The Missing (BBC drama)

BetsyEllen

Am I right in thinking that Isla is a transvestite prostitute?
Or did she just look a bit manly?

ariana`

BetsyEllen wrote: »

Am I right in thinking that Isla is a transvestite prostitute?
Or did she just look a bit manly?

You are right

And i doubt a man who is into transvestites for kicks would also be into young girls?

BetsyEllen

ariana` wrote: »

You are right

And i doubt a man who is into transvestites for kicks would also be into young girls?

Yes that's exactly where my thoughts were going...so I don't think she has any relevance to the story other than showing us Henry's sexual preferences.

ariana`

BetsyEllen wrote: »

Yes that's exactly where my thoughts were going...so I don't think she has any relevance to the story other than showing us Henry's sexual preferences.

Well she also helped to confirm he was murdered and didn't commit suicide, because when she saw his already dead body there was no car in the drive but when his body was found later the car was in the drive... which is enough to convince Baptiste he was murdered and the scene was set to look like a suicide.

But i still wonder if there's more to her... i just haven't a clue what

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

ariana` wrote: »

Well she also helped to confirm he was murdered and didn't commit suicide, because when she saw his already dead body there was no car in the drive but when his body was found later the car was in the drive... which is enough to convince Baptiste he was murdered and the scene was set to look like a suicide.

How would that play out though?

Was he killed somewhere else and then placed at home? Or did someone kill him at his house, escape in his car and then leave it back? Was he killed wherever he had gone himself in his car? But why not leave the body and car back at the same time? Unless.... they moved his body in the car, leaving trace evidence in the car, so after placing the body they had to take the car away to clean it?

I don't know! Whether his death is connected to the girls or not I'm still not sure but there's definitely something suss about his death, but I can't figure out the sequence of events that lead to his body being there without his car?

ariana`

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

How would that play out though?

Was he killed somewhere else and then placed at home? Or did someone kill him at his house, escape in his car and then leave it back? Was he killed wherever he had gone himself in his car? But why not leave the body and car back at the same time? Unless.... they moved his body in the car, leaving trace evidence in the car, so after placing the body they had to take the car away to clean it?

I don't know! Whether his death is connected to the girls or not I'm still not sure but there's definitely something suss about his death, but I can't figure out the sequence of events that lead to his body being there without his car?

I don't know where he was killed but it confirmed there was a cover up as somebody moved the car after his death which means he died in suspicious circumstances.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

ariana` wrote: »

I don't know where he was killed but it confirmed there was a cover up as somebody moved the car after his death which means he died in suspicious circumstances.

Yeah, I agree there's something not right about it, I'm just spit balling ideas for how/why the car was missing when Ilsa discovered the body. She was waiting outside for a good while too, which suggests the body was put there, or he was killed there, at least a few hours before Ilsa was there.

Ceist_Beag

Definitely looked like he was killed where he lay as there was blood all around his head - I doubt he could have been killed elsewhere and placed where he lay and have it look the way it did. Possibly the most likely answer here is that whoever killed him took his car to do something and came back later with it - thinking that nobody would have come across him while they were gone. What that something was I don't know but I'm sure it ties in with the story here somehow and probably will explain why Sophie went to his grave.

Kettleson

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Yeah, I agree there's something not right about it, I'm just spit balling ideas for how/why the car was missing when Ilsa discovered the body. She was waiting outside for a good while too, which suggests the body was put there, or he was killed there, at least a few hours before Ilsa was there.

If she is telling the truth

dollyk

The dna match to alice,s dad ?
Maybe he fathered another child ?
Do we have any proof that alice ? was ever with sofie.


oh what if alice went on her own accord ?
and comes back to stop everyone looking for her.
sofie was taken to keep alice company, thats why they looked like they were having fun
at the park, Then alice gets sick, so she has to be sent to hospital.
and I think stone is pretending to be senile .

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

dollyk wrote: »

and I think stone is pretending to be senile .

He s**t his pants and had a virtual stranger wash and change him. If he's faking that's serious commitment.

ariana`

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

He s**t his pants and had a virtual stranger wash and change him. If he's faking that's serious commitment.

