Another Anti Crime page setup gone downhill

spookwoman

Anyone following the "Waterford Against Street Crime and Organised Begging page" page that was created today looks like its heading the way of previous ones. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Waterford-Against-Street-Crime-and-Organised-Begging/324044391113543 Posting pictures of people and what they possibly get up to including ref to a possible rape. The tone dropped pretty quickly and every 2nd post has scum f*ckers etc in it.
The header picture seems belongs to someone called Brian aka pure1942, found it on Virtual Tourist.

Goat the dote

I've seen a couple of these pages. Do they actually go up to these people and take their photo?

greenspurs

brave man taking photos of them !

Jambo

Wasn't there another one recently specifically targeting the roma ?

spookwoman

Jambo wrote: »

Wasn't there another one recently specifically targeting the roma ?

think there was, know a few of these anti crime pages start turning into vigilante type pages and the mob come out in force, like the football hooligans. Can imagine they have their own special language using grunt, scratching their privates and farting for communication among themselves.

cookie.monster

this has to be highlighted and people need to know what these scumbags look like so as to be aware while in town, as not every body knows who these thugs are that are robbing,beating, pickpocketing and organised begging on our streets!!!

BuffyBot

I've yet to see one if these pages turn into anything good..

endacl

BuffyBot wrote: »

I've yet to see one if these pages turn into anything good..

B-b-b-but if lots of people like it? Surely crime will stop? Has Kony taught us nothing?

Post this as your status if you ever liked a page, or if you know somebody who likes pages.

Share if you care.

Fate Amenable To Change

spookwoman wrote: »

think there was, know a few of these anti crime pages start turning into vigilante type pages and the mob come out in force, like the football hooligans. Can imagine they have their own special language using grunt, scratching their privates and farting for communication among themselves.

Yep, everything is perfect now and we don't need a change in approach... I like you're impication if you try and communicate anything through facebook about somebody getting the **** kicked out of them you're an animal.... hhahaaha great analogy/implication, you're a proffesional comedian/clown I'm assuming

The Bowling Alley

The only thing more annoying than racism is the politically correct keyboard warriors who think everyone is a racist.

The fact is, there is a crime gang operating in the city under the protection of people's fears of being called racist.

One girl I work with was always defending them, saying its just just a small monority etc- then they stole her new iphone. She's a changed woman now

cookie.monster

The Bowling Alley wrote: »

The only thing more annoying than racism is the politically correct keyboard warriors who think everyone is a racist.

The fact is, there is a crime gang operating in the city under the protection of people's fears of being called racist.

One girl I work with was always defending them, saying its just just a small monority etc- then they stole her new iphone. She's a changed woman now

i hate these bubble wrapped do-gooders who have blinkers on with regards what goes on in our city and when its highlighted the racism card is held up, nice to hear she got a slap of reality, there's a few more on here and on facebook that need that wake up call also!!!

spookwoman

Keyboard warriors is right when every 2nd word is scum and i'll kick their heads in, lalala. Posting lets going down on Saturday and teach them a lesson could be seen as inciting violence Do you know what defamation is? http://www.defamationireland.com Posting pictures with statements like he tried to rape someone when there is no convictions could get the poster and page into a lot of trouble. There are ways of communicating whats going on in the city without lowering the page to thuggery, which is what you are warning people against.
Cookie Monster where did I say anything about the race, please do tell cause you are the one bringing race into it not me.

cookie.monster

spookwoman wrote: »

.
Cookie Monster where did I say anything about the race, please do tell cause you are the one bringing race into it not me.

i,m just saying in general people pull out the racism card!!!!! when all other people are trying to do is inform the people who walk around with there heads in the clouds thinking there safe and that no harm will come to them

flutered

cookie.monster wrote: »

i hate these bubble wrapped do-gooders who have blinkers on with regards what goes on in our city and when its highlighted the racism card is held up, nice to hear she got a slap of reality, there's a few more on here and on facebook that need that wake up call also!!!

these over proteceed species act the same in every town in our fair land

Fate Amenable To Change

spookwoman wrote: »

Keyboard warriors is right when every 2nd word is scum and i'll kick their heads in, lalala. Posting lets going down on Saturday and teach them a lesson could be seen as inciting violence Do you know what defamation is? http://www.defamationireland.com Posting pictures with statements like he tried to rape someone when there is no convictions could get the poster and page into a lot of trouble. There are ways of communicating whats going on in the city without lowering the page to thuggery, which is what you are warning people against.
Cookie Monster where did I say anything about the race, please do tell cause you are the one bringing race into it not me.

