International or Club football?

Will I Amnt

Will I Amnt wrote: »

I never suggested anything you said there or suggested you said anything, read over the posts again if you want.

I may have posed questions or used examples from your posts.

You asked how were Cork City representative of Kerry and suggested I was "banging on about representation".

When I asked what this "banging on" claim was, you linked one post where I didn't refer to Cork City at all, but Ireland and people who have represented Ireland.

Now, not sure if you think the Irish national team do not represent Kerry, as you avoided answering this question...

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting that ManU or Liverpool represent Ireland as much as Katie Taylor, which was the only post you linked when I asked when did I "bang about representation"?

Are you?

But at least, in fairness, you injected some humour along the way...

Will I Amnt wrote: »

I'm comfortable with who I support and how I support them. Just picking holes in other people's arguments and points

Because one might think that you are getting confused between the arguments about Ireland and clubs, in defending why you decided to follow the most successful club in England!

anncoates

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Cork City FC represent the people of Kerry about as much as Manchester United do the people of Ireland.

Presumably it's because Cork is the nearest LOI team to Kerry.

Think the thing we're discussing is more people being patriotic about/loving Irish international football but ignoring domestic football over foreign teams.

It's not really a locale issue, more an interesting anomaly on the national/patriotic side of it - a patriotism that has already essentially been declared fr the national team.

Will I Amnt

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You asked how were Cork City representative of Kerry and suggested I was "banging on about representation".

When I asked what this "banging on" claim was, you linked one post where I didn't refer to Cork City at all, but Ireland and people who have represented Ireland.

Now, not sure if you think the Irish national team do not represent Kerry, as you avoided answering this question...

Are you?

You're getting a bit hung up on semantics. Banging on was probably the wrong turn of phrase but you mentioned a few Irish sports personalities and how they represent the people of Ireland.

I don't know what you are trying to get at with the Irish national team not representing Kerry remark, I don't remember you asking that question, maybe I just didn't bother because of how obvious and silly a question it is.

Incidentally, would you call yourself a fan of those Irish sports people you mentioned?

Edit: Oh and I'm not defending who I support, I don't feel the need to, especially not to some faceless, random person on a website.

Will I Amnt

Will I Amnt wrote: »

I don't know what you are trying to get at with the Irish national team not representing Kerry remark, I don't remember you asking that question, maybe I just didn't bother because of how obvious and silly a question it is.

Ah, you accept my point that the Irish team represent Kerry.

Good. I was a bit puzzled as to why there was any doubt.

And you surely accept that they do so more than Liverpool and ManU.

So we agree.

And, in an effort to find more common ground, I would concede that if I picked ManU when I was 8 or 10 years old, I too would be happier about my selection of English clubs!

Though still wouldn't place them next or near the Irish team in my interests...

Will I Amnt

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ah, you accept my point that the Irish team represent Kerry.

Good. I was a bit puzzled as to why there was any doubt.

And you surely accept that they do so more than Liverpool and ManU.

So we agree.

And, in an effort to find more common ground, I would concede that if I picked ManU when I was 8 or 10 years old, I too would be happier about my selection of English clubs!

Though still wouldn't place them next or near the Irish team in my interests...

Can you quote the post where you ask me if the Irish team represent Kerry? I'm not ignoring it as I don't see it and I've never claimed or implied they didn't.

Will I Amnt

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Can you quote the post where you ask me if the Irish team represent Kerry?

I said I felt represented by the Irish football team (and other Irish teams and Irish people in individual sports) and you said I was "banging on about representation", so assumed you took issue with that.

But it's clear now that in fact we are in agreement, the Irish team do represent me, Kerry, and indeed this country.

And ManU and Liverpool don't.

We are much more in agreement than perhaps we thought!

Intifada

Club football by a million miles. Ireland games are pretty much an extremely watered down version of Celtic games anyway, even down to the songs.

Will I Amnt

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I said I felt represented by the Irish football team (and other Irish teams and Irish people in individual sports) and you said I was "banging on about representation", so assumed you took issue with that.

But it's clear now that in fact we are in agreement, the Irish team do represent me, Kerry, and indeed this country.

And ManU and Liverpool don't.

We are much more in agreement than perhaps we thought!

