Your are a gas man TTM. I enjoy skim reading your long posts no ending. Your must buy and read the world of newspapers. As for peripheral eye training and
Ed Coughlan keep eating the carrots, you will be able to read all them papers in the dark one of these days. Jesus TTM your head is so far up your own whole its a wonder you can see in front of you. As you might say top posting. Ps please consider changing your username to writetoomuch.

thinkstoomuch1

rebelden wrote: »

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I have seen Kilkenney train many times with my own eyes and I eat raw raw carrot I'm like a rabbit I eat them hugely and my eyes are like a cat I can see what stands before me

Your are a gas man TTM. I enjoy skim reading your long posts no ending. Your must buy and read the world of newspapers. As for peripheral eye training and
Ed Coughlan keep eating the carrots, you will be able to read all them papers in the dark one of these days. Jesus TTM your head is so far up your own whole its a wonder you can see in front of you. As you might say top posting. Ps please consider changing your username to writetoomuch.

Thank a lot your input means the world to me.

commonsense.

I'm with Dalo on this one. Hurling is a simple game. First to the ball/possession is 10/10ths of the law etc etc etc. Of course s + c/diet/stats have their part to play and Dalo understands that better than most. He is a progressive and open minded thinker on hurling who surrounds himself with like minded individuals (anybody who has spent time in Richie Stakelum's company couldn't but be impressed in his views on hurling today). Lets not over complicate our great game with bulls%*te I say.[/QUOTE]


While I'm on the subject of Dalo, I'd encourage everyone to get his book - a great read.

Innish_Rebel

commonsense. wrote: »

Yeah, shocking forecast. Games could be in doubt I'd say. If they all go ahead I hope the wind isn't too strong and gusty. I never minded playing in the rain myself but always hated wind.

Yeah I will say for sure I've never seen a game played in such bad conditions as the Hammies v Ard S Ris last year, the wind was unbelievable, to be honest for a Harty semi final it probably shouldn't have been played, don't think it would have changed the result. Looks like they're going to have to play in a storm again as from that day it showed the pitch in Mallow can take a lot of rain.

N20

Just to clarify my position as there seems to be a bit of misinterpretation - deliberate or otherwise

I have no issue with a scientific approach to sport and undoubtedly it has advanced the game, improved player health, strength and performance

it the extremes, the makey up stuff, the over analysis that bugs me.

I was never a big fan of clipboard man but I accept stats have a place

it's when it takes over it gets ridiculous, and that's the point I think Anthony Daly was making. I wouldn't be in favour of analysts and medics running teams

it should primarily be all about the hurling - I don't think you can manufacture a hurler

Hurleratheart

Innish_Rebel wrote: »

Yeah I will say for sure I've never seen a game played in such bad conditions as the Hammies v Ard S Ris last year, the wind was unbelievable, to be honest for a Harty semi final it probably shouldn't have been played, don't think it would have changed the result. Looks like they're going to have to play in a storm again as from that day it showed the pitch in Mallow can take a lot of rain.

If I remember fight the Rochestown College / Doon game called off last minute sameday

weather will be leveller alright

Mallow will take a fair share of rain but caher and charleville very heavy ground

Figsy32

Hurleratheart wrote: »

If I remember fight the Rochestown College / Doon game called off last minute sameday

weather will be leveller alright

Mallow will take a fair share of rain but caher and charleville very heavy ground

Yeah it was called off just as everyone was arriving at the pitch.

thinkstoomuch1

N20 wrote: »

Just to clarify my position as there seems to be a bit of misinterpretation - deliberate or otherwise

I have no issue with a scientific approach to sport and undoubtedly it has advanced the game, improved player health, strength and performance

it the extremes, the makey up stuff, the over analysis that bugs me.

