International or Club football?

CSF

Will I Amnt wrote: »

So what? It's still club or country.

It is different. I don't see how you can't see how it's different when you consider that the primary reason anyone would pick country is down to nationality/locality

Will I Amnt

CSF wrote: »

It is different. I don't see how you can't see how it's different when you consider that the primary reason anyone would pick country is down to nationality/locality

The question for me is Manchester United or Ireland?
The question for you is *insert club name* or Ireland?

It's that simple.

larchielads

I used to work in a pub in kilkenny. The slaggin i got for bein a blaa twaz unreal. The same people drinkin there shout for munster in the rugby wearin the jerseys and everythin. Go figure:pac:

Omackeral

Will I Amnt wrote: »

So what? It's still club or country.

Someone specifically asked why it was boiling down to LOI vs EPL from the outset. My post explains perfectly why that question is only really pertinent in Ireland compared to other nations, such as Portugal and Germany. Can you not read or are you having difficulty with the logic? It's obviously going to be more of a dilemma for a Berliner to chose between Hertha and the German National team than it is for some fella from Ballyfermot to choose between Leeds and Ireland.

Omackeral

Will I Amnt wrote: »

The question for me is Manchester United or Ireland?
The question for you is *insert club name* or Ireland?

It's that simple.

Question for you was Manchester United. From Manchester, England, where you're not from. And Ireland where you are from. No dilemma. You'd pick Ireland because they're Irish like you

Question for CSF was Shelbourne. From Dublin, Ireland, where he is from. And Ireland where he is from. The part in bold is why he'd have a dilemma and you wouldn't. Both of his teams are where he's from so it makes it more of a dilemma.

Will I Amnt

Omackeral wrote: »

Someone specifically asked why it was boiling down to LOI vs EPL from the outset. My post explains perfectly why that question is only really pertinent in Ireland compared to other nations, such as Portugal and Germany. Can you not read or are you having difficulty with the logic? It's obviously going to be more of a dilemma for a Berliner to chose between Hertha and the German National team than it is for some fella from Ballyfermot to choose between Leeds and Ireland.

I was the one that stated it was clearly going to boil down to LOI v EPL, I didn't ask a question of anybody, maybe it's you that can't read?

Nobody asked about dilemmas, the question is there in the thread title for all to see. A few people created the dilemma and we end up here... Again.

Will I Amnt

Omackeral wrote: »

Question for you was Manchester United. From Manchester, England, where you're not from. And Ireland where you are from. No dilemma. You'd pick Ireland because they're Irish like you

Question for CSF was Shelbourne. From Dublin, Ireland, where he is from. And Ireland where he is from. The part in bold is why he'd have a dilemma and you wouldn't. Both of his teams are where he's from so it makes it more of a dilemma.

You are creating the dilemma seemingly to push an agenda. The question is what I said originally without the embellishing you added.

Omackeral

Look, I don't care who follows who to be honest. All I'm saying is it's easy for people to say they'd choose their country over their club when their club is in an entirely different country. That's all.

keith16

Country for me. I screamed my ****ing lungs out when O'Shea equalised the other night. A reaction that I haven't had for a long time.

COYVB

i don't care for international football, no matter who's playing. i'll stick an international game on to watch if i'm doing nothing else, but that's only because it's football and i've nothing else to do. for me it doesn't boil down to ireland vs. *insert club here*, it boils down to international competition vs. club competition, and i'd watch any club game over any international game every single time

Beasty

United have given me the greatest football experiences in my life. I've watched them perhaps a thousand times. I was at Wembley in '85, Rotterdam in 91, the Nou Camp in '99, Moscow in '08. I've witnessed a lot of great occasions at OT - the comeback against Barcelona in '84, the 7 goals against Roma. They've even now put my name on my seat! I regularly get to see some of the best players in the World watching United. I've also travelled to Wembley to see England numerous times - it's simply a different experience. You may get a dozen matches a year of which a couple actually mean something. Yes I was also at OT when Beckam scored against Greece in injury time to see England through to the 2002 finals, but give me those 3 minutes in the Nou Camp any time - they will never be matched in my life. My passion is the club that has brought me so many magical memories

citytillidie

Omackeral wrote: »

