International or Club football?

doncarlos

Club for me. It's like an international match buzz every week. Meeting friends & family and drinking in the club bar or meeting up at an away game and then cheering on a side that represents you and where you come from. I actually pity people who support foreign clubs as they will never have or experience what I have.

Iang87

Iang87 wrote: »

I'd take liverpool...doing well more than Ireland. Maybe i'd care more if I didnt despise th FAI as an organisation.

If your support fluctuates depending on the organisation behind the team, what about when Liverpool was owned by Hicks and Gillett?

Mars Bar

Mars Bar wrote: »

Personally, I get more satisfaction out of Manchester United than Ireland.

Like many Irish people.

The fact that they are enormously successful helps, surely?

At the very least it must have helped in deciding who to select anyway?

PhlegmyMoses

doncarlos wrote: »

Club for me. It's like an international match buzz every week. Meeting friends & family and drinking in the club bar or meeting up at an away game and then cheering on a side that represents you and where you come from. I actually pity people who support foreign clubs as they will never have or experience what I have.

Jaysus. I enjoy an LOI game as much as the next man but it's not some sort of spiritual experience that elicits pity for the unbelievers. That sounds like something a religious fundamentalis would say.

You're watching a football match for **** sake.

On topic, I thjnk I enjoy both equally. I've always loved international football and watch as many matches as I can when a round of staggered fixtures comes up.

roryc

Country for me. I supported Man United when I was younger simply because my brothers and dad did. Lost interest as I got older through not really having any affiliation with Manchester or the club itself. Wouldn't hold it against and Irish fans that do though, the PL is on TV more than Irish football and the games are easy to get to. Irish fans have more reason to support an English club than any other country imo, and fans fly from all over the world to attend PL games. Never really got into the LOI scene but I would put this down to the people I grew up with. Had they been big Rovers or Bohs fans I'm sure I would have joined.

Assume I'll be in the minority here but there's no feeling like Ireland qualifying for a major tournament. Poster above saying he would prefer 3 points from his club over Ireland going to a WC Finals is baffling. One thing I have noticed though - even though club would still win over country in Ireland we still support them more than most. I've lived around English people (in Gibraltar) for the last 4/5 years and few of them are that bothered about England. Sure they'll gear themselves up for the Euros or World Cup but little effort is made for friendlies and qualifying matches. Perhaps they simply assume they will qualify for the finals whereas for us its always an achievement in itself.

Iang87

doncarlos wrote: »

Club for me. It's like an international match buzz every week. Meeting friends & family and drinking in the club bar or meeting up at an away game and then cheering on a side that represents you and where you come from. I actually pity people who support foreign clubs as they will never have or experience what I have.

So I'm born in Castlebar and only love soccer. Who do I support by way of a senior team or do I only get to support a team passionately when Ireland play.

Try not be so closed minded in pitying everyone. As I said not everyone grows up with senior club on their door

Mars Bar

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Like many Irish people.

The fact that they are enormously successful helps, surely?

At the very least it must have helped in deciding who to select anyway?

I was 6 and fancied David Beckham! That's how I started following United.

I just can't understand how it upsets people so much?

GLaDOS

Club's the bread and butter, love to see Ireland do well obviously, but more emotionally invested in Bohs.

iDave

Iang87 wrote: »

So I'm born in Castlebar and only love soccer. Who do I support by way of a senior team or do I only get to support a team passionately when Ireland play.

Try not be so closed minded in pitying everyone. As I said not everyone grows up with senior club on their door

Whats wrong with Galway or Sligo Rovers?

Mars Bar

Mars Bar wrote: »

I was 6 and fancied David Beckham! That's how I started following United.

I just can't understand how it upsets people so much?

I don't think following ManU upsets many. This is an Irish football forum, they wouldn't last long if they got upset by people following ManU!

I think what some, like me, find baffling, is putting a team you picked for some random reason (it may not have been their enormous success, or even cos all your friends supported them) ahead of where you were born in your affinity.

It's not supporting ManU or Liverpool or whoever at all, it is preferring to see them do well rather than Ireland. Again, it doesn't upset me...I just don't understand it.