I was never a big fan of clipboard man but I accept stats have a place

it's when it takes over it gets ridiculous, and that's the point I think Anthony Daly was making. I wouldn't be in favour of analysts and medics running teams

it should primarily be all about the hurling - I don't think you can manufacture a hurler

Good to see you changed your attuide, fair play, quite understandable with logic clearly showing nonsense was being spoken just my opinion of course

thinkstoomuch1

The rain is never a problem or will be in Mallow as drainage is truly awesome nor will frost really be problem

Mallow hosted munster club final years ago last minute nemo v Dr crokes when gaelic grounds couldn't cope rain
No other ptich ireland could have either


Problem in Mallow has been the wind as elevation and openness of the ptich Is imo the problem in North East side ptich even in mild wind causes huge wind blow north side of the ptich so team playing towards school end has huge advantage

thinkstoomuch1

Hurleratheart wrote: »

If I remember fight the Rochestown College / Doon game called off last minute sameday

weather will be leveller alright

Mallow will take a fair share of rain but caher and charleville very heavy ground

Will game go ahead in cahir do you think with the rain

Cu Baire

N20 wrote: »

Just to clarify my position as there seems to be a bit of misinterpretation - deliberate or otherwise

I have no issue with a scientific approach to sport and undoubtedly it has advanced the game, improved player health, strength and performance

it the extremes, the makey up stuff, the over analysis that bugs me.

I was never a big fan of clipboard man but I accept stats have a place

it's when it takes over it gets ridiculous, and that's the point I think Anthony Daly was making. I wouldn't be in favour of analysts and medics running teams

it should primarily be all about the hurling - I don't think you can manufacture a hurler

Your original comments were quite clear N20 and you were particularly clear about finding a balance.
Your mistake was partially agreeing with Anthony Daly who cannot be given any credit on this forum as he is not one of the favoured ones.

Thank you for putting up clear concise and impartial posts. keep it up.

thinkstoomuch1

Cu Baire wrote: »

Your original comments were quite clear N20 and you were particularly clear about finding a balance.
Your mistake was partially agreeing with Anthony Daly who cannot be given any credit on this forum as he is not one of the favoured ones.

Thank you for putting up clear concise and impartial posts. keep it up.

It would be great if you could then show us where where going wrong and give us reasons to understand and debate argument for daly side in a clear and concise post

Thank in advance

Nobody has proved daly has any bit of logic when all ireland winner including Kilkenney at school level play huge part in strength conditions

I could include their minors also but I surely have given enough examples

Daly you will find if your review the post here got credit many times in the past however over all ireland winners like o neill , o grady. Wallis , wall, flood the logical thought process from my view is to take all ireland winner as gospel over a guy that has actually never came close all ireland as manager

Ed coughlan didn't win all ireland but he's record is far more impressive than daly in scientific field

Daly was good but hardly great I mean great now really really great manager tbh

dcrosskid

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

It would be great if you could then show us where where going wrong and give us reasons to understand and debate argument for daly side in a clear and concise post

Thank in advance

Nobody has proved daly has any bit of logic when all ireland winner including Kilkenney at school level play huge part in strength conditions

I could include their minors also but I surely have given enough examples

Daly you will find if your review the post here got credit many times in the past however over all ireland winners like o neill , o grady. Wallis , wall, flood the logical thought process from my view is to take all ireland winner as gospel over a guy that has actually never came close all ireland as manager

Ed coughlan didn't win all ireland but he's record is far more impressive than daly in scientific field

Daly was good but hardly great I mean great now really really great manager tbh

I think you are being fairly harsh on Daly there ttm1. No one has claimed he was/is a really great manger in fairness but what he has done is brought Dublin to new levels and made them a far more competitive team. Something that I didn't think I would ever see was them beating Kilkenny in championship hurling & following it up with a win over Galway, as well as a league where they blew KK away.

I havn't read that article but taking what has been said here, he said a 90-10 split should be hurling. I might be coming from the wrong angle here but he is now in charge of the Limerick underage academy or whatever you call it, but I think he would be right to be promoting this split in young kids coming through for Limerick. We do not need 14, 15 or even 16 year olds lifting weights or worrying about carbs, protein or the likes and perhaps thats the angle he was coming from. a 90/10 split seems logical to me in this case.

thinkstoomuch1

dcrosskid wrote: »

I think you are being fairly harsh on Daly there ttm1. No one has claimed he was/is a really great manger in fairness but what he has done is brought Dublin to new levels and made them a far more competitive team. Something that I didn't think I would ever see was them beating Kilkenny in championship hurling & following it up with a win over Galway, as well as a league where they blew KK away.