I can't buy this for a second. So GAA is based on supporting where you're from but soccer isn't? What about international teams? Just because there's movement between clubs doesn't make it so. People from Dundee would generally support Dundee or Dundee Utd. People from Bristol would generally support Bristol City or Bristol Rovers. Its the same right across Europe, the people in the stadiums week in and week out are from the places that their teams are. It's just accepted over here. And it's gas that you never here of any Luton Town fans or Tranmere fans given that London and Liverpool have this massive irish connection.

Tranmere Rovers Ireland Supports club

http://www.trscireland.info/

Omackeral

citytillidie wrote: »

Tranmere Rovers Ireland Supports club

http://www.trscireland.info/

I have literally never met one Tranmere fan in my life.

PhlegmyMoses

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

This is new information to me and I for one am glad that this ground breaking discussion was given oxygen.

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

I'm sorry, I didn't realise there was a quota of posts before an opinion becomes valid. Good to know.

I detect sarcasm...

Mrs Doyle - would you like a cup of tea?
Fr. Jessup - no...I'd rather die of thirst...

miroslavklose

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Supporting a team just for a geological reason to me makes no sense.

Take it you're not a Blackrock College rugby fan either?

yohan the great

COYVB wrote: »

i don't care for international football, no matter who's playing. i'll stick an international game on to watch if i'm doing nothing else, but that's only because it's football and i've nothing else to do. for me it doesn't boil down to ireland vs. *insert club here*, it boils down to international competition vs. club competition, and i'd watch any club game over any international game every single time

You'd have watched the Newcastle Leicester game today ahead of the Brazil Germany world cup semi final if both were on at the same time?

Brussels Sprout

Republic of Ireland all the way. I've supported Aston Villa since I was a young teenager but the rush that I got from John O' Shea's goal the other night (or Robbie Keane's vs Germany back in 2002) far surpassed any celebration for any Villa goal. I have a keen interest in club football but I view it as a bunch of mercenaries coming together with entertainment as a happy by-product of the process. Sometimes I envy people who get really excited about their club teams but I've just never felt that same way about it as I do for Ireland.

losthorizon

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

I'm sorry, I didn't realise there was a quota of posts before an opinion becomes valid. Good to know.

This discussion comes up every few weeks. A few English team fans come up with increasingly twisted justifications for their support of English teams. Family, youth, friends, quality.

A few LOI supporters then try to shoot down all of these reasons and attempt to coax out what they believe to be the real reason: Gloryhunting. Rinse\repeat every two weeks.

But this thread was not about this. It's about a preference over club football or international football. And yet here we are.

I have to say that LOI fans always get the blame for starting these "fights" as you say. But I always think this seems to me to be unfair as it seems to me that people who watch football on TV are just aching to be offended.

I was the first person to reply in the thread. I said " Has to be club football - going to the stadium every second week is just brilliant. It cant be replicated." I on purpose did not mention LOI football, my club or a city because it just attracts negative comments. How sad is that in your own nation?

The post that drew negative comments was this one and he didnt even say he was a LOI supporter. This post is fine I think. The person who says it doesnt seem to support an Irish team or even mention that he or she does

"Country always comes first. But I can understand Irish fans putting Rovers, Cork, Cliftonville etc first. Any Irish fan putting an English club over Ireland needs a good slap (some exceptions apply)".


My main grip with the Boards "soccer" forum is that it seems to attract only young 16-18 year olds who cant have a decent debate and whos outlook is shaped mostly by television.

Lets face it most of the debates here should be in the TV forum not on a football forum.

Greyfox

Club all the way, I was delighted with O’Shea’s equaliser but seeing Manu holding on to get a win against Everton meant far more to me. I’ve been to see Ireland play live a few times but watching my club on TV is a much better experience, club football stirs my emotions in a way that International football just struggles to compete against

COYVB

yohan the great wrote: »

You'd have watched the Newcastle Leicester game today ahead of the Brazil Germany world cup semi final if both were on at the same time?

