Two yr old boy stabbed to death in dublin

Acedia.

Even if it emerges that the perpetrator of these murders had a mental health illness history, it is inaccurate and deeply stigmatising to attribute such acts to mental health difficulties alone.


What these tragic events highlight is that there is a need to tackle, at a societal level, our attitudes and beliefs about children. And to ensure our child protection systems pick up situations where children are at risk.

www dot stpatricks dot ie/editorials/it-inaccurate-attribute-murder-suicides-mental-health-difficulties-alone

Regarding the issue of mental illness, it's worth remembering that the vast majority of murders are carried out by people with no mental illness and a tiny number are carried out by the mentally ill. The notion that mental illness makes a person a potential violent murderer is a myth.
All the stigmatizing myths about mental illness cause people to delay seeking treatment for mental health issues, leading to a lot of unnecessary suffering and contributing to our terrible suicide rate.

Every family in Ireland is touched by mental illness. Let's not make a link between that and these vile acts of unthinkable evil.

mrsbyrne

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

What would you do with a mentality I'll person who violently takes another life?

Whether mountjoy or Dundrum, incarceration is indeed necessary.

In your opinion then mental illness cant be cured and those mentally ill need to be locked up and the key thrown away in order to keep the rest of us "normal" safe? If you become mentally ill or your loved one, your child , your Oh does this apply to them too?

the_monkey

fedor.2. wrote: »

Probably being super cautious after what happened when they took that Roma kid

woodoo wrote: »

I wonder did the father take him that time because he was worried about the mother.

michael999999 wrote: »

And the Gardai handed him straight back to he's mother!

Yep once again PC BULLSHÏT has trumped and a 2 yr old kid is dead.


Well done socal services, keep abducting kids that are looked after ok tho....


Ireland following the UK on the road to a nazi SS police brutality paedophile state

mrsbyrne

Irishcrx wrote: »

Truly awful stuff, a poor innocent 2 year old. I can't and never will understand how anybody could hurt a child , let alone their own child.

If they are depressed, on medication whatever they shouldn't be in the care of the child at all in that case.

There is no excuse for it , if you are in that bad a state of mind why kill the child? What has that child done to deserve it? Nothing.

Kill yourself so , but leave the ****ing children alone to live their life they have done nothing. I don't mean to be cold , but I just can't understand why these people can't just kill themselves if they are in that state why do they have to kill the innocent children.

RIP little lad.

What are you talking about? Theres no evidence that this woman wanted to kill herself!

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

How many people are depressed? How many of these people have children? Or even don't have children. How many people with mental illness go around murdering people? Hardly any.

Whoever killed that child, mental illness or not, is bad to the bone and I for one hope they rot, with only the thoughts of what she done for company.

BoJack Horseman

mrsbyrne wrote: »

In your opinion then mental illness cant be cured and those mentally ill need to be locked up and the key thrown away in order to keep the rest of us "normal" safe? If you become mentally ill or your loved one, your child , your Oh does this apply to them too?

That's a stretch Byrnsey.

No, I'm of the opinion that if someone violently murders a baby, they probably shouldn't just be allowed to get on with their life as if nothing happened.

I guess we'll agree to disagree on that.

If the perpetrators defence lawyer convinces the court of a mental impairment defence, the perpetrator still should be held in a psychiatric facility for treatment.

vicwatson

It's a real tragic situation, a little innocent boy has lost his life and a mother will suffer the rest of her days, the poor woman (yes go ahead and chastise me) obviously has some serious mental issues and although I would never forgive her for murdering an innocent child, one at the same time has to feel sorry for her, she will take the fact she has killed her innocent little boy to the grave (DOES NOT excuse it mind you). Bad situation.

murphm45

First and foremost can I say RIP to the poor child and my condolences to his family and friends.