You basically said everyone who joins a page against crime against Waterford is an ape and only able to communicate using animal like gestures... obviously some people are upset with people they know being attacked, buying a box of tissues and having a good cry about it won't fix that.

If there is a person going around beating up and robbing people why shouldn't they "have their head kicked in", wouldn't be my solution but its not exactly unfair.

Totally Tropical

Like it or not there are members of a protected community who are robbing and attacking people in the Mannor Street area of the city.You can pull down as many facebook pages as you like and get as many threads as you can on here about the matter deleted but it doesn't change the facts of the situation.We have law's in this country and they apply to everyone.The News and Star are reporting on it as well.Will the liberal do gooders be taking a legal injunction out against that paper now!

http://www.waterford-news.ie/2014/10/07/violent-alley-attacks/

7upfree

Totally Tropical wrote: »

Like it or not there are members of a protected community who are robbing and attacking people in the Mannor Street area of the city.You can pull down as many facebook pages as you like and get as many threads as you can on here about the matter deleted but it doesn't change the facts of the situation.We have law's in this country and they apply to everyone.The News and Star are reporting on it as well.Will the liberal do gooders be taking a legal injunction out against that paper now!

http://www.waterford-news.ie/2014/10/07/violent-alley-attacks/

Ah, the liberals. You won't see any of them volunteering to live next door to these people though.

mooseknunkle

Totally Tropical wrote: »

Like it or not there are members of a protected community who are robbing and attacking people in the Mannor Street area of the city.You can pull down as many facebook pages as you like and get as many threads as you can on here about the matter deleted but it doesn't change the facts of the situation.We have law's in this country and they apply to everyone.The News and Star are reporting on it as well.Will the liberal do gooders be taking a legal injunction out against that paper now!

http://www.waterford-news.ie/2014/10/07/violent-alley-attacks/

The Sunday world had an article about it in todays paper too

BuffyBot

cookie.monster wrote: »

i,m just saying in general people pull out the racism card!!!!! when all other people are trying to do is inform the people who walk around with there heads in the clouds thinking there safe and that no harm will come to them

"Inform"?

The posters in said groups (and trust me, I've seen many in my non-boards life and I've looked at this one too before commenting) are about as informative as looking in my bin.

Would the majority of them be capable of holding a reasoned debate or discussion on the topics at hand, these groups might serve a function. However they are mostly filled with reactionary generalisations and ill informed crud.

endacl

7upfree wrote: »

Ah, the liberals.

Which side of the Atlantic are you posting from?

:rolleyes:

7upfree

endacl wrote: »

Which side of the Atlantic are you posting from?

:rolleyes:

The one where realists - not dreamers - actually realise what's going on around them.:rolleyes:

7upfree

BuffyBot wrote: »

"Inform"?

The posters in said groups (and trust me, I've seen many in my non-boards life and I've looked at this one too before commenting) are about as informative as looking in my bin.

Would the majority of them be capable of holding a reasoned debate or discussion on the topics at hand, these groups might serve a function. However they are mostly filled with reactionary generalisations and ill informed crud.

Do you look down upon EVERYONE like this? Or just the ones you don't agree with?

Are some of the comments on that page crude and ill-thought out? Definitely.

But people are fast becoming sick of the inaction by the authorities on what's happening in the City. And want something done about it. Now.

Tell me this - how far has "reasoned debate" (dressed up in most instances as excusing the behaviour of scumbags) actually gotten us? Seriously?

Totally Tropical

BuffyBot wrote: »

"Inform"?

The posters in said groups (and trust me, I've seen many in my non-boards life and I've looked at this one too before commenting) are about as informative as looking in my bin.

Would the majority of them be capable of holding a reasoned debate or discussion on the topics at hand, these groups might serve a function. However they are mostly filled with reactionary generalisations and ill informed crud.

I have to say that's a nice debating strategy you have just portray anyone who doesn't agree with you as an reactionary idiot who speak ill informed crud.;) Of course some people are going over the top with some comments but that doesn't change the fact that we have members of a certain ethnic minority who have been responsible for a spate of violent robberies and attacks in an area just off Waterford city centre.Just because some idiotic people are spouting racist comments on Facebook doesn't make that situation okay.Of course you have local thugs as well but the issue here is that this violent gang has been given free reign to do as they please.The guards don't want to know about it and the victims of attacks by this gang have been intimidated into silence by people who will brand them as racists.But this issue is not going away.As long as these violent attacks keep happening then it will continue to be highlighted until this gang are bought to justice and held accountable to the law.

Cabaal

7upfree wrote: »

But people are fast becoming sick of the inaction by the authorities on what's happening in the City. And want something done about it. Now.