So you didn't ask the question and I wasn't ignoring anything, glad we cleared that up.
There is plenty of things I would be in agreement with but goalposts are shifting all over this thread so it's hard to keep track.

Do you consider yourself a fan of Padraig Harrington, Katie Taylor, Sean Kelly or Sonia O'Sullivan?

Whippersnapper

Club all the way. I don't particularly care for the Irish team in any sport. I just don't relate to them at all. I feel like I belong to my club though.

Leroy42

Has to be international. There is no club anymore. The Man United team of last year is completely different to the united team of this year. So following a club is pointless, it means nothiong to the players or the managers, only the fans.

International, well you can only choose one (if you have any choice at all) and the players don't get much out of it (financially compared to their clubs) so it really is down to them wanting to play. They pull on the jersey for pride.

In the WC, a top player can't simply move to a better country, Ronaldo is stuck with Portugal. He knows there is little change of winning but he stills turns up and gives it a go. How many club players simply sulk and move to another club.

Will I Amnt

Leroy42 wrote: »

In the WC, a top player can't simply move to a better country, Ronaldo is stuck with Portugal. He knows there is little change of winning but he stills turns up and gives it a go. How many club players simply sulk and move to another club.

Aiden McGeady, James McCarthy, Darron Gibson...

Will I Amnt

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Do you consider yourself a fan of Padraig Harrington, Katie Taylor, Sean Kelly or Sonia O'Sullivan?

I would support them and root for them, if that's what you mean.

Certainly more so than Ian Poulter, Nicola Adams, Bradley Wiggins or Paula Ratcliffe, their English counterparts. Who might all be lovely people and good luck to them...just have no real affinity.

Will I Amnt

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I would support them and root for them, if that's what you mean.

Certainly more so than Ian Poulter, Nicola Adams, Bradley Wiggins or Paula Ratcliffe, their English counterparts. Who might all be lovely people and good luck to them...just have no real affinity.

I like darts, my favourite darts player is Scottish, I've often found myself physically shaking with nerves/adrenalin watching him in big games. If he gets drawn against Willie O'Connor, a Cork man, who I could count the number of matches I've seen on one hand, am I expected to just jump the fence and side with him?

Leroy42

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Aiden McGeady, James McCarthy, Darron Gibson...

Yes, but in international terms they lose out. In club terms they can simply move to pastures new and start kissing a new badge.

If a player doesn't want to play for his country fine, up to him/her, but that is a clear choice of play or no play.

Do Utd fans really have any affintity to the team of mercenaries they now call a team? Do you think Balotelli cares about Liverpool? Martinez was with Wigan until he led them down and then he scarpered to Everton. No issue with that but do Everton fans actually believe he would be there if Real came calling?

Will I Amnt

Will I Amnt wrote: »

I like darts, my favourite darts player is Scottish, I've often found myself physically shaking with nerves/adrenalin watching him in big games. If he gets drawn against Willie O'Connor, a Cork man, who I could count the number of matches I've seen on one hand, am I expected to just jump the fence and side with him?

I like Anderson, I like Wright, I've had the pleasure of meeting them. Tough men.

But if they were on stage v O'Connor or even Dolan or other NI players, I'd be rooting for the fellows from this island. And I'm sure they would expect nothing less if they were on a stage in front of Irish people, they are both well able to take it.

Iang87

Deleted User wrote: »

I like Anderson, I like Wright, I've had the pleasure of meeting them. Tough men.

But if they were on stage v O'Connor or even Dolan or other NI players, I'd be rooting for the fellows from this island. And I'm sure they would expect nothing less if they were on a stage in front of Irish people, they are both well able to take it.

But Why?

Iang87

Iang87 wrote: »

But Why?

Why would I as an Irish person root for Irish sports people?

I don't think I'd have the expertise in...is it sociology?...to explain why people identify with others of their own nationality, and support them.

It's not the be all and end all, mind you. There are Irish sports stars I have not had great time for. But if they're Irish, I will usually cheer them on, even if it's tiddleywinks.

Greyfox

Leroy42 wrote: »

Do Utd fans really have any affintity to the team...

We do, you can change your wife, religion or home but you can never, ever change your club

CSF

Greyfox wrote: »

We do, you can change your wife, religion or home but you can never, ever change your club

Well you can, but you shouldn't. In the same way that you shouldn't support some team that you've no real link with the area.

