International or Club football?

Iang87

They do but they also come from relatively bigger cities/towns than ours do. Attendances should be better in some places. I'll be at the limerick game tonight and there wont be a 1000 people at it and we've a city of almost 60,000. There must be something that can be done to change that.

RTE could also do more and might from next year but we'll see, off topic anyway

I'll still go Club, maybe get rid of that singing section at Irish games and I might rethink

listermint

They arent the same thing, So the I think the premise of the tread is flawed. Appears designed to be closed from the get go.


support who you like , what you like.


But leave you self open to any slagging imaginable. Part of being Irish is being slagged to bits its good natured.


Anyway as i said. meh.

WesternZulu

I don't get the whole well I have no LOI team near me so therefore I have no option but to support United/Liverpool.

Hypothetically, if United/Liverpool were an Irish team, with all the same European tradition and glamour that they have now, that those same people would not support them if they weren't in the same county?

BS!!

I am pie

WesternZulu wrote: »

I don't get the whole well I have no LOI team near me so therefore I have no option but to support United/Liverpool.

Hypothetically, if United/Liverpool were an Irish team, with all the same European tradition and glamour that they have now, that those same people would not support them if they weren't in the same county?

BS!!

I have no interest in the LoI in the same way that I have no interest in drinking Irish red wine. It may be local, it may be honest, but it cannot compare on quality.

WesternZulu

I am pie wrote: »

I have no interest in the LoI in the same way that I have no interest in drinking Irish red wine. It may be local, it may be honest, but it cannot compare on quality.

So if your chosen team was to drop down the leagues for whatever reason you'd stop supporting them?

I mean sure the standard would be honest, but in terms of quality you'd surely have to abandon them for someone new?

Iang87

WesternZulu wrote: »

I don't get the whole well I have no LOI team near me so therefore I have no option but to support United/Liverpool.

Hypothetically, if United/Liverpool were an Irish team, with all the same European tradition and glamour that they have now, that those same people would not support them if they weren't in the same county?

BS!!

Hypothetcally if they were irish we'd have a thriving league. Your point makes no sense. Its not like the LoI would exist with united away to UCD bringing 5,000 while an old fella and his dog take up the main stand.

Diabhal Beag

Country by a country mile. Supporting a LOI side was never really as exciting as getting to see Ireland in a World Cup or the anticipation of the Euros. Even the most jaded football fans I know werein great form the morning after the Germany game. That same feeling wouldn't come with Galway FC getting promoted.

doncarlos

I am pie wrote: »

I have no interest in the LoI in the same way that I have no interest in drinking Irish red wine. It may be local, it may be honest, but it cannot compare on quality.

I assume you don't drink Irish beer, eat Irish food, visit Irish museums, watch Irish TV and movies, read Irish newspapers and most of all support the Irish soccer side

WesternZulu

Iang87 wrote: »

Hypothetcally if they were irish we'd have a thriving league. Your point makes no sense. Its not like the LoI would exist with united away to UCD bringing 5,000 while an old fella and his dog take up the main stand.

That's why I said it was hypothetical.

Iang87

WesternZulu wrote: »

That's why I said it was hypothetical.

I'm aware but its even a ridiculous hypothetical point. You're assuming they're only the biggest clubs because they win things. They're league was the main reason they became big clubs so you're ignoring that

WesternZulu

Iang87 wrote: »

I'm aware but its even a ridiculous hypothetical point. You're assuming they're only the biggest clubs because they win things. They're league was the main reason they became big clubs so you're ignoring that

I'm just trying to say in a roundabout way that I think that it's ridiculous that people say that they are compelled to support a premier league team just because the nearest LOI team is in another county.

Newsflash, Lancashire is another county as well.

I am pie

I am pie wrote: »

I have no interest in the LoI in the same way that I have no interest in drinking Irish red wine. It may be local, it may be honest, but it cannot compare on quality.

It can't, but if quality was the issue I presume you went for the champagne of Barca or Real, and didn't settle for some solid but unspectacular mid price range English label then?

Iang87

WesternZulu wrote: »

I'm just trying to say in a roundabout way that I think that it's ridiculous that people say that they are compelled to support a premier league team just because the nearest LOI team is in another county.

Newsflash, Lancashire is another county as well.

I dont, its the easiest league to access. On tv multiple times each week and you dont have to drive/travel somewhere to watch it

LuckyLloyd

Ireland dwarfs Liverpool in importance and significance for me.

