International or Club football?

niallo27

Omackeral wrote: »

I know. I go to them all the the time. Funnily enough I've only ever been to away games for Ireland. Ultimate Sunshine stuff!

Couldn't you argue when your supporting ireland you supporting a team full of players who were not born in ireland, play football in ireland, live in ireland and don't ever want to live in ireland.

CSF

niallo27 wrote: »

They have enough money. I go in Thomand park when I can and give a few euro to limerick when I can.

'They have enough money' is probably the worst possible argument possible when asked why you essentially steal from the football club you have an 'emotional attachment' with.

Can't even begin to fathom why you would enter an argument like this.

CSF

niallo27 wrote: »

Couldn't you argue when your supporting ireland you supporting a team full of players who were not born in ireland, play football in ireland, live in ireland and don't ever want to live in ireland.

I support the Irish team, not the individual players. Plenty of players born in Ireland, don't mind too much where they choose to live, I'd like to think I won't live in the same place all my life either.

niallo27

CSF wrote: »

'They have enough money' is probably the worst possible argument possible when asked why you essentially steal from the football club you have an 'emotional attachment' with.

Can't even begin to fathom why you would enter an argument like this.

I give them a lot of my money when buying tickets. You are kinda embarrassing yourself with the stealing from the club thing. What are you trying to prove here.

niallo27

CSF wrote: »

I support the Irish team, not the individual players. Plenty of players born in Ireland, don't mind too much where they choose to live, I'd like to think I won't live in the same place all my life either.

Lot of players down the year would have no emotional attachment to this country. It must have made you sick watching these players with an irish jersey on.

CSF

niallo27 wrote: »

I give them a lot of my money when buying tickets. You are kinda embarrassing yourself with the stealing from the club thing. What are you trying to prove here.

That you steal from your club? Most people buy tickets, they don't subsequently decide that once they pay for some games they can hop over the fence for others.

niallo27

niallo27 wrote: »

What if your travelling to games for years following them all over England and meeting the same fans the whole time having a few beers getting bottles ****ed at ya, people spitting in your face, getting a thump for no reason and having the Craic. Do you not think you could build up a tiny emotional attachment attachment by then.

Surely emotional attachments can evolve for a number of reasons, you holidayed there, worked there, your family supported the team, your aunt lives there...or as you suggest you got spat in the face there.

But what is baffling for some is how that emotional attachment supplants or exceeds the emotional attachment to your country. Heck, I've never even been spat in the face here and yet I'm fond of the old sod...more fond than I would ever be about an English club.

CSF

niallo27 wrote: »

Lot of players down the year would have no emotional attachment to this country. It must have made you sick watching these players with an irish jersey on.

I don't like it, obviously. Who would?

niallo27

Deleted User wrote: »

Surely emotional attachments can evolve for a number of reasons, you holidayed there, worked there, your family supported the team, your aunt lives there...or as you suggest you got spat in the face there.

But what is baffling for some is how that emotional attachment supplants or exceeds the emotional attachment to your country. Heck, I've never even been spat in the face here and yet I'm fond of the old sod...more fond than I would ever be about an English club.

Don't be making a big deal of the spat in the face thing. It was a stupid thing for me to say. Sure you can be fond of the sod of you want I'm not big into the whole identity thing. International football doesn't really do it for me.

niallo27

CSF wrote: »

That you steal from your club? Most people buy tickets, they don't subsequently decide that once they pay for some games they can hop over the fence for others.

Well if I didn't have a dodgy box I wouldn't have the football so sky wouldn't be getting my money so I wouldn't affect the deal sky had with the clubs so it wouldn't be up or down so Liverpool aren't down money because I have a dodgy box.

niallo27

CSF wrote: »

I don't like it, obviously. Who would?

So you boycott games I presume and don't celebrate when these players score.

CSF

niallo27 wrote: »

Well if I didn't have a dodgy box I wouldn't have the football so sky wouldn't be getting my money so I wouldn't affect the deal sky had with the clubs so it wouldn't be up or down so Liverpool aren't down money because I have a dodgy box.

Well as long as you have some sort of deluded justification for stealing from your club then it's no harm. Sure the club would probably not even notice it one person hopped over the gate anyway

CSF

niallo27 wrote: »

So you boycott games I presume and don't celebrate when these players score.