And Beckham wasn't all that good looking!

Iang87

iDave wrote: »

Whats wrong with Galway or Sligo Rovers?

The person in question is from Castlebar, not from Galway or Sligo. You said represents you and where you're from

I'm from Limerick I wouldnt go down and support Cork. I'm not sure where you're from but I'll guess Dublin, would you support dundalk if no Dublin clubs existed



Just realsied its not you that said it represents you and where you're from. The OP did thats why Galway or Sligo doesnt work

iDave

Iang87 wrote: »

The person in question is from Castlebar, not from Galway or Sligo. You said represents you and where you're from

I'm from Limerick I wouldnt go down and support Cork. I'm not sure where you're from but I'll guess Dublin, would you support dundalk if no Dublin clubs existed

I wasn't having a pop at him in any way. I'm just curious why Irish people think they have no local team to support so decide a team in the UK is more local than a team in the next county.
I'm from Meath actually, we have no team so I support Drogheda in the LOI as it makes the most geographical sense.
I've always supported Man Utd but as per my previous post on this thread I'm wondering more and more why I have invested so much time in a foreign team.

doncarlos

Iang87 wrote: »

So I'm born in Castlebar and only love soccer. Who do I support by way of a senior team or do I only get to support a team passionately when Ireland play.

Try not be so closed minded in pitying everyone. As I said not everyone grows up with senior club on their door

What about the 80% of people that do live with a senior club at their door? What's their excuse?

doncarlos

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Jaysus. I enjoy an LOI game as much as the next man but it's not some sort of spiritual experience that elicits pity for the unbelievers. That sounds like something a religious fundamentalis would say.

You're watching a football match for **** sake.

People call themselves football fans but they're not getting the full football experience of going to a game every week and being truly integrated in to the experience.
Dundalk for example won the league cup a couple of weeks ago and players mingled and got photographs with fans with the trophy in the club bars. This isn't something fans of premier league clubs ever experience.

PhlegmyMoses

doncarlos wrote: »

People call themselves football fans but they're not getting the full football experience of going to a game every week and being truly integrated in to the experience.
Dundalk for example won the league cup a couple of weeks ago and players mingled and got photographs with fans with the trophy in the club bars. This isn't something fans of premier league clubs ever experience.

I get that many LOI fans feel that they are having a more meaningful experience. And in some ways they are, imo. But it's just a different way to enjoy football. The Liverpool or United fan doesn't give a **** whether they get to meet the players or whether they are from the area, so they're not to be pitied. What's meaningful for you may not be for them. Just my take on it.

grumpymunster

I have little or no interest in international sport of any description be it football, rugby whatever.

From a very young age lived close to Chelsea and Brentford grounds and have followed both ever since and would have far more affection for them than the national team. Not that anyone needs a logical reason for following any team in any sport in any country.

Iang87

doncarlos wrote: »

What about the 80% of people that do live with a senior club at their door? What's their excuse?

80% of the population do not have that on their door. Secondly they dont need an excuse. English football is marketed to almost perfection. Billions are spent to make it seem relevant and they do a superb job at it so people buy into the product.

There's also a smaller aspect that some people dont like being told they should have an affiliation to a club. Because you grow up somewhere you shouldnt have to support him. What if the club are a horrible shower who do nothing for the community and are only interested in lining their own pockets. Do you support them because they're close to you.


My point is you cant tell someone they must support based on Geography because theres too many variables that you cant measure. A GAA example being the all ireland hurling final. I'm closer to Tipp but want Kilkenny to win. Your geographical point turned right on its head because we always want to beat our neighbours

iDave wrote: »

I wasn't having a pop at him in any way. I'm just curious why Irish people think they have no local team to support so decide a team in the UK is more local than a team in the next county.
I'm from Meath actually, we have no team so I support Drogheda in the LOI as it makes the most geographical sense.
I've always supported Man Utd but as per my previous post on this thread I'm wondering more and more why I have invested so much time in a foreign team.

Its because you've an ease of access to english football in my view. If you grew up not going to live football and it was never available for you how are you supposed to grow fond of a club and I dont believe Geography is a justifiable enough answer.



