More Crap on Adams, Mod Warning in OP.

Xenophile

Sinn Féin president Gerry Adams has described how the IRA acted as a police force in many nationalists areas in Northern Ireland during the Troubles.


How would he know as he was never a member of the IRA!

Henlars67

Xenophile wrote: »

Sinn Féin president Gerry Adams has described how the IRA acted as a police force in many nationalists areas in Northern Ireland during the Troubles.


How would he know as he was never a member of the IRA!

I was never a member of the IRA and I could describe instances how they acted as a police force

porsche959

Oh dear. This one's about to backfire on certain parties' faces.

Front page of Daily Mirror tomorrow.

We will see soon who is genuinely campaigning for justice for CSA victims and who is exploiting the issue for opportunistic/party political reasons.

davycc

Xenophile wrote: »

How would he know as he was never a member of the IRA!

The humour is strong in this one! Ever considered a journalism career with the indo?

michael999999

porsche959 wrote: »

Oh dear. This one's about to backfire on certain parties' faces.

Front page of Daily Mirror tomorrow.

We will see soon who is genuinely campaigning for justice for CSA victims and who is exploiting the issue for opportunistic/party political reasons.

Any chance of a link?

porsche959

michael999999 wrote: »

Any chance of a link?

https://twitter.com/DailyMirror/status/523948548727918592

davycc

porsche959 wrote: »

Oh dear. This one's about to backfire on certain parties' faces.

Front page of Daily Mirror tomorrow.

We will see soon who is genuinely campaigning for justice for CSA victims and who is exploiting the issue for opportunistic/party political reasons.

Have you got a link please? An educated guess would be Kenny and m.martin.

porsche959

davycc wrote: »

Have you got a link please? An educated guess would be Kenny and m.martin.

No, this is bigger than silly little party political games in Leinister House.

There is a lot more going on behind the scenes than people realise. Particularly people (and I don't mean you) who rely on their news and views from the likes of the Sunday Independent.

gunny558

Emm... it says theres a paedophile IRA chief... who is it? Is this the same guy that allegedly raped Cahil? Or this is a different IRA lad?

EDIT: Just after looking at the fine print... this lad raped a 14 year old girl. The Cahil girl was 16 when she was raped. Which leaves me wondering? You say this cahil story has backfired... because of a whole different rape emerging? I dont see the link???

porsche959

gunny558 wrote: »

Emm... it says theres a paedophile IRA chief... who is it? Is this the same guy that allegedly raped Cahil? Or this is a different IRA lad?

They seem to be saying Cahill was himself a child abuser and was blackmailed by British state security.

funnights74

Winty wrote: »

Do you trust Mr Adams?
He is the only person on the planet who thinks he was not in the IRA.
The man is a lier pure and simple

All politicians are liars, manipulators of the truth to suit their own agenda.

gunny558

porsche959 wrote: »

They seem to be saying Cahill was himself a child abuser and was blackmailed by British state security.

Cahill? As in Joe Cahill? So he was a paedo aswell? This is getting messy very fast.. :eek: Im still not sure how this has "backfired" on FF..?? If anything they're gonna love this?

Henlars67

gunny558 wrote: »

Cahill? As in Joe Cahill? So he was a paedo aswell? This is getting messy very fast.. :eek: Im still not sure how this has "backfired" on FF..?? If anything they're gonna love this?

Where has that suggestion come from?

There is no way Cahill was a paedo, or a British agent

michael999999

gunny558 wrote: »

Cahill? As in Joe Cahill? So he was a paedo aswell? This is getting messy very fast.. :eek: Im still not sure how this has "backfired" on FF..?? If anything they're gonna love this?

Maybe Fianna fail can offer to pay the compensation on he's behalf aswell?

davycc

porsche959 wrote: »

No, this is bigger than silly little party political games in Leinister House.

There is a lot more going on behind the scenes than people realise. Particularly people (and I don't mean you) who rely on their news and views from the likes of the Sunday Independent.