Osmosis Jones

If everyone in the country started going to LOI games and supporting the teams, the current LOI fans would probably still be bitter about them supporting the teams first or some ****e.

_Puma_

Sometimes it comes down to whether the person actually enjoys the game of football. I've heard a lot of Liverpool/Man United supporters I know regularly say the would prefer watching a game of rugby or Hurling to watching a football game.

The whole Man united/Liverpool, and to a certain extent RoI following, just comes down to simple tribalism and comradeship with their mates who happen to follow the same English club.

I've yet to meet a football person who is involved in grassroots football or follows a LoI team say they they would prefer watching Man United on TV than going to see their football team play in the local ground in person. A lot of it comes from participation, be it being in the stands or coaching the local U8 team. I wouldn't call watching an English PL team on TV on a Saturday afternoon in the pub participating in the game. Give me playing a junior game in the pissing rain or watching the local LoI team get beat 2-0 any day of the week.

There are some exceptions of course, I know a few football people who don't go to any LoI football but would be heavily involved in an English team supporter clubs and organise trips over to England. Cant fault these people in my opinion as they just prefer the product the English league offers to the LoI. A lot of the times the same guys would be heavily involved with the local Junior team and at least these guys are participating in the game.

Hell of a lot better that the lads who would prefer to watch a game on TV in the pub and switch over 10 minutes from full time to see if their accumulator will come in.

For the record for me its Local Junior team > LoI team > International > Liverpool PL team. In fact this evening I'm torn between going training for the Local junior team for a crunch game at the weekend or going to watch Galway in the 1st Div playoff against Shels(we owe them one at home!). Watching Liverpool or the RoI wouldn't even figure into my decision if they were on the box.

Iang87

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

If everyone in the country started going to LOI games and supporting the teams, the current LOI fans would probably still be bitter about them supporting the teams first or some ****e.

be great if you wouldnt paint us all with that brush. Sound

doncarlos

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

If everyone in the country started going to LOI games and supporting the teams, the current LOI fans would probably still be bitter about them supporting the teams first or some ****e.

This is one of the oddest posts that has ever been on boards.ie
I have never heard a LOI fan or a fan of any club complaining about bigger crowds.

uch

Bray are similar, the town has a population of roughly 25 -30k but they can't attract 500 to a home game, and no other sports are big/popular in Bray either.

Iang87 wrote: »

They do but they also come from relatively bigger cities/towns than ours do. Attendances should be better in some places. I'll be at the limerick game tonight and there wont be a 1000 people at it and we've a city of almost 60,000. There must be something that can be done to change that.

RTE could also do more and might from next year but we'll see, off topic anyway

I'll still go Club, maybe get rid of that singing section at Irish games and I might rethink

I am pie

WesternZulu wrote: »

So if your chosen team was to drop down the leagues for whatever reason you'd stop supporting them?

I mean sure the standard would be honest, but in terms of quality you'd surely have to abandon them for someone new?

I would support my team as they aspire to rise up through the leagues again. In the LoI the ceiling is lower.

CSF

Deleted User wrote: »

It can't, but if quality was the issue I presume you went for the champagne of Barca or Real, and didn't settle for some solid but unspectacular mid price range English label then?

Eh no of course not, he is a real fan, not a gloryhunter.

uch

For me it'd always be Rovers over Country, I stopped going to home Ireland matches years ago as the atmosphere was shíte, I do still go on a few away trips but thats more about the craic to be had and meeting up with old friends.

CSF

I am pie wrote: »

I would support my team as they aspire to rise up through the leagues again. In the LoI the ceiling is lower.

So quality isn't actually the denominator then?

I don't actually care who you support tbh, but your logic is astoundingly stupid here.

deadybai

Defiantly country. I have no interest in LOI Waterford United is my local team but I wouldnt really care for them all that much. Id see how they were getting on but I wouldnt really care if they won the League. Same with my English team Man UTD. I am interested in them the most but again I wouldnt really care if they won the Champions league.

So for people saying club,
Would rather see your favorite club beating their closest rivals in the champions league final (eg Man UTD beating Liverpool) or would you rather see Ireland beating England in the European final? Id know which one id pick. Country by miles.

I am pie

doncarlos wrote: »

I assume you don't drink Irish beer, eat Irish food, visit Irish museums, watch Irish TV and movies, read Irish newspapers and most of all support the Irish soccer side

What an odd assumption, I can't even begin to understand your logic. My best guess is it's vaguely patriotic. Not my thing, flags and passports are not important to me. I am very proud to have been born in Ireland, but I am not very attached to the idea of the Irish state or nationality.

