The Missing (BBC drama)

ariana`

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

I see no reason to suspect the twins are involved in the attack - there is no link to them in 2014. Everything so far points to a sex ring inside the army (Henry Reed, Brigadier Stone, Nadia and who knows, maybe even Eve which might explain how she got pregnant) so my guess is that the two who carried out the attack are involved in this ring and are in the army and want to shut Nadia up.
The Iraq scenes were a little bit daft last night I thought. The repainted camper van is yet another angle thrown into the mix too - I've no idea where that angle will link into the story.

I don't think Eve is involved in the army sex/paedo ring. When her father was rambling about some other women with alabaster skin, she looked quite surprised, almost shocked, that it wasn't her mother. I was just waiting for him to say Alice/Sophie :eek:

Likewise i don't think the brothers were involved in the attach on the Nadia. It may have just been a random attack because of her involvement with the butcher and what he was accused of, she had said herself to Andreas earlier that everyone would know soon enough, so it had probably leaked around town. She's obviously very nervous 2 yrs later which could totally explain her running from the 'youths/louts' in the supermarket, as opposed to running from 'Matthew' specifically which is what i thought originally.

Did anyone catch the picture on her phone? It was some kind of bondage shot, was it her and the butcher (or was it her and Brigadier Stone by any chance) ? I kind of missed it :mad:

I wonder why they are framing the butcher? Is it completely random or have 'they' some kind of vengeance against Nadia? It seemed quite tense between Brigadier Stone and Nadia when he called into the shop and she referred to him with the wrong title. There was definitely no love lost between them

EagererBeaver

It was her and the husband.

As well as being tense between her and Brigadier Stone, the fact she was unaware of his rank showed how far apart they'd grown.

Ceist_Beag

ariana` wrote: »

I don't think Eve is involved in the army sex/paedo ring. When her father was rambling about some other women with alabaster skin, she looked quite surprised, almost shocked, that it wasn't her mother. I was just waiting for him to say Alice/Sophie :eek:

yeah think you're right in that Eve isn't part of or aware of the ring.

ariana` wrote: »

Did anyone catch the picture on her phone? It was some kind of bondage shot, was it her and the butcher (or was it her and Brigadier Stone by any chance) ?

I thought it was Brigadier Stone in the picture or at least someone from the army, possibly Henry Reed either. The way she looked at Brigadier Stone when he came into the butchers makes me think it was him. I could be wrong tho as EagererBeaver seems certain it was the husband.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

EagererBeaver wrote: »

It was her and the husband.

As well as being tense between her and Brigadier Stone, the fact she was unaware of his rank showed how far apart they'd grown.

I thought the picture was her and the husband too and given the way she was with him on the phone, she didn't seem entirely convinced of his innocence, I figured maybe the bondage stuff was his idea and she's thinking if he's into that what else is he into.

Ceist_Beag

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I thought the picture was her and the husband too and given the way she was with him on the phone, she didn't seem entirely convinced of his innocence, I figured maybe the bondage stuff was his idea and she's thinking if he's into that what else is he into.

Actually that makes more sense now!

ariana`

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I thought the picture was her and the husband too and given the way she was with him on the phone, she didn't seem entirely convinced of his innocence, I figured maybe the bondage stuff was his idea and she's thinking if he's into that what else is he into.

Interesting yeah that makes sense. She was very cool on the phone alright.

ariana`

EagererBeaver wrote: »

As well as being tense between her and Brigadier Stone, the fact she was unaware of his rank showed how far apart they'd grown.

I wondered had she known but said the lower rank purposefully to irk him.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

In the second episode what was it that specifically linked the butcher to the bunker Alice took them to?

ariana`

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

In the second episode what was it that specifically linked the butcher to the bunker Alice took them to?