Tell me this - how far has "reasoned debate" (dressed up in most instances as excusing the behaviour of scumbags) actually gotten us? Seriously?

So you think mob mentality over reasoned, logical debate is better?


You also think mob mentality should replace our legal/policing system?


Last time I checked we have a legal system, its not Joe Soaps job on the street to decide if somebody is guilty of a crime. Thats the job of our legal system.

If somebody has evidence of other people committing a crime then present it to the Gardai, if they don't they ranting, slandering people and/or advocating violence against them or their property on the internet is not the way to go.

I'm surprised at you 7upfree, you have complained countless times about "unethical" behavior of people in goverment/goverment party's over the years but yet you appear to be happy for people to just ignore the laws of this land and do what "they believe is right" to get "justice".
You expect politicians to keep within the law yet you appear fine with Joe Soap on the street doing what they want when it comes to the law.

7upfree

Cabaal wrote: »

So you think mob mentality over reasoned, logical debate is better?


You also think mob mentality should replace our legal/policing system?


Last time I checked we have a legal system, its not Joe Soaps job on the street to decide if somebody is guilty of a crime. Thats the job of our legal system.

If somebody has evidence of other people committing a crime then present it to the Gardai, if they don't they ranting, slandering people and/or advocating violence against them or their property on the internet is not the way to go.

I'm surprised at you 7upfree, you have complained countless times about "unethical" behavior of people in goverment/goverment party's over the years but yet you appear to be happy for people to just ignore the laws of this land and do what "they believe is right" to get "justice".
You expect politicians to keep within the law yet you appear fine with Joe Soap on the street doing what they want when it comes to the law.

No. If you read my post again you will see - clearly - that I cautioned that people want the authorities to do something. And now.

No amount of "talking" or "reasoned debate" will solve this.

Substantial action is required by the authorities. Now.

If they were doing their job pages like that one wouldn't even exist.

Also - how do you proposed "reasoned debate" with five scumbags who kicked in that young musician's head at Closegate? And who seem to think that this is normal behaviour - particularly in their land of origin.

And as for politicians keeping within the law? Lol! They may stay within the laws of the land - but the majority are morally corrupt.

Fate Amenable To Change

BuffyBot wrote: »

"Inform"?

The posters in said groups (and trust me, I've seen many in my non-boards life and I've looked at this one too before commenting) are about as informative as looking in my bin.

Would the majority of them be capable of holding a reasoned debate or discussion on the topics at hand, these groups might serve a function. However they are mostly filled with reactionary generalisations and ill informed crud.

And if you knew someone who was attacked would you disbelieve them/accuse them of spouting "ill informed crud"?

cookie.monster

BuffyBot wrote: »

"Inform"?

The posters in said groups (and trust me, I've seen many in my non-boards life and I've looked at this one too before commenting) are about as informative as looking in my bin.

Would the majority of them be capable of holding a reasoned debate or discussion on the topics at hand, these groups might serve a function. However they are mostly filled with reactionary generalisations and ill informed crud.

so hold on now if these thugs were to set upon you would you say "hey lets have a reasoned debate here" think not my friend, the only thing they know is violence and in turn have to be met with the same resistance back or your up ****e creek without a paddle, so yes educating people with you to watch out for is the way to go, i know who they are and what there about but there is still people out there that don't perfect example is that poor musician that got the ****e kicked outta him, i'm sure if he was educated about these thugs then it may not have happened???

The Bowling Alley

Cabaal wrote: »

So you think mob mentality over reasoned, logical debate is better?


You also think mob mentality should replace our legal/policing system?


Last time I checked we have a legal system, its not Joe Soaps job on the street to decide if somebody is guilty of a crime. Thats the job of our legal system.

If somebody has evidence of other people committing a crime then present it to the Gardai, if they don't they ranting, slandering people and/or advocating violence against them or their property on the internet is not the way to go.

I'm surprised at you 7upfree, you have complained countless times about "unethical" behavior of people in goverment/goverment party's over the years but yet you appear to be happy for people to just ignore the laws of this land and do what "they believe is right" to get "justice".
You expect politicians to keep within the law yet you appear fine with Joe Soap on the street doing what they want when it comes to the law.

All of this is true, in theory.

I'm not advocating mob mentality, but what is needed is a review of our justice system and more gardai on the street.

Court cases are constantly adjourned meaning criminals are constantly being released so they can commit more crimes and the solicitors can have more days in court and more tax payer's money in their bank accounts.

I read in the paper recently, not sure if it was a local or a national, that one of the roma gypsies was fined €750 for robbing a phone. Where do we think they can come up with that money? By robbing it. Or more likely, they won't pay it and will just spend a day or so in jail.