Absolutely. Had I checked the score after 25 minutes in the semi-final though, I'd probably have switched over.

Not sure why it's so difficult for some people to get their heads around some people simply not liking international football. It was relevant 20 years ago, but its day has long gone. Just gets in the way of proper football now

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

I love international football, even if Ireland arent playing. Cant understand not watching it myself, but to each their own.

Shanotheslayer

miroslavklose wrote: »

Take it you're not a Blackrock College rugby fan either?

No but nothing to do with Geoglogical reason, they're mostly just w*nkers:pac:

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

On the subject of English v Irish clubs- I previously posted on this forum that Irish fans weren´t the only ones not to get behind their own league, as Koreans don´t follow the K-League, usually watching the Premier League or La Liga. However, across my travels in South America, the locals have found it baffling that me and the other Irish people I was with didn´t follow teams from our own country. They find it especially odd when it was explained that lots of people support Celtic bccause of Irish connections but don´t follow local clubs which are actually Irish. There isn´t really any answer you can give to them that doesn´t make you sound like a glory-hunter.

Greyfox

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

..However, across my travels in South America, the locals have found it baffling that me and the other Irish people I was with didn´t follow teams from our own country. They find it especially odd when it was explained that lots of people support Celtic bccause of Irish connections but don´t follow local clubs which are actually Irish. There isn´t really any answer you can give to them that doesn´t make you sound like a glory-hunter.

So you met some ignorant people on your travels, sure theirs ignorant people everywhere in the world. For argument sake lets say that one of the people you were with was a Liverpool fan. His team hasn’t won the League in over 20 years, how can someone like this be considered a glory hunter?

Another problem international football has is months can go by without a competitive match where at least with club football theirs always something to talk/banter about because theirs such a short period of time between the last match and the next match.

Paz-CCFC

Greyfox wrote: »

So you met some ignorant people on your travels, sure theirs ignorant people everywhere in the world. For argument sake lets say that one of the people you were with was a Liverpool fan. His team hasn’t won the League in over 20 years, how can someone like this be considered a glory hunter?

I don't really care if someone got interested in their team by hopping on the bandwagon. You have to start somewhere. I'll be delighted if the 6,000+ that were at the City match last Friday come back again next season.

But do you really believe that Liverpool haven't had any glory in the last 20 years? Three English FA Cups, four English League Cups, a Champions League, a UEFA Cup, a treble, consistently top four in the third best league in Europe, consistently competing in the Champions League and a host of runners up spots in the English League, the Cups, the CL etc. That's a trophy every other season in the past two decades and they're generally challenging for them every single year.

It bloody annoys me when people play the poor mouth, as if they're going through some hardship because their team has "only" won a few domestic and European cups,

AgileMyth

losthorizon wrote: »

I have to say that LOI fans always get the blame for starting these "fights" as you say. But I always think this seems to me to be unfair as it seems to me that people who watch football on TV are just aching to be offended.

Well that's just because Irish people who 'support' English football teams are generally arseholes.

AgileMyth

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

On the subject of English v Irish clubs- I previously posted on this forum that Irish fans weren´t the only ones not to get behind their own league, as Koreans don´t follow the K-League, usually watching the Premier League or La Liga. However, across my travels in South America, the locals have found it baffling that me and the other Irish people I was with didn´t follow teams from our own country. They find it especially odd when it was explained that lots of people support Celtic bccause of Irish connections but don´t follow local clubs which are actually Irish. There isn´t really any answer you can give to them that doesn´t make you sound like a glory-hunter.

Picking some team from hundreds of miles away because they won the league in their country when you were seven is an alien concept to proper football fans.

Omackeral

AgileMyth wrote: »

Well that's just because Irish people who 'support' English football teams are generally arseholes.

I'm as big an LOI fan as anyone but this is an insane statement! You've just called 95% of the population arseholes!