They found a receipt in the bunker and the credit card number on it was in his name.

ahlookit

ariana` wrote: »

They found a receipt in the bunker and the credit card number on it was in his name.

which obviously could have been planted there by someone wanting to frame him

Thoroughly enjoying this season, keeping up the high standard from the first.

ariana`

Another thing i was wondering is how did 'Alice' pay for the petrol? It's unlikely she has any money when she's just back and not well enough to go going anywhere or doing much yet. It's possibly more of the over-sight in the script than anything else

EagererBeaver

Whether it's the husband or Brigadier Stone, I don't think it's Henry Reed. Guy in the photo was a little bit, eh, pasty to be him!

ariana`

ahlookit wrote: »

which obviously could have been planted there by someone wanting to frame him

Thoroughly enjoying this season, keeping up the high standard from the first.

Absolutely. They found no DNA or signs of humans there at all so it's amazing that they got a conviction based on that alone

EagererBeaver

ariana` wrote: »

Another thing i was wondering is how did 'Alice' pay for the petrol? It's unlikely she has any money when she's just back and not well enough to go going anywhere or doing much yet. It's possibly more of the over-sight in the script than anything else

Easily explained if needed by her lifting a ten euro note lying about the house or similar.

ahlookit

ariana` wrote: »

Absolutely. They found no DNA or signs of humans there at all so it's amazing that they got a conviction based on that alone

There was a positive ID from "Alice" as well ... maybe there is more to be revealed in upcoming episodes.

Another point: has Roger Allam's character - the Brigadier - gone downhill mentally due to stress and guilt over actions we are going to learn about, or is it an act?

ariana`

ahlookit wrote: »

There was a positive ID from "Alice" as well ... maybe there is more to be revealed in upcoming episodes.

Yes true, i had forgotten that But she's dead now and there was only 1 person who heard her positive ID and it wasn't in a formal recorded/interview setting so it's still questionable whether that would be allowed as evidence in a court.

ahlookit wrote: »

has Roger Allam's character - the Brigadier - gone downhill mentally due to stress and guilt over actions we are going to learn about, or is it an act?

It seems pretty genuine to me. Senile dementia or Alzheimer perhaps.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

ahlookit wrote: »

There was a positive ID from "Alice" as well ... maybe there is more to be revealed in upcoming episodes.

Another point: has Roger Allam's character - the Brigadier - gone downhill mentally due to stress and guilt over actions we are going to learn about, or is it an act?

I have been assuming that the Brigadier will revel something accidentally due to his illness. It almost happened last night but it's probably too early for it.

volchitsa

ahlookit wrote: »

There was a positive ID from "Alice" as well ... maybe there is more to be revealed in upcoming episodes.

Another point: has Roger Allam's character - the Brigadier - gone downhill mentally due to stress and guilt over actions we are going to learn about, or is it an act?

I think the positive ID from Alice, especially now she's dead which sort of sets that in stone I think, would be enough along with the receipt.

What I don't understand though is why she knew to react so strongly to seeing his picture - even if it was a set up, surely it would be too much to expect a traumatized girl to play-act being triggered by someone whom she didn't find traumatic at all? Especially as she's able to hide her hostility towards the Brigadier so well?

(Though maybe I'm wrong and she'd be able redirect those feelings of trauma towards someone else if she wanted to. But why would she want to?)

What I'm getting at BTW is that I think she does know the butcher, and that there is a link with her imprisonment. Not sure what though - I suspected Nadia actually.

Spon Farmer

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

I see no reason to suspect the twins are involved in the attack - there is no link to them in 2014. Everything so far points to a sex ring inside the army (Henry Reed, Brigadier Stone, Nadia and who knows, maybe even Eve which might explain how she got pregnant) so my guess is that the two who carried out the attack are involved in this ring and are in the army and want to shut Nadia up.
The Iraq scenes were a little bit daft last night I thought. The repainted camper van is yet another angle thrown into the mix too - I've no idea where that angle will link into the story.

Didn't Baptiste say to Daniel Reed that his father didn't kill himself / or was innocent?

