The Missing (BBC drama)

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Aaaaaarghhhhhh!

Merkin

Have pizza and Haagen Daz here in preparation, I've been hooked!

allym

Well that's definitely all the questions answered

8mv

Well that was bloody great - fine writing and storytelling brought out the best in all the cast - no complaints at all.

Come on Julian Baptiste for another season!

dark crystal

I binge watched this series on reccomendation from a work colleague over the last three nights and was instantly hooked.

That finale seemed to whizz by!

So glad Baptiste lived to see Sophie's kidnapper caught, devastated that Sam didn't make it to the very end, but ecstatic that Alice finally made it home.

I didn't see series one, but this one was absolutely compelling.

EagererBeaver

Dunno how I feel about that episode to tell the truth. All very neatly tidied up but almost feels underwhelming. Think they could have spent less time on the 2014 scenes and more on the drama of the chase or the emotional turmoil Sam in particular was going through. Think it was a cert that he was to die having spent so long refusing to get on board the Baptiste hype train. Was convinced Baptiste's hallucination would turn out to be his surgeon and his hallucinations were metaphors for him running away from his tumour.

Think the second half of the season was much weaker than the first but great show nonetheless.

heldel00

Am I being stupid or who was the fella he thought was following him in Iraq?

Hrududu

heldel00 wrote: »

Am I being stupid or who was the fella he thought was following him in Iraq?

A figment of his imagination brought on by the tumour. As far as I know he wasn't based on any character we saw

volchitsa

I can't exactly remember the follower's face, so this may be a silly suggestion, but I wondered if it couldn't have been Sophie's father?

(And in any case, that scene with his granddaughter was really touching, wasn't it?)

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Dunno how I feel about that episode to tell the truth. All very neatly tidied up but almost feels underwhelming. Think they could have spent less time on the 2014 scenes and more on the drama of the chase or the emotional turmoil Sam in particular was going through. Think it was a cert that he was to die having spent so long refusing to get on board the Baptiste hype train. Was convinced Baptiste's hallucination would turn out to be his surgeon and his hallucinations were metaphors for him running away from his tumour.

Think the second half of the season was much weaker than the first but great show nonetheless.

I think I agree. I was slightly disappointed that all the most obvious solutions turned out to be the right ones. There were some incredible theories floating around on here and on twitter
It was a fun 6 weeks though, not sure I slept well any Wednesday night over that time though, so many questions knocking around in my brain.

I think, looking back, it was obvious that Alice would still be alive given how much time we spent with her family, there had to be some emotional resolution there, and having them think she was dead and then turn out to actually be dead, well, that would have been a bit flat, I think. Having her be alive should have provided more emotional umph. I didn't quite feel it though, I don't know if it was because they spent more time on 2014 and other bits and pieces. I found Alice's reunion with Matthew the most emotional. Everyone else existed in the world without Alice for various periods of time before she was born, but he never did. I really felt for him.

Anyway.... great stuff all in. Maybe all the guessing and speculating led to it being slightly anticlimactic but overall still a brilliant and compelling piece of TV.

EDIT: Oh, and I guess it turns out Sophie was quite messed up. I was sure she was only playing along for Lucy's sake but once he let her out she could quite easily have told them who had her and there was a pretty good chance they'd have got him without any harm coming to Lucy or Alice. He had her well conditioned.

EagererBeaver

volchitsa wrote: »

I can't exactly remember the follower's face, so this may be a silly suggestion, but I wondered if it couldn't have been Sophie's father?

(And in any case, that scene with his granddaughter was really touching, wasn't it?)

No, completely different person.

Touching but tragic.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

EagererBeaver wrote: »

No, completely different person.

Touching but tragic.

What a weird situation to be in. She is technically his own flesh and blood but she's also half the man who took his child, and she's a product of the awful abuse Sophie suffered. That kind of thing must happen in real life too.

Oh, and get her with €2 coins coming out of her ears! Twas pennies in my day, 10p if you were lucky.

Duvetdays

volchitsa wrote: »

I can't exactly remember the follower's face, so this may be a silly suggestion, but I wondered if it couldn't have been Sophie's father?