I'm not going to bat for the support a foreign side over an irish side. I'd love a reality where the LoI draws 5-10k a week but its a pipe dream and regardless what anyone thinks the current generation of paying football fans who support foreign teams and have no LoI connection wont ever, they shouldn't be ridiculed for it. The focus should be on making the league more attractive and accessible

doncarlos

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

I get that many LOI fans feel that they are having a more meaningful experience. And in some ways they are, imo. But it's just a different way to enjoy football. The Liverpool or United fan doesn't give a **** whether they get to meet the players or whether they are from the area, so they're not to be pitied. What's meaningful for you may not be for them. Just my take on it.

But isn't that what sport is about? Tribalism? The Liverpool or United fan won't have any problem calling each other a scouse or a manc so they obviously associate each other (and themselves) with where the club is located. I do find it odd that somebody can claim they get the full experience of supporting a club when they are based hundreds of miles away.
A match going experience also can't be compared to watching a game on the comfort of your sofa. It's like comparing listening to a CD to seeing a band you love live. Nobody in their right mind would try and say a CD was better

grumpymunster

doncarlos wrote: »

But isn't that what sport is about? Tribalism? The Liverpool or United fan won't have any problem calling each other a scouse or a manc so they obviously associate each other (and themselves) with where the club is located. I do find it odd that somebody can claim they get the full experience of supporting a club when they are based hundreds of miles away.
A match going experience also can't be compared to watching a game on the comfort of your sofa. It's like comparing listening to a CD to seeing a band you love live. Nobody in their right mind would try and say a CD was better

Going to a match can be a great experience or complete and utter boredom, not every game is edge of the seat stuff. I am a Munster season ticket holder and most games are a long way from a thrill a minute, some are downright boring and some are a hell of a buzz.

Bit like watching sport on TV really.

citytillidie

doncarlos wrote: »

But isn't that what sport is about? Tribalism? The Liverpool or United fan won't have any problem calling each other a scouse or a manc so they obviously associate each other (and themselves) with where the club is located. I do find it odd that somebody can claim they get the full experience of supporting a club when they are based hundreds of miles away.
A match going experience also can't be compared to watching a game on the comfort of your sofa. It's like comparing listening to a CD to seeing a band you love live. Nobody in their right mind would try and say a CD was better

What about those fans who go to both games in LOI and Premier league?

I go to Derry City games, and try to make at least 1 Liverpool game a month during the season.

doncarlos

Iang87 wrote: »

80% of the population do not have that on their door.

I'm not buying that. Most of the large urban centres have football teams close by. Dundalk, Drogheda, Dublin, Bray, Wexford, Waterford have most of the East coast sown up. Then you have Cork, Limerick, Galway, Sligo, Athlone Longford. I'd be shocked if 80% of the population wasn't within a 30minute drive of a club.

Iang87 wrote: »

Secondly they dont need an excuse. English football is marketed to almost perfection. Billions are spent to make it seem relevant and they do a superb job at it so people buy into the product.

They don't need an excuse. I have no problem with people supporting a foreign club. Most of my friends do. I do slightly resent people completely dismissing their national league and local sides without giving them a chance.

Iang87 wrote: »

My point is you cant tell someone they must support based on Geography because theres too many variables that you cant measure. A GAA example being the all ireland hurling final. I'm closer to Tipp but want Kilkenny to win. Your geographical point turned right on its head because we always want to beat our neighbours

Ok bringing GAA in to it. Did you say you were from Mayo? If so how would someone from Mayo be viewed if they started supporting Dublin or Kerry in the championship? Would you have an problems with an Irish person supporting a different international side.

doncarlos

citytillidie wrote: »

What about those fans who go to both games in LOI and Premier league?

I go to Derry City games, and try to make at least 1 Liverpool game a month during the season.

I actually answered this in my next post.

doncarlos wrote: »

I have no problem with people supporting a foreign club. Most of my friends do. I do slightly resent people completely dismissing their national league and local sides without giving them a chance.

Shanotheslayer

Supporting a team just for a geological reason to me makes no sense. Why support a team just because you live close to them? I live literally 10minute walk from Bohs and I never supported them. I went to a game before but wasn't for me.