I think the reappearance of the campervan means that the kidnapper is going to strike again.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

volchitsa wrote: »

What I'm getting at BTW is that I think she does know the butcher, and that there is a link with her imprisonment. Not sure what though - I suspected Nadia actually.

I was wondering about this too, especially given his reaction in prison to Matthew telling him Alice was sorry. If you were falsely imprisoned for 2 years and the person who accused you was apologising to you wouldn't your first reaction be to want more information, or get annoyed, or something other than what he was? He seemed almost sad about it? I don't know exactly what he was but it struck me as odd.

I do wonder if they had some sort of relationship in whatever capacity and that was why she recognised him in the photo. It could also explain why, if she is Sophie and not Alice, she went back to Alice's life instead of her own in Paris. To be near him? Bit of a stretch maybe...

Baybay

My random thoughts.
If both girls either escaped or were released, why then? Their childish appeal, if that's what it was, must have waned years previously.
Did their babies grow to be replacements?
Assuming the Brigadier is responsible, did the onset of Alzheimer's mean he realised he couldn't continue to hold them so he let them go? Did he plan on going to Switzerland, with the VW, for assisted suicide? He did say Reid, who we understood to have committed suicide, had the right idea in a previous episode, although he didn't expand on what excatly that idea might have been.
The man in the picture is, I think, the Butcher. His wife is definitely involved with the girls, however peripherally. She too has a link with Reid evidenced by the son watching her at the funeral. Maybe the photos were being used by someone to blackmail her for her assistance or to ensure she would implicate the Butcher when the time came. She was quite open about the bird watching trips.
I also don't think Alice died in the fire. Might it have been the child she referred to as having died? A cremation of sorts, ensuring her freedom from her family, the police, the brigadier etc. Her mother said she had been gone hours but I don't think she would have needed to be gone that long to get to a petrol station. Moving a body though?
I think the tattoo might have a bigger role to play yet.
When Matty apologised to the Butcher on Alice's behalf, what if she was apologising for identifying him to the Brigadier as the one who set her free rather than the one who kidnapped her?
Really, for me, the Brigadier is the one it all keeps coming back to. Then there's Eve's missing baby & a referred to sister who is not involved with her father's care.
No conclusions or definites from me, just more questions!

volchitsa

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I was wondering about this too, especially given his reaction in prison to Matthew telling him Alice was sorry. If you were falsely imprisoned for 2 years and the person who accused you was apologising to you wouldn't your first reaction be to want more information, or get annoyed, or something other than what he was? He seemed almost sad about it? I don't know exactly what he was but it struck me as odd.

Yes, although if one goes for the theory that there's a side-commentary going on about the effects of the accusation on an innocent couple (i.e. The attack on Nadia was just angry locals etc) then it could be to show how broken he is.

On the whole I think there's more to it though. So I do like this suggestion of yours:

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I do wonder if they had some sort of relationship in whatever capacity and that was why she recognised him in the photo. It could also explain why, if she is Sophie and not Alice, she went back to Alice's life instead of her own in Paris. To be near him? Bit of a stretch maybe...

It's a stretch alright for now, in terms of what we know so far - but could well be one of those cases of calling it early. It has the potential to explain several puzzlers. Certainly worth bearing in mind I think.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Baybay wrote: »

When Matty apologised to the Butcher on Alice's behalf, what if she was apologising for identifying him to the Brigadier as the one who set her free rather than the one who kidnapped her?
Really, for me, the Brigadier is the one it all keeps coming back to. Then there's Eve's missing baby & a referred to sister who is not involved with her father's care.
No conclusions or definites from me, just more questions!

My only issue with that is why wouldn't he just tell the police that he set them free, unless.... he was involved in it all along and had a sudden change of heart?

