Another Anti Crime page setup gone downhill

giles lynchwood

Dear Potential- Monkey. An Garda Siochana are a disgrace and are full of people who are waiting for their pension. It has been one scandal after another, if they are not fiddling the overtime book (they still sign themselves in and out)they are conning motorists out of money under false pretence, Garda Mark Eagan, who by the way was brought to the attention of Waterford Gardai While working as a bar man, he was waiting to start training for An Garda Siochana look how that ended. or trying to frame some innocent person Ian Bailey for a crime so serious it would have resulted in a innocent person being imprisioned for life,without a second thought for him or his family,and now this person has started a civil action against the state which will result in a massive compension payout funded by us the taxpayer but the Garda involved will still get their pension. These are facts, hard facts and just the tip of the iceberg.
Marches are sucessful all over europe and its about time Paddy stood up and be counted.
Lynchwood

The Bowling Alley

Say what you like about the recent protests but they did the job...

Wanderer2010

DubVelo wrote: »

Thieving scumbags treat them as a joke, and sure if you're from a well-off family, GAA etc you can buy your way out of being a thug.

I dont know, is this still true in 2014? That because you play a bit of GAA you can walk free from crime? I would like to see evidence of any recent cases to support this...

Yes, in recent times we have had certain managers giving character references to good aul Paddy who was just having a bad day as his team lost so he broke someones nose and his Daddy is the chairman of the local club. I think this is starting to fade away though.

Potential-Monke

7upfree wrote: »

My friend, I had the highest of respect for An Garda Síochána, until they showed up in their baseball hats at Railway Square. It quickly evaporated once I saw video evidence of that.

Yes, they showed up, because the "peaceful" protest was anything but. I understand the reason for the protest, but there was nothing peaceful about it. A door was smashed in, and windows broken. That's not peaceful, and that's why the Gardaí were there, because the rent-a-crowd proved that they cannot control themselves. And then, on the Saturday (i was there) you could physically feel the unease there, and if the Gardaí had not been there, more damage would have been caused, except this time to neighbours houses - even after one person being brought into the suspect house, the rent-a-crowd starting saying they were in other neighbouring houses, when they weren't. Also, the front 30 or so were also criminals, those you see in the courts every week or assaulting people for no reason on Friday/Saturday nights. Those same people were also in the crowd drinking, never a good combination. And the Gardaí followed them to Catherine St, so nothing would happen. And finally, a group went to McDermot Road, and without the Gardaí present, a cars windows were smashed. What does that say? So if the Gardaí were not there, God knows what would have happened.

giles lynchwood wrote: »

Dear Potential- Monkey. An Garda Siochana are a disgrace and are full of people who are waiting for their pension. It has been one scandal after another, if they are not fiddling the overtime book (they still sign themselves in and out)they are conning motorists out of money under false pretence, Garda Mark Eagan, who by the way was brought to the attention of Waterford Gardai While working as a bar man, he was waiting to start training for An Garda Siochana look how that ended. or trying to frame some innocent person Ian Bailey for a crime so serious it would have resulted in a innocent person being imprisioned for life,without a second thought for him or his family,and now this person has started a civil action against the state which will result in a massive compension payout funded by us the taxpayer but the Garda involved will still get their pension. These are facts, hard facts and just the tip of the iceberg.

I love this "tip of the iceberg" debate. If that's the tip, what's the bottom of it, where this country is being ruined by Garda corruption? Look, you quoted 2 cases, which were wrong but were dealt with by the courts. Every day, thousands of people are arrested, fined, etc. Now, with GSOC there is an avenue for people to make complaints. And their recent report shows that 4,278 complaints were made, only 23 were referred to the DPP (not an indication of guilt), and 100 were dealt with by discipline (extremely minor incidents, such as rude to someone). Check out that link, gives a lovely graph on how the other 4,040 incidents were dealt with. So, if we be nice and take it that those 23 may be guilty of something, that's 123 upheld complaints out of 4,278. That's 2.8% of complaints. Taking out the local discipline ones (which really are slap on the wrist complaints), that means that potentially 0.5% of complaints may be serious. Not a massive figure if you ask me. And clearly indicative of the lack of this corruption and "widespread abuse" that's apparently going on.

giles lynchwood wrote: »

Marches are sucessful all over europe and its about time Paddy stood up and be counted.