No, why would you assume that? I don't boycott any of my teams games and always celebrate when my team scores regardless of circumstances.

niallo27

CSF wrote: »

No, why would you assume that? I don't boycott any of my teams games and always celebrate when my team scores regardless of circumstances.

Your team is full of evil foreigners though with no emotional attachment to your country.

Hulk Hands

What a lot of the LOI brigade don't realise is that outside of Dublin, many (id even say majority) of soccer fans would also have a big interest in GAA. And the GAA provides that local comradery and sense of belonging in abundnace, meaning many don't need it fufilled from a LOI club. Galway GAA isn't the best supported, but there's still far more people and noise at championship games than id get from going to Galway FC. Given that I like both sports reasonably equally, its an easy choice. If it wasn't for the GAA, the LOI would have far healthier attendances than it does. People want to be involved in something, but the majority of the time the local club team and county team fill that void. Also there's no LOI team near a lot of places. Asking a Mayo or Clare person to try and get behind Sligo Rovers, Galway or Limerick is silly. I did have a Galway United season ticket for 2 years a few years back, but no way id have supported a team from Castlebar if it wasn't available to me

CSF

Hulk Hands wrote: »

What a lot of the LOI brigade don't realise is that outside of Dublin, many (id even say majority) of soccer fans would also have a big interest in GAA. And the GAA provides that local comradery and sense of belonging in abundnace, meaning many don't need it fufilled from a LOI club. Galway GAA isn't the best supported, but there's still far more people and noise at championship games than id get from going to Galway FC. Given that I like both sports reasonably equally, its an easy choice. If it wasn't for the GAA, the LOI would have far healthier attendances than it does. People want to be involved in something, but the majority of the time the local club team and county team fill that void. Also there's no LOI team near a lot of places. Asking a Mayo or Clare person to try and get behind Sligo Rovers, Galway or Limerick is silly. I did have a Galway United season ticket for 2 years a few years back, but no way id have supported a team from Castlebar if it wasn't available to me

It isn't a void in peoples life that needs to be filled though. It is just how team sport works in most parts of the world, be that football, GAA, Aussie Rules, rugby, handball, whatever.

It is why team sports are typically done geographically rather than having all the teams play in one centralised location, differentiated by number, colour or maybe even letter. The team is called Manchester, Liverpool, Barcelona or Madrid (with a small few exceptions for all you pedants like me out there) for a reason.

anncoates

Hulk Hands wrote: »

What a lot of the LOI brigade don't realise is that outside of Dublin, many (id even say majority) of soccer fans would also have a big interest in GAA.

They should start some GAA clubs and inter-county teams in Dublin.

It would probably really take off.

Omackeral

niallo27 wrote: »

Couldn't you argue when your supporting ireland you supporting a team full of players who were not born in ireland, play football in ireland, live in ireland and don't ever want to live in ireland.

I've only ever been to see them twice, though, never professed to be a mad fan. One was a holiday in Cyprus and the other was Euro 2012. Two occasions rather than a dedication. I don't support them in the usual sense, but I do follow them on TV. Like most people with their clubs really tbh.

Iang87

Deleted User wrote: »

But do you think people in Dublin have some deeper connection with Ireland because the Dáil is there and the GPO and the 1916 Rising took place there and Kilmainham Jail is there and so on and they can visit them?

I really do not understand that proximity to Dublin changes ones feelings about the country, whether that be pride in the our culture or support for our football team.

Not that I'm remotely prescribing that you must be proud of being Irish, you don't have to be...but would never have though distance from Dublin a factor in following Ireland or an Irish team in anything.

The team are based primarily in Dublin. An occasional training session in UL every few years but primarily Dublin so they weren't accessible to me growing up. They were about as accessible as an english club side. Since then I have invested more time and money in my club side so naturally clubs come first. In my case theres two thankfully

niallo27

anncoates wrote: »

They should start some GAA clubs and inter-county teams in Dublin.

It would probably really take off.

That is not the point he is making but of course you know that.

anncoates

niallo27 wrote: »

That is not the point he is making but of course you know that.

What point is that? That juggling GAA and Liverpool is fine but GAA and a LOI team is impossible?

Or that no Dublin based LOI supporters support/play GAA?

niallo27

anncoates wrote: »

What point is that? That juggling GAA and Liverpool is fine but GAA and a LOI team is impossible?

Or that no Dublin based LOI supporters support/play GAA?

In Dublin you have GAA and LOI on your doorsteps. Most of the rest of the country we dont.

