Standing up to teachers

thelad95

martinedwards wrote: »

when I was teaching we would have meetings at the start of term and decide which perfectly normal, trouble free pupil we would pick on and make their life a living hell.

because clearly we had nothing else to do.

teacher picks on you?

don't flatter yourself.

you are one of 200 or so people through their room in a week.

Teachers DO pick on students and a lot of them are too young and/or scared to stand up for themselves.

This last bit is completely irrelevant.

looking_around

thelad95 wrote: »

Teachers DO pick on students and a lot of them are too young and/or scared to stand up for themselves.

This last bit is completely irrelevant.

This is true.

I remember a teacher asking once (note this was the lowest of the low, Irish level classes.) "Anyone here who can't count from 1-10 in Irish."

I put my hand up thinking she'd go through it. oh no. No. She burst out laughing at me and said "don't be ridiculous, what do you mean you can't count from 1-10, are you stupid, everyone learns that in primary school."

Got the rest of the class laughing with her to.

Needless to say that didn't go down well, I never made much of an effort in Irish after, just ended up somewhat forgotten at the back of the class.

I have other examples of cruel teachers but I think this covers it, emotionally anyway.

Triceratops Ballet

thelad95 wrote:

Teachers DO pick on students and a lot of them are too young and/or scared to stand up for themselves.

this may be true but in this case the op admitted that they talk in class and are "generally a good student (except in her class) "

Assuming this is the full story and given the lack of specific evidance to the contrary. The teacher is right, the op is not only disrespecting the teacher by talking out of turn but is also impeding the learning of classmates as the teacher is spending time she should be teaching on disciplining the op

evolving_doors

lanos wrote: »

and the christian brother teachers didn't abuse innocent trouble-free kids in their care either ?

no point denying it
lots of teachers are cnuts

lots of people are that too, whaddaya expect all teachers to be?robots?

I had excellent christian brother teachers... and nutters too, people are people...

osarusan

Summer wind wrote: »

When I was back at school next day my geography teacher called me and said she was delighted id passed and that she knew if she kept giving out to me it would be worth it.

I was shocked because at the time I thought she was giving me a hard time because she didn't like me. I was still so relieved to give up geography though:)

Did she actually make you work harder though?

Or is she just finding justification for treating you like she did?

Smidge

I had a teacher in secondary school and she was absolutely horrible to me.
Now, as an adult, looking back, she was a bully of the highest order.
I never gave her any reason to dislike me (other than I wasn't particularly good at the subject she taught but I kept my head down).
She still couldn't leave me be.
She went out of her way to try to humiliate me, day in and day out. Personal attacks that got more vicious as the years went on. Luckily, I wasn't a particularly fragile person. If I had been, it could have been a completely different outcome.
I would love to meet her now ;-)

lm01

Meangadh wrote: »

I'm a teacher (I teach Irish too as it happens) and no teacher goes into class wanting to nag at any individual student. They just want to teach. You're only one of probably about 100-150 students this teacher teaches so I seriously doubt she's overly occupied with annoying you specifically more than any other student.

This is absolute bunk. There are thousands of teachers in this country and no one person can speak for all of them. Teaching is a profession and there are just as many assh0les in it as any other. The vast majority of teachers are either there for the money or they genuinely help, but there ARE some who are just horrible and enjoy making the people in their power miserable.

There was one teacher in my school who took a deep sadistic pleasure on picking one kid per class and making their life an absolute hell. It happened that it was my best subject so I wasn't on his radar but the kid in my class he picked on was cut to ribbons by it and he was moved to tears on several occasions for absolutely no reason at all. He wasn't cheeky or chatty or rude, he was just near the bottom of the class and this guy enjoyed giving him a hard time while he struggled. It was sickening to watch.