The van confuses me too. Unless in 2003 there was a lot of yellow camper vans around this smallish German town it seems unlikely any of the main suspects, so far, were driving the van without someone noticing.

volchitsa

Baybay wrote: »

My random thoughts.
If both girls either escaped or were released, why then? Their childish appeal, if that's what it was, must have waned years previously.
Did their babies grow to be replacements?
Assuming the Brigadier is responsible, did the onset of Alzheimer's mean he realised he couldn't continue to hold them so he let them go? Did he plan on going to Switzerland, with the VW, for assisted suicide? He did say Reid, who we understood to have committed suicide, had the right idea in a previous episode, although he didn't expand on what excatly that idea might have been.
The man in the picture is, I think, the Butcher. His wife is definitely involved with the girls, however peripherally. She too has a link with Reid evidenced by the son watching her at the funeral. Maybe the photos were being used by someone to blackmail her for her assistance or to ensure she would implicate the Butcher when the time came. She was quite open about the bird watching trips.
I also don't think Alice died in the fire. Might it have been the child she referred to as having died? A cremation of sorts, ensuring her freedom from her family, the police, the brigadier etc. Her mother said she had been gone hours but I don't think she would have needed to be gone that long to get to a petrol station. Moving a body though?
I think the tattoo might have a bigger role to play yet.
When Matty apologised to the Butcher on Alice's behalf, what if she was apologising for identifying him to the Brigadier as the one who set her free rather than the one who kidnapped her?
Really, for me, the Brigadier is the one it all keeps coming back to. Then there's Eve's missing baby & a referred to sister who is not involved with her father's care.
No conclusions or definites from me, just more questions!

Has to be an adult who died in the fire, a 10 year old child couldn't possibly be mistaken for Alice, not even if it was only charred remains. No DNA testing when she came back and then no proper autopsy if whatever was left would just beggar belief considering there are two police forces involved. Three if you count Baptiste, although I guess we can't.

You could be right about the tattoo, there could well be something more to that still to come. Initiation ceremony? Gang membership? That could be the Brigadier and his gang of course, though he'd be running them from outside, not as a mere member himself.

Spon Farmer

ariana` wrote: »

I don't think Eve is involved in the army sex/paedo ring. When her father was rambling about some other women with alabaster skin, she looked quite surprised, almost shocked, that it wasn't her mother. I was just waiting for him to say Alice/Sophie :eek:

Likewise i don't think the brothers were involved in the attach on the Nadia. It may have just been a random attack because of her involvement with the butcher and what he was accused of, she had said herself to Andreas earlier that everyone would know soon enough, so it had probably leaked around town. She's obviously very nervous 2 yrs later which could totally explain her running from the 'youths/louts' in the supermarket, as opposed to running from 'Matthew' specifically which is what i thought originally.

Did anyone catch the picture on her phone? It was some kind of bondage shot, was it her and the butcher (or was it her and Brigadier Stone by any chance) ? I kind of missed it :mad:

I wonder why they are framing the butcher? Is it completely random or have 'they' some kind of vengeance against Nadia? It seemed quite tense between Brigadier Stone and Nadia when he called into the shop and she referred to him with the wrong title. There was definitely no love lost between them

Eve is most certainly not involved in any army conspiracy/sex ring.

Just because police don't officially give details does not mean the news doesn't spread. This is why I think the guys in the animal masks are red herrings. We are meant to believe they are involved but it is actual an attack by two civilian thugs.

The guy in the bondage photo was indeed the butcher.

Who was it that found the receipt that lead to Herz's arrest? Was it Baptiste?

I took the meeting between Nadia and Stone as nothing more than a dislike of one another and her "mistake" in his rank as a sign she thought he was worthy of it.

I don't believe that Nadia is involved in anything sex ring/conspiracy - her conversation with Eve and her husband on the phone seemed to show her genuinely doubting his innocence.

ariana` wrote: »

Yes true, i had forgotten that But she's dead now and there was only 1 person who heard her positive ID and it wasn't in a formal recorded/interview setting so it's still questionable whether that would be allowed as evidence in a court.

It seems pretty genuine to me. Senile dementia or Alzheimer perhaps.

A shoddy defence lawyer and a shambles of a court case could be the cause of Herz conviction. However, it has only been two years and the butcher might not have even been put on trial for the kidnapping yet.