I havn't read that article but taking what has been said here, he said a 90-10 split should be hurling. I might be coming from the wrong angle here but he is now in charge of the Limerick underage academy or whatever you call it, but I think he would be right to be promoting this split in young kids coming through for Limerick. We do not need 14, 15 or even 16 year olds lifting weights or worrying about carbs, protein or the likes and perhaps thats the angle he was coming from. a 90/10 split seems logical to me in this case.

You need to evaluate what has actually been said by me regsrde daly

I never took away here ot any thread what he achieved in progress with dublin

However he's reached a plateau and even said last year quote correctly he had out grown them and despite media experts saying had a chance I write them off


Point I making you need understand is daly never won an all ireland coach yet o neill , mickey Harte, ger cunningham jack Pyke connor. Fotzmaurice. Mcguinness, gavin who are all big on sport science have so there logic I's actually backed up
Cody like wise is as proven in to it
Kinnerks the same
David Matthews with cork hurling
And Michael ryan or is it gearoid I think ex athlete with your own county and ex clarinbridge man Liam o donughe who on back room team also hugely in to science like eammon o shea and sheedy was



Hurling must come first and foremost but you can't become hurlers now and not an athlete
The game has changed your an athlete and a hurler

I'm still waiting for anyone prove me team won all ireland without these so called gimmick but people going around in circles with opinion fair enough their entitled to them but actually haven't backed them up with any logic in fact imo

homeofhurling

see Anthony Nash on about how goalkeepers will deal with the new penalty rule . well his to blame for the new rule the way he ran nearly onto the goalline before hitting it i see he was beaten by one last week he won't be a happy bunny i'd say when he is turn up sidedown a few times in the cork net now that only the keeper lines the goal.

thinkstoomuch1

homeofhurling wrote: »

see Anthony Nash on about how goalkeepers will deal with the new penalty rule . well his to blame for the new rule the way he ran nearly onto the goalline before hitting it i see he was beaten by one last week he won't be a happy bunny i'd say when he is turn up sidedown a few times in the cork net now that only the keeper lines the goal.

Yes nash was the first ever to do it and no one else did

I don't think so and it's been well proven at this stage Davy john Fenton many others did it

If I was a Kilkenney man I'd actually be leaning towards nash old style as the wheel I fear will turn a full circle as now goalies have no chance save penalty and kilkenny now awesome jj retires will actually suffer imo hugely and their days stopping man and ball are long gone as any penalty will be a goal
Interesting as season prevail to watch Eddie keher change he's tune imo

Mehapoy

dcrosskid wrote: »

I think you are being fairly harsh on Daly there ttm1. No one has claimed he was/is a really great manger in fairness but what he has done is brought Dublin to new levels and made them a far more competitive team. Something that I didn't think I would ever see was them beating Kilkenny in championship hurling & following it up with a win over Galway, as well as a league where they blew KK away.

I havn't read that article but taking what has been said here, he said a 90-10 split should be hurling. I might be coming from the wrong angle here but he is now in charge of the Limerick underage academy or whatever you call it, but I think he would be right to be promoting this split in young kids coming through for Limerick. We do not need 14, 15 or even 16 year olds lifting weights or worrying about carbs, protein or the likes and perhaps thats the angle he was coming from. a 90/10 split seems logical to me in this case.

Absolutely agree with the point regarding kids under 16, it should be about hurling, hurling, hurling, correcting grips, strikes etc. and getting each kid to fulfill their potential, it worries me all this s/c buzzword, because as sure as night follows days there will be guys getting 16 year olds into the gym with an incorrect grasp of 'strength' trying to bulk them up...

dcrosskid

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

You need to evaluate what has actually been said by me regsrde daly

I never took away here ot any thread what he achieved in progress with dublin

However he's reached a plateau and even said last year quote correctly he had out grown them and despite media experts saying had a chance I write them off


Point I making you need understand is daly never won an all ireland coach yet o neill , mickey Harte, ger cunningham jack Pyke connor. Fotzmaurice. Mcguinness, gavin who are all big on sport science have so there logic I's actually backed up
Cody like wise is as proven in to it
Kinnerks the same
David Matthews with cork hurling
And Michael ryan or is it gearoid I think ex athlete with your own county and ex clarinbridge man Liam o donughe who on back room team also hugely in to science like eammon o shea and sheedy was



Hurling must come first and foremost but you can't become hurlers now and not an athlete
The game has changed your an athlete and a hurler

I'm still waiting for anyone prove me team won all ireland without these so called gimmick but people going around in circles with opinion fair enough their entitled to them but actually haven't backed them up with any logic in fact imo

As I have said I haven't seen the article, (did someone post the link?) but what I will say is that the Dubs have been one of the most powerful and fittest teams over the last few years, which imo was a huge factor in them being able to compete with KK fairly well on a good few occasions during Daly's tenure. So I would be very surprised if Daly wasn't embracing sport sciences given the athletic make up of the Dubs. In fact many thought they had gone over board with their fitness and not concentrated on enough hurling.