I support my team as I grew up supporting them and it runs in the family that's the connection I have with my team.

I'm club over country myself, but I do love Ireland and obviously want them to do well, but the football is poison and I don't enjoy it that much. I shouldn't have to support a local team just because I live nearby.

Sure they play cricket in phoenix park should I support them as a local team if I enjoy cricket?

Iang87

doncarlos wrote: »

I'm not buying that. Most of the large urban centres have football teams close by. Dundalk, Drogheda, Dublin, Bray, Wexford, Waterford have most of the East coast sown up. Then you have Cork, Limerick, Galway, Sligo, Athlone Longford. I'd be shocked if 80% of the population wasn't within a 30minute drive of a club.


They don't need an excuse. I have no problem with people supporting a foreign club. Most of my friends do. I do slightly resent people completely dismissing their national league and local sides without giving them a chance.



Ok bringing GAA in to it. Did you say you were from Mayo? If so how would someone from Mayo be viewed if they started supporting Dublin or Kerry in the championship? Would you have an problems with an Irish person supporting a different international side.

No i'm not from Mayo my hypothetical made up person was from Mayo. I'm from Limerick.

GAA is based on supporting where you're from. Players only can play for their home county. Thats not the case in soccer so you cant compare the two in that regard.

I dont understand why you'd resent people for not liking something you like. You may be right on the population thing actually when its spelled out like that.

Live football is great and I love it, I like watching the movement and the runs that often times you'd miss on tv but it isnt always great and when its bad you think why do I bother. I suppose you could compare it to golf, you only remember the good shots and I reckon you're only remembering the good shots right now

doncarlos

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

I support my team as I grew up supporting them and it runs in the family that's the connection I have with my team.

If your family supported Scunthorpe or Hartlepool, would you support them?

When I was a kid I supported Liverpool as all my friends did and they were the most successful team at the time. THIS is the reason most people support whatever club they do.

Iang87

doncarlos wrote: »

If your family supported Scunthorpe or Hartlepool, would you support them?

When I was a kid I supported Liverpool as all my friends did and they were the most successful team at the time. THIS is the reason most people support whatever club they do.

I agree completely.

Its not the reason they stay supporting them though. Thats the difference

Shanotheslayer

doncarlos wrote: »

If your family supported Scunthorpe or Hartlepool, would you support them?

When I was a kid I supported Liverpool as all my friends did and they were the most successful team at the time. THIS is the reason most people support whatever club they do.

I sure would.

I support Everton, so really not much difference. Both win fck all :pac:

I guess I'm just not a glory hunter

Will I Amnt

doncarlos wrote: »

If your family supported Scunthorpe or Hartlepool, would you support them?

When I was a kid I supported Liverpool as all my friends did and they were the most successful team at the time. THIS is the reason most people support whatever club they do.

Why do you care?

Always a fun topic

99% of Irish fans of English clubs are glory hunters. Big deal

doncarlos

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Why do you care?

It's a discussion forum. Shanotheslayer replied to one of my posts and I replied to him. Isn't that how these things work?

Why do you care?

Omackeral

doncarlos wrote: »

Ok bringing GAA in to it. Did you say you were from Mayo? If so how would someone from Mayo be viewed if they started supporting Dublin or Kerry in the championship?.

You won't get an answer on this but it fully proves a point. A Louth man supporting Kerry would be called a glory hunter (and possibly a gob****e) but it's the same premise of any of us following Liverpool or United to be honest.

doncarlos

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

I sure would.

I support Everton, so really not much difference. Both win fck all :pac:

I guess I'm just not a glory hunter

Yes but your family were.

I just find it very strange that there are no fans of teams outside the premier league that support them because their family did. Would you honestly have kept supporting Everton if they imploded for some reason and were languishing in the third division for years.

There used to be quite a few Leeds fans in Ireland for example but they seem to have disappeared off the face of the Earth.

Omackeral

Iang87 wrote: »

GAA is based on supporting where you're from. Players only can play for their home county. Thats not the case in soccer so you cant compare the two in that regard.