Now on to my ridiculous question! There's a lot of talk here about the failure of the gards, hse etc but were these even involved? Yes there was a cri alert and while I don't know the details I would suspect the father (who was found with the child) was spending time with his son, who I assume is in the mothers custody and when they didn't return as expected she contacted the Gardaí. When the child was found he was return to his mother (again I'm assuming she's the childs custodian). Presumably that was end of, no? They might have interviewed the father and if they did and established there was no risk to the child why would they get any more involved?

I know there's a lot of assumptions on my part on this so if I missed something let me know but if I'm not it seems a little harsh to chastise state service for what is by all (available) accounts just a very tragic murder case.

Obviously this could by my overly naive view so feel free to cut what I said to shreds.

mrsbyrne

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

That's a stretch Byrnsey.

No, I'm of the opinion that if someone violently murders a baby, they probably shouldn't just be allowed to get on with their life as if nothing happened.

I guess we'll agree to disagree on that.

If the perpetrators defence lawyer convinces the court of a mental impairment defence, the perpetrator still should be held in a psychiatric facility for treatment.

You say "convinces the court" as if you are convinced that there actually is no such thing as psychosis. What medical evidence have you got to support this?
Also, where did I say that this woman should be allowed to get on with her life as if nothing happened, or that she would want to?

Galwayguy35

That guy that murdered his 2 kids was sent to prison and rightly so, no reason this situation should be any different.

HeidiHeidi

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

That guy that murdered his 2 kids was sent to prison and rightly so, no reason this situation should be any different.

He was returned to the Central Mental Hospital in Dundrum.

Galwayguy35

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

He was returned to the Central Mental Hospital in Dundrum.

Well hopefully he will be there for a long time.

Holsten

Talk of pure evil and other such bollox.

This is the result of severe mental illness coupled with the huge failings of the Gardai and the HSE.

Horrible tragedy.

Peter Anthony

vicwatson wrote: »

It's a real tragic situation, a little innocent boy has lost his life and a mother will suffer the rest of her days, the poor woman (yes go ahead and chastise me) obviously has some serious mental issues and although I would never forgive her for murdering an innocent child, one at the same time has to feel sorry for her, she will take the fact she has killed her innocent little boy to the grave (DOES NOT excuse it mind you). Bad situation.

Yawn, oh the poor thing how will she live with it...you idiot.

She just stabbed a 2 year old to death and youre feeling sorry for her. Get a grip of yourself. She should get life, a danger to children and society.

billy111

Holsten wrote: »

Talk of pure evil and other such bollox.

This is the result of severe mental illness coupled with the huge failings of the Gardai and the HSE.

Horrible tragedy.

Prove of these huge failings?

branie2

branie2 wrote: »

I hope the woman who killed him is charged, convicted, and gets a really tough sentence

If you are aware of the details of what happened, and know that a woman killed him, I'd advise you to go to gardai and give a witness statement.

Otherwise, I think you should wait until ALL the details are known.

kowloon

the_monkey wrote: »

Yep once again PC BULLSHÏT has trumped and a 2 yr old kid is dead.
Well done socal services, keep abducting kids that are looked after ok tho....
Ireland following the UK on the road to a nazi SS police brutality paedophile state

Damn those Stalinist Communist Fascist pinko liberal Sturmtruppen Gestapo civil service One Direction fans!

Have I missed anything?

A ****ty thing has happened, details will follow in time.

Little CuChulainn

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

The CRI alert was cancelled very quickly after being issued, and Gardai said they were satisfied that the boy was never in any danger. (Cannot for the life of me find the article again, I read it earlier, think it was the Irish Times). Said that at the time they were doubtful about issuing it but felt that they had no choice.

I'm not saying the CRI didn't have anything to do with today's tragic event (because I don't know and I suspect no-one else posting here does either), but equally we can't and shouldn't jump to conclusions.

I think you are mixing it up with the CRI for the kid who faked his kidnapping.

As for the tirade against social services. The HSE cannot keep kids indefinitely and they need to get an order from a judge to hold the child longer than a day or two against the wished of his parents. As these cases are held in camera I think it's premature to be putting the blame on them without knowing if this case was before a judge and what happened there.