The notion that to pick a team randomly as a kid and stick with them, is more honourable (or whatever word you associate with that statement) than picking a random team as a kid and later realising that it's ridiculous and start supporting your local team, well that logic is absolutely absurd.

Greyfox

CSF wrote: »

... In the same way that you shouldn't support some team that you've no real link with the area..

Why not?

CSF

Greyfox wrote: »

Why not?

Teams are defined by geography for a reason, rather than red team, blue team, green team, yellow team, or team 1, 2, 3 or team A, B, C.

Manchester United were set up for the people of Manchester. It is great that we can enjoy so much high quality football on TV these days, and I like many clubs, but Manchester United is not your club, it belongs to the people of Manchester, as does Manchester City depending on your alliegance.

Beasty

CSF wrote: »

Teams are defined by geography for a reason, rather than red team, blue team, green team, yellow team, or team 1, 2, 3 or team A, B, C.

Manchester United were set up for the people of Manchester. It is great that we can enjoy so much high quality football on TV these days, and I like many clubs, but Manchester United is not your club, it belongs to the people of Manchester, as does Manchester City depending on your alliegance.

But Manchester United were formed by the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway, and certainly not "for the people" of Manchester. Surely only those people from Newton Heath (and in the case of City from West Gorton) should have such a geographic allegience. Of course they moved to Salford, so maybe their people from that city should be permitted to follow them also.

I come from a county that had no football league club. Do I have to support the one that was nearest to where I was born?

The answer is, of course, no. I am perfectly entitled to follow the club I have watched regularly, and indeed held a season ticket, over the past 35 years (and for most of those years they were a "local" club, but that's because my passion for them resulted in me seeking both a University place and subsequently a job in Manchester)

CSF

Beasty wrote: »

But Manchester United were formed by the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway, and certainly not "for the people" of Manchester. Surely only those people from Newton Heath (and in the case of City from West Gorton) should have such a geographic allegience. Of course they moved to Salford, so maybe their people from that city should be permitted to follow them also.

I come from a county that had no football league club. Do I have to support the one that was nearest to where I was born?

The answer is, of course, no. I am perfectly entitled to follow the club I have watched regularly, and indeed held a season ticket, over the past 35 years (and for most of those years they were a "local" club, but that's because my passion for them resulted in me seeking both a University place and subsequently a job in Manchester)

You're entitled to do whatever you choose, it's not what proper support was, is and will be in all the proper footballing countries of the world.

People who make that decision (which as we both agree you're perfectly entitled to do) would be mocked all the more being a United fan from Berlin or Turin than they are here, as Ireland really isn't a country that spawns football supporters for reasons which have been discussed at length in this thread (proximity, GAA etc)

COYVB

So in the overall hierarchy, where do we draw the line in terms of who you're supposed to support?

I was born in Drogheda. My father is from there. I was raised in Balbriggan. I went to college in Coolock. I socialized in Dublin city. I went to university in Wolverhampton. While there I socialized in Birmingham city. I then returned to Ireland and worked in Dublin city. Then I moved to Scarborough in the greater Toronto area, followed by Oshawa in the Durham Region.

So, in order, should I support...

Drogheda United (born there)
Dundalk (nearest 'other' loi side to birthplace)
Glebe North (biggest team in hometown)
Hyde Park (closest team to my house)
Balbriggan FC (other team in my hometown)
Sporting Fingal (nearest LOI side to my Irish home)
Bohemians, St. Pats, Shels or any of the Dublin sides since I spent most of my time closer to them than anyone else during college
Wolverhampton Wanderers (10 minute walk from my uni digs)
Birmingham City (because I tended to be closer to St. Andrew's by a hairs breadth while in brum)
Aston Villa (for the days b6 was closer)
North York Astros (closest CSL team to my first house in Canada)
Oshawa Kicks (closest to my current one)
Toronto FC (closest MLS side to me right now)

Which of the 15 am I supposed to support to be a proper fan? (For the record: former Drogs and AVFC season ticket holder, father introduced me to the former, cousin played for the latter's youths. Would, first and foremost class myself as a Villa fan rather than a drogs one, despite going to around 400 drogs games compared with 40-60 villa ones. I'm not sure why that's the case but it is)

CSF

COYVB wrote: »

So in the overall hierarchy, where do we draw the line in terms of who you're supposed to support?