Definitely wasn't Sophie's dad. He was either imaging him or was following him to rob him as he'd withdrawn such a large sum of money.

I thought the bit were swat popped out from behind the bush to grab Lucy was great wasn't expecting them there so soon.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

On a 3rd series....

Writing duo Harry and Jack Williams, the creators of The Missing, had previously stated that they were still weighing up a potential third series. "It would have to be very different, and not cynical, and it'd have to be saying something new," said Harry. "Never say never – but we haven't had the idea yet, to be honest."

Merkin

I absolutely loved that. I'm a lot more satisfied than I was with First Season finale which was a bit of a cop out. All questions have been answered this time. Fantastic!

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Just to be clear here, Stone was a bit of a pervert too? It sounded like Gettrick was implying he had been with young girls too and that's why he was more willing to help than Reed was.

JoeA3

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Just to be clear here, Stone was a bit of a pervert too? It sounded like Gettrick was implying he had been with young girls too and that's why he was more willing to help than Reed was.

Not so sure. With girls yes. But not necessarily underage girls. That was my interpretation of it. I think they were acting jack the lads in Iraq, getting up to all sorts with local women. Gettrick just took it to another level... the blackmail attempt was over the girl they torched to death the night they rescued him.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

JoeA3 wrote: »

Not so sure. With girls yes. But not necessarily underage girls. That was my interpretation of it. I think they were acting jack the lads in Iraq, getting up to all sorts with local women. Gettrick just took it to another level... the blackmail attempt was over the girl they torched to death the night they rescued him.

He said though that after Reed left, the previous night they had met up, he kept recording and he and Stone were talking about the other girls they'd been with. You'd think if it was just screwing around Stone wouldn't have cared, it had to be something bigger than that to get him to cooperate with what Gettrick wanted. Or at least that's how I see it.

JoeA3

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

He said though that after Reed left, the previous night they had met up, he kept recording and he and Stone were talking about the other girls they'd been with. You'd think if it was just screwing around Stone wouldn't have cared, it had to be something bigger than that to get him to cooperate with what Gettrick wanted. Or at least that's how I see it.

Maybe... but Reed kept referring to the "girl" - as in the girl they burned. it's left a bit ambiguous, a bit like his supposed dementia...

All in all, a superb show with a very decent final episode.

volchitsa

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Just to be clear here, Stone was a bit of a pervert too? It sounded like Gettrick was implying he had been with young girls too and that's why he was more willing to help than Reed was.

Well, Gettrick said they'd talked about the girls they'd been with - does that mean they had also had relationships with unsuitably young girls out there? I thought that was a possibility. It could explain why they were so very much under Gettrick's control. And Stone was already more into the whole army group solidarity thing in Iraq than Reid was.

The other thing is that Stone, already suffering from diagnosed Alzheimer's, would very likely not have been able to make good decisions under stress, and would probably have a tendency to obey whoever most forcefully told him exactly what to do. Which might explain why he just kept going on the same track whereas Reid just couldn't even conceive of continuing at that stage.

JoeA3

So did stone really have Alzheimer's? I thought they were heavily hinting that he might be faking it or at least remembering far more than he was letting on. His daughter certainly was having doubts in those final scenes...

Meauldsegosha

JoeA3 wrote: »

So did stone really have Alzheimer's? I thought they were heavily hinting that he might be faking it or at least remembering far more than he was letting on. His daughter certainly was having doubts in those final scenes...

That's what I took from that last scene of Eve and her dad in the hospital.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

He was on medication for it, there was a scene where Eve said to Sam "you've heard about my dad?", there was a scene where he was telling Eve he'd just been to the doctor and there was the scene where he **** in his pants and Sam had to wash and change him. All in all I'm sure he wasn't faking it.
That said he wasn't completely gone so it's quite possible he could still remember what he'd done and knew well enough to keep quiet about it.

JoeA3

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

He was on medication for it, there was a scene where Eve said to Sam "you've heard about my dad?", there was a scene where he was telling Eve he'd just been to the doctor and there was the scene where he **** in his pants and Sam had to wash and change him. All in all I'm sure he wasn't faking it.
That said he wasn't completely gone so it's quite possible he could still remember what he'd done and knew well enough to keep quiet about it.