I'm all for peaceful protests, the recent national Irish Water ones worked brilliantly, but weren't marred by unnecessary violence or damage. That was the difference. This local protest would have had more following if no damage had occurred, and people walking by it, with no interest in it, didn't feel frightened. That's the difference. Peaceful protests don't intimidate anyone, be it the people the protest is aimed at, or the people just walking by.

So, don't be blaming the entire force for the misdeeds of the few. Guaranteed the majority of Gardaí at those protests don't want to be there. They have previous time to get their investigations done, and with lesser numbers and no support. It's the judicial system that's wrong, not the majority of the Gardaí. The Gardaí literally put their lives on the line every day, and don't have support from the Government or the Judiciary, as can be seen here:

Man stabs Garda 16 times in hand with key and doesn't get jail
Man avoids jail after throwing rocks, bottles and a wheelie bin on fire at Gardaí
Men who attacked off-duty Garda couple, for being Gardaí, were set to avoid jail
And they did avoid jail
Garda left with severe, permanent injuries gets justice with community service order

And all this while using vehicles not fit for purpose, less members on the ground and increased work loads. And finally, being blamed for everything, including the whole Irish Water debacle. Very few would do the job, and those 100 coming out of Templemore next year really don't know what they're in for. I feel sorry for them. I can't think of any other job where everyone gets tarred with the same brush, regardless of the evidence to the contrary.

7upfree

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Yes, they showed up, because the "peaceful" protest was anything but. I understand the reason for the protest, but there was nothing peaceful about it. A door was smashed in, and windows broken. That's not peaceful, and that's why the Gardaí were there, because the rent-a-crowd proved that they cannot control themselves. And then, on the Saturday (i was there) you could physically feel the unease there, and if the Gardaí had not been there, more damage would have been caused, except this time to neighbours houses - even after one person being brought into the suspect house, the rent-a-crowd starting saying they were in other neighbouring houses, when they weren't. Also, the front 30 or so were also criminals, those you see in the courts every week or assaulting people for no reason on Friday/Saturday nights. Those same people were also in the crowd drinking, never a good combination. And the Gardaí followed them to Catherine St, so nothing would happen. And finally, a group went to McDermot Road, and without the Gardaí present, a cars windows were smashed. What does that say? So if the Gardaí were not there, God knows what would have happened.

As The Bowling Alley said above, that protest (ill advised though it seemed) achieved more in two nights than the Judicial system and the Gardaí achieved in two years.

Reality.

You can't disagree with the result.

Potential-Monke

7upfree wrote: »

As The Bowling Alley said above, that protest (ill advised though it seemed) achieved more in two nights than the Judicial system and the Gardaí achieved in two years.

Reality.

You can't disagree with the result.

I can disagree with it. It has set a dangerous precedent. Lets say, for example, a girl gets sexually assaulted tonight. The suspect is arrested and interviewed, and released pending directions from the DPP. Everyone eventually finds out who it is, because it's a small enough city. Then, there's a protest outside his house in order to get him out of the city. Windows are smashed and it could escalate to his family getting hurt.

This is the precedent that has been set. It is now in the minds of people that vigilantism works, but it's wrong, it's not lawful, and the innocent always end up getting hurt. Regardless of the results it's after getting, it's the wrong way about it.

MRnotlob606

I see this has been turned into an attack on the gardai by some people.

Finnbar01

Potential-Monke wrote: »

It should, but again, Judges decision. It doesn't happen that often, and it would want to be a fairly serious offence to have been committed while on bail for a suspended sentence to kick in. It's crazy, but it's all down to politics, money and lack of prisons/spaces in prisons.

Out of interest, do you know how much money is spent each year on free legal aid?

Potential-Monke

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Out of interest, do you know how much money is spent each year on free legal aid?

According to this article, it was €47.78 million in 2013, but i think that includes salaries.

7upfree

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I can disagree with it. It has set a dangerous precedent. Lets say, for example, a girl gets sexually assaulted tonight. The suspect is arrested and interviewed, and released pending directions from the DPP. Everyone eventually finds out who it is, because it's a small enough city. Then, there's a protest outside his house in order to get him out of the city. Windows are smashed and it could escalate to his family getting hurt.

This is the precedent that has been set. It is now in the minds of people that vigilantism works, but it's wrong, it's not lawful, and the innocent always end up getting hurt. Regardless of the results it's after getting, it's the wrong way about it.

