When does this show actually get good?

Paddy Cow

Sand wrote: »

I think Rick took the wrong lessons from the farm and the prison and woodbury. Shane (an insider and the "realist") brought down the farm. The prison collapsed despite (or maybe because) of the "realistic" approach of Rick and Carol. Woodbury was thriving under the Governor by absorbing small groups of survivors, not driving them out - it collapsed because of the Governor fixating on the potential threat of other organised groups of survivors. A mistake he made the second time around too with similar results. Even Terminus survived the worst outcome of a naive open door policy. They didn't survive the worst outcome of a "realistic" policy (provoking outsiders like Rick to fight for their lives). I think as a character, Rick has more to learn from the Alexandrians than they have to learn from him. They have outlived all those failed survivor camps. What is Rick seeking for his family if not what Alexandria have achieved?

The people of Alexandria were very sheltered. If Rick and co hadn't found them, they would not have known about the thousands of walkers waiting to over run their "safe" compound. The people of Alexandria lived a charmed existance and they were lucky to survive this long.

Sand

Paddy Cow wrote: »

The people of Alexandria were very sheltered. If Rick and co hadn't found them, they would not have known about the thousands of walkers waiting to over run their "safe" compound. The people of Alexandria lived a charmed existance and they were lucky to survive this long.

Alexandria was not that sheltered though. It wasnt Rick and Co who found Alexandria, it was Alexandria who found Rick and Co because they were sending out scouts and supply runners beyond the walls to find people who could assist them. Aaron was one of those runners and he didnt curl up into a ball and die when the Wolves entered Alexandria - he fought and killed them.

I think Alexandria gets bizarrely criticised for being secure, well fed and confident. Whereas Rick and Co get bizarrely praised for being insecure, starving and paranoid. Alexandria was a successful survivor community before Rick came along. There is nothing wrong with that.

If we are talking about herd defence, why didn't Rick strengthen the prison defences despite the farm being overrun by a similar herd? Or the governor ramming down the gates with a van? The prison fences were seriously threatened by a few dozen walkers congregating in one spot because a small child left a few mice out. The people of Woodbury were able to build pits and lures to trap wandering walkers - Rick never bothered improving the prison defences or even blocking off the open entrance to the tombs. By contrast, the people of Alexandria quickly recognised a threat and built a defence with their walls. But they are criticised as being asleep, while Rick is awake and aware.

There is a defence for the ricktatorship if he was brutal and effective. The problem is, right now, he is brutal and ineffective. The character can (and does) grow, but right now, Rick showing up at your gate is about as welcome as Angela Lansbury coming to stay.

Wibbs

Sand wrote: »

I mean that guy in particular (it was the crazy Morgan episode), their car was bogged down in the mud and they were trying to push the car out of it. All this while trying to escape from an extra pair of hands to help push. I just found the whole logic the show was pushing there to be so foolish. The skills people have are far more useful than whatever equipment they might carry.

Yea that incident was a head scratcher in logic for me. Sure they were pushing the apocalypse kills your humanity angle, but in reality it would make much more sense to pick the guy up. For a start, here's a guy on his own carrying what he needs and is still alive and kicking over a year after the world went to hell. That's likely a guy with serious and useful skills(which also leaves his convenient bloody demise a head scratcher too) .

sabhail

Wibbs wrote: »

Yea that incident was a head scratcher in logic for me. Sure they were pushing the apocalypse kills your humanity angle, but in reality it would make much more sense to pick the guy up. For a start, here's a guy on his own carrying what he needs and is still alive and kicking over a year after the world went to hell. That's likely a guy with serious and useful skills(which also leaves his convenient bloody demise a head scratcher too) .

Disagree, Rick had much younger Carl with him plus Michonne who he didn't really trust. Stupid to bring in another unknown person who could be a threat.

CramCycle

sabhail wrote: »

Disagree, Rick had much younger Carl with him plus Michonne who he didn't really trust. Stupid to bring in another unknown person who could be a threat.

+1, That was the point, he would potentially lose control of the situation. If it had been Rick and Glenn without the newly intro'd Michonne or Carl. I had forgotten that.