Agreed. I don't think he is faking. He was showing early signs in 2014 as well eg. His confusion over where Eve was born.

SusieBlue

Well at least now we know for sure that the girl who came back is actually Sophie. The plot is really starting to come together.

EagererBeaver

Very different episode tonight! I thought it was probably the worst of the series so far to be honest - all very slap on the face and much mystery.

SusieBlue

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Very different episode tonight! I thought it was probably the worst of the series so far to be honest - all very slap on the face and much mystery.

Ironically I think it was one of the better ones. Finally, a few straightforward explanations were given that tied up a few loose ends nicely.
I think the episode took a different direction to all the others so far but I really enjoyed it.

EagererBeaver

WhiteRoses wrote: »

Ironically I think it was one of the better ones. Finally, a few straightforward explanations were given that tied up a few loose ends nicely.
I think the episode took a different direction to all the others so far but I really enjoyed it.

Each to their own I guess. I don't want everything tied up nicely with a bow on top!

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

So I think between us we have most of this cracked.

The girls were sick and that's why Sophie was let out. Presumably the other girls died and that's why they switched the body in the shed, to cover their tracks. I think Sophie meased up while in the ambulance by saying her own name which is what really connected the girls. The idea to go to Switzerland came a year later.

It's possible that there was a girl for each army person. Gattrick, Stone and Reid. When the girls got sick they each decided what to do with their own girl. Stone may have just killed whichever girl was his which is what Sophie meant when she said "how can you live with yourself". Reid may have panicked and didn't want to go along with their cover up so they killed him too.

Agree tonight's episode was a bit dull compared to previous ones. Some questions answered but none of the important ones.

appledrop

I really enjoyed the episode. It felt about 2 hours long in a good way! Finally some of the loose ends are starting to come together + make sense.

EagererBeaver

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

So I think between us we have most of this cracked.

The girls were sick and that's why Sophie was let out. Presumably the other girls died and that's why they switched the body in the shed, to cover their tracks. I think Sophie meased up while in the ambulance by saying her own name which is what really connected the girls. The idea to go to Switzerland came a year later.

It's possible that there was a girl for each army person. Gattrick, Stone and Reid. When the girls got sick they each decided what to do with their own girl. Stone may have just killed whichever girl was his which is what Sophie meant when she said "how can you live with yourself". Reid may have panicked and didn't want to go along with their cover up so they killed him too.

Agree tonight's episode was a bit dull compared to previous ones. Some questions answered but none of the important ones.

Not quite sure how you can say that when so much of your post is conjecture.

Kettleson

"The Loyal Tank Regiment" or whatever it was. That's who dunnit.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Not quite sure how you can say that when so much of your post is conjecture.

Well Gattrick pretty much admitted that Sophie was let out to go to hospital and that what they did after was supposed to make sure people stopped looking for the girls.

A few people here had suggested she was let out to get treatment. So it seems that's correct.

Myself, and maybe a few others, suggested the pretending to be Alice and switching the bodies in the shed were to tie up loose ends. That also seems to be correct.

The connection between Reid, Stone and the missing girls may by conjecture but I don't think any of it is too much of a leap.

K-9

Well the plot thickens!

Seemed a bit rushed tonight, trying to set it up for the last 2 episodes.

So the army was in charge of Sophie's fire scene and we know a body was swapped somewhere and somehow. Burying a body in the grave maybe far fetched, but we know a body was stored somewhere and had to be moved at some stage, so not out of the question.

I suppose the question is why would Sophie visit Reid's grave if she is taken by Gettrick? Possibly Alice buried there, though could be Lena.

The third person must be Gettrick? And the butcher's wife will uncover that next week.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Well we know for sure the body in the shed is not the girl who came back, who we now know for sure is Sophie.

So that means the body belongs to Alice or Lena. If it's Lena that means someone also interfered with the DNA test. Which isn't beyond the realms of possibility but it leaves the question where is Alice? Likewise, if the body was Alice the question is where is Lena?

The girls seemed to be very close. Sophie knew so much about Alice's family and life. If she was that close to Lena too it makes sense, to me, that she would take the opportunity to say goodbye to her by visiting her grave. That's why I think she's in Reid's grave.