However I am slightly surprised that he would say its a 90/10 split at senior level (if that is what he said) because that is not the case. 50/50 would be a far more accurate estimate at the requirements a player needs now. Considering the amount of time spent in gyms, physio tables, pools, ice baths, stretching, foam rolling, watching their diets, that would accumulate to an awful amount of time. Having seen many Tipp players in my own local gym I can testify to the long hours they put in off season, as i'm sure every serious county player is doing now.

Therefor I would conclude that Daly was referring to his new role of looking after younger players by promoting a 90/10 split focusing on hurling.

homeofhurling

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Yes nash was the first ever to do it and no one else did

I don't think so and it's been well proven at this stage Davy john Fenton many others did it

If I was a Kilkenney man I'd actually be leaning towards nash old style as the wheel I fear will turn a full circle as now goalies have no chance save penalty and kilkenny now awesome jj retires will actually suffer imo hugely and their days stopping man and ball are long gone as any penalty will be a goal
Interesting as season prevail to watch Eddie keher change he's tune imo

don't worry we won't suffer to much with jj gone, we will get another one somewhere we always did , unlike cork who haven't replace the likes of the rock sean og, Joe deane and Ben O'Connor, as for Keherchange his tune, its no wonder Frank Murphy hasn't his nose it it i suppose its because a corkman made this mess.

thinkstoomuch1

dcrosskid wrote: »

As I have said I haven't seen the article, (did someone post the link?) but what I will say is that the Dubs have been one of the most powerful and fittest teams over the last few years, which imo was a huge factor in them being able to compete with KK fairly well on a good few occasions during Daly's tenure. So I would be very surprised if Daly wasn't embracing sport sciences given the athletic make up of the Dubs. In fact many thought they had gone over board with their fitness and not concentrated on enough hurling.

However I am slightly surprised that he would say its a 90/10 split at senior level (if that is what he said) because that is not the case. 50/50 would be a far more accurate estimate at the requirements a player needs now. Considering the amount of time spent in gyms, physio tables, pools, ice baths, stretching, foam rolling, watching their diets, that would accumulate to an awful amount of time. Having seen many Tipp players in my own local gym I can testify to the long hours they put in off season, as i'm sure every serious county player is doing now.

Therefor I would conclude that Daly was referring to his new role of looking after younger players by promoting a 90/10 split focusing on hurling.

That's the ist actual logic post I read here among other jargon be fair It's balanced views


Nobody ever wanted athletes over hurling but it's impossible be hurler on modern game unless your an athlete first and foremost

Daly spoke a huge amount nonsense when like you said he actually befitted from strength and conditions at dublin


Every team won all ireland at any level has had huge part in strength conditions etc
If daly can prove one team done this with just ten per cent split I'd take notice but it's like looking for needle in a haystack he won't find one where a team won all ireland with ten per cent split over team with fifty fifty


It all about balance

No team will won all ireland without balance of speed work agility and strength conditions and nutrition and basic skills game combination of real real tactical nous in management and game flow management


I agree in development squads must be balanced but you got start young as proven starting at nineteen is too late
Science proves it
Problem is not the strength and conditions or gym work problem is how and when it's done

Like there is a cork under age team at moment that currently do cardiovascular training and gym work some times same nights
That's wrong as even average gym goer tell you you don't do weights same day as running etc as muscles are tired and you strain them increase risk of injury


It has huge part of the game once done correctly and not like something you see out of a rocky movie

thinkstoomuch1

homeofhurling wrote: »

don't worry we won't suffer to much with jj gone, we will get another one somewhere we always did , unlike cork who haven't replace the likes of the rock sean og, Joe deane and Ben O'Connor, as for Keherchange his tune, its no wonder Frank Murphy hasn't his nose it it i suppose its because a corkman made this mess.