As for the guards...a bar man told me recently that someone attacked him with a knife in the pub - they rang the guards and they said they wouldn't have someone down for a couple of hours. Meanwhile the fella that attacked him was still in the pub.

People have a good reason to be worried about the justice system in this country, and even more reason to be worried about the fact that the Gardai are not up to much at the moment.

obezyana

The Bowling Alley wrote: »

All of this is true, in theory.

I'm not advocating mob mentality, but what is needed is a review of our justice system and more gardai on the street.

Court cases are constantly adjourned meaning criminals are constantly being released so they can commit more crimes and the solicitors can have more days in court and more tax payer's money in their bank accounts.

I read in the paper recently, not sure if it was a local or a national, that one of the roma gypsies was fined €750 for robbing a phone. Where do we think they can come up with that money? By robbing it. Or more likely, they won't pay it and will just spend a day or so in jail.

As for the guards...a bar man told me recently that someone attacked him with a knife in the pub - they rang the guards and they said they wouldn't have someone down for a couple of hours. Meanwhile the fella that attacked him was still in the pub.

People have a good reason to be worried about the justice system in this country, and even more reason to be worried about the fact that the Gardai are not up to much at the moment.

Ah now give em some credit they are busy doing L drivers and people who avoid paying the extortionate motor tax rates

Fate Amenable To Change

The Bowling Alley wrote: »

I'm not advocating mob mentality, but what is needed is a review of our justice system and more gardai on the street.

Court cases are constantly adjourned meaning criminals are constantly being released so they can commit more crimes and the solicitors can have more days in court and more tax payer's money in their bank accounts.

This is it, I wouldn't blame the Gardai as a group. They are seriously understaffed due to cutbacks and recruitment freezes. Whoever is making decisions seem to decide that minor misdemeanors are the problem. When they out a case together against someone its a suspended sentence . Just last week someone who ahd a suspended sentence for assault got caught red-handed with 18k worth of drugs and was lef toff with a wanring... this was a massive operation taking up loads of Garda hours.

Potential-Monke

I sometimes feel like i'm repeating myself with these threads...

Most people know who this gang are, and while it is admirable to set up these pages to inform others, it walks a very fine line with regards to the legality of it. It would be great if everyone who commits a crime could be named and shamed, and that can be done but only if that person has been convicted of the crime. Until convicted, in this country, a person is presumed innocent. Otherwise there is nothing stopping anyone from accusing anyone else of being a criminal. So in order to name and shame someone on these pages, pictures should be accompanied by court outcomes/media reports of the person being convicted of a specific crime, and not just put up stating that this person is involved in x, y or z without legal proof.

Then we have people who report crimes to the Gardaí, but are not willing to make a statement and go to court. 99% of cases require the injured party to make a statement and be willing to go to court to testify against the accused. People don't realise that, or are unwilling to do that because of whatever reason. You could say that CCTV would show it, and it would if caught on CCTV, but it's not possible to get a conviction, even with CCTV, unless there's an injured party willing to testify.

And those that are willing can also be left frustrated because there may not be enough evidence to get a prosecution. It's extremely hard to get a successful prosecution these days, even with CCTV evidence. The laws are on the side of the criminals, and even the best Garda can be caught out by a loophole which may never have come to light before. The Gardaí are struggling with fewer numbers and an increased workload with little to no time to follow up. It's not like TV where they go to one call and spend a week dealing with it. They could have to attend 15+ calls in their shift, and that's repeated every day.

Then you have the judiciary who obviously live in a completely different world to everyone else, because nothing else can explain the sentences they give out. The most recent example is this, where a man with 71 previous convictions was caught throwing rocks, bottles and bins on fire at Gardaí during the Queens visit, and the judge gives him a suspended 2 1/2 year sentence!

As for the people on about L-Drivers and other non-serious crime, thats part and parcel of the job. There's a traffic corp whose sole function is road traffic related crime. That's why people are being done for minor offences, because that is the traffic corps job. I'll never understand why people can't accept that. You could say that these members should be redeployed back to the regular units to investigate "more serious" crimes, but then the roads in Ireland would be some of the most dangerous to drive on, because people will know that there's no traffic corp to stop them driving dangerously, or breaking any of the other numerous road traffic legislation.

And they're not collecting for the government. It wouldn't bother a Garda if someone who broke a red light got a fine or an appearance in court. The fines are there to stop people having convictions, and to free up Garda and court time. I'm also pretty sure that most people would prefer an €80 fine over having to potentially take a day off work to appear in court and face a higher fine or their licence taken away.