I was born in Drogheda. My father is from there. I was raised in Balbriggan. I went to college in Coolock. I socialized in Dublin city. I went to university in Wolverhampton. While there I socialized in Birmingham city. I then returned to Ireland and worked in Dublin city. Then I moved to Scarborough in the greater Toronto area, followed by Oshawa in the Durham Region.

So, in order, should I support...

Drogheda United (born there)
Dundalk (nearest 'other' loi side to birthplace)
Glebe North (biggest team in hometown)
Hyde Park (closest team to my house)
Balbriggan FC (other team in my hometown)
Sporting Fingal (nearest LOI side to my Irish home)
Bohemians, St. Pats, Shels or any of the Dublin sides since I spent most of my time closer to them than anyone else during college
Wolverhampton Wanderers (10 minute walk from my uni digs)
Birmingham City (because I tended to be closer to St. Andrew's by a hairs breadth while in brum)
Aston Villa (for the days b6 was closer)
North York Astros (closest CSL team to my first house in Canada)
Oshawa Kicks (closest to my current one)
Toronto FC (closest MLS side to me right now)

Which of the 15 am I supposed to support to be a proper fan? (For the record: former Drogs and AVFC season ticket holder, father introduced me to the former, cousin played for the latter's youths. Would, first and foremost class myself as a Villa fan rather than a drogs one, despite going to around 400 drogs games compared with 40-60 villa ones. I'm not sure why that's the case but it is)

Drogheda first and foremost but that isn't to say that someone should only like one team and if I was living somewhere abroad be it Lille, Belgrade or Kansas Id sure as hell be going to all the home games trying to get into it as much as possible.

COYVB

Why Drogheda? Because the hospital I was born in is there?

COYVB

Also, who should my kids support? They sure as hell won't be able to follow loi on telly, so they'll be raised watching villa with their old man. That'll have a massive effect on them, yet they'll barely ever get the chance to set foot in villa park

Ferris_Bueller

COYVB wrote: »

Also, who should my kids support? They sure as hell won't be able to follow loi on telly, so they'll be raised watching villa with their old man. That'll have a massive effect on them, yet they'll barely ever get the chance to set foot in villa park

Where will your kids be born/raised? If you're living in Ireland I'd say there is almost as much of a chance a LoI team being on telly as there is Aston Villa, not exactly United or Liverpool who are on every other week. Your case is quite complex due to the amount of moving around you done, if I were you though I would probably support wherever I regard home.

COYVB

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

Where will your kids be born/raised? If you're living in Ireland I'd say there is almost as much of a chance a LoI team being on telly as there is Aston Villa, not exactly United or Liverpool who are on every other week. Your case is quite complex due to the amount of moving around you done, if I were you though I would probably support wherever I regard home.

I live in Canada, they'll be raised here

Beasty

Beasty wrote: »

...my passion for them resulted in me seeking both a University place and subsequently a job in Manchester...

But by any stretch...that's just mad!

I mean, think about it, it's a team you picked! You are perfectly to pick them...but then to base your career around that selection?

Did you ever look back on those days in Manchester and think you should have picked Tahiti Rovers and you'd have your belly to the sun?

Ferris_Bueller

COYVB wrote: »

I live in Canada, they'll be raised here

Well if they like football, I'd imagine they'll support one of the Canadian teams there? Of course nothing wrong with them following any of the teams you mentioned, but you would surely agree that it would be a bit crazy if Irish kids who were raised in Canada supported Aston Villa?

niallo27

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

Well if they like football, I'd imagine they'll support one of the Canadian teams there? Of course nothing wrong with them following any of the teams you mentioned, but you would surely agree that it would be a bit crazy if Irish kids who were raised in Canada supported Aston Villa?

It's only crazy if your narrow minded enough to think it.

Ferris_Bueller

niallo27 wrote: »

It's only crazy if your narrow minded enough to think it.

Of course you can support whoever you want, but if you are trying to find reasoning for supporting your team and you say "My dad used to socialise in Birmingham, so I support Aston Villa" I'd imagine most people would find that a strange reason. I suppose if your dad supported them you could say that it's tradition, but is it really if your dad only supported them because he socialised there?