Always sign of a lad looses debate when goes off tangent regards other players no relevant to the game
Debate the point in question which is Kilkenney will suffer from new rule
They can't have it all their own way
We have actually replaced those players bar the rock

Obviously not yet achieved same standard as rest but cork just need a full back
You need to do more research from the home of hurling surely you know frank murphy is actually a Kilkenney man I belive originally

Kilkenney may well find a full back but there going have huge trouble in holden is not a full back and glynn lad with ucc certainly isn't
I do agree kilkenny won't take age fill full back like cork

Smith614

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

You need to evaluate what has actually been said by me regsrde daly

I never took away here ot any thread what he achieved in progress with dublin

However he's reached a plateau and even said last year quote correctly he had out grown them and despite media experts saying had a chance I write them off


Point I making you need understand is daly never won an all ireland coach yet o neill , mickey Harte, ger cunningham jack Pyke connor. Fotzmaurice. Mcguinness, gavin who are all big on sport science have so there logic I's actually backed up
Cody like wise is as proven in to it
Kinnerks the same
David Matthews with cork hurling
And Michael ryan or is it gearoid I think ex athlete with your own county and ex clarinbridge man Liam o donughe who on back room team also hugely in to science like eammon o shea and sheedy was



Hurling must come first and foremost but you can't become hurlers now and not an athlete
The game has changed your an athlete and a hurler

I'm still waiting for anyone prove me team won all ireland without these so called gimmick but people going around in circles with opinion fair enough their entitled to them but actually haven't backed them up with any logic in fact imo

What proof is there that science is the vital ingredient. I have seen no Leitrim, cavan, Wicklow coming on leaps and bounds with new scientific approaches. The same counties are coming out on top in the science era and the pre science era. Nothing magic happened in Kerry when O Neill was there but its just that the media have a love affair with the new phenomenon. I think Joe Brolly is talking a lot of sense on this whole issue.

thinkstoomuch1

Smith614 wrote: »

What proof is there that science is the vital ingredient. I have seen no Leitrim, cavan, Wicklow coming on leaps and bounds with new scientific approaches. The same counties are coming out on top in the science era and the pre science era. Nothing magic happened in Kerry when O Neill was there but its just that the media have a love affair with the new phenomenon. I think Joe Brolly is talking a lot of sense on this whole issue.

Look brolly just doesn't know what sides he's actually on
He will go with whatever is unpopular just get he's voice earned


With greatest respect to those counties you mentioned I'm not being smart but we're talking elite elite level
You originally mentioned Kilkenney as this meant be prime example and I proved killkenny are big in to it


Just to elaborate though in so called weaker counties take camoige Ross Corbett cork now with limerick under twenty ones done huge work nutrition and recovery and strength training with cavan monaghan Tyrone up north when he was up there



Also kildare hurling making massive strides down to ex munster and leinster rubgy player ex meath under age football niall ronan who I's strength conditions coach



You asked for prove regards science I'n fairness how much do you actually need I given countless example if you can't see it fair enough

I can give more examples if needs be


On different note I see gerry o mahony coaching free mount next year and ex cork sub keeper Paul morrisey is coaching tullylease

If they meet two ex team mates in opposition

Like hear kerry views on o neill
He's proven and in tipp too
Two all ireland as manager daly has nothing at all I'n comparison


Watch armagh hurler improve under eoin cadogan

Don't be surprised if Jennifer leary coaches armagh down line in camoige and brings in such approach

Julie Davis ex great Britain sprinter with armagh senior football
Cavan under twenty football had huge success and had strength conditions coach etc
They all can't be wrong

thinkstoomuch1

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/brolly-warns-of-donegal-shock-205341.html

Brolly spoke many times in awe Donegal approach he actually lauded and said others should go that way
He was impressed by Donegal training
Now he gone other way
He speaks sense at times but he is he'll bent on being controversial imo and I admire brolly for what he does for kidney cause in ireland greatly but he runs hair chases hound at times with gaa views


He'll go against kerry now wait and see
He will preach next phenomenon but then just then get attention he will change tack so manytimes he forgets which side he's actually on

Joe I'm sorry but you can't sit on both sides of the fence

Moyna actually has degree and knows field he talking about with respect to joe he doesn't have expertise in the field

N20

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Good to see you changed your attuide, fair play, quite understandable with logic clearly showing nonsense was being spoken just my opinion of course

ttm1 You can be 'wan tick biy'

ciarriaithuaidh

Smith614 wrote: »

What proof is there that science is the vital ingredient. I have seen no Leitrim, cavan, Wicklow coming on leaps and bounds with new scientific approaches. The same counties are coming out on top in the science era and the pre science era. Nothing magic happened in Kerry when O Neill was there but its just that the media have a love affair with the new phenomenon. I think Joe Brolly is talking a lot of sense on this whole issue.