Thanks for the link I wasn't expecting that story at all. Never heard that tale about Joe Cahill before... was thinking it would be another government troll like Joan Bruton going on another mentalist rant with impunity.

gunny558

Henlars67 wrote: »

Where has that suggestion come from?

There is no way Cahill was a paedo, or a British agent

And how can you be so sure..??

porsche959

gunny558 wrote: »

Im still not sure how this has "backfired" on FF..?? If anything they're gonna love this?

Maybe not on FF, more on the West Brit types that go on and on about the perfidy of the IRA but turn a blind eye to British state security recruiting paedophiles (e.g. as in Kincora and elsewhere)

Godge

Henlars67 wrote: »

Where has that suggestion come from?

There is no way Cahill was a paedo, or a British agent

Who are the Mirror talking about?

how many child sexual abusers were in the IRA?

porsche959

Godge wrote: »

how many child sexual abusers were in the IRA?

How many child sexual abusers were in the UUP, DUP, UDR and of those, how many were working for M15?

Let us know when youve researched the matter. Cheers!

Phoebas

Godge wrote: »

Who are the Mirror talking about?

how many child sexual abusers were in the IRA?

Secretive, authoritarian organisation full of zealots who valued their own reputation over the people they claimed to serve.

Probably one or two more.

porsche959

The full story is up, and yes, they are claiming Joe Cahill was a paedophile and was blackmailed by British state security.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ira-chief-paedophile-double-agent-4466798

porsche959

*** Waits for flurry of posts from the usual suspects full of righteous anger demanding M15 open the books on all the paedos they covered up for over the years - thus facilitating child abuse. ****

porsche959

Phoebas wrote: »

Secretive, authoritarian organisation full of zealots who valued their own reputation over the people they claimed to serve.

Probably one or two more.

The above is arguably equally applicable to, for example, M15. And that's not 'whataboutery'. It's just looking for consistency in addressing child abuse in society, is all.

Phoebas

porsche959 wrote: »

The above is arguably equally applicable to, for example, M15. And that's not 'whataboutery'. It's just looking for consistency in addressing child abuse in society, is all.

I agree and I sure hope that the relevant authorities in the UK fully investigate MI5. I definitely wouldn't want anybody in MI5 who facilitated the cover up of sexual abuse to be in a position of power in this state.

Godge

Phoebas wrote: »

I agree and I sure hope that the relevant authorities in the UK fully investigate MI5. I definitely wouldn't want anybody in MI5 who facilitated the cover up of sexual abuse to be in a position of power in this state.

I agree completely. No child sexual abuse should be covered up.

MI5 should release any information they have.

Godge

Henlars67 wrote: »

Where has that suggestion come from?

There is no way Cahill was a paedo, or a British agent

It seems now that SF/IRA had at least three child sexual abusers in their ranks.

Liam Adams, Joe Cahill and Morris.

One question that has been bothering me about Gerry Adams' statement tonight. How come Liam Adams was spared the full force of the IRA policing effort?

Godge

Pearse Doherty: "I do believe her in terms of the abuse she received".

Such mealy-mouthed words. Half-belief.

duckcfc

All i can do is lol at the Joe Cahill story and the funny part of it all is that half the country will believe it lol.

duckcfc

And another note, any other country holds its revolutionary leaders in high esteem but here in west Brit Ireland, they are dragged threw the mud with allsorts of sh1te! The Irish sure are a funny aul bunch lol

Godge

duckcfc wrote: »

And another note, any other country holds its revolutionary leaders in high esteem but here in west Brit Ireland, they are dragged threw the mud with allsorts of sh1te! The Irish sure are a funny aul bunch lol

Most other countries hold their religious leaders in high esteem. Our ones hid child abuse too, just like your so-called "revolutionary" leaders.