Three main reasons I can think why someone would feel attached to a club;
1) Locality - they're your local team. Most fans worldwide use this I imagine, regardless of sport.
2) Quality - you enjoy football as a sport and want to watch it at a high level.
3) Tradition - your father, grandfather etc. supported the team so now you do too.

In real life (not on message boards) I would not bother to question who someone supports for one of the above reasons, it's generally how it goes. But in a case like this what applies? Aston Villa will not be a local club whatsoever (or ever have been), if you want to support a team based on quality, again you are not going to pick Aston Villa. Tradition would be the most applicable, but is it really tradition if your father just randomly picked them because he used to hang out there? I don't know the full details maybe it goes further back than that.

Apologies to COYVB, I'm not trying to single you out or question your support, I'm just trying to use this as an example if you had/have children.

Mickeroo

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

Of course you can support whoever you want, but if you are trying to find reasoning for supporting your team and you say "My dad used to socialise in Birmingham, so I support Aston Villa" I'd imagine most people would find that a strange reason. I suppose if your dad supported them you could say that it's tradition, but is it really if your dad only supported them because he socialised there?

Three main reasons I can think why someone would feel attached to a club;
1) Locality - they're your local team. Most fans worldwide use this I imagine, regardless of sport.
2) Quality - you enjoy football as a sport and want to watch it at a high level.
3) Tradition - your father, grandfather etc. supported the team so now you do too.

In real life (not on message boards) I would not bother to question who someone supports for one of the above reasons, it's generally how it goes. But in a case like this what applies? Aston Villa will not be a local club whatsoever (or ever have been), if you want to support a team based on quality, again you are not going to pick Aston Villa. Tradition would be the most applicable, but is it really tradition if your father just randomly picked them because he used to hang out there? I don't know the full details maybe it goes further back than that.

Apologies to COYVB, I'm not trying to single you out or question your support, I'm just trying to use this as an example if you had/have children.

Why your father picked a team is irrelevant to you though, particularly if he has encouraged you to support them all your life from an early age. These arguments are always very silly to me. Fanaticism is a psychological state, and an extremely illogical one, once you acheive that state you're pretty much stuck with it. Trying to rationalise it through geographical location etc. is a pointless excercise imo.

COYVB

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

Well if they like football, I'd imagine they'll support one of the Canadian teams there? Of course nothing wrong with them following any of the teams you mentioned, but you would surely agree that it would be a bit crazy if Irish kids who were raised in Canada supported Aston Villa?

Why would it be crazy when they'd be brought up watching them every weekend on TV with their father though? Everything is learned, and in their formative years they'd learn that Saturday morning is when villa are watched

Also, theyll be Canadian kids, not Irish kids

CSF

Mickeroo wrote: »

Why your father picked a team is irrelevant to you though, particularly if he has encouraged you to support them all your life from an early age. These arguments are always very silly to me. Fanaticism is a psychological state, and an extremely illogical one, once you acheive that state you're pretty much stuck with it. Trying to rationalise it through geographical location etc. is a pointless excercise imo.

It's actually not that illogical

COYVB

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

Tradition would be the most applicable, but is it really tradition if your father just randomly picked them because he used to hang out there? I don't know the full details maybe it goes further back than that.

I support villa because my cousin played with the youth team for a few years just as I was getting into football

Ferris_Bueller

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

2) Quality - you enjoy football as a sport and want to watch it at a high level...

Let's be honest, that's never a reason.

No 6 year old analyses the game and decides that, for them, Liverpool play a better brand of football than Monaco or Derry City, so they'll get the school bag.

It's a nonsense reason applied by adults to justify to themselves why they went for the glam of English teams over Irish ones.

COYVB

CSF wrote: »

It's actually not that illogical

If you're raised with constant exposure to a given team, any given team, regularly, and get to spend quality time with your old boy watching games (albeit on TV for geographical reasons), then you're very likely to end up having more than a passing interest in that team.

Replace the football team with a TV show, and try to argue it's illogical that you'd be a fan of the show as you grew up.

Mickeroo

CSF wrote: »

It's actually not that illogical

I understand why folks (including myself) get emotionally affected by people kicking a ball around a field but that doesn't make it logical.