Yeah I forgot about the sh1t the pants scene. Surely he wouldn't go that far if completely faking it. But it's definitely implied that he remembers more than he lets on.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

JoeA3 wrote: »

Yeah I forgot about the sh1t the pants scene. Surely he wouldn't go that far if completely faking it. But it's definitely implied that he remembers more than he lets on.

Yeah, I think he still has enough wits about him to control what he's saying, most of the time. There were a few times he started to wander a bit but managed to pull himself back.
I think the last scene with Eve was just her realising what a horrible person he was. She thought the conversation about remembering the good things was just him dealing with his diagnosis and having a bit of a moment. By the end though she'd figured out that it was his cowardly way of confessing to things, even if he didn't give specifics.

K-9

volchitsa wrote: »

I can't exactly remember the follower's face, so this may be a silly suggestion, but I wondered if it couldn't have been Sophie's father?

(And in any case, that scene with his granddaughter was really touching, wasn't it?)

That was a nice touch, something good could come out of it all.

Seve OB

Well in fairness, I don't think anyone of us called blackmail? was a good explanation.

the stars were good to get sam on board

agree, the swat arrived in numbers very, very quick!

Stone wasn't faking the Alzheimer's. he was a bit of a peado himself and geterick had him cornered.

as for the girl with the alabaster skin... and, that's enough fresh air for you..... couple of nice re herrings there.

i knew sophie wasn't supposed to give her real name

great show, now how to get my hands on season 1?????

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Seve OB wrote: »

Well in fairness, I don't think anyone of us called blackmail? was a good explanation.

Nobody called blackmail, you say??

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

The motive for framing Nadia's husband is clear now but why exactly Stone would agree to help Gettrick with this is still a grey area. He's either a paedo too or Gettrick has something else on him.

I threw so much **** at the wall something was bound to stick

Seve OB

Was a bit ridiculous how Baptiste knew the cottage was in Switzerland. The Swiss francs were a good clue, but come on!
What about the forgotten wallet? Could have been a better clue there.
Just as ridiculous how he was able to track him down with one call and not even having to wait for a call back.
Also silly how quick eve went to jorns desk and to be so urgent all of a sudden.

I think to have spaced that stuff out over a few weeks would have been more realistic but even a few days would have been acceptable

EagererBeaver

Seve OB wrote: »

Was a bit ridiculous how Baptiste knew the cottage was in Switzerland. The Swiss francs were a good clue, but come on!
What about the forgotten wallet? Could have been a better clue there.
Just as ridiculous how he was able to track him down with one call and not even having to wait for a call back.
Also silly how quick eve went to jorns desk and to be so urgent all of a sudden.

I think to have spaced that stuff out over a few weeks would have been more realistic but even a few days would have been acceptable

Did he forget a wallet? He said last week he'd forgotten cash. Swiss francs + Switzerland written on the photo a pretty good narrative device to get them there in my opinion.

Ceist_Beag

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Nobody called blackmail, you say??



I threw so much **** at the wall something was bound to stick

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

Well we know that Reed felt guilty enough about what happened in Iraq to be sending money to Mizar all these years so presumably this is what Gettrick was threatening him with - exposing that story.

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

It may well be that Gettrick knew/felt that Reed (it is Reed btw, not Reid! ) would not call his bluff on it ... which may have changed just before the point where Reed was killed. We saw how Reed went along with things in Iraq despite his own feelings, as Stone commanded he do it. Maybe Stone was also influencing Reed to keep quiet.

Cough, ahem, think a few of us were on to the blackmail idea tbh!

There weren't really any surprises last night, it ended much as I expected it to but I disagree Tickle that it wasn't emotional when Alice was returned. I found i hugely emotional when Gemma and her were reunted - I was comparing it to when Sophie met Gemma first and the difference was massive. The actress playing Gemma really nailed both moments for me.

Just a couple of questions from me on it (one whimsical and one not so!). First off, why were the Websters driving a right hand drive? They were in Germany for what, over 11 years anyway and the car was certainly not one they brought over when they moved so were they importing cars from Britain each time they upgraded? Just seemed a bit weird to me.
Secondly, does anyone think Gettrick abducted more children? It certainly seemed that way when Baptiste questioned him. I guess this is just one of those parts of the story left open, never to be answered.

ynwa_17

I thought it was a very good episode and a great wrap up to the season. Wouldn't say this season was as good as the 1st, but the standard was set so high.