Stone's dementia is genuine but he has clear moments too.

ariana`

Spon Farmer wrote: »

Who was it that found the receipt that lead to Herz's arrest? Was it Baptiste?

Yes it was Baptiste.

Spon Farmer wrote: »

Stone's dementia is genuine but he has clear moments too.

When he didn't say the name of the girl/woman he was talking about in the conversation with Eve i felt like at some level he knew not too. And again at the end when Gemma was showing the picture of the rollercoaster to Eve and the camera rolled to him, maybe i imagined it but i got the feeling that some relevant thoughts were going through his head.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

ariana` wrote: »

When he didn't say the name of the girl/woman he was talking about in the conversation with Eve i felt like at some level he knew not too. And again at the end when Gemma was showing the picture of the rollercoaster to Eve and the camera rolled to him, maybe i imagined it but i got the feeling that some relevant thoughts were going through his head.

My grandmother had dementia before she died and when she was still in the early stages she would regularly forget things and people but whenever the doctor would be assessing her and asking her questions she always seemed to know to keep it together and not say too much. I assumed it was a subconscious understanding of what it could mean to slip up, in her case ending up in a home or hospital. In the case of Stone it would mean whatever his involvement in the girls' case coming to light.

ariana`

volchitsa wrote: »

You could be right about the tattoo, there could well be something more to that still to come. Initiation ceremony? Gang membership? That could be the Brigadier and his gang of course, though he'd be running them from outside, not as a mere member himself.

The real Alice had the tatoo before she was taken. Was she already involved with the 'gang', were they grooming her before taking her. Perhaps she even went willingly initially? We just saw the van pull up and pull off.

Who is the man that Daniel Reed's father was paying money too and why? Was it money paid for keep someone quiet or was it money paid in return for service(s)/products (i.e. girls/babies). I can't remember exactly what Daniel said but he did use the word "sick" in reference to what was going on?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

ariana` wrote: »

The real Alice had the tatoo before she was taken. Was she already involved with the 'gang', were they grooming her before taking her. Perhaps she even went willingly initially? We just saw the van pull up and pull off.

The tattoo was something she gave herself. It was a homemade job and quite possible that with access to something sharp and a pen she gave Sophie one too.

Spon Farmer

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I have been assuming that the Brigadier will revel something accidentally due to his illness. It almost happened last night but it's probably too early for it.

Yes, I think Eve will not believe Gemma about the photo or at least have severe doubts, but will eventually team up with Baptiste when her father reveals something.

I also don't believe that there is a sex ring with in the army or that the army is hiding the kidnappers.

My own theory after episode two & three is "what Stone did"

was kill Major Reed and Alice and Sophie were witnesses. Daniel was all about how his father was a nice, happy guy and would never kill himself. I believe that Major Reed somehow found the missing girls and brought them to his house and before he could call the police Stone caught up to him or perhaps Reed called Stone for help and Stone killed him. Stone isn't the kidnapper but was desperate to protect whoever it was so blackmailed Sophie into framing the butcher (why him is still unclear) with the promise that Alice would be freed later. Sophie was meant to just be Sophie but for her own reasons pretended to be Alice. Maybe Alice is dead and Sophie sacrificed her own chance at a reunion with her family to give the Webster's back their daughter - she either planned to not stay long or "killed herself" once she realised Gemma was becoming suspicious. That way they still got Alice back.

I can't yet fit in the payments Major Reed was making to the Arab but it is clearly related to the kidnapping hence Daniel's disgust - perhaps he was investigating the kidnapping himself. Do we know what Major Reed's job on the base was? Was he retired?

I just added the spoiler tags in case this kind of theorising is considered spoiler territory

EagererBeaver

ariana` wrote: »

maybe i imagined it but i got the feeling that some relevant thoughts were going through his head.

Impossible to tell. The camera switched to him and his expression didn't change. Did he hear? Did he understand? Who knows?