Yarf Yarf

I believe her, but I suspect she is being used as a political pawn by people who have no interest in her wellbeing or in getting her justice, but simply in slinging mud at Sinn Fein. The people who are looking at her case as a chance to gain political leverage are incredibly exploitive too. Some very sketchy characters on both sides of this issue as far as I can see and sadly I don't imagine this woman will get what she's looking for at all from this media circus.

I have to say, Irish politics is getting more and more tiresome all the time.

Henlars67

Godge wrote: »

It seems now that SF/IRA had at least three child sexual abusers in their ranks.

Liam Adams, Joe Cahill and Morris.

One question that has been bothering me about Gerry Adams' statement tonight. How come Liam Adams was spared the full force of the IRA policing effort?

There's no evidence to suggest Cahill was a paedo. A Daily Mirror anonymous source isn't going to cut it for anyone with half a brain.

duckcfc

Henlars67 wrote: »

There's no evidence to suggest Cahill was a paedo. A Daily Mirror anonymous source isn't going to cut it for anyone with half a brain.

Right so it goes like this, the Brits owned Cahill after this abuse of 14 yr old and let him sort the arms/Semtex from Gaddafi, yeah seems legit to me lol.

porsche959

Godge wrote: »

It seems now that SF/IRA had at least three child sexual abusers in their ranks.

Liam Adams, Joe Cahill and Morris.

Everyone knows that there are paedophiles in all elements of society, everyone also knows that there were paedophiles in Irish catholic society and also at the upper echelons of UK society (peadophilia in boarding schools and the upper classes, Jimmy Savile et al, politician paedos like Cyril Smith and the ex-Tory minister that cannot be named even though everyone knows who it is, etc) the issue under discussion is whether SF covered up for them and/or dealt inappropriately with complaints that were made.

Do try and keep up, otherwise people might think you're a moronic Sindobot.

porsche959

I am reading on Twitter that the Provies assassinated Jill Dando on the orders of their M15 controllers because she was about to expose Jimmy Savile and others.

MMKAY, I think that's a conspiracy theory too far for me, much as there's something to be said for thinking outside the box!

porsche959

Godge wrote: »

Pearse Doherty: "I do believe her in terms of the abuse she received".

Such mealy-mouthed words. Half-belief.

Pearse Doherty is not the only one to give 'mealy-mouthed words' in response to questions that may implicate members of his party.

Ah s.hit, silly me, sorry, I forgot, this is the thread were we lay into Sinn Fein and call them bad peado-protectors (and is no way connected to current polling of SF as compared to, say, FF or FG, or anything of that nature, no, not at all).

gunny558

porsche959 wrote: »

Ah s.hit, silly me, sorry, I forgot, this is the thread were we lay into Sinn Fein and call them bad peado-protectors (and is no way connected to current polling of SF as compared to, say, FF or FG, or anything of that nature, no, not at all).

Well in fairness, nobody is saying you cant talk about that stuff.... it seems one of the big issues here for people on boards is every time something bad is said about SF or GA we end up throwing links back in their face saying "look what your guy did"..... its not really a healthy debate or going to clear GA name.

porsche959

Sir Anthony Blunt was outed as a spy by Margaret Thatcher in the House of Commons in order, it is claimed, to put manners on the senior civil service, but, notably, she did not out him as a child abuser (which he undoubtedly was).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/november/16/newsid_3907000/3907233.stm


"Now then, now then!" as a now deceased DJ was fond of remarking.

"What do we have here?"

porsche959

gunny558 wrote: »

Well in fairness, nobody is saying you cant talk about that stuff.... it seems one of the big issues here for people on boards is every time something bad is said about SF or GA we end up throwing links back in their face saying "look what your guy did"..... its not really a healthy debate or going to clear GA name.

I'm afraid you're mistaken. I am not a 'Gerry Adams guy'. I am not even a Sinn Fein supporter (I dislike his party for various reasons, most of them too complicated to get into on here, and especially not in this thread. Basically, I think they're opportunistic, but mind you, if so, they're not necessarily any worse than FF or FG.)