Not lawful? Are you having a laugh? What does "lawful" even mean anymore? The Gardaí stood by while farmers picketed meat plants - preventing people from going to work - yet protect the Sierra employees doing water meter installations?

Lawful. Yeah.

As I said, the protest did more in two days than happened in the previous two years. You can disagree all you want - but this is reality.

7upfree

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

I see this has been turned into an attack on the gardai by some people.

As opposed to the attacks on Waterford people in the past two weeks? With people who attended protests being labelled as "racists" or "dissidents"?

Potential-Monke

7upfree wrote: »

Not lawful? Are you having a laugh? What does "lawful" even mean anymore? The Gardaí stood by while farmers picketed meat plants - preventing people from going to work - yet protect the Sierra employees doing water meter installations?

Lawful. Yeah.

You know why? Because that protest was peaceful. Yes, people were blocked from getting to work, but that was the extent of it. There was no attacks on the workers, there were no threats to the workers, there was no need for a large Garda presence because it wasn't necessary. That's how peaceful protests work, they get the message across without resorting to violence.

The protests in Waterford were anything but peaceful, which is evident by the abuse you can hear in videos, and by the fact that damage was caused to property. That's the difference, that's why what happened here was wrong. If the protests in Waterford were the same peaceful ones that happened in your example, than there would not have been Gardaí needed. Simple fact was that the protest in Waterford had a criminal element to it, again evidenced by anyone who frequents court and sees the same faces there the whole time, those same faces who were the front line of these protests.

And i'm extremely confident that if the workers who were prevented working in the meat protests made a complaint to Gardaí, something would have been done. As far as i can tell, there was no trouble, so there must have been no complaint, or it was sorted internally, between both parties. That's how peaceful protests work.

7upfree wrote: »

As I said, the protest did more in two days than happened in the previous two years. You can disagree all you want - but this is reality.

And that, in itself, if proof enough that people are already of the mind frame that this kind of action is positive for this city. Why aren't the same protesters outside certain, extremely well known criminal families? They have done much more damage to this city than the Romas, who were easy targets. I'm not defending the Romas, but they were targeted because quite a lot of those in the protests wouldn't have the balls to protest outside those houses, or because they have ties to those families.

These protests may have done more than the law can, but it's the wrong way, regardless of what reasons you have to justify the outcome.

7upfree

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Yes, people were blocked from getting to work, but that was the extent of it.

Just read what you posted. Again.

Potential-Monke wrote: »

These protests may have done more than the law can, but it's the wrong way, regardless of what reasons you have to justify the outcome.

Whether or not it was peaceful, you would still have the same clowns and idiot politicians crying "racism". The only justification needed is that the City Centre is now a safer place. Reality. Again.

Its Only Ray Parlour

7upfree wrote: »

The only justification needed is that the City Centre is now a safer place. Reality. Again.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Although I don't live there, I'm a member of the Waterford Against Street Crime and Organised Begging Facebook page and there are reports of them returning.

It's ridiculous that this became an issue of racism. I just don't know how racism negates the fact that old and young people have been mugged by members of an ethnic group, most of whom are notorious for not living an honest lifestyle.

7upfree

Its Only Ray Parlour wrote: »

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Although I don't live there, I'm a member of the Waterford Against Street Crime and Organised Begging Facebook page and there are reports of them returning.

It's ridiculous that this became an issue of racism. I just don't know how racism negates the fact that old and young people have been mugged by members of an ethnic group, most of whom are notorious for not living an honest lifestyle.

"Racism" appears to cover a multitude of excusing the behaviour of some people nowadays.

JohnC.

It's interesting to see all the same people seeking justice by protesting outside the homes of those responsible for petrol bombing children. Oh wait, they aren't. Funny that. Easier to protest against the Roma I suppose. Justice mobs have their limits after all.

dark crystal

Kahless wrote: »

It's interesting to see all the same people seeking justice by protesting outside the homes of those responsible for petrol bombing children. Oh wait, they aren't. Funny that. Easier to protest against the Roma I suppose. Justice mobs have their limits after all.

Didn't the suspected petrol bomber get taken into police custody for that incident?

BlaasForRafa

dark crystal wrote: »

Didn't the suspected petrol bomber get taken into police custody for that incident?

Indeed, but SJW's don't let the facts get in the way of a burst of righteous outrage.

JohnC.

A person did, but then you hear everyone talking about how there's a particular family behind that, not just that person taken in who they apparently had doing their dirty work, and many other incidents and something should be done because <insert the same stuff that's said about the courts doing nothing about the Roma also doing nothing about this family>. It seems people would like both families gone, but only one of them is targeted by the mob.