Omackeral

niallo27 wrote: »

In Dublin you have GAA and LOI on your doorsteps. Most of the rest of the country we dont.

You're from Limerick are you not?

niallo27

Omackeral wrote: »

You're from Limerick are you not?

No Clare and yes i go to limerick games as most of my friends are from limerick and i work there.

anncoates

niallo27 wrote: »

In Dublin you have GAA and LOI on your doorsteps. Most of the rest of the country we dont.

To be fair, I can see why a lot of people in GAA strongholds wouldn't get behind a club from a neighboring county but there's not bad local LOI presence across the counties: Cork, Limerick, Wexford, Waterford, Dublin, Galway, Donegal, Sligo, Wicklow, Louth, Longford, Westmeath and also Antrim, Derry etc...

Anyway, even I admit that the we're a little off-topic. Nearly every single LOI supporter I know supports a foreign football team, some fanatically.

It's a valid point in a thread like this to discuss Irish football fanatics anomaly of fanatically supporting the national team but choosing foreign clubs exclusively over domestic ones.

It's interesting and shouldn't have to a source of touchiness if people genuinely back their choices.

con___manx1

International football. got such a rush off o shea scoring that goal against germany. I know the football isn't great but i find i can relate to the national team more than an english club. I am really looking forward to the scotland match next month ; )

Iang87

Iang87 wrote: »

The team are based primarily in Dublin.

But everything Irish is "based primarily in Dublin".

I don't, say, have little interest in Sean Kelly or Sonia O'Sullivan or Katie Taylor or the cricket team or Padraig Harrington or whatever because they are based in Dublin (or from Waterford, Cork or wherever). They represent my country. Liverpool and ManU don't.

I'm amused that I have to explain the difference between Ireland and Liverpool and the connection to you. Again, I am not saying you have to embrace it, but you can surely recognise it? Do you think that one has less of an affinity for the country the further one lives from Dublin?

anncoates

anncoates wrote: »

To be fair, I can see why a lot of people in GAA strongholds wouldn't get behind a club from a neighboring county...

From Kerry.

Have been to more Cork City FC games than Kerry gaelic football matches. But I will concede there's not many of us!

Will I Amnt

[Deleted User] wrote: »

From Kerry.

Have been to more Cork City FC games than Kerry gaelic football matches. But I will concede there's not many of us!

So you're a Cork City fan from Kerry and you're banging on about representation?

Iang87

Deleted User wrote: »

But everything Irish is "based primarily in Dublin".

I don't, say, have little interest in Sean Kelly or Sonia O'Sullivan or Katie Taylor or the cricket team or Padraig Harrington or whatever because they are based in Dublin (or from Waterford, Cork or wherever). They represent my country. Liverpool and ManU don't.

I'm amused that I have to explain the difference between Ireland and Liverpool and the connection to you. Again, I am not saying you have to embrace it, but you can surely recognise it? Do you think that one has less of an affinity for the country the further one lives from Dublin?

I do recognise the difference. We're talking about Ireland the soccer team. You're confusing the football team with national pride.

Must I for the rest of my days automatically prefer something or someone because they're irish. I hate the FAI, I think they're an awful organisation who do little or nothing for our own National league yet you expect me to hop on and support the team they put together because they're irish. I'm aware the irish team represents more mcuh more than the FAI but how can I be truly passionate about something when I hate something so integral to it.

You mention Katie Taylor and the like, when she won gold I was delighted for her because she worked so hard to get there and had to fight to get the sport recognised on that level. The fact she was irish made it a little sweeter but knowing how good she was and all she done before that mean more to me than the fact she's irish.

You've taken my based in Dublin point and blown it out of proportion. The point was it was so far away and unreachable when I was growing up that it may aswell have been an english team I was watching because I had no connection with them and I dont take "because they're irish" as a reason to support anyway. I'm a big rugby fan, wont cheer for leinster.

I'm not saying I dont want the irish team to do well. I do, i cheer for them when they're playing and dont miss a game, but to go back to the question at the start. My club has more of an effect on my day to day life and has more effect on me when I'm watching them than Ireland ever had and for that reason I'd pick club over country

Professional Griefer

Deleted User wrote: »

From Kerry.

Have been to more Cork City FC games than Kerry gaelic football matches. But I will concede there's not many of us!