I'm not saying the situation with the OP and his problem teacher is the same as that one but I do feel like there's an assumption that if there's a problem between a kid and a teacher it is always the fault of the student but the truth is that isn't always the case.

smcgiff

zcorpian88 wrote: »

What does the teacher do but gives me lines as a punishment and humiliated me in front of the class and my sister. All I could do is sit there just mind boggled that she is just picking on me for no good reason, couldn't believe she was serious, and all I wanted to do is call bull**** on her but I thought I shouldn't embarrass my sister. Then my sister being my sister, goes home and tells on me to my parents, I told them all I wasn't doing the lines because she picked on me because my sister was there and she wouldn't have done that to anyone else, essentially called her a cow for the whole night. Led to a massive argument between my folks and I because they wouldn't even hear me out or take my side. Sided with that bitch of a teacher. Hated her from that day forth. Even when I see her in public now raises my blood pressure.

For your own sake. Let... it... go.

OldNotWIse

thelad95 wrote: »

Teachers DO pick on students and a lot of them are too young and/or scared to stand up for themselves.

This last bit is completely irrelevant.

Yup, this. My family moved from Tallaght to Knocklyon when we were kids. I settled in ok because I was 5 and just starting school. Pretty much adapted my accent overnight :P My brother however was nine and went into 3rd class. It was harder for him to integrate. Cue absolute bítch of a teacher deciding she had an issue with him, blaming him for everything that went wrong (including graffitying the toilets when he wasn't even there) and informing the class he was "from dirty Tallaght" - I tell you if I saw that bítch now I wouldn't be responsible for what I'd do to her. Poor little nine year old kid. ffs.

shuffles88

sw33t_r3v3ng3 wrote: »

I will admit I do talk a bit in class but I do all homework assigned and am a good student in general (except her class)

What student doesn't talk in class now and again? You're a teenager after all. I had a teacher who took an instant dislike to me, if other people talked I got the blame she'd try to belittle me at any given chance. I just kept my head down and tried to get on with things, that is until the 1st day I was back in school after my Granddad died, two people either side of me were talking across me to each other and she tried to blame me. When I stood up for myself she decided to give me detention, I never made any trouble and had never once been given detention.

One of my friends told my year head teacher what had happened and she had a word with this teacher and told her off for giving me detention. I never had trouble again after she knew someone was aware of her behaviour.

Maybe if there is a teacher or guidance councellor in school that could act as a intermediary for you it would be a good idea to discuss it with them. If you approach the teacher yourself you might unintentionally get personal or say things you didn't intend.

Teyla Emmagan

Quit being a pain in the a&& and she'll leave you alone OP. How can you have the cheek to ask for advice on 'standing up for yourself' when you admit you keep disrupting her class? If she doesn't like you that's your own fault.

Wibbs

IMHO it depends entirely on why and how you're being disruptive. If you are sure you're being fed BS, then call it. More, show why it's BS and better again give a less BS alternative. Disruption for disruption's sake is all very well and part and parcel of being a pain in the hole to adults, but try and find the why's and the how's and the I can make more sense stuff. Prepare to be boycotted for it mind you. The more sense you make the more likely that is. However the same level of exclusion comes with general twattery as it does with actual opposing debate and few enough when young can tell the difference(few enough when older for that matter).

TL;DR? Pick your battles and make sure you can win them. In this case i would say let it da fuq go.

MRnotlob606

cloud493 wrote: »

Maybe shut your mouth and do what your told?

if you follow the maxim in your life your're probably going to be ****ed over quite a lot.

cloud493

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

if you follow the maxim in your life your're probably going to be ****ed over quite a lot.

No, not really. If in school, I'd learnt sooner to keep my mouth shut, do what was I told, and listen to what I was being taught, I'd have got further than I am now, faster. Being a smart arsehole in a class room gets you nothing in the long run.

Mountainsandh

sw33t_r3v3ng3 wrote: »

I'm in 5th year and I've got a ***** of a teacher. She tries to be intimidating but she's not really. I wouldn't say I'm afraid of her by any means but I'm not great at standing up for myself. How can I stand up for myself in future when she starts giving me ****?

OP you don't say if she's giving you **** for work reasons, or for behaviour, so it's really hard to figure the situation you're in.

Is she being a b**** because you make mistakes in the subject, or because you don't understand stuff ?

Or is her behaviour in response to your behaviour ?

Is she being intimidating like, telling you if you get an answer wrong, or if your test is poor, she'll do "x", or "x" will happen ?

or is she saying if you keep talking/if you don't stop tapping your pen on the table "I'll do x" ?