Sorry to butt in here now, but Kerry's approach to training, Strength & Conditioning changed completely under O'Neill. Pat Flanagan before him had taken things up a notch but O'Neill has taken it up a level again. When you hear the Gooch say he's the best trainer he ever worked with, then you know there's something special there. He is excellent for players also in that he doesn't flog them for 6-8 months. As can be seen by Kerry's league results in recent years, the aim is to have a mini-peak in fitness in July for Munster Final, then a lull (results dependant) followed by hitting peak fitness for the year in August.
I have to laugh at the lads scoffing at Sports Science here given that there are still counties flogging players with Stone age training methods out there. I saw an interview recently with a Westmeath player going on about the "old school" approach of their current trainer and how he reckoned it was good..loads of laps etc..That said 2 things to me. 1. The trainer is a dinosaur with no clue how to train a modern team. 2. Players do not necessarily know what is best for them and in a lot of cases need to be told.
Some people scoffing at the Ed Coughlan interview, specifically his mention of "weak eye" training. Now, fair enough, that is never going to be done except with a rare few high level teams and it certainly isn't a priority, but if you think its bullsh*t, you are mistaken. Coughlan has the academic credentials to back up what he is saying, whether you like him or not.
All that being said, I do wonder where we are going with all this in terms of getting kids to keep playing our games. It's becoming less and less enjoyable to play at any level, even club level with all that's going on. I think a properly structured club and county calendar would help enormously for one thing but I don't trust the GAA to do it. The current proposal of "oh just finish everything in the calendar year" is head in the sand stuff and unrealistic.

thinkstoomuch1

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Sorry to butt in here now, but Kerry's approach to training, Strength & Conditioning changed completely under O'Neill. Pat Flanagan before him had taken things up a notch but O'Neill has taken it up a level again. When you hear the Gooch say he's the best trainer he ever worked with, then you know there's something special there. He is excellent for players also in that he doesn't flog them for 6-8 months. As can be seen by Kerry's league results in recent years, the aim is to have a mini-peak in fitness in July for Munster Final, then a lull (results dependant) followed by hitting peak fitness for the year in August.
I have to laugh at the lads scoffing at Sports Science here given that there are still counties flogging players with Stone age training methods out there. I saw an interview recently with a Westmeath player going on about the "old school" approach of their current trainer and how he reckoned it was good..loads of laps etc..That said 2 things to me. 1. The trainer is a dinosaur with no clue how to train a modern team. 2. Players do not necessarily know what is best for them and in a lot of cases need to be told.
Some people scoffing at the Ed Coughlan interview, specifically his mention of "weak eye" training. Now, fair enough, that is never going to be done except with a rare few high level teams and it certainly isn't a priority, but if you think its bullsh*t, you are mistaken. Coughlan has the academic credentials to back up what he is saying, whether you like him or not.
All that being said, I do wonder where we are going with all this in terms of getting kids to keep playing our games. It's becoming less and less enjoyable to play at any level, even club level with all that's going on. I think a properly structured club and county calendar would help enormously for one thing but I don't trust the GAA to do it. The current proposal of "oh just finish everything in the calendar year" is head in the sand stuff and unrealistic.

At last hallelujah another poster who actually knows what he's talking about and a reasonable view


Some have old irish view with anything live in dark ages don't embrace change but see it as the enemy

commonsense.

N20 wrote:

Just to clarify my position as there seems to be a bit of misinterpretation - deliberate or otherwise

Seems to be a bit of this on this forum from what I can see. I'd say 'deliberate misinterpretation' for whatever reason. I suppose some people have nothing better to do and like to be controversial just for the sake of it.