Holsten

billy111 wrote: »

Prove of these huge failings?

A dead 2 year old boy.

murphaph

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

I suspect, though, that cases like today's one are rarely the result of human plain and downright evil. I would guess that a majority are a result of some form of mental illness.

As I said earlier, I don't know, and nobody else does either.

But that's my opinion.

There are more pure evil fcukers in this world than we'd like to believe. I don't know if the killer in this case is one.

I feel very sad right now having just read about this. Have a 17 month old son and well, just doesn't bear thinking about how terrified he must have been as he died. Mentally ill or not, the killer of a child should NEVER walk free again, just in case.

billy111

Holsten wrote: »

A dead 2 year old boy.

You made an accusation. Can't back it up. I suggest you wait until all facts are know to make such statements

Gael23

murphaph wrote: »

There are more pure evil fcukers in this world than we'd like to believe. I don't know if the killer in this case is one.

I feel very sad right now having just read about this. Have a 17 month old son and well, just doesn't bear thinking about how terrified he must have been as he died. Mentally ill or not, the killer of a child should NEVER walk free again, just in case.

It must feel terrifying as a parent of a similar age child alright. Its also difficult in that the child is not the only victim. He wasn't killed by a cold blooded murderer put apparently by a psychologically deranged person. Some like that won't ever awl free but I imagine would be sent to a mental institution rather than a prison as such

Holsten

billy111 wrote: »

You made an accusation. Can't back it up. I suggest you wait until all facts are know to make such statements

Ok, what is currently known? Of course I don't know pure facts but this is a discussion site.

• 2 year old Hassan Khan murdered in his home today, current suspect is mother.
• 10th Aug 2014 a CRI Alert went out looking for the boy, who was with his father. Best guess was the mother requested this.

What investigation was done into both parents? Or just the father? What did the Gardai/HSE do to protect the child from any impending danger? Was there any checks done into the mental health of both parents?

In my view, mother has severe mental illness, perhaps already diagnosed. Father wants to take child from mother, believes she is a danger. Mother contacts Gardai, CRI issued for Hassan and his father. The family are reunited but nothing seems to have been checked? If it was the child would not have been in solo custody of the mother.

These are just my thoughts. The failings are with whatever governmental body saw fit to do nothing - Gardai & HSE.

Irelandcool

Sometimes these things happen no matter how insane, sick or evil they're they happen. Personally I think a person this insane or evil should be given life sentences with no chance of being suspended or released by anyone be it judge or minister for justice. This should be reserved for particularly shocking, sick, evil, or insane people who commit or attempt to commit such as this.

billy111

Holsten wrote: »

Ok, what is currently known? Of course I don't know pure facts but this is a discussion site.

• 2 year old Hassan Khan murdered in his home today, current suspect is mother.
• 10th Aug 2014 a CRI Alert went out looking for the boy, who was with his father. Best guess was the mother requested this.

What investigation was done into both parents? Or just the father? What did the Gardai/HSE do to protect the child from any impending danger? Was there any checks done into the mental health of both parents?

In my view, mother has severe mental illness, perhaps already diagnosed. Father wants to take child from mother, believes she is a danger. Mother contacts Gardai, CRI issued for Hassan and his father. The family are reunited but nothing seems to have been checked? If it was the child would not have been in solo custody of the mother.

These are just my thoughts. The failings are with whatever governmental body saw fit to do nothing - Gardai & HSE.

5 questions in your reply. Shows the full details are yet to be known. Make your judgement once the full details are known.

Little CuChulainn

Holsten wrote: »

Ok, what is currently known? Of course I don't know pure facts but this is a discussion site.

• 2 year old Hassan Khan murdered in his home today, current suspect is mother.
• 10th Aug 2014 a CRI Alert went out looking for the boy, who was with his father. Best guess was the mother requested this.

What investigation was done into both parents? Or just the father? What did the Gardai/HSE do to protect the child from any impending danger? Was there any checks done into the mental health of both parents?