I support the Northern Ireland football side, based on where i grew up. I do support Antrim hurling and football, but am not very close to it.

In as much as it's relevant, apart from downloading Love/hate and reading the journal on line I don't have much of an opportunity to drink a lot of Guinness as it doesnt travel too well.

uch

Rovers every time

deadybai wrote: »

Defiantly country. I have no interest in LOI Waterford United is my local team but I wouldnt really care for them all that much. Id see how they were getting on but I wouldnt really care if they won the League. Same with my English team Man UTD. I am interested in them the most but again I wouldnt really care if they won the Champions league.

So for people saying club,
Would rather see your favorite club beating their closest rivals in the champions league final (eg Man UTD beating Liverpool) or would you rather see Ireland beating England in the European final? Id know which one id pick. Country by miles.

deadybai

uch wrote: »

Rovers every time

Thats actually mental :pac:

Iang87

deadybai wrote: »

Defiantly country. I have no interest in LOI Waterford United is my local team but I wouldnt really care for them all that much. Id see how they were getting on but I wouldnt really care if they won the League. Same with my English team Man UTD. I am interested in them the most but again I wouldnt really care if they won the Champions league.

So for people saying club,
Would rather see your favorite club beating their closest rivals in the champions league final (eg Man UTD beating Liverpool) or would you rather see Ireland beating England in the European final? Id know which one id pick. Country by miles.

Your question is definitely flawed. Liverpool or united my be in a champions league final against one another. Ireland will never play in a european final against england.

It should be more like United v Liverpool in a champions league final or Ireland v England in a group stage of a euros (maybe a quarters)

deadybai

Iang87 wrote: »

Your question is definitely flawed. Liverpool or united my be in a champions league final against one another. Ireland will never play in a european final against england.

It should be more like United v Liverpool in a champions league final or Ireland v England in a group stage of a euros (maybe a quarters)

How is it flawed? Its the exact same situation.

I am pie

CSF wrote: »

So quality isn't actually the denominator then?

I don't actually care who you support tbh, but your logic is astoundingly stupid here.

Quality is the denominator, that your struggling with that concept doesn't interest me an awful lot. I assumed it was straightforward.

I love football, I like to watch it played at a high level, that isn't available in the Irish league. As a young boy I was attracted to a team I saw playing great football and that were frequently on TV. I developed an attachment. I went to watch local football and often wanted to leave at halftime as it appeared to me to be an ugly spectacle.

If my team were to drop through the leagues I would support them on the basis that they had potential to rise back up to a league of higher quality than is available in Ireland. To be honest, they would have to drop at least 2 divisions to drop to the level. I would support them, frustated but with confidence they would rise up beyond that limited level.

Perhaps if you think logically and not restricted by some perceived loyaltly to local products it becomes easier to understand.

In the same way I watch the premier league, I listen to music from around the world which I perceive to be of higher quality, same with art and literature. I don't look for a "Made in Ireland" stamp because it does not interest me.

Internationally I am drawn to NI, it's nice to have an interest in an underdog occassionally and I grew up there.

CSF

I am pie wrote: »

Quality is the denominator, that your struggling with that concept doesn't interest me an awful lot. I assumed it was straightforward.

I love football, I like to watch it played at a high level, that isn't available in the Irish league. As a young boy I was attracted to a team I saw playing great football and that were frequently on TV. I developed an attachment. I went to watch local football and often wanted to leave at halftime as it appeared to me to be an ugly spectacle.

If my team were to drop through the leagues I would support them on the basis that they had potential to rise back up to a league of higher quality than is available in Ireland. To be honest, they would have to drop at least 2 divisions to drop to the level. I would support them, frustated but with confidence they would rise up beyond that limited level.

Perhaps if you think logically and not restricted by some perceived loyaltly to local products it becomes easier to understand.

In the same way I watch the premier league, I listen to music from around the world which I perceive to be of higher quality, same with art and literature. I don't look for a "Made in Ireland" stamp because it does not interest me.

Internationally I am drawn to NI, it's nice to have an interest in an underdog occassionally and I grew up there.

If quality was the denominator you would not support a team who were not of high quality. That is logical.

CSF

CSF wrote: »

So quality isn't actually the denominator then?

I don't actually care who you support tbh, but your logic is astoundingly stupid here.