Kettleson

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Well we know for sure the body in the shed is not the girl who came back, who we now know for sure is Sophie.

So that means the body belongs to Alice or Lena. If it's Lena that means someone also interfered with the DNA test. Which isn't beyond the realms of possibility but it leaves the question where is Alice? Likewise, if the body was Alice the question is where is Lena?

The girls seemed to be very close. Sophie knew so much about Alice's family and life. If she was that close to Lena too it makes sense, to me, that she would take the opportunity to say goodbye to her by visiting her grave. That's why I think she's in Reid's grave.

Why does that mean "the body belongs to Alice or Lena"? It can't be anyone else?

K-9

But really the only thing we have on the 2 missing girls is the glasses and the DNA. We know the glasses belong to Lena, Alice's DNA could easily have been inserted by Gettrick seeing as we know the army had access to the fire scene.

EagererBeaver

Kettleson wrote: »

Why does that mean "the body belongs to Alice or Lena"? It can't be anyone else?

It could be, but introducing another victim at this stage would be slightly cheap.

dollyk

aw well I was on the button thinking he let her out to get treatment.
:P

kellso81

i think the DNA switching is a red herring and it was actually Alice in the shed, her body placed there after she died. Lena's body was buried in Reid's grave which is why Sophie visited the grave. With the two other girls out of the picture gatterick then plans to flee to Switzerland with Sophie and Lucy.

Kettleson

EagererBeaver wrote: »

It could be, but introducing another victim at this stage would be slightly cheap.

"Cheap"? At you kidding? Did you watch series one? Expect anything.

EagererBeaver

Kettleson wrote: »

"Cheap"? At you kidding? Did you watch series one? Expect anything.

OK, let me put it like this. Could it be anyone else in the shed? Yes, it could literally be any other female on earth that we haven't seen as a character. Is it likely to be? No, unless some really, really awful writing took over for the second half of the series.

ahlookit

Not my favourite episode so far - it filled in a lot of the blanks, but we had them more or less worked out already.

Hopefully next weeks installment will propel the story forward and answer some of the bigger questions.

ahlookit

EagererBeaver wrote: »

OK, let me put it like this. Could it be anyone else in the shed? Yes, it could literally be any other female on earth that we haven't seen as a character. Is it likely to be? No, unless some really, really awful writing took over for the second half of the series.

Ha, was watching an Andrew Marr BBC4 documetary about crime/detective books.
He mentioned "Knoxs Decalogue" which I'd never heard of before. Written by a clergyman in the 1920s, it covers what is and is not acceptable in a mystery story:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FairPlayWhodunnit

Kettleson

EagererBeaver wrote: »

OK, let me put it like this. Could it be anyone else in the shed? Yes, it could literally be any other female on earth that we haven't seen as a character. Is it likely to be? No, unless some really, really awful writing took over for the second half of the series.

Yes I would like to agree with all of the above, but I hesitate due to the "fox" incident in series one. All original conspiracy theories and plots were blasted out of the water by a simple, plausible accident.

When you say "Is it likely to be? No". I have to say "it could very well be someone else". With the DNA results being totally suspect, we shall have to wait and see.

I would like the various plots to be satisfactorily and substantially resolved with the intrigue the viewer deserves. But I think there might be a few disappointments in the denouement. But I hope not.

ariana`

Hmmm i'm on the fence. I liked the episode in that answers started to come but i found it a bit flat, i can't quite put my finger on what was missing.

It firmed up what we/I was already fairly sure of that the girl was Sophie, that she was released as she needed an operation, she no longer sees herself as being in captivity but that he was keeping the daughter as insurance just in case.

We found out last night what Matthew can't forgive his dad for, which had been annoying me. But i'm still not fully satisfied about this. Sam in previous episodes commented to Gemma that Matthew would "never forgive him...". However Gemma didn't know about the affair with Eve at that stage when he said that so were they talking about something else? Anyhow, it's possibly irrelevant.