I can't buy this for a second. So GAA is based on supporting where you're from but soccer isn't? What about international teams? Just because there's movement between clubs doesn't make it so. People from Dundee would generally support Dundee or Dundee Utd. People from Bristol would generally support Bristol City or Bristol Rovers. Its the same right across Europe, the people in the stadiums week in and week out are from the places that their teams are. It's just accepted over here. And it's gas that you never here of any Luton Town fans or Tranmere fans given that London and Liverpool have this massive irish connection.

Omackeral

Lamper.sffc wrote: »

The national side for me. I never understand how an Irish person would prefer an English side over his national side. Baffles me. I support Leeds and have done for over 20 yrs, but if the two teams Ireland and Leeds played then Id want Ireland to win everytime. No question.

That's a fair point but it also shows what the default mindset is for the majority of people in this country. Comparing the National team with an English club side. I wonder would this question be more worthwhile to ask to English people comparing England and their club side like Rotherham or Palace or whoever. The question works better for people who are from the places and go each week as they've more to weigh up.

Ferris_Bueller

I used to be a massive Kildare County supporter when they were around, unfortunately they're not around anymore. I still have a huge interest in the LoI and have tried to get back attending games, would go up to Tallaght Stadium for the odd Rovers game (closest to me, and their recent success/facilities definitely helped draw me), but as others have said when you're not from the area it just doesn't feel the same, as much as I enjoy going to their games and seeing them do well it doesn't feel like it did with Kildare County or supporting Ireland. So I can completely understand why people who don't have a LoI team on their doorstep aren't massive supporters of any teams in the LoI, although it would be nice if the general public had a bit more interest in the league in general.

As I said in the OP I would be a very casual Liverpool fan, started when I was young, no doubt chose them because they're a successful club. I would still watch most of their games because it is so easy to access, and it's a good common ground and talking point with a lot of other people who are interested in football - unfortunately I couldn't go down to my local and have such an in depth discussion with everybody about Shamrock Rovers or St.Pats.

I would rather see any LoI team qualify for the Champions League than see Liverpool win it, at the end of the day I'm from Ireland and want to see Irish teams doing well, even if I'm not from that specific area.

Iang87

Omackeral wrote: »

I can't buy this for a second. So GAA is based on supporting where you're from but soccer isn't? What about international teams? Just because there's movement between clubs doesn't make it so. People from Dundee would generally support Dundee or Dundee Utd. People from Bristol would generally support Bristol City or Bristol Rovers. Its the same right across Europe, the people in the stadiums week in and week out are from the places that their teams are. It's just accepted over here. And it's gas that you never here of any Luton Town fans or Tranmere fans given that London and Liverpool have this massive irish connection.

They're different sports with different beliefs i dont think you can compare the two.

most fans of every sport come from the area they're based but not all of them. The point is that people should be allowed to choose who or what they support and not be seen as a lesser supporter of the sport/team because of which team they put first

roanoke

International.

The quality is pretty awful (from top to bottom) and with following Ireland there's precious little glory in it these days (unless you count beating Estonia in a play-off). But you occasionally get great moments (like Keane vs France '09 or O'Shea last Tuesday) that make it all worth it. I never get that excitement watching any club team.

doncarlos

doncarlos wrote: »

If your family supported Scunthorpe or Hartlepool, would you support them?

When I was a kid I supported Liverpool as all my friends did and they were the most successful team at the time. THIS is the reason most people support whatever club they do.

And there's nothing wrong with that at all. For the record, I had Leeds thrust upon me by my family.

But when it comes to following teams, would Leeds ever replace Ireland in my affections, would Leeds ever become my main focus? Not a chance. Ever. I'd go further and say if Leeds were against any Irish team, even Waterford or Limerick, I'd probably root for the Irish team.

I would not suggest for one moment that following English clubs is awful. It's just that preferring to see an English club succeed, more than one's national side...I just don't get it.

Will I Amnt

doncarlos wrote: »

It's a discussion forum. Shanotheslayer replied to one of my posts and I replied to him. Isn't that how these things work?

Why do you care?

It seems to bother you and many others that people support teams outside of the LOI, I'm just asking you why. If you care to discuss that.