And of course anyone who point out the discrepancy is called names instead of the weird discrepancy being addressed. Some people really eager to avoid the issue.

The Bowling Alley

Kahless wrote: »

A person did, but then you hear everyone talking about how there's a particular family behind that, not just that person taken in who they apparently had doing their dirty work, and many other incidents and something should be done because <insert the same stuff that's said about the courts doing nothing about the Roma also doing nothing about this family>. It seems people would like both families gone, but only one of them is targeted by the mob.

And of course anyone who point out the discrepancy is called names instead of the weird discrepancy being addressed. Some people really eager to avoid the issue.

Maybe it has more to do with people being more afraid of one family than they are of the other?

Maybe it has more to do with people being more comfortable protesting in manor street than ballybeg?

Maybe some of the protestors are actually just cowards who fancy their chances against women and young fellas in their twenties than a crime family with proven violent members.

None of these things have anything to do with race.

Digital Society

What the crime situation like around Manor Street and John Street since?

7upfree

Kahless wrote: »

A person did, but then you hear everyone talking about how there's a particular family behind that, not just that person taken in who they apparently had doing their dirty work, and many other incidents and something should be done because <insert the same stuff that's said about the courts doing nothing about the Roma also doing nothing about this family>. It seems people would like both families gone, but only one of them is targeted by the mob.

And of course anyone who point out the discrepancy is called names instead of the weird discrepancy being addressed. Some people really eager to avoid the issue.

The same as people who protest are called "racists"?

jennygirl

Digital Society wrote: »

What the crime situation like around Manor Street and John Street since?

no problems with begging flower selling or assaults --- a better place altogether! sorry if u think im a racist but they are better off out of there

sparkling sea

jennygirl wrote: »

no problems with begging flower selling or assaults --- a better place altogether! sorry if u think im a racist but they are better off out of there

Because they were after all the only beggars and criminals in town, yet I saw a couple of Irish people begging yesterday and crime is still on the rise here - amazing isn't it. But the Roma, thats any Roma are no longer visable, I'd say all Roma are gone into hiding in Waterford.

Digital Society

sparkling sea wrote: »

Because they were after all the only beggars and criminals in town, yet I saw a couple of Irish people begging yesterday and crime is still on the rise here - amazing isn't it. But the Roma, thats any Roma are no longer visable, I'd say all Roma are gone into hiding in Waterford.

It wasnt a march on beggars. It was a march on a bunch of Scumbags living in a house on Manor Street and Terrorising the place.

And by all accounts from people who actually lived there it was a success.

People who dont live there still use the race card.

7upfree

Digital Society wrote: »

It wasnt a march on beggars. It was a march on a bunch of Scumbags living in a house on Manor Street and Terrorising the place.

And by all accounts from people who actually lived there it was a success.

People who dont live there still use the race card.

I would certainly agree. You have to be affected to fully appreciate it.

longshanks

Digital Society wrote: »

It wasnt a march on beggars. It was a march on a bunch of Scumbags living in a house on Manor Street and Terrorising the place.

And by all accounts from people who actually lived there it was a success.

People who dont live there still use the race card.

Why no march on that crowd in Ballybeg then?

Digital Society

longshanks wrote: »

Why no march on that crowd in Ballybeg then?

Are you seriously even asking that? What do you think would happen to the people marching if they march on Travellers?

Seems dumb to even ask.

Also you mean Ardmore Park yes? More proof you know nothing about anything. Nothing going on up in Ballybeg.

Cabaal

Digital Society wrote: »

Are you seriously even asking that? What do you think would happen to the people marching if they march on Travellers?.

So people just protest the easy targets then? I thought this was about stopping crime and improving the city?

This is less about crime and more about people singling out a small group of outsiders to blame the city's troubles on,

Suppose it's handy to tar a group of outsiders with the same brush and blame all the problems on them, no need to wait for the gardai and justice system to do its job.

longshanks

Digital Society wrote: »

Are you seriously even asking that? What do you think would happen to the people marching if they march on Travellers?

Seems dumb to even ask.

Also you mean Ardmore Park yes? More proof you know nothing about anything. Nothing going on up in Ballybeg.

Pathetic reply. That crowd in Ballybeg have been a lot worse for Waterford than any of the Roma ever were.