We still don't know what Sam's "cry for help" was, i thought he was going to cover for Matthew's stealing of the tanker by faking an attempt at suicide but it didn't really show us last night how he covered for him. Maybe they will show that again.

I think Alice was in the shed, a body swop before the fire was set. I still don't think there was a girl buried in with Reed, i've said this all along, and its very possible i'm wrong.

We also found out there was more evidence against the Butcher (planted) which makes it seem more likely that he was committed. Another thing which i had wondered about.

LennieB

Enjoyed last nights episode as it answered a few questions but thought the bit where Matthew and the guys went into the nursing home and attacked Stone was a bit much - they got to his room very quickly without been seen and was there no CCTV, you'd imagine there would have to be. Anyway it was probably more to implicate Baptiste than anything as it was a coincidence he was seeing attacking Stone there earlier.

Ceist_Beag

The first series was all about the impact the missing had on the family - the actual story behind the missing was very simple in the end but it was all about how the family reacted rather than about what happened to the child.
This series could well be the same but it feels much more like a WhoDunnit than the first series. I think it's all coming together as suspected - the only bit still open for me is around what happened the 3rd body and was it Lena or Alice in the shed. I still have difficulty with the grave theory as I just don't see how that conversation happens - does the girl die first and they have a conversation over where to bury her and then when Reed is buried they say "great, that's where we'll put her"?

Ceist_Beag

ariana` wrote: »

We found out last night what Matthew can't forgive his dad for, which had been annoying me. But i'm still not fully satisfied about this. Sam in previous episodes commented to Gemma that Matthew would "never forgive him...". However Gemma didn't know about the affair with Eve at that stage when he said that so were they talking about something else? Anyhow, it's possibly irrelevant.

I don't think that was it tbh. As you say, Sam talked openly with Gemma about how Matthew would never forgive him so it cannot be about the affair.

K-9

Yeah, and taken together with Baptiste's struggle with him in the nursing home it just seemed unnecessary and OTT, it seems they want to add extra drama for some reason with Baptiste presumably on the run. The phonecall to Eve while Gemma was in her office just seemed a bit too easy as well.

Gettrick is genuinely creepy though.

I suppose all I have to go on that Alice is still alive is Baptiste's hunch, which we haven't been told what it is based on? He just knows the army are involved somehow and didn't know about the third girl until 2016. It would be odd for a detective not to have something to go on, especially for him, who is so into science.

ariana`

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

I don't think that was it tbh. As you say, Sam talked openly with Gemma about how Matthew would never forgive him so it cannot be about the affair.

Ya that's what i was thinking on one hand but on another hand why have Matthew see him with Eve then It seemed like earlier in the episode they were making amends, and then that happened. Maybe it's linked to Sam's "cry for help" which are yet to be privy to.

ariana`

K-9 wrote: »

Yeah, and taken together with Baptiste's struggle with him in the nursing home it just seemed unnecessary and OTT, it seems they want to add extra drama for some reason with Baptiste presumably on the run. The phonecall to Eve while Gemma was in her office just seemed a bit too easy as well.

Gettrick is genuinely creepy though.

I suppose all I have to go on that Alice is still alive is Baptiste's hunch, which we haven't been told what it is based on? He just knows the army are involved somehow and didn't know about the third girl until 2016. It would be odd for a detective not to have something to go on, especially for him, who is so into science.

Yes very convenient timing. And then Gemma was able access and print off the information required before Eve came back :rolleyes:

K-9

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

The first series was all about the impact the missing had on the family - the actual story behind the missing was very simple in the end but it was all about how the family reacted rather than about what happened to the child.
This series could well be the same but it feels much more like a WhoDunnit than the first series. I think it's all coming together as suspected - the only bit still open for me is around what happened the 3rd body and was it Lena or Alice in the shed. I still have difficulty with the grave theory as I just don't see how that conversation happens - does the girl die first and they have a conversation over where to bury her and then when Reed is buried they say "great, that's where we'll put her"?

Yeah, we might be reading too much into the grave, maybe it was just to let us know Reid was involved and it's as simple as that.

But then you've the mystery over his "suicide" so it's possible there is more planning gone on there. I suppose the swapped body wasn't necessarily stored anywhere either, Gettrick might have killed the girl on the night of the fire, especially if she was unwell.