Go into the games forum and dig up the Xbox One vs PS4 thread, you'll see folks foaming at the mouth over their preference for a particular electronic appliance. The thing is though, most of the arguments that flare up over soccer, whether it be LOI vs PL or Liverpool vs United are just as silly when you look at them objectively. Of course objectivity doesn't really have any place in an argument when it comes to being a fan, which is pretty much what I'm trying to say.

Ferris_Bueller

COYVB wrote: »

Why would it be crazy when they'd be brought up watching them every weekend on TV with their father though? Everything is learned, and in their formative years they'd learn that Saturday morning is when villa are watched

Also, theyll be Canadian kids, not Irish kids

This sounds more like a television show than a football club to me. Surely it would only be the same connection as any child has watching TV with their dad? I'm sure he would always have a soft spot for Villa, but if he ended up being a die hard Villa fan because he used to watch them on the telly with his dad...

COYVB wrote: »

I support villa because my cousin played with the youth team for a few years just as I was getting into football

As I said, I've no real issues with you choosing to support them, I can see why you did, I was just using your children in this scenario as an example.

Greyfox

CSF wrote: »

Teams are defined by geography for a reason, rather than red team, blue team, green team, yellow team, or team 1, 2, 3 or team A, B, C.

Manchester United were set up for the people of Manchester. It is great that we can enjoy so much high quality football on TV these days, and I like many clubs, but Manchester United is not your club, it belongs to the people of Manchester, as does Manchester City depending on your alliegance.

Ireland represents everyone in Ireland as you have to be Irish to play but with clubs its not the same thing. When football clubs started first the geography thing was very relevant but football has changed completely now. The fact that the next Manchester derby may have nobody playing in it from Manchester shows the reality is clubs are global products now looking to get as many fans as possible even if their from the other side of the world. Also I’m sure theirs lots of people from Manchester who feel that neither club represents them as both clubs are owned by people outside Europe.

Just because your from an area doesn’t mean your team is automatically entitled to your support, as someone else said your local team might be run by horrible people that make the club have a negative impact on your area. You should try to support a local team but a person is also entitled to be of the opinion that your local team are not worth 90 minutes of your time as theirs other things you can be doing with your limited free time.

If supporting a team not from your area gives you a far better social life and allows you to have stronger friendships with people and gives you a few thousand hours of enjoyment what right does anybody have to try and say I shouldn’t be doing something that makes my life more enjoyable and exciting? Is their a supporters rulebook somewhere I don’t know about?

Ferris_Bueller

Deleted User wrote: »

Let's be honest, that's never a reason.

No 6 year old analyses the game and decides that, for them, Liverpool play a better brand of football than Monaco or Derry City, so they'll get the school bag.

It's a nonsense reason applied by adults to justify to themselves why they went for the glam of English teams over Irish ones.

Also I agree that no child uses quality as a reason to follow someone, they are unaware of the quality at that age. However I can see why someone would choose a team based on quality when they are older - but what I don't see is why they feel loyal to this team.

Beasty

Deleted User wrote: »

But by any stretch...that's just mad!

I mean, think about it, it's a team you picked! You are perfectly to pick them...but then to base your career around that selection?

Did you ever look back on those days in Manchester and think you should have picked Tahiti Rovers and you'd have your belly to the sun?

Haha!!

One thing I should say upfront is my career certainly didn't turn out badly;)

It would be nice to think it was all part of a masterplan, but that certainly was not the case. It was more a case of optimising the opportunities that came my way.

At school I was a pretty good mathmetician and maths was the only deree I was ever going to go for. Fortunately at that time Manchester had the best maths department in the UK outside Cambridge, and I never fancied the Oxbridge life. So basically Manchester was my first choice, but my other options were within an hour or so of Manchester by train.