I am merely commenting on the utter craven hypocrisy of those who lay into Sinn Fein over child abuse scandals, but stay remarkably silent on issues such as, for example, scandals implicating the Irish and indeed UK establishment during the years of the Troubles (last time I checked, Sinn Fein was not in charge of governance on this isle, north or south, during the many decades that hundreds if not thousands of children were abused and neglected in STATE-RUN orphanages and care homes).

So, while I am not an SF supporter, and don't even particularly like the party, if I see people laying into SF over alleged failings in the areas of child care, while also failing to call out other establishment parties (including one, that last time I checked,was in government for most of our history since independence) on the same issue, then, yep, I'll call those posters out on their cynicism, cheap political opportunism, hypocrisy and double standards - every time.

uck51js9zml2yt

duckcfc wrote: »

And another note, any other country holds its revolutionary leaders in high esteem but here in west Brit Ireland, they are dragged threw the mud with allsorts of sh1te! The Irish sure are a funny aul bunch lol

You're not serious.. Are you?
What revolution? It was a terrorist campaign and nothing else.

Phoebas

duckcfc wrote: »

And another note, any other country holds its revolutionary leaders in high esteem but here in west Brit Ireland, they are dragged threw the mud with allsorts of sh1te! The Irish sure are a funny aul bunch lol

These guys weren't our revolutionary leaders; they were terrorists. And the Irish people consistently rejected them and their political wing all the time they were active.

the_syco

duckcfc wrote: »

And another note, any other country holds its revolutionary leaders in high esteem but here in west Brit Ireland, they are dragged threw the mud with allsorts of sh1te! The Irish sure are a funny aul bunch lol

Michael Collins was a "revolutionary leader". Gerry Adams is a politician linked to a terrorist cell who made money from post office robberies and organised crime and killing more catholics than the "other side" whilst al the time claiming to be the "good guys".

Yarf Yarf wrote: »

I believe her, but I suspect she is being used as a political pawn by people who have no interest in her wellbeing or in getting her justice, but simply in slinging mud at Sinn Fein.

Yup, but I'd say she knows this, and is going along with it as last time she went it alone, she was warned off by the IRA.

porsche959 wrote: »

(and is no way connected to current polling of SF as compared to, say, FF or FG, or anything of that nature, no, not at all).

If it were anyone else, I'd call bull, but it seems all Irish parties don't see anything as "too low" to get a vote, from the mainstream to the loonies.

gunny558

porsche959 wrote: »

I'm afraid you're mistaken. I am not a 'Gerry Adams guy'. I am not even a Sinn Fein supporter (I dislike his party for various reasons, most of them too complicated to get into on here, and especially not in this thread. Basically, I think they're opportunistic, but mind you, if so, they're not necessarily any worse than FF or FG.)

I am merely commenting on the utter craven hypocrisy of those who lay into Sinn Fein over child abuse scandals, but stay remarkably silent on issues such as, for example, scandals implicating the Irish and indeed UK establishment during the years of the Troubles (last time I checked, Sinn Fein was not in charge of governance on this isle, north or south, during the many decades that hundreds if not thousands of children were abused and neglected in STATE-RUN orphanages and care homes).

So, while I am not an SF supporter, and don't even particularly like the party, if I see people laying into SF over alleged failings in the areas of child care, while also failing to call out other establishment parties (including one, that last time I checked,was in government for most of our history since independence) on the same issue, then, yep, I'll call those posters out on their cynicism, cheap political opportunism, hypocrisy and double standards - every time.

Right well listen I am a SF GA supporter and during a team debate I had the arse tore out of me by someone from FF.

And its got me wondering. During the debates we basically threw dirt and called people hypocrites and pulled skeletons out of their closets. And to be honest I never quite realised thats what we did.... not on those words.... the thought process was a bit more like "oh well your one to talk...."

So anyway, I got the ass tore out of me and then I started noticing I was doing it.... and then I started noticing it on here.