I'd echo a few of the comments that they got from house to Switzerland far too quickly but I guess they wanted to show how good Baptiste really is as a detective. Probably could've done with having this episode as an hour and a half or 2 hours I think and not craming so much in so quickly. They tied up all the loose ends, but it was very hurried.

Did anyone notice the link with season one - Mark Walsh, who Baptiste said had a new job at Interpol, the same Mark Walsh who ended up marrying Emily in season 1!

The contrast between season 1 was excellent I thought. Season 1 - a dad, who couldn't accept the truth, season 2 - a dad who had completely come to terms with the fact his daughter was dead. Season 2 - a dad who died happy, knowing his daughter was alive, season 1 - a dad who was living in his own hell on earth, a broken soul.

I hope they come back with a 3rd season, but maybe as a prequel to Season 1 - I assume Baptiste survives but i'd like to hope he properly retires this time

volchitsa

Yeah, Keeley-Hawes was fantastic all the way through, I thought, never overstated and yet she got the emotion across so well.

Never thought about the cars, but maybe it's commonplace on UK military bases in Germany? I can see reasons why it might be, with people coming and going. Just a thought.

Yes, I definitely think we're meant to feel Julien has it right about other abductions. Though keeping more than three girls in more than one place would be pretty full time one would think, so either they didn't last long (very possible) or else I expect it will have happened before those three, or at least before Alice arrived.

Maybe those three were the only ones he kept alive for any length of time.

BetsyEllen

Guys, excuse my ignorance but was the body in the boot at the end Jorn?

I was very tired watching it and had thought it was the body of another girl but I've just had a light bulb moment and realised it was probably him?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

BetsyEllen wrote: »

Guys, excuse my ignorance but was the body in the boot at the end Jorn?

I was very tired watching it and had thought it was the body of another girl but I've just had a light bulb moment and realised it was probably him?

Yes it was Jorn. Gettrick must have told them where he was.

Speaking of cars..... We didn't really get an explanation for why Reed's car wasn't there when the prostitute showed up, did we? We know Gettrick drove them there but did he just drive home again and bring the car back later?

ahlookit

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Yes it was Jorn. Gettrick must have told them where he was.

Speaking of cars..... We didn't really get an explanation for why Reed's car wasn't there when the prostitute showed up, did we? We know Gettrick drove them there but did he just drive home again and bring the car back later?

Yeah, thats what I assumed - Gettrick drove Reed in Gettrick's car, then after he killed Reed he needed to bring his car back and drop Reeds car at Reeds house.

Thought season 2 was excellent - and the (sometimes wild) speculation and theories on here definitely added to it. Thanks all!

BetsyEllen

ahlookit wrote: »

Yeah, thats what I assumed - Gettrick drove Reed in Gettrick's car, then after he killed Reed he needed to bring his car back and drop Reeds car at Reeds house.

Thought season 2 was excellent - and the (sometimes wild) speculation and theories on here definitely added to it. Thanks all!

Me too!
Can we all find another series to watch together please?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

ahlookit wrote: »

Yeah, thats what I assumed - Gettrick drove Reed in Gettrick's car, then after he killed Reed he needed to bring his car back and drop Reeds car at Reeds house.

Thought season 2 was excellent - and the (sometimes wild) speculation and theories on here definitely added to it. Thanks all!

Oh, I see. I had assumed he drove Reed's car so couldn't figure out why he went off in it before bringing it back Him having driven his own car makes far more sense.

Ceist_Beag

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Oh, I see. I had assumed he drove Reed's car so couldn't figure out why he went off in it before bringing it back Him having driven his own car makes far more sense.

True, I was thinking the same originally as Gettrick did say to Reed that he would drive as Reed had a drink taken but it kinda suggested they were planning to take Reeds car. I didn't pay enough attention to the shot of the car pulling up outside Reeds house but it's probably fair to assume it must have been Gettricks car alright, not Reeds.
Agree with ahlookit, it's been great fun watching the show and then discussing it on here after. It certainly makes an argument for watching shows on tv rather than via boxset (which seems to be more the norm these days)!
Maybe we can do it again for Sherlock!