I'm not saying it's one or the other, I'm just asking you because it's not very clear.

Some teachers do pick on kids and are b*****, but sometimes it's just a communication problem too, as in, they're not aware they are being so intimidating, or maybe the student is just in a very defensive mood.

MRnotlob606

cloud493 wrote: »

No, not really. If in school, I'd learnt sooner to keep my mouth shut, do what was I told, and listen to what I was being taught, I'd have got further than I am now, faster. Being a smart arsehole in a class room gets you nothing in the long run.

I'm not talking about being a smart asshole, I'm talking about standing up for yourself. On the contrary I was once told to stand for the whole class for something I didn't do, she found out in the end it wasn't me and I had the best smuggest smile on my face.

Esel

smcgiff wrote: »

We've learned two thinggs about seamus. He has a dubious grasp of maths and Irish

OP, I suggest being a model student for a week (as much as it kills you) and if she's still acting the maggott do as suggested ask her if there is a misunderstanding because you don't understand why you are being singled out. If she stops, then great.

It's more important for you to learn in the class than to rebel. She'll still have a job, so try and resolve it.

Then at the end of 6th year call her every name under the sun. It wont be long coming around.

seamus wrote: »

I initially only had two options and then added one, but forgot to change it

Three thinggs , then.

Piliger

cloud493 wrote: »

No, not really. If in school, I'd learnt sooner to keep my mouth shut, do what was I told, and listen to what I was being taught, I'd have got further than I am now, faster. Being a smart arsehole in a class room gets you nothing in the long run.

How to maintain control and 'think' about the best way to get what you want was one of the most difficult one that I had to help my son learn when he was in 2ndry school. But he got it. Learning how to leave it at the time, and deal with it in private later or before lessons, and when to approach the head and when just to suck it up. All great lessons for later life.

DoYouEvenLift

Try having a threesome with her and another female teacher

Chancer3001

Mouthy kid talks out of turn

Teacher "hates" them.

Is it primary school you're in by any chance?

You're meant to be on your way to being an adult. Stop disrupting the teacher and try to learn you idiot.

mackeire

sw33t_r3v3ng3 wrote: »

I'm in 5th year and I've got a ***** of a teacher. She tries to be intimidating but she's not really. I wouldn't say I'm afraid of her by any means but I'm not great at standing up for myself. How can I stand up for myself in future when she starts giving me ****?

Slash hook

TheBeardedLady

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

I'm not talking about being a smart asshole, I'm talking about standing up for yourself. On the contrary I was once told to stand for the whole class for something I didn't do, she found out in the end it wasn't me and I had the best smuggest smile on my face.

Standing up for yourself in a mature fashion though, not having a shouting match in class.


I understand bullying of certain students does go on. I mentioned before that I was always talking in class right through school and deserved the hard time I got from some teachers but one teacher did actually have it in for me and all my siblings.

I'm the youngest of 5 and we all went to the same school in my hometown. My brother was one of the biggest trouble maker in the school back in his day (taking the off nuns' habit and running around the school with it on his head while they chased him was a common occurrence). Basically, he was a bollocks and most teachers disliked him, understandably, including my JC Irish teacher. This teacher taught all of us and we all reported on how we felt picked on.

I was chatty but I wasn't cheeky (I was shy) and was generally a nice enough girl. He'd make sly little digs at me in front of the class that were always a little too personal for merely giving out. I remember one time he told me my shoes made my feet look massive in front of everyone and I was mortified. When I did my mock Irish JC oral, I did very well and he said after it finished, "I can't believe how well you did! I always thought you were a little bitch (that word was used) and didn't think you'd do that well!". I was 16 at the time. I told him I wasn't a fan of his either and we shook hands. That was the last year I had him.

Years later as an adult I met him in a pub and I brought up that conversation and he admitted to not liking me on account of the family I was from, so my suspicions were confirmed.

It's true that teachers can pick on students but you have to be very sure that that's the case here. If you really feel this teacher is crossing the line from merely telling you off for acting the eejit and being disruptive to actively singling you out more than other disruptive students, then I'd advice you to approach your principal. I know at that age it's hard to see the wood for the trees and you feel the whole world is against you but you have to be honest with yourself and your behaviour.