Spon Farmer

ariana` wrote: »

Yes it was Baptiste.



When he didn't say the name of the girl/woman he was talking about in the conversation with Eve i felt like at some level he knew not too. And again at the end when Gemma was showing the picture of the rollercoaster to Eve and the camera rolled to him, maybe i imagined it but i got the feeling that some relevant thoughts were going through his head.

I caught that look too - he was definitely having a moment of clarity. I had a feeling that he only stopped in his talk of the "girl with the alabaster skin" because he lost track of that train of thought and didn't know what name Eve was asking about, but perhaps your right and he actually managed to silence himself.

A few people are saying the conversation "shocked" Eve but I don't think it was a nasty type shock - more she was surprised and uncomfortable that her father was talking about a woman other than her mother. Perhaps her own affair simply made her think her father may have done something similar years ago. She certainly doesn't suspect him of anything like sex crimes at this stage.

EagererBeaver

Spon Farmer wrote: »

I caught that look too - he was definitely having a moment of clarity.

At this point in time there's no way of knowing that at all so I don't know how you "definitely" know he was doing anything. His expression didn't change and he continued to stare straight ahead at the TV.

Spon Farmer

ariana` wrote: »

The real Alice had the tatoo before she was taken. Was she already involved with the 'gang', were they grooming her before taking her. Perhaps she even went willingly initially? We just saw the van pull up and pull off.

Who is the man that Daniel Reed's father was paying money too and why? Was it money paid for keep someone quiet or was it money paid in return for service(s)/products (i.e. girls/babies). I can't remember exactly what Daniel said but he did use the word "sick" in reference to what was going on?

The scene of Alice been taken does show it being against her will. It was filmed in a way that show it clearly but I thought was both to show her point of view and to conceal the kidnapper. However, it is possible that they simply haven't showed us the whole picture of what yet.

As to the tattoo, I didn't think of it at all after the opening sequence but yes, Sophie has the same tattoo as Alice. I don't believe it is related to gang of perverts in the army though. Alice got the tattoo the night before the kidnapping and I think we will discover that Sophie also got hers the night before she was taken and that this is the kidnapper marking his targets. No one has linked the tattoos because Baptiste was frozen out of the case in Germany without getting any significant look at the case files and we don't even know if Alice's tattoo was mentioned there. I think the tattoo is what will break the case open.

I think that Baptiste will look much deeper into these payments than Daniel was willing or capable of doing and clear the Major of wrong doing.

Spon Farmer

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

The tattoo was something she gave herself. It was a homemade job and quite possible that with access to something sharp and a pen she gave Sophie one too.

Are you sure about that?

Ah rats !!! So much for my dramatic "the tattoo will break open the case" :P

Spon Farmer

EagererBeaver wrote: »

At this point in time there's no way of knowing that at all so I don't know how you "definitely" know he was doing anything. His expression didn't change and he continued to stare straight ahead at the TV.

You are right. He didn't actually change his expression and maybe camera simply switched to him as another red herring - to make viewers connect him to the rollercoaster excursion when he actually isn't.

Stone knowing anything about the rollercoaster doesn't fit in with my own theory of how he is involved or "what he did".

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Spon Farmer wrote: »

Are you sure about that?

Ah rats !!! So much for my dramatic "the tattoo will break open the case" :P

I'm fairly sure. The opening scene at the school with Matthew talking to her over the wall mentioned something about her doing it. I think when she came back her dad mentioned something too about her doing it herself.

I won't swear to it but I would say I'm 99% sure that's the case.

I think I have it recorded, I might go back and check...

ahlookit

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I'm fairly sure. The opening scene at the school with Matthew talking to her over the wall mentioned something about her doing it. I think when she came back her dad mentioned something too about her doing it herself.

I won't swear to it but I would say I'm 99% sure that's the case.

I think I have it recorded, I might go back and check...

yeah, I think you're right on the tattoo front.