N20

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Sorry to butt in here now, but Kerry's approach to training, Strength & Conditioning changed completely under O'Neill. Pat Flanagan before him had taken things up a notch but O'Neill has taken it up a level again. When you hear the Gooch say he's the best trainer he ever worked with, then you know there's something special there. He is excellent for players also in that he doesn't flog them for 6-8 months. As can be seen by Kerry's league results in recent years, the aim is to have a mini-peak in fitness in July for Munster Final, then a lull (results dependant) followed by hitting peak fitness for the year in August.
I have to laugh at the lads scoffing at Sports Science here given that there are still counties flogging players with Stone age training methods out there. I saw an interview recently with a Westmeath player going on about the "old school" approach of their current trainer and how he reckoned it was good..loads of laps etc..That said 2 things to me. 1. The trainer is a dinosaur with no clue how to train a modern team. 2. Players do not necessarily know what is best for them and in a lot of cases need to be told.
Some people scoffing at the Ed Coughlan interview, specifically his mention of "weak eye" training. Now, fair enough, that is never going to be done except with a rare few high level teams and it certainly isn't a priority, but if you think its bullsh*t, you are mistaken. Coughlan has the academic credentials to back up what he is saying, whether you like him or not.
All that being said, I do wonder where we are going with all this in terms of getting kids to keep playing our games. It's becoming less and less enjoyable to play at any level, even club level with all that's going on. I think a properly structured club and county calendar would help enormously for one thing but I don't trust the GAA to do it. The current proposal of "oh just finish everything in the calendar year" is head in the sand stuff and unrealistic.

This argument is really getting bogged down

Firstly Hurling and Football require different skill sets so what works for one may not work for another but depends on a player - I'm not sure these methods has advanced hurling in Kerry ? but I'm being a little churlish

everyone agrees that science has advanced sport and improved things hugely for players, with knock on benefits for teams, clubs, spectTors etc, no one is suggesting we return to archaic methods of flogging players, no hydration, S&C, nutrition etc

it's the guys who are making careers out of exploiting it to ridiculous levels and the managers that get suckered into placing too much emphasis on it versus the skills of the games, that I for one was raising questions about

the irony is with all the science and progression we have, BURNOUT remains a huge issue for our players and the science and it's application does not seem to be addressing that

The deliberate stupid interpretation of some posts has really dragged this argument into the mire

N20

commonsense. wrote: »

Seems to be a bit of this on this forum from what I can see. I'd say 'deliberate misinterpretation' for whatever reason. I suppose some people have nothing better to do and like to be controversial just for the sake of it.

Touche

thinkstoomuch1

commonsense. wrote: »

Seems to be a bit of this on this forum from what I can see. I'd say 'deliberate misinterpretation' for whatever reason. I suppose some people have nothing better to do and like to be controversial just for the sake of it.

Look speak a bit of common sense
I'm sorry now but just cause you don't like argument you have clearly been proved as nonsense go off in a different line and accuse some been controversial
Only ones being controversial are daly and brolly
I expect it from brolly I'm disappointed in daly tbh
He's really went down in my estimation



Can you actually please back up your argument with logic and facts??

Opinion is fine but you will find clearly it's actually devalued when you can't back it up with logic
I look forward to some logic behind your reasoning

thinkstoomuch1

N20 wrote: »

This argument is really getting bogged down

Firstly Hurling and Football require different skill sets so what works for one may not work for another but depends on a player - I'm not sure these methods has advanced hurling in Kerry ? but I'm being a little churlish

everyone agrees that science has advanced sport and improved things hugely for players, with knock on benefits for teams, clubs, spectTors etc, no one is suggesting we return to archaic methods of flogging players, no hydration, S&C, nutrition etc

it's the guys who are making careers out of exploiting it to ridiculous levels and the managers that get suckered into placing too much emphasis on it versus the skills of the games, that I for one was raising questions about

the irony is with all the science and progression we have, BURNOUT remains a huge issue for our players and the science and it's application does not seem to be addressing that

The deliberate stupid interpretation of some posts has really dragged this argument into the mire

You were the one started the debate and a selection of few decided that science in sport was wrong
You are right certain few here alright brought argument to absolutely ridiculous views

With reference to mention of stupidity Only stupirdly on the topic s imo people actually don't bar few know understand concept science in sport