Same here. 1 Cork game, 0 Kerry games. :cool:

Boskowski

Has to be club football. Simply because of the regularity and the local connection and so on.
Having said that nothing compares to that feeling of being in a major tournament. Let alone winning it.
I can honestly say this 7:1 vs Brazil was the most amazing thing I ever experienced watching football.

Will I Amnt

Will I Amnt wrote: »

So you're a Cork City fan from Kerry and you're banging on about representation?

"Banging on about representation"? I'm not sure I've even used the word "representation". Perhaps you might link me to all these posts, thanks.

But now you raise it, do you, like Iang87, seriously have difficulty understanding how one might be represented by a national side in a way that neither ManU nor Liverpool (nor indeed Cork City FC) do?

I am Irish. I identify with those that represent Ireland, like our national football team. I go to Cork City games (a lot less now than I would like, but life gets in the way), heck I have been to Leeds United games too...but not because Leeds "represent" me, because that would be patently silly.

Iang87

Iang87 wrote: »

Must I for the rest of my days automatically prefer something or someone because they're irish. I hate the FAI, I think they're an awful organisation who do little or nothing for our own National league yet you expect me to hop on and support the team they put together because they're irish. I'm aware the irish team represents more mcuh more than the FAI but how can I be truly passionate about something when I hate something so integral to it.

Oh not at all, you are perfectly entitled to hate this country (if you do) and the FAI. As I said above, I am not prescribing that one must love Ireland, or cry over the anthem, or whatever. But you cannot surely pretend to not understand someone with the converse view, someone who likes a team simply because they represent Ireland.

I too dislike the FAI, but I presume anyone who uses the organisation as their reason doesn't support any team within the organisation that is FIFA.

Iang87

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh not at all, you are perfectly entitled to hate this country (if you do) and the FAI. As I said above, I am not prescribing that one must love Ireland, or cry over the anthem, or whatever. But you cannot surely pretend to not understand someone with the converse view, someone who likes a team simply because they represent Ireland.

I too dislike the FAI, but I presume anyone who uses the organisation as their reason doesn't support any team within the organisation that is FIFA.

I do understand that it doesnt make sense to some people but being made out to be less of a fan because of it is ridiculous.

Will I Amnt

[Deleted User] wrote: »

"Banging on about representation"? I'm not sure I've even used the word "representation". Perhaps you might link me to all these posts, thanks.

I don't, say, have little interest in Sean Kelly or Sonia O'Sullivan or Katie Taylor or the cricket team or Padraig Harrington or whatever because they are based in Dublin (or from Waterford, Cork or wherever). They represent my country. Liverpool and ManU don't.

Cork City FC represent the people of Kerry about as much as Manchester United do the people of Ireland.

Mr_Spaceman

I support Northern Ireland and Rangers, but it would be club for me every time, due to the regularity of games and my own attendance record over the years.

I can see both sides of the debate though, and I wouldn't think any less of someone who felt more affiliation for their national side instead of a particular club whether it's LOI or EPL.

A lot of people seem to be getting too worked up about this!

CSF

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Cork City FC represent the people of Kerry about as much as Manchester United do the people of Ireland.

Not really true, but go on with whatever logic makes you feel better.

AgileMyth

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Asking a Mayo or Clare person to try and get behind Sligo Rovers, Galway or Limerick is silly. I did have a Galway United season ticket for 2 years a few years back, but no way id have supported a team from Castlebar if it wasn't available to me

Sligo Rovers have great support in the north of Mayo. Always have.

It'd be weird to a gah man if I supported Kerry because the 'product' is better, wouldn't it?

Will I Amnt

CSF wrote: »

Not really true, but go on with whatever logic makes you feel better.

I'm not looking to feel better about anything, I'm comfortable with who I support and how I support them. Just picking holes in other people's arguments and points.

The argument for some people here is that an Irish man supporting an English team is less of a fan than the people who live in the locality of that team.
As a Kerry man, is Conor74 less of a fan of Cork City FC than some fella from Cork?

Omackeral

AgileMyth wrote: »

Sligo Rovers have great support in the north of Mayo. Always have.

It'd be weird to a gah man if I supported Kerry because the 'product' is better, wouldn't it?

Nobody will challenge or acknowledge this. It's the exact same thing. One fella tried to delude himself into saying GAA was about supporting where you're from but soccer wasn't. The hint is usually in the name of the team.