So I turned up and started attending home and away. I walked the 3 miles to my first match at OT, just trying to take everything in. I saw every home match during the remainder of that season. The next season I forked out about 20 quid for a League Match Ticket book in the Stretford End. Throughout this time I was dossing around at University, but still managed to get a half decent honours degree. Getting a job at the end of it was a bit more challenging. Think I had around 100 rejection letters before finally getting a job in Leeds. I joined up with the local supporters club and continued travelling to both home and away matches (and indeed a few Wembley finals) for the 3 years I was in Leeds. As soon as I gained a further qualification (as a Chartered Accountant) I headed back to Manchester to "further my career" (amongst other things:))

I struggled down to Upton Park for that final match of the 1994/95 season, and was back down in London the following weekend to see us lose to Everton in the Cup Final a few weeks after back surgery (most of the dozen or so home matches I missed during the 80s and 90s were after the 4 back operations I underwent. One day I was in hospital undergoing an epidural in the morning but still managed to struggle to OT that evening to see a 5-0 demolition of City). One job and 22 years later work brought me to Ireland. That means I don't get over as much as I would like, but I still have my season ticket and think nothing of spending getting on for €400 every time I do head over for a match.

So I guess my career was formed on the back of my passion for Man Utd, but equally it has flourished alongside my obsession for the club

COYVB

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

if he ended up being a die hard Villa fan because he used to watch them on the telly with his dad...

Let's say I had a kid that was born in Birmingham and lived in Aston for 2 years before moving abroad. Would it be any more acceptable for that kid to be a die hard Villa fan, despite still only being able to watch on TV and, ultimately, not really having any memory or ties to the area?

I'm just trying to figure out the logic here. People can have a passion for space exploration and dedicate their lives to being ardent followers of it without going to space, for example.

What exactly is a die hard supporter of a team? Professional football teams are businesses. They're companies run to make money. Supporting any of them is completely illogical, really.

If I'm born and bred in Birmingham City, chances are there's an amateur team closer to me than Aston Villa or Birmingham City, and that team will be comprised of people actually from the area, who you'd actually have something in common with. Wouldn't the "proper die hard football fan" favour them over the professional team further away?

Why should the guy from balbriggan, by this logic, support an LOI team outside the town when there's 3 Leinster Senior League teams in it?

Where do you stop filtering it down? Where doesit suit the "proper fan" argument to call it quits on drilling further and further down? Does the "proper fan" not follow ANY team, but rather wants to watch them all?

Will I Amnt

COYVB wrote: »

I'm just trying to figure out the logic here.

There's your problem, goalposts will shift.

The Golden Miller

With some exceptions, Irish fans following teams in the Premiership are just glory hunting bandwagon sheep. Funny how the vast majority all follow United, Liverpool,Chelsea and Arsenal. Some Man City jerseys popping up around the place since they became successful. You used to see the Leeds jerseys during the early 2000's. It's pathetic really. Then you have the fans who randomly pick the lower teams for the sake of it, to seem more real, to prove they aren't just doing it just to be glory hunters. All in all, a pathetic superficial bunch.

WesternZulu

Could you imagine anyone from Engand getting emotional over Rovers results and how they fare in the LOI...it would seem illogical and mad if they have no rational connection to the place.

If you think about the same scenario the other way around it doesn't make much sense either.

Mickeroo

The Golden Miller wrote: »

With some exceptions, Irish fans following teams in the Premiership are just glory hunting bandwagon sheep. Funny how the vast majority all follow United, Liverpool,Chelsea and Arsenal. Some Man City jerseys popping up around the place since they became successful. You used to see the Leeds jerseys during the early 2000's. It's pathetic really. Then you have the fans who randomly pick the lower teams for the sake of it, to seem more real, to prove they aren't just doing it just to be glory hunters. All in all, a pathetic superficial bunch.

Yeah, because that's what is going through a child's head when they fixate on a particular team, the conniving little bastards.

WesternZulu wrote: »

Could you imagine anyone from Engand getting emotional over Rovers results and how they fare in the LOI...it would seem illogical and mad if they have no rational connection to the place.

If you think about the same scenario the other way around it doesn't make much sense either.

It doesn't work the other way around though, because the cultural link between the countries is different for each nationality, brits weren't working here in the 60s, 70s and 80s and going to LOI matches. Also LOI isn't promoted over there like the premiership is over here. The comparisons with other countries doesn't work because it ignores the factors which exist in Ireland that have lead to our affinity for English teams in the first place.

COYVB

WesternZulu wrote: »

Could you imagine anyone from Engand getting emotional over Rovers results and how they fare in the LOI...it would seem illogical and mad if they have no rational connection to the place.

If you think about the same scenario the other way around it doesn't make much sense either.

There are plenty of English supporters who would follow, for example, Arsenal but not be from London