Omackeral

Iang87 wrote: »

They're different sports with different beliefs i dont think you can compare the two.

most fans of every sport come from the area they're based but not all of them. The point is that people should be allowed to choose who or what they support and not be seen as a lesser supporter of the sport/team because of which team they put first

People are obviously allowed support who they want. It's just we're pretty different from the rest of Europe in that the majority here ignore their own league. And when people bring up standard etc, I always think well how come Hibs or Brighton can get good loyal crowds from their own areas and would be deemed weird if they followed Arsenal or Chelsea.

Will I Amnt

Omackeral wrote: »

You won't get an answer on this but it fully proves a point. A Louth man supporting Kerry would be called a glory hunter (and possibly a gob****e) but it's the same premise of any of us following Liverpool or United to be honest.

My closest LOI team is Drogheda United who are located in a different county yet if I supported them that would be fine by the people on your side of the argument, why is that any different than a Louth man supporting Kerry?

doncarlos

Will I Amnt wrote: »

It seems to bother you and many others that people support teams outside of the LOI, I'm just asking you why. If you care to discuss that.

It doesn't bother me who they support but I'd like the league to grow and the only way of doing this is with more bums on seats (or standing should one rather). A successful well supported league of Ireland is important for the future of football in this country. We can't depend on British clubs to develop our players as they are now signing players from all over the world.

Nobody would expect anybody to stop supporting a club they have followed overnight but they shouldn't just ignore what's on their doorstep.
Take Norway for example. A population of similar size to Ireland full of football supporters. Quite a lot support premier league teams but also support their local sides too.

Omackeral

What I'm saying is that you wouldn't get people from Louth supporting Kerry or Dublin GAA because it would be deemed weird. But if that same bloke supports Man United or Arsenal nobody bats an eyelid. That's the double standard. Drogheda stetches into Meath too btw and they've got plenty of fans from there.

Iang87

Omackeral wrote: »

People are obviously allowed support who they want. It's just we're pretty different from the rest of Europe in that the majority here ignore their own league. And when people bring up standard etc, I always think well how come Hibs or Brighton can get good loyal crowds from their own areas and would be deemed weird if they followed Arsenal or Chelsea.

Their leagues are developed compared to ours not being developed

CSF

doncarlos wrote: »

But isn't that what sport is about? Tribalism? The Liverpool or United fan won't have any problem calling each other a scouse or a manc so they obviously associate each other (and themselves) with where the club is located. I do find it odd that somebody can claim they get the full experience of supporting a club when they are based hundreds of miles away.
A match going experience also can't be compared to watching a game on the comfort of your sofa. It's like comparing listening to a CD to seeing a band you love live. Nobody in their right mind would try and say a CD was better

Well I think all football fans try and mimic tribalism even if it's not really a part of their support.

It's the done thing so people are going to do it.

Omackeral

Iang87 wrote: »

Their leagues are developed compared to ours not being developed

What does that even mean?

Iang87

Omackeral wrote: »

Developed? What does that mean?

It means there leagues are known about, get tv coverage and have a good following. A good example of under developed would be League of Ireland

oldyouth

Lamper.sffc wrote: »

The national side for me. I never understand how an Irish person would prefer an English side over his national side. Baffles me. I support Leeds and have done for over 20 yrs, but if the two teams Ireland and Leeds played then Id want Ireland to win everytime. No question.

Ah but Lamper, you obviously had a strong affiliation to a former LOI side. If they were still around, you might answer the question differently

Omackeral

I get ya. That's a fair enough point. A bit more exposure would be nice although there's been games on RTE 2 the last few Fridays and there's another one on tonight. I would wager that the majority of League 1 games don't be on telly though and their attendances still hammer ours.

I am pie

As a Northern Ireland supporter I'd have to say club football, different with Ulster rugby but international games are a nice diversion for me. I like to see the RoI side do well and have been to a few games but never really found myself feeling as passionate as I would do for Liverpool, Ulster and Irish rugby. Have an Irish passport and would consider myself irish, support the NI team for geographic reasons (watched them as a kid in belfast) rather than anything.