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

^ The first 4 episodes I thought were best viewed a week apart but seeing the last 4 episodes made me think maybe I was wrong. If you just binged this all in one go there'd have been less time to throw around the theories and basically figure it all out. I mean, after we found out the girl in the shed was still alive in Switzerland there were no real surprises, were there? We had thrown so many ideas around that between them all we had covered every possible outcome and I think, if we looked back over the thread, we probably had every piece of the puzzle solved at some point or another. So for that reason I think maybe a box set style binge would have made the second half of the season more satisfying.

Although it was a lot of fun speculating the last 6 weeks. I guess it works as both. There were a few posters yesterday said they had just binge watched eps 1-5 based on recommendations in time for the finale, interesting to see what they thought.

ahlookit

BetsyEllen wrote: »

Me too!
Can we all find another series to watch together please?

You mean a TV club rather than book club? I like your thinking!!

ariana`

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

There weren't really any surprises last night, it ended much as I expected it to but I disagree Tickle that it wasn't emotional when Alice was returned. I found i hugely emotional when Gemma and her were reunted - I was comparing it to when Sophie met Gemma first and the difference was massive. The actress playing Gemma really nailed both moments for me.

This exactly for me. I felt the difference between the 2 reunions was startling and spoke volumes. She's a fantastic actress, she portrayed this excellently.

I'm glad all the ends were tied up despite there being no great surprises but i did feel last night's episode was a bit rushed. I was sad for Sam but i felt he had to die, it would have been too complicated if he stayed alive, with Eve pregnant.

I also got the impression that Gettrick was blackmailing Stone for something more than the girl in the fire, he mentioned last night that they had talked about their time in Iraq and "the girls...." and we previously heard Stone babbling about a "girl with alabaster skin....". But it's pretty irrelevant now.

I thought it was a little too convenient that Gettrick had met with Stone & Reid the previous Wednesday night before Sophie got sick and conversed about all the happenings in Iraq. And if he really had recorded it how even more convenient... Stone didn't even ask for evidence of this either before going along with him I mean he was holding Sophie for 13 years and Alice for 11 years and the week before he ended up needing it he made this recording.

But overall an excellent serious. I enjoyed it thoroughly and all chats on here too

SB_Part2

I loved season 2 overall. The only slight issue I have with it is about the rollercoaster. If Alice was so "bold" all along, why would he let her on a rollercoaster? The same for Lena. I can see why he'd have a hold over Sophie because of the child but not sure about the other two.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

ariana` wrote: »

I thought it was a little too convenient that Gettrick had met with Stone & Reid the previous Wednesday night before Sophie got sick and conversed about all the happenings in Iraq. And if he really had recorded it how even more convenient... Stone didn't even ask for evidence of this either before going along with him I mean he was holding Sophie for 13 years and Alice for 11 years and the week before he ended up needing it he made this recording.

I took that as being a deliberate move on his part. Sophie looked like she had been sick for a while. Gettrick may have decided to set up the conversation with the intention of recording it because he knew one way or another he'd need help in the near future.

ariana`

SB_Part2 wrote: »

I loved season 2 overall. The only slight issue I have with it is about the rollercoaster. If Alice was so "bold" all along, why would he let her on a rollercoaster? The same for Lena. I can see why he'd have a hold over Sophie because of the child but not sure about the other two.

She wasn't always "bold". In episode 7 Adam said to Sophie "remember when Alice used to do what she was told..." or something along those lines.

Sophie for whatever reason became a victim of Stockholm Syndrome. The other 2 didn't. There's more to it than having the child. She was there the longest, perhaps she was just more vulnerable, more impressionable.

Ceist_Beag

ariana` wrote: »

I thought it was a little too convenient that Gettrick had met with Stone & Reid the previous Wednesday night before Sophie got sick and conversed about all the happenings in Iraq. And if he really had recorded it how even more convenient... Stone didn't even ask for evidence of this either before going along with him I mean he was holding Sophie for 13 years and Alice for 11 years and the week before he ended up needing it he made this recording.