Quality is the most God Help Us line used by people to explain why they picked (entirely coincidentally) the same foreign team as their Dad.

Sure what would the average kid know about the quality of football when he picks his team? As if they study the various leagues and pronounce themselves most satisfied with the quality displayed in England! Most of them will have never seen a game here when they allegedly make this big decision that the quality is not good enough for them.

PhlegmyMoses

So, from this thread about your preference of international or club football, we have established that loads of fans of English clubs are glory hunters. This is new information to me and I for one am glad that this ground breaking discussion was given oxygen.

Ferris_Bueller

I am pie wrote: »

Quality is the denominator, that your struggling with that concept doesn't interest me an awful lot. I assumed it was straightforward.

I love football, I like to watch it played at a high level, that isn't available in the Irish league. As a young boy I was attracted to a team I saw playing great football and that were frequently on TV. I developed an attachment. I went to watch local football and often wanted to leave at halftime as it appeared to me to be an ugly spectacle.

If my team were to drop through the leagues I would support them on the basis that they had potential to rise back up to a league of higher quality than is available in Ireland. To be honest, they would have to drop at least 2 divisions to drop to the level. I would support them, frustated but with confidence they would rise up beyond that limited level.

Perhaps if you think logically and not restricted by some perceived loyaltly to local products it becomes easier to understand.

In the same way I watch the premier league, I listen to music from around the world which I perceive to be of higher quality, same with art and literature. I don't look for a "Made in Ireland" stamp because it does not interest me.

Internationally I am drawn to NI, it's nice to have an interest in an underdog occassionally and I grew up there.

Regarding the bold part, a lot of friends I have who are United or Liverpool fans have said the same thing. Realistically though, when you're 7 or 8 years old you have absolutely no regard for the quality of a football match, I'd imagine 99% of any football supporters who started following a team at that age done so because their friends or family did, or simply because the team they chose was a successful team at the time.

Regarding the rest of your post, if you are all about the quality of football on show then how come you would still support your team if they dropped a few divisions and the quality was poorer? Why this "perceived loyalty"?

Omackeral

I am pie wrote: »

Quality is the denominator, that your struggling with that concept doesn't interest me an awful lot. I assumed it was straightforward.

I love football, I like to watch it played at a high level, that isn't available in the Irish league. As a young boy I was attracted to a team I saw playing great football and that were frequently on TV. I developed an attachment. I went to watch local football and often wanted to leave at halftime as it appeared to me to be an ugly spectacle.

If my team were to drop through the leagues I would support them on the basis that they had potential to rise back up to a league of higher quality than is available in Ireland. To be honest, they would have to drop at least 2 divisions to drop to the level. I would support them, frustated but with confidence they would rise up beyond that limited level.

.

And if they couldn't mount a comeback and ended up sliding down and languishing in League 2?

Iang87

deadybai wrote: »

How is it flawed? Its the exact same situation.

Or its not the same question as the case is.

Ireland will never be in a European final v England. They may be in a quarter final or group match. World of difference

PhlegmyMoses

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

So, from this thread about your preference of international or club football, we have established that loads of fans of English clubs are glory hunters. This is new information to me and I for one am glad that this ground breaking discussion was given oxygen.

Not sure why you are getting dismissive about a thread on your third contribution to it.

Will I Amnt

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not sure why you are getting dismissive about a thread on your third contribution to it.

The thread is miles off topic and has been from the get go. It's now LOI v EPL and it was sticking out like a sore thumb that it was going to come down to that from the thread title.

Omackeral

Will I Amnt wrote: »

The thread is miles off topic and has been from the get go. It's now LOI v EPL and it was sticking out like a sore thumb that it was going to come down to that from the thread title.

Why is that though? If you asked this Club vs Country question in most other countries, it'd be a conundrum between Portugeuse clubs and Portugal, or German clubs and Germany. Over here, It's English clubs and Ireland.

PhlegmyMoses

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not sure why you are getting dismissive about a thread on your third contribution to it.

I'm sorry, I didn't realise there was a quota of posts before an opinion becomes valid. Good to know.

This discussion comes up every few weeks. A few English team fans come up with increasingly twisted justifications for their support of English teams. Family, youth, friends, quality.

A few LOI supporters then try to shoot down all of these reasons and attempt to coax out what they believe to be the real reason: Gloryhunting. Rinse\repeat every two weeks.

But this thread was not about this. It's about a preference over club football or international football. And yet here we are.