During debates, same as whats happened right here in this thread... there is an issue highlighted about Gerry Adams and soon enough we are saying "look what cameron did", "look what thatcher did"..... "do you know the MI5 knowingly employed a paedo"... "do you know what FF did"... "the media doesnt like us" etc

There is another debate on this Thursday about GA and the Cahill girl.... and I just know Im gonna have my ass handed to me again. Your obviously an up to speed guy (along with a few others on here)..... Id like see a proper debate take place on here and see some good arguments put forward and defended..... and not... as you say.... continusoly pointing out of hypocrisy.

gallag

At the end of the day anyone engaged or embroiled in child rape should all be treated equally. There will be pedos and people that facilitated there actions in all walks of society, surely not just a SF problem but whataboutery is pointless unless Jimmy saval etc are trying to get elected to office at this present time in your country. that's the bitter pill to swallow.

Barely There

duckcfc wrote: »

And another note, any other country holds its revolutionary leaders in high esteem but here in west Brit Ireland, they are dragged threw the mud with allsorts of sh1te! The Irish sure are a funny aul bunch lol

It's quite strange all right the way most people consider them to be a bunch of murdering psychopaths and scumbags.


Can't imagine why.

uck51js9zml2yt

Barely There wrote: »

It's quite strange all right the way most people consider them to be a bunch of murdering psychopaths and scumbags.


Can't imagine why.

We're all wrong and history will show him to be a saint *



*don't believe what I wrote

MouseTail

gunny558 wrote: »

There is another debate on this Thursday about GA and the Cahill girl.... and I just know Im gonna have my ass handed to me again.

what is it with the casual misogyny demonstrated through language used by SF supporters on here. That is leaving aside some of the more overt sexist bile I have read regarding this case. Is it indivitive of a wider anti female thread running through the republican movement. GA talks the talk in his statement about sexual violence, justice and equal rights, but this case has truly opened by eyes to the role and views of women in SF/IRA. I would love to hear the voices of some female SF supporters on this.

Happyman42

Barely There wrote: »

It's quite strange all right the way most people consider them to be a bunch of murdering psychopaths and scumbags.


Can't imagine why.

This is the kind of statement that always gets me wondering about the level of insight some posters have about what went on and what is going on.

If what you say is true 'that most people consider them to be.....etc etc' then how do you explain the simple fact that when people where free to vote they overwhelmingly voted for those that some on here like to characterise as 'terrorists, intimidators, psychopaths, murderers and other names banned on this forum etcetc'.
How do you explain that, I mean has that happened anywhere else on the planet?
To 'elect' is to reward somebody with permission to represent you and the people of N.I. have done that (and they had a choice of nationalist parties too) again and again and as far as I can see will continue to do it.
Would it be that 'most people' in NI don't see them that way and that a growing number in Southern Ireland are seeing it too?

Creative Juices

The bottom line for many people is that Adams is not a credible party leader or potential Taoiseach. He loses votes for SF, bigtime. I reckon he is a blocker for many people moving away from the usual suspects (FF, FG, Labour) to Sinn Fein. Sinn Fein know this now, the issue is how long it will take them to sort it.

Happyman42

Creative Juices wrote: »

The bottom line for many people is that Adams is not a credible party leader or potential Taoiseach. He loses votes for SF, bigtime. I reckon he is a blocker for many people moving away from the usual suspects (FF, FG, Labour) to Sinn Fein. Sinn Fein know this now, the issue is how long it will take them to sort it.

I am not a member of SF but I don't see any shred of evidence of that tbh. SF, like republicans in general, would be well used to this cyclical round of allegation, designed for one purpose, by sections of the media and political opponents, out of ideas on how to legitimately counter their rise in support.
It would tend to harden support more than take it away.
If it wasn't GA it would be something else. GA will leave the stage at some point and then we will be getting the sensationalist exposés on Mary Lou or Pearse or whoever succeeds him.