I took from this that Gettrick manufactured the meeting the week before as he knew he would need to get help for Sophie. Whether he actually recorded them or not we don't know but my take on it was that the meeting the week before was part of his plan to blackmail them both.

LennieB

ariana` wrote: »

This exactly for me. I felt the difference between the 2 reunions was startling and spoke volumes. She's a fantastic actress, she portrayed this excellently.

I'm glad all the ends were tied up despite there being no great surprises but i did feel last night's episode was a bit rushed. I was sad for Sam but i felt he had to die, it would have been too complicated if he stayed alive, with Eve pregnant.

I also got the impression that Gettrick was blackmailing Stone for something more than the girl in the fire, he mentioned last night that they had talked about their time in Iraq and "the girls...." and we previously heard Stone babbling about a "girl with alabaster skin....". But it's pretty irrelevant now.

I thought it was a little too convenient that Gettrick had met with Stone & Reid the previous Wednesday night before Sophie got sick and conversed about all the happenings in Iraq. And if he really had recorded it how even more convenient... Stone didn't even ask for evidence of this either before going along with him I mean he was holding Sophie for 13 years and Alice for 11 years and the week before he ended up needing it he made this recording.

But overall an excellent serious. I enjoyed it thoroughly and all chats on here too

I took it that Sophie had been sick for a few weeks (given how bad she was when Gettrick called the men in) and he knew he'd need Stone and Reed to help so he planned the meeting and recording knowing he may have to call them in soon.

I had forecasted the barman in Switzerland having a role in recognising Sophie but thought it was done a bit conveniently - agree that the last episode felt a bit rushed and I though it should have all been in the present day having covered 2014 in the previous episode. Fantastic show though!

ariana`

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I took that as being a deliberate move on his part. Sophie looked like she had been sick for a while. Gettrick may have decided to set up the conversation with the intention of recording it because he knew one way or another he'd need help in the near future.

Hmmmm ya i suppose... But he'd obviously gotten her through a pregnancy, labour and delivery and nurtured/cared for a newborn so it still seems highly convenient that he suddenly thought then that he might need help in the near future. Anyhow, i suppose to some degree we have to suspend belief, we didn't have to do much of it in this series

LennieB

ariana` wrote: »

This exactly for me. I felt the difference between the 2 reunions was startling and spoke volumes. She's a fantastic actress, she portrayed this excellently.

I'm glad all the ends were tied up despite there being no great surprises but i did feel last night's episode was a bit rushed. I was sad for Sam but i felt he had to die, it would have been too complicated if he stayed alive, with Eve pregnant.

I also got the impression that Gettrick was blackmailing Stone for something more than the girl in the fire, he mentioned last night that they had talked about their time in Iraq and "the girls...." and we previously heard Stone babbling about a "girl with alabaster skin....". But it's pretty irrelevant now.

I thought it was a little too convenient that Gettrick had met with Stone & Reid the previous Wednesday night before Sophie got sick and conversed about all the happenings in Iraq. And if he really had recorded it how even more convenient... Stone didn't even ask for evidence of this either before going along with him I mean he was holding Sophie for 13 years and Alice for 11 years and the week before he ended up needing it he made this recording.

But overall an excellent serious. I enjoyed it thoroughly and all chats on here too

ariana` wrote: »

Hmmmm ya i suppose... But he'd obviously gotten her through a pregnancy, labour and delivery and nurtured/cared for a newborn so it still seems highly convenient that he suddenly thought then that he might need help in the near future. Anyhow, i suppose to some degree we have to suspend belief, we didn't have to do much of it in this series

He had to get their help somehow as he knew he couldn't help her himself this time - she would need medical help or she would probably die.

volchitsa

I took it that this illness was going on for a long time before getting really urgent, (my sister had appendicitis and was unwell off and on for literally months before it became clear what was wrong with her, although not "dying" of course) anyway I think when Alice said Sophie would die he already knew that himself, and deliberately set up the meeting. Or he may already have done it, but of course in his role of all-powerful patriarch he wouldn't usually tell the girls stuff he was hoping/planning to do until it was all sorted.

But I don't know if that works in terms of the timeline.