Necro

For my two cents, I'd definitely follow the national team more passionately than the club team (Arsenal) that I support. More of a GAA man really, and involved in my local club so I get the whole tribalism and togetherness that is a large part of supporting football (imo) For me it's: Local GAA Club > Ireland > Sligo (Rovers + GAA) > Arsenal.
I was born in North London and lived there for five/six years, but having moved away I don't feel as big a connection to them as I would to the national team, local GAA club or even the junior soccer team in my home town.

The Golden Miller

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Why Cliftonville? What's the difference in supporting Cliftonville and Celtic?

Because many Irish people in Belfast support Cliftonville, just as many Irish people in Dublin support Rovers. I can understand them putting their club over Ireland, but putting a foreign club over the land you live and breathe in is a disgrace.

As for the point your trying to get at with Cliftonville, that the north is a different country which is the same as Celtic being British, well just take your partistionist sh!te to another thread

Andersonisgod

Club football of course. I'm far more passionate about something I chose, something I go out of my way to watch every week rather than something that was thrust upon me. European club football has been the major influence on how I believe football should be played, while football in Ireland, for the most part, remains an agricultural affair a couple of decades behind the great football nations.

briany

Club Football at the highest levels has become a bastardisation of what club football was originally all about, local players representing their areas. So many big clubs are now beholden to private interests, their players playing only for the money, their links to the area they sprang from becoming ever more tenuous. Something that all the quality of big name club football can't really ever manufacture is community and pride, a huge part of what makes sport a transcendent thing. It's become much more with clubs that they're something that exist alongside the community that claims them, they just take in the money that game attendances and merchandise provide and get on with it, but it's not a chance for the players to represent the people they claim to. It's just about money alongside the chance at glory. International football is still more pure, to me. Not saying a lot in the world of professional football, but there you go.

The Golden Miller

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Because many Irish people in Belfast support Cliftonville, just as many Irish people in Dublin support Rovers. I can understand them putting their club over Ireland, but putting a foreign club over the land you live and breathe in is a disgrace.

A disgrace?

A disgrace to who exactly?

Does this logic work only for football or does it extend to music and food products etc Guaranteed Irish


Cliftonville are a UK team anyway btw so they fall into the same category as English teams

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

rarnes1 wrote: »

Cliftonville are a UK team anyway btw so they fall into the same category as English teams

Not for an Irishman in Belfast to whom they are a local team.

Anyway, I follow the Premier League and La Liga far more than LOI but I grew up in rural Mayo where there was absolutely no awareness of the LOI, I didnt even know it existed until I was eleven or so. If I lived in Ireland I would follow it more but thats absolutely impossible when I am living in Korea or Colombia. Nonetheless, I think LOI fans are correct that you cant have the same connection to an English team as they do to an Irish one. I can see it myself in the contrast between my support of City and my support of Mayo GAA. The latter means absolutely everything to me because its where I am from. I am not from Manchester, there is no way City can mean the same to me as it can to somebody from there.

Mars Bar

Deleted User wrote: »

And Beckham wasn't all that good looking!

If I was still mod round these parts, you'd be feeling the banhammer right now! :P

Will I Amnt

The Golden Miller wrote: »

As for the point your trying to get at with Cliftonville, that the north is a different country which is the same as Celtic being British, well just take your partistionist sh!te to another thread

Partisionist sh*te? Lol.
It was a genuine question and I'm happy enough with the answer you gave, no need for the bullsh*t explosion.

Just to be clear, is it OK with you for someone from Dublin to support Cliftonville? You never stated that they had to be from Belfast.

Will I Amnt

Omackeral wrote: »

Why is that though? If you asked this Club vs Country question in most other countries, it'd be a conundrum between Portugeuse clubs and Portugal, or German clubs and Germany. Over here, It's English clubs and Ireland.

So what? It's still club or country.

CSF

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

I'm sorry, I didn't realise there was a quota of posts before an opinion becomes valid. Good to know.

This discussion comes up every few weeks. A few English team fans come up with increasingly twisted justifications for their support of English teams. Family, youth, friends, quality.

A few LOI supporters then try to shoot down all of these reasons and attempt to coax out what they believe to be the real reason: Gloryhunting. Rinse\repeat every two weeks.

But this thread was not about this. It's about a preference over club football or international football. And yet here we are.

If people didn't continually say stupid illogical things, I wouldn't be continually obliged to point out why their logic is ridiculous.

If more people on both sides of any argument posted in a more reasonable manner, threads would never descend into farce.