AgileMyth

Omackeral wrote: »

I'm as big an LOI fan as anyone but this is an insane statement! You've just called 95% of the population arseholes!

I'll stand by that.

Omackeral

AgileMyth wrote: »

I'll stand by that.

Well I'm shocked. I'd say 100% of the population are, regardless of affiliation :P

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Greyfox wrote: »

So you met some ignorant people on your travels, sure theirs ignorant people everywhere in the world. For argument sake lets say that one of the people you were with was a Liverpool fan. His team hasn’t won the League in over 20 years, how can someone like this be considered a glory hunter?

Another problem international football has is months can go by without a competitive match where at least with club football theirs always something to talk/banter about because theirs such a short period of time between the last match and the next match.

Its the fact that the majority of Irish fans do not support their own league that people in other nations have trouble understanding. Many of these people come from countries where the domestic football is not of a particularly high standard but is still srted more keenly than the LOI. Im not saying that they are right about everyone in Ireland but they are correct about our culture as a whole.

Greyfox

Greyfox wrote: »

His team hasn’t won the League in over 20 years, how can someone like this be considered a glory hunter?

His dad was!

Plus, as another poster pointed out, it's not like they've been starved of success.

CSF

Greyfox wrote: »

So you met some ignorant people on your travels, sure theirs ignorant people everywhere in the world. For argument sake lets say that one of the people you were with was a Liverpool fan. His team hasn’t won the League in over 20 years, how can someone like this be considered a glory hunter?

Another problem international football has is months can go by without a competitive match where at least with club football theirs always something to talk/banter about because theirs such a short period of time between the last match and the next match.

So most of the world is ignorant? Fair enough, couldn't be you that's wrong.

Greyfox

CSF wrote: »

So most of the world is ignorant? Fair enough, couldn't be you that's wrong.

No, not me, just those silly people that think supporting a team that has success is automatically glory hunting. I understand the fact that an element of success is required to get someone emotionally invested in a club and if you enjoy a sport your naturally going to prefer to watch it been played at the highest level rather then watching teams that don't have the capability of playing truly beautiful football.

Zico

Conor 74 is an International desciple, because he's a good lad.

Greyfox

AgileMyth wrote: »

Picking some team from hundreds of miles away because they won the league in their country when you were seven is an alien concept to proper football fans.

No its not, its actually very common with real football fans. thankfully its only an alien concept to a very small minority of football fans. Real football fans understand the fact that it doesn't matter where the team is from that you pick, just as long as you don't jump ship when your team hits a bad patch.

You'll actually find the majority of proper football fans find this to be perfectly normal and an incredibly rewarding experience, some would even say that some of their best experiences in life comes from this team they picked when they were 7. the same way as its easy to understand why millions of proper football fans around the world will be watching El Classico this weekend, if you love football you like to see it played at the highest level and the highest level is now the watching the best clubs play rather then countries

Zico

Zico wrote: »

Conor 74 is an International desciple, because he's a good lad.

When they post about you instead of the topic, you're winning!

Omackeral

Greyfox wrote: »

No its not, its actually very common with real football fans. thankfully its only an alien concept to a very small minority of football fans. Real football fans understand the fact that it doesn't matter where the team is from that you pick, just as long as you don't jump ship when your team hits a bad patch.

You'll actually find the majority of proper football fans find this to be perfectly normal and an incredibly rewarding experience, some would even say that some of their best experiences in life comes from this team they picked when they were 7. the same way as its easy to understand why millions of proper football fans around the world will be watching El Classico this weekend, if you love football you like to see it played at the highest level and the highest level is now the watching the best clubs play rather then countries

I find the use of the words real and proper ridiculous here. Obviously loads will be watching El Classico, myself included, as it's of a great standard. But the chap who goes to see Notts County week in week out is surely more of a fan than the fella who watches Barca/Real from his sofa. Also most people don't simply 'pick' a team, it's just their club because that's where they're from. Sao Paulo fans that make all that colour and noise are generally from Sao Paulo. They sing songs about where they're from and how their city is the greatest. Same for Marseilles fans. Cork and Dundalk are playing for the title this Friday, a win for City is gonna mean absolutely everything to the native Corkonian who's there all the time. It's gonna mean a lot more to him than another La Liga title will for Barca to John Joe in Westmeath.