2 dead bodies just seems a lot to me.

ahlookit

K-9 wrote: »

2 dead bodies just seems a lot to me.

to paraphrase Oscar Wilde, to lose one kidnapped girl is misfortune, to lose two looks like carelessness


Was it possible to see out of the shuttered room Sophie was in?

Remember Gettrick was talking about the man passing by looking at the house and she said he was probably just walking his dog ... the way she said it just seemed a bit odd to me...

Also, were there two rooms in his house with locks on the doors? Two girls being kept separately from each other?

Ceist_Beag

Also, the room we saw them in was upstairs - not a basement. So when were they in a basement - was it in the same house? I'm also curious as to what Gettrick did with the body of Jorn!

ariana`

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

Also, the room we saw them in was upstairs - not a basement. So when were they in a basement - was it in the same house? I'm also curious as to what Gettrick did with the body of Jorn!

He put it in the boot of his car in the garage i thought?

Yes i wondered about the basement too, the room upstairs didn't fit with the girl's picture from last week. Maybe they were in a basement previously

ariana`

ahlookit wrote: »

to paraphrase Oscar Wilde, to lose one kidnapped girl is misfortune, to lose two looks like carelessness


Was it possible to see out of the shuttered room Sophie was in?

Remember Gettrick was talking about the man passing by looking at the house and she said he was probably just walking his dog ... the way she said it just seemed a bit odd to me...

Also, were there two rooms in his house with locks on the doors? Two girls being kept separately from each other?

Yes i got the impression they could see out. I wonder is Sophie just playing along with their "relationship" because it was in her interests, she and the daughter got treated better, and ultimately because he has the daughter. She seemed to have a bit of "sass" left in her when she spoke French knowing it annoyed him.

I didn't notice the 2nd door with locks but Sophie obviously knew Alice very well over a long period to be able impersonate her so i would have thought they were held in the same room/basement.

Ceist_Beag

ariana` wrote: »

He put it in the boot of his car in the garage i thought?

He did but I presume he wasn't going to leave it there? I'm curious as to what he plans to do with it - maybe another open grave will pop up somewhere! :P

ahlookit

Discussion of last nights episode in The Telegraph... Interesting theory on Eve Stone, something I hadn't considered

5. All about Eve

Indulge me on this one. Do Eve’s lack of a mother, vague birth history and subtle reactions mean that she’s another abducted girl, the one “with alabaster skin” - unknowing and hidden in plain sight as Stone’s daughter? Or would that be one head-spinning twist too far?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/2016/11/16/the-missing-series-2-gettrick-makes-a-creepy-villain-and-7-more/


Could explain a few of his cryptic lines in previous episodes.

K-9

I presumed the basement was pre 2014, and the house in 2015 was too insecure for Gettrick, though the little girl's picture that got Jorn into bother was 2016. If the house had a basement surely Gettrick would use it rather than put shutters on a window?

Didn't notice 2 rooms. I suspect Sophie knows Gettrick may "lose interest" in her, the comment about her looking younger when he cut her hair and him keeping her daughter in Germany. She seems to have less Stockholm syndrome moments at times, possibly the waiter reappears at some stage.

Kettleson

Oh, alabaster skin. There it is. Something significant in that line for sure.

ariana`

ahlookit wrote: »

Discussion of last nights episode in The Telegraph... Interesting theory on Eve Stone, something I hadn't considered

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/2016/11/16/the-missing-series-2-gettrick-makes-a-creepy-villain-and-7-more/


Could explain a few of his cryptic lines in previous episodes.

Interesting read but she has a sister as well and Eve did mention her mother in one episode although that doesn't necessarily means she had one, maybe she's just been told she had one but she died when she was very young.

It reminded me of Stone's comment to Eve outside the hospital last week too which i thought was strange at the time but i had forgotten about it since!

But I’m still bothered by Stone’s casual remark to daughter Eve (Laura Fraser) last week outside the hospital: “You’ve had enough fresh air for now.” It sounded exactly like something a kidnapper would say.