RebelSoul

Tell her that a teacher is just someone who learns a bunch of stuff to recite that someone with brains already figured out. Nothing special about her.

Wulfie

sw33t_r3v3ng3 wrote: »

Must be a coincidence that she's an Irish teacher too....

In many years, you may wish you could communicate more than your need or desire to go to the letheris( jax ) .
I wish I could say more as geilge .
Do your homework and listen in class.

SparkySpitfire

I know some teachers who could do with a kick up the hole. I also know some shopkeepers, doctors, gardai, bouncers and old grannies who could do with one as well.

Wish everyone would stop acting like teachers are saints (and, by the way the people on this thread who ARE teachers haven't acted like this at all) because they're not, they're just people like the rest of us. Some people are just f-ckers.

cloud493

Of course teachers aren't perfect. There are indeed ****ty teachers. But teachers also have a pretty rough job at times, I wouldn't want to do it.

SparkySpitfire

cloud493 wrote: »

Of course teachers aren't perfect. There are indeed ****ty teachers. But teachers also have a pretty rough job at times, I wouldn't want to do it.

I know it can be, although I've only seen the tip of the iceberg with TEFL, but the assumption that the student is automatically in the wrong by default irks me.

cloud493

I see what you mean, cant say I'd agree with that at all. I mean sure theres bad students, but theres also bad teachers. On my PLC course for example, theres at least one tutor who rarely turns up in class, doesn't give us the handouts she says she will nor does she put them on moodle, and when she does turn up to class, doesn't answer questions when people ask them and leave early. So, definitely not a one sided argument.

lulu1

Teachers dont just take a dislike to a pupil for no reason if you do your homework and behave in class you should have no problem. My son is now at collage and from the day he started school he got two notes one in national school for getting up before the bell went and one in secondary from a young sub teacher for talking so all in all it wasnt a bad 13years work Op put your head down and do your work

looking_around

lulu1 wrote: »

Teachers dont just take a dislike to a pupil for no reason if you do your homework and behave in class you should have no problem. My son is now at collage and from the day he started school he got two notes one in national school for getting up before the bell went and one in secondary from a young sub teacher for talking so all in all it wasnt a bad 13years work Op put your head down and do your work

lol, yes, yes some do.

lulu1

looking_around wrote: »

lol, yes, yes some do.

well going by some of ops comments I say it takes two to tango

SparkySpitfire

lulu1 wrote: »

well going by some of ops comments I say it takes two to tango

In this case, probably yes. In general, teachers can take an automatic dislike to someone just like you or I can.

MJ23

GalwayGirl26 wrote: »

Teacher here;
Just talk to her after class, straight out day you don't feel comfortable in her class, and your not sure if ye just got off on the wrong foot or something, but you would like her to be aware of it.
Honestly, sometimes teachers just don't like students; perhaps she just got a wrong first impression or something, but change her mind about you before it's cemented.

Not an English teacher I hope.

You're.

Mountainsandh

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

I know it can be, although I've only seen the tip of the iceberg with TEFL, but the assumption that the student is automatically in the wrong by default irks me.

There has to be a fair assessment of the situation though : on one hand, professional adults, on the other hand adolescents.

A reasonable to small proportion of the professional adults will have their own baggage and issues, and will misjudge and possibly be unfair to some students.

A rather large proportion of adolescents will be at a stage in their life when they are full of insecurities, possibly have self-esteem issues, and think that adults (and their peers) are judging them all the time.
With less experience in communication and social interaction under their belt, they may misunderstand or interpret wrongly adult behaviour and/or language.
With a perspective that is largely centered on self, they might fail to understand adult concepts : why rules are important for example, and why and how something that is required of them has an impact on others (for example, to keep quiet in class).
While learning to stand up for themselves (hint hint), they may alternate between adequate, and inadequate response. That is, sometimes be confrontational in situations where there was no need, or maybe in a disproportionate manner.

TL/DR : I'm sorry for the above long winded reminder of obvious stuff.
Simply put : often, an adolescent telling you an adult is picking on them will be similar to a 4 year old child telling you their mother is very mean, because she wouldn't let them play in the cat litter.