I can double check later if you don't have a copy of the first episode.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

ahlookit wrote: »

yeah, I think you're right on the tattoo front.

I can double check later if you don't have a copy of the first episode.

I just checked and I've deleted them.

BetsyEllen

I get the impression that Alice (who is not Alice) has been made to come back and pretend to be Alice.
And told to identify the butcher as her kidnapper, for reasons that are as of yet unknown.

And the real kidnappers, whoever they may be, tattooed her to match Alice.

I think the body in the shed is her, how would she have got out and got somebody else in there? The windows were intact and it was locked from the outside.

It was 100% the butcher in the bondage picture, which has lead the wife to now doubt his innocence.

I also think she called the Brigadier by a lesser title as a dig at him, pretending to not know of his promotion, giving the impression of 'you are nothing to me'. So it will be interesting to see the history there and why she clearly dislikes him very much.

ahlookit

I found the dialogue from the opening scene of episode 1.

It can be interpreted either way:

I still can't believe Dad didn't kill you for doing that.
Bloody hell, midget, you shouldn't creep up on people.
Did it hurt?
Not really.
Can I have one?
Just go away.
Mum and Dad are going to go mental if you keep bunking off.

"for doing that" = tattooing yourself or getting it done

ariana`

Spon Farmer wrote: »

A few people are saying the conversation "shocked" Eve but I don't think it was a nasty type shock - more she was surprised and uncomfortable that her father was talking about a woman other than her mother. Perhaps her own affair simply made her think her father may have done something similar years ago. She certainly doesn't suspect him of anything like sex crimes at this stage.

Yeah i'd agree with this, it was surprise or discomfort more than shock. But either way it excludes her from being part of the 'army ring' which some people earlier were including her in. At this point he is still very much her father, a man she probably idolises, or did as a young adult, seeing as she followed in his footsteps career wise.

ahlookit

BetsyEllen wrote: »

I think the body in the shed is her, how would she have got out and got somebody else in there? The windows were intact and it was locked from the outside.

The first night he locked her in the shed, the key was left in the padlock... did we see the padlock when she was locked in the second night?

Could someone have switched in another (possibly already dead) body?

EagererBeaver

BetsyEllen wrote: »

It was 100% the butcher in the bondage picture, which has lead the wife to now doubt his innocence.

I didn't get the impression she was doubting his innocence. Think they're just a kinky couple. Consenting adults being into bondage has nothing to do with paedophilia.

ariana`

EagererBeaver wrote: »

I didn't get the impression she was doubting his innocence. Think they're just a kinky couple. Consenting adults being into bondage has nothing to do with paedophilia.

I think doubting his innocence was more to do with her tone/manner during the phone call. She didn't seem to be in shock or she didn't seem to believe him when he said it would be sorted out soon. And also her tone when she told Andreas about his arrest, it was quite matter of fact, she didn't speak defensively.

Spon Farmer

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I'm fairly sure. The opening scene at the school with Matthew talking to her over the wall mentioned something about her doing it. I think when she came back her dad mentioned something too about her doing it herself.

I won't swear to it but I would say I'm 99% sure that's the case.

I think I have it recorded, I might go back and check...

I checked it on the iPlayer.

Matthew says "I still can't believe Dad didn't kill you for doing that" - "doing that" could mean "for getting a tattoo" or doing it to herself.

I don't know anything about tattoos but I would have thought it looks too neat and tidy to be homemade by some without experience.

The skin around it looked sore - I don't know if it the result of regular tattooing or because she hurt herself doing it at home.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

EagererBeaver wrote: »

I didn't get the impression she was doubting his innocence. Think they're just a kinky couple. Consenting adults being into bondage has nothing to do with paedophilia.

Yes but when they were on the phone he was saying "you know it's not in my nature". If the kinky stuff was his idea and not something she had enjoyed or ever even thought about trying before it's not too much of a stretch to think she might wonder if she didn't know he was into that stuff what else could he be into. I don't think any one is implying if you're into kinky sex you're automatically a paedo. Or, it could of course be a red herring.