Shanotheslayer

AgileMyth wrote: »

I'll stand by that.

Lol. And you're just the greatest thing since slice bread because of the team you support? Get a grip mate.

anncoates

What ironic about the Irish international thing vs domestic football is you get this corny, sentimental bigging up of the football experience (see the recent Three adverts) as exclusively applied to Ireland fans: terraces, away trips; sleeping in airports; banners, loyalty; Tifo/flares etc when supporters of our largely ignored domestic league do it every week and every year if they're in Europe.

It's kinda like people want a Greatest Fans Ever medal for gong on a beano to Europe every 10 years to watch Ireland when they spend the whole year denigrating the domestic league and sneering at its supporters for doing the exact same thing for clubs from Ireland.

Will I Amnt

anncoates wrote: »

It's kinda like people want a Greatest Fans Ever medal for gong on a beano to Europe every 10 years to watch Ireland when they spend the whole year denigrating the domestic league and sneering at its supporters for doing the exact same thing for clubs from Ireland.

The only sneering I see is coming from the LOI side. Most of the Premier League supporters don't care enough to sneer LOI fans.

anncoates

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Most of the Premier League supporters don't care enough to sneer LOI fans.

Passive-aggressive sneering then.

Will I Amnt

anncoates wrote: »

Passive-aggressive sneering then.

Not at all, they are just generally not interested.

anncoates

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Not at all, they are just generally not interested.

That's funny because whenever we have a honest, critical discussion in here about this, the thread suddenly gets infested with people crying like bitches about perceived criticism.

Will I Amnt

anncoates wrote: »

That's funny because whenever we have a honest, critical discussion in here about this, the thread suddenly gets infested with people crying like bitches about perceived criticism.

Yet you are basically doing the same thing in the post I first quoted.
People don't take kindly to having their support belittled by other people on their high horses.

Have you ever seen a thread take a turn into a LOI v EPL debate because of something an EPL fan said?
The instigation always comes from one side and it's not "perceived" criticism either, the same 4 or 5 posters are all over these threads every time it pops up, making the same boring points over and over again, that's what pisses people off.

anncoates

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Yet you are basically doing the same thing in the post I first quoted.
People don't take kindly to having their support belittled by other people on their high horses.

Have you ever seen a thread take a turn into a LOI v EPL debate because of something an EPL fan said?
The instigation always comes from one side and it's not "perceived" criticism either, the same 4 or 5 posters are all over these threads every time it pops up, making the same boring points over and over again, that's what pisses people off.

Are you forced to come into such threads?

rottie 11

Ireland are a load of ****e , i stil watch them but my club comes 1st

Will I Amnt

anncoates wrote: »

Are you forced to come into such threads?

No, but I'm often interested in the topics that the threads are originally created for.

Will I Amnt

Will I Amnt wrote: »

No, but I'm often interested in the topics that the threads are originally created for.

Interested in the topic myself but wading through lots of posts bickering makes it difficult.

It's an interesting subject but always veers way off topic

CSF

Greyfox wrote: »

No its not, its actually very common with real football fans. thankfully its only an alien concept to a very small minority of football fans. Real football fans understand the fact that it doesn't matter where the team is from that you pick, just as long as you don't jump ship when your team hits a bad patch.

You'll actually find the majority of proper football fans find this to be perfectly normal and an incredibly rewarding experience, some would even say that some of their best experiences in life comes from this team they picked when they were 7. the same way as its easy to understand why millions of proper football fans around the world will be watching El Classico this weekend, if you love football you like to see it played at the highest level and the highest level is now the watching the best clubs play rather then countries

You are way off the mark here. Support of the local side is far more common globally. Yes Ireland is one of a number of countrys that book the trend, but us Irelands, Norways, Nigerias of the world are not in the majority.