It's easy to see the gap between the 4 year old and their Mum, it is less easy to see it with teenagers who often act beyond their years, but are in reality still years away from (mental) adulthood.

So no, the kids are not wrong by default when saying some teachers treat them unfairly, but very veeery often they are (imo).

FISMA

sw33t_r3v3ng3 wrote: »

How can I stand up for myself in future when she starts giving me ****?

Ask the teacher how she would feel if her actions, hypothetically, were posted on facebook.

Explain that you have no intentions of doing such. However, cannot control the actions of others.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

We had a home ec teacher who absolutely did take dislikes to kids for no reason, but to be fair to her she hated most of them equally. She'd have the few chosen ones but really, she was a nasty cow. She taught my mother 16 years previously to me, and my mother said she was a nasty cow then too.

My religion teacher took a dislike to me, but I fought fire with fire and after several weeks of putting up with her picking on me, I gave as good as I got and by the end of that year she had reason to dislike me.

I got on well enough with the rest of them. You could tell they were probably pretty nice people even though they could be cross, but they treated us fairly I guess.

Mountainsandh

I notice that I didn't answer OP properly though.

I think if you really think you are being treated unfairly, you should have a quiet chat with her, not even at the end of class, at whatever other time she might be available, when both of you won't be cross from having had to endure each other recently.

Tell her you feel she's misjudging you, and that it makes you feel rotten when she's being tough with you, and that you don't mean to be a pain in class. Don't say she's trying to intimidate you, and you're not falling for it, because she might start to be cross again, just let her understand that herself. You want to try and talk without either of you getting angry or defensive, you've way more chances to change her mind that way.
If that still doesn't work, get a parent to come along and have the same conversation with her again.

SparkySpitfire

Mountainsandh wrote: »

There has to be a fair assessment of the situation though : on one hand, professional adults, on the other hand adolescents.

I don't necessarily disagree with you here but I feel that whether they work in a profession or not, adults will nearly always side with other adults over children. People forget they were once kids and teenagers themselves, and it's that which I find unreasonable

With less experience in communication and social interaction under their belt, they may misunderstand or interpret wrongly adult behaviour and/or language.

And that's why adults (including teachers) need to HELP them understand, not just law down the law without explaining the benefits and necessity of it. They need to communicate - as I'm sure you'll agree - I'm just reiterating earlier sentiments. What's important though, is to help teenagers understand without belittling them or talking "at" them. God I hated that. I hated double standards and arguments that ended with "because I said so". People pull at teenagers so much, wanting them to grow up on one hand, and trying to shelter them with another, is it any wonder they're so confused and angry?

With a perspective that is largely centered on self, they might fail to understand adult concepts : why rules are important for example, and why and how something that is required of them has an impact on others (for example, to keep quiet in class).

As I grew older I grew less blindly accepting of these rules. Many of them serve no purpose other than to create tension between teacher and student. For example, the rule in my school was that you were not to wear outdoor uniform e.g. school coat or hoodie during class time. In the winter, teachers would come in wearing their big bubble coats and scarves and then at the same time tell student to take off their hoodies. The school wasn't heated properly but the teachers were more worried that the principal or deputy would come in and see the students in their hoodies (i.e. "let away with it" by the teacher, thus tarnishing their reputation as far as discipline is concerned) than the notion that the students might actually be cold, not obstinate. These stupid nonsensical rules and the red tape all around my school made me LOATHE the place come sixth year. I was disgusted with myself that I participated and put so much effort into extra curricular activities when I was treated like vermin by the administrators. Teachers don't set the rules but they have to enforce them and they're on the front line which is so unfair IMO.

While learning to stand up for themselves (hint hint), they may alternate between adequate, and inadequate response. That is, sometimes be confrontational in situations where there was no need, or maybe in a disproportionate manner.

The above is why I think it's so important that students learn to stand up for themselves, as you say, in an adequate and appropriate manner. But you can never learn something without trying and failing and where else are teenagers going to learn this but at home and school which takes up the majority of their lives?