Banjaxed82

A massive Spurs supporter growing up. Went to a good few matches in England but as I've gotten older, my interest has waned. Still watch a lot of club football, but I wouldn't break my bollix to watch a Spurs match.

I would break mine (and other people's bollix) to watch an Ireland match though. My interest there has only grown with age.

niallo27

Omackeral wrote: »

Nobody will challenge or acknowledge this. It's the exact same thing. One fella tried to delude himself into saying GAA was about supporting where you're from but soccer wasn't. The hint is usually in the name of the team.

Hang on are you saying it's ok to support a club where your not from or is it not.

major bill

Late to thread

Club always, Ive met some great people supporting Bohs up and down the country, the sessions, the fundraisers you just don't get the same craic/bond at International matches

CSF

Will I Amnt wrote: »

I'm not looking to feel better about anything, I'm comfortable with who I support and how I support them. Just picking holes in other people's arguments and points.

The argument for some people here is that an Irish man supporting an English team is less of a fan than the people who live in the locality of that team.
As a Kerry man, is Conor74 less of a fan of Cork City FC than some fella from Cork?

Not really, Cork City is the local League of Ireland club for both of them. Not that it would be a big deal if he supported a Kerry team at a lower level, but no biggie

Necro

Omackeral wrote: »

Nobody will challenge or acknowledge this. It's the exact same thing. One fella tried to delude himself into saying GAA was about supporting where you're from but soccer wasn't. The hint is usually in the name of the team.

I have a theory on that. 'Local' pride is much more prevalent in GAA circles due to the '1st club' rule - you are aligned to the first club you play for at under 12. The only way you transfer out is to move out of the area, or if you work elsewhere and personally apply for a transfer.
Soccer, even on a local level doesn't have this rule - you pay your membership and play a game for one club, you're tied for a season not for 'life'. You can freely move anywhere the following year.
I'm not saying either one is worse by the way, just my take as a GAA club secretary

EDIT: I should add that I'm talking in local terms, not professional...

Will I Amnt

CSF wrote: »

Not really, Cork City is the local League of Ireland club for both of them. Not that it would be a big deal if he supported a Kerry team at a lower level, but no biggie

See this is where opinions will divide, some of you are saying it's all about representation and others are saying to get the trundle wheel out and see which club is closest.

As I've said already, Drogheda United are the closest club to me, they're located across the county border. I don't see how they could represent me in any way. I was a Home Farm fan and by extension a casual Dublin City fan solely down to the fact that a Gran Aunt lived a short stroll away from the ground and I was brought to games as a kid. That's the only tie I had to that club, they didn't exactly represent me either.
Sporting Fingal were the only club I could say truly represented the area I was from by name.

I agree with a lot of your side of the argument. Manchester United means a lot more to the people of the area but I've never had a local point that out to me any time I've attended a game there, it's only here that I would hear it.

Omackeral

niallo27 wrote: »

Hang on are you saying it's ok to support a club where your not from or is it not.

What I'm saying is this particular poster said that in GAA you should only follow your own county because that's where you're from but that in soccer it's not the case (in his opinion). Found that to be hypocritical/bizarre. Soccer clubs, like the GAA counties, are named after where they're from and represent. They're called Liverpool FC or Nottingham Forest for a reason.

posted by Iang97

GAA is based on supporting where you're from. Players only can play for their home county. That's not the case in soccer so you cant compare the two in that regard.

Will I Amnt

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Cork City FC represent the people of Kerry about as much as Manchester United do the people of Ireland.

Looking for the post where I suggested Cork City represent Kerry. I don't think I did.

You might link it. Or else you are arguing against a point that was never made.

Are you seriously suggesting that ManU or Liverpool represent Ireland as much as Katie Taylor, which was the only post you linked when I asked when did I "bang about representation"? Did you ever hear the anthem played when someone like Taylor succeeds? And what is the national anthem of Liverpool and ManU?

Will I Amnt

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Looking for the post where I suggested Cork City represent Kerry. I don't think I did.

You might link it. Or else you are arguing against a point that was never made.

Are you seriously suggesting that ManU or Liverpool represent Ireland as much as Katie Taylor, which was the only post you linked when I asked when did I "bang about representation"? Did you ever hear the anthem played when someone like Taylor succeeds? And what is the national anthem of Liverpool and ManU?

I never suggested anything you said there or suggested you said anything, read over the posts again if you want.

I may have posed questions or used examples from your posts.