Spon Farmer wrote: »

I checked it on the iPlayer.

Matthew says "I still can't believe Dad didn't kill you for doing that" - "doing that" could mean "for getting a tattoo" or doing it to herself.

I don't know anything about tattoos but I would have thought it looks too neat and tidy to be homemade by some without experience.

The skin around it looked sore - I don't know if it the result of regular tattooing or because she hurt herself doing it at home.

If you get a professionally done tattoo the skin will still be red and sore afterwards. The difference is they'll dress it and wrap it, tell you to keep the it covered and dry for x amount of time and depending on the size of it give/recommend a cream to put on it until it's healed.

It is possible she got it done by someone else who wasn't a professional, someone doing tattoos out of the back of his yellow van, for example It certainly didn't look like a professionally done tattoo anyway.

I think there was another scene in that first episode though where her dad talks about the tattoo.

Spon Farmer

BetsyEllen wrote: »

I get the impression that Alice (who is not Alice) has been made to come back and pretend to be Alice.
And told to identify the butcher as her kidnapper, for reasons that are as of yet unknown.

And the real kidnappers, whoever they may be, tattooed her to match Alice.

I think the body in the shed is her, how would she have got out and got somebody else in there? The windows were intact and it was locked from the outside.

It was 100% the butcher in the bondage picture, which has lead the wife to now doubt his innocence.

I also think she called the Brigadier by a lesser title as a dig at him, pretending to not know of his promotion, giving the impression of 'you are nothing to me'. So it will be interesting to see the history there and why she clearly dislikes him very much.

I don't think Sophie was under instruction to impersonate Alice. She wasn't tattooed recently and what she knows of Alice was not learned to be able to take her place. Sophie pretended to be Alice to actually be Alice for her own reasons which will be much more interesting than an attempt to fool the police.
Besides why would someone take that risk - there was no guarantee that she could fool the Websters. Better to let her be Sophie than someone else.
If someone else is involved they could have let her out of the shed. However, I do think we are all believing she is still alive because we expect some level of a happy ending. If it was a US show this would be the case but The Missing has already shown us it doesn't do that.
I don't think Nadia doubts her husbands innocence because of the bondage - she was deleting evidence of both their sex lives so as not to have it revealed and further implicate him. She may be thinking one thing could lead to another (and perhaps she isn't into as much as him) but only seems to begin to have doubts when Eve questions her.
I agree about her and Stone. She doesn't like him and it was a dig. They have a past but I don't think it is connected directly to Alice and Sophie.

Spon Farmer

ahlookit wrote: »

I found the dialogue from the opening scene of episode 1.

It can be interpreted either way:

I still can't believe Dad didn't kill you for doing that.
Bloody hell, midget, you shouldn't creep up on people.
Did it hurt?
Not really.
Can I have one?
Just go away.
Mum and Dad are going to go mental if you keep bunking off.

"for doing that" = tattooing yourself or getting it done

Watched it myself - wish I read on instead and saved myself the effort. :P

BetsyEllen

EagererBeaver wrote: »

I didn't get the impression she was doubting his innocence. Think they're just a kinky couple. Consenting adults being into bondage has nothing to do with paedophilia.

I think you've taken me up completely wrong.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with bondage no, but what I mean is that the fact that she is now looking at that picture (and deleting it) may be her thinking - 'well, he's been accused of keeping 2 girls prisoner. I never would have thought that of him but come to think of it, he was always into tying me up, gagging me etc...maybe that's why...'

I did get the impression she may be slightly doubting him from the way she spoke to him on the phone. Her tone and he said something along the lines of 'we'll look back on this in a few months and laugh' and she said 'hopefully'.

And the fact that she deleted the picture. Why? Because it makes her sick to look at it now, with this doubt in her mind - or because it could be bad evidence against him, if the police were to look at her phone at some stage?

We were shown her looking at that picture for a reason, it obviously means something to the story.