I was, bluntly, a model student. :pac: But I was downtrodden so much by teachers in my time that I resent them now. I had some lovely inspirational ones that I'll be grateful to forever, but it's funny how you always remember the bad over the good. School really left me with a rotten taste in my mouth.

EDIT: I realise I went on a bit of a tangent there, whoops :P Points are a bit all over the place but it's late, excuse me haha

Mountainsandh

Nah, I totally see your points SparkySpitfire.
It's shocking how some people who made it their business to teach are really poor at communicating themselves, there are definitely some teachers who don't explain enough, are blunt, or even get personal.
Having said that, the rules in school are usually made pretty clear from the word go, and they're explained in pretty simple terms.
Hard to find a balance.

Sorry for a slight off topic OP.

Terrible to think some people like you may come out of school feeling hurt and humiliated.

SparkySpitfire

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Nah, I totally see your points SparkySpitfire.
It's shocking how some people who made it their business to teach are really poor at communicating themselves, there are definitely some teachers who don't explain enough, are blunt, or even get personal.
Having said that, the rules in school are usually made pretty clear from the word go, and they're explained in pretty simple terms.
Hard to find a balance.

Sorry for a slight off topic OP.

Terrible to think some people like you may come out of school feeling hurt and humiliated.

I think my objection is more with the administration than the teachers themselves. Some good teachers can get really jaded from the stupid rules and ethos they're compelled to enforce when really all they want to do is teach, not be disciplinarians. It really is a job I could never do.

Karl Stein

Don't sweat it bro. The Italians built the leaning Eiffel tower and it's only because they didn't listen that it has been such a success for Paris :cool:

Sometimes being wrong is more right than all the people shouting at you :cool:

Gordon Minard

You'd want to see the way we were treated!

My father worked for the council and I was told, every day, in a condescending manner not to worry about school but to "learn how to lean on a shovel"

Did a lot of damage

dont bother

seriously OP, i had the same thing as you when i was in school, actually in 5th year to be precise... the reason i got it though, was what you envisage as your solution "by standing up" for myself.

since the age of 4 or 5 i never saw adults as people that were better than me, and i had it tough because of that ALL through school right up until after i finished the leaving.

some teachers just like the power trip, they didnt like me at all- not one of them did, because i used to be "cheeky" (or looking back now, i used to speak to them like they were my equals, not superiors).

if you want to get at her, the best revenge would be to speak to her like she's a mate, not as a superior. if you know for a fact she is being out of line, just say it, like you would to a mate "eh, sorry there (whatever her first name is), you're being out of line, and a bit personal there, so kindly back the fook off"... something along those lines.

or just wait until your finished in the school and then trash her room on the last day.

RoboRat

Treat it like a learning experience for life because that is what it is.

You will work for somebody who you don't like, you will encounter people in power who you don't agree with and being honest, you sometimes have to keep the gob shut and get on with it. Life isn't fair and the sooner you realise that, the sooner you can get on with enjoying life.

I had bosses who were absolute a$sholes but thats life. I would have loved to stand up to them but it would have hampered my career. You have to pick and choose your fights and sometimes its better to tow the line and accept a situation than to make a stand and just make it worse.

I am not saying lie down, but think carefully before you react and weigh up whether its worth it for what it will attain; and always fight your case when you are calm and not wound up.

evolving_doors

dont bother wrote: »

seriously OP, i had the same thing as you when i was in school, actually in 5th year to be precise... the reason i got it though, was what you envisage as your solution "by standing up" for myself.

since the age of 4 or 5 i never saw adults as people that were better than me, and i had it tough because of that ALL through school right up until after i finished the leaving.

some teachers just like the power trip, they didnt like me at all- not one of them did, because i used to be "cheeky" (or looking back now, i used to speak to them like they were my equals, not superiors).

if you want to get at her, the best revenge would be to speak to her like she's a mate, not as a superior. if you know for a fact she is being out of line, just say it, like you would to a mate "eh, sorry there (whatever her first name is), you're being out of line, and a bit personal there, so kindly back the fook off"... something along those lines.

or just wait until your finished in the school and then trash her room on the last day.

And while he's doing that he could stop persistently talking in her class and let everyone get on with it.