In my view, mother has severe mental illness, perhaps already diagnosed. Father wants to take child from mother, believes she is a danger. Mother contacts Gardai, CRI issued for Hassan and his father. The family are reunited but nothing seems to have been checked? If it was the child would not have been in solo custody of the mother.

These are just my thoughts. The failings are with whatever governmental body saw fit to do nothing - Gardai & HSE.

I'll repost this because it seems you missed it

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

As for the tirade against social services. The HSE cannot keep kids indefinitely and they need to get an order from a judge to hold the child longer than a day or two against the wishes of his parents. As these cases are held in camera I think it's premature to be putting the blame on them without knowing if this case was before a judge and what happened there.

Holsten

Irelandcool wrote: »

Sometimes these things happen no matter how insane, sick or evil they're they happen. Personally I think a person this insane or evil should be given life sentences with no chance of being suspended or released by anyone be it judge or minister for justice. This should be reserved for particularly shocking, sick, evil, or insane people who commit or attempt to commit such as this.

Why so focused upon what should happen to the mother rather than what could have been done to prevent this?

curioser

Don't know if I want to, or even should, get involved in this discussion but here goes.

While not referring to this specific tragedy, we regularly see sad examples of family annihilations where a parent kills a child or children and possibly also the spouse/partner and maybe themselves. In many cases their actions derive from a visceral hatred of the spouse/partner which they carry out in order to hurt them by destroying that which they love.

Because of the nature of these cases it can be very difficult to establish that a child or children are, in fact, in danger.

Therefore jumping to conclusions as to who or what has failed the victims is not particularly helpful.

Lyger

Jeez, even if severe mental disturbance caused this awful event (and I believe it did - I don't know, but I believe) they perpetrator should still be incarcerated for a long, long time. It's not like they'd be safe to others or themselves on the outside anyway.

That's not dissing people with mental illness. I've had terrible depression myself. But recognising the damage some with severe mental illnesses can inflict isn't the same as having a go at all people who have or have had a mental illness.

Sclosages

It is reported she had some 'psychological' issues?
http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/crime/dublin-child-death-mum-quizzed-4451242

Gael23

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/woman-to-appear-in-court-over-toddler-death-645763.html

Means Of Escape

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It isn't, and there is no mention of mental illness, disorder or disturbance in any of the media reports on this case.

This is a terrible tragedy for all the people involved, and it doesn't help anyone to engage in speculation before any facts of the case are known.

No such thing as evil
Define it.
Mental illness is at the core of this tragic case and all infanticide cases.

murphm45

Sorry a bit if a daft question. Any media coverage states that a woman has be taken into custody/charged /arrested etc but there's no mention of any relationship between the boy and the woman. Is that standard? The reason I ask I that most people, myself included, assume this is the mother but there's nothing official (from what I can see anyway) to suggest this is the case.

Gael23

murphm45 wrote: »

Sorry a bit if a daft question. Any media coverage states that a woman has be taken into custody/charged /arrested etc but there's no mention of any relationship between the boy and the woman. Is that standard? The reason I ask I that most people, myself included, assume this is the mother but there's nothing official (from what I can see anyway) to suggest this is the case.

Suppose theres not but its one of these things where you can put two and two together and take it that it is

BMJD

murphm45 wrote: »

Sorry a bit if a daft question. Any media coverage states that a woman has be taken into custody/charged /arrested etc but there's no mention of any relationship between the boy and the woman. Is that standard? The reason I ask I that most people, myself included, assume this is the mother but there's nothing official (from what I can see anyway) to suggest this is the case.

The mother has been charged according to rte.ie

purplecow1977

Scissors apparently found at the scene.

How awful :-( :-(

I am very sorry I clicked on this http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mum-arrested-after-two-year-old-son-4453797

Sensationalist muck as always.

RIP little man.

murphm45

BMJD wrote: »

The mother has been charged according to rte.ie

Sorry I didn't spot that thanks.

KERSPLAT!

MOD

As this case is now before the courts, we are prohibited from allowing further discussion

-KERSPLAT!