Sand

sabhail wrote: »

Disagree, Rick had much younger Carl with him plus Michonne who he didn't really trust. Stupid to bring in another unknown person who could be a threat.

That's a good rationale, but I don't think Rick ever saw Michonne as a personal threat to him or Carl or he simply would not have brought Carl anywhere near her. He distrusted Michonne in that he didn't see her as reliable or a team player due to her solo run on the attack on Woodbury. He never saw her as a potential threat to him or Carl, and she had already demonstrated she would instinctively side with the group in any clear fight (i.e. killing that recluse, and the battle in Woodbury).

He allowed Michonne to go babysit Carl out of his sight while he is tied up with Morgan - no chance he would permit that if he thought she was likely to do anything other than backup Carl in against a clear threat from any external source.

Like I said, I think its a good rationale, but I don't think that was Ricks thinking in that particular case. I think it was a more simplistic "kill the doctor and take his medicine you have no idea how to use" thinking which the show pushes as realism.

Wibbs wrote: »

Yea that incident was a head scratcher in logic for me. Sure they were pushing the apocalypse kills your humanity angle, but in reality it would make much more sense to pick the guy up. For a start, here's a guy on his own carrying what he needs and is still alive and kicking over a year after the world went to hell. That's likely a guy with serious and useful skills(which also leaves his convenient bloody demise a head scratcher too) .

Yep, and picking the guy up is not necessarily incompatible with losing your humanity. Nobody say Rick ought to be out launching rescue missions, or that he even has to like the guy. But if he takes an angle of viewing human beings as a resource, then its still possible to play on the decline of humanity. We see that in Season 5 with the "Wards" system where humans are rescued, and then essentially enslaved with decisions on if they are worth medical care or even food linked to what skills or labour they can offer the group. Its a brutal, "realistic" system but still based on the more sensible idea that humans are useful.

Cartman78

Getting very close to ditching/abandoning TWD :eek::(:eek::(

Was a big fan of the first few series….(yes..even the Farm Series)...enjoyed it right up to end of the Prison/Governor story arc.

But it’s fallen off a cliff since then imho.

Very very grim and depressing, no end in sight, regurgitated plots, everyone turning into psychos.

The Morgan origin-story episode is of the most pointless depressing episodes of anything I’ve ever sat through

brianregan09

See ya later

The fact that there is a thread on this page about when does the show get good is ridiculous if it's so bad don't watch it like the poster above

brianregan09

brianregan09 wrote: »

See ya later

The fact that there is a thread on this page about when does the show get good is ridiculous if it's so bad don't watch it like the poster above

Ugh the worst argument to grace the internet when discussing TV shows.

brianregan09

Also the worst counter arguement

Its like people come on these threads to dismantle an episode bit by bit , TV show in itself is an escape from reality , Yes theres going to be inaccuracies, mistakes, continuity errors etc people are 100% expecting to be picture perfect from there point of view thing is every one's point of view is different

Lets for argument sake take a few episodes this season the Morgan one lot of people said it was boring and it was **** , these were probably the same people when morgan appeared wearing all this mad get up and carrying a stick wondered what the **** he was upto ....well now you know

I think alot of people are used to shows like CSI and the like were all the episodes are contained more or less but the walking dead when watched as a series (the story) is 100% solid

Any one who's ever written a script or even gotten a short movie made will appreciate the walking dead and its rival game of thrones even more as they know the proper formula for making these things there not meant to be a quick fix , yes the 1st 3 episodes were massive but they were markers for the rest of the series to work 2 reasons why this is 1st off budget some people joke that they can't afford to pay every actor to be in each episode , thats probably not far off the mark and 2 laying the ground work of the characters , like for instance if Deana now dies in the last two episodes i might be a bit pissed off because they really showed her downfall and her recovery really well in episode 5

Cartman78

Cartman78 wrote: »

Getting very close to ditching/abandoning TWD :eek::(:eek::(

Was a big fan of the first few series….(yes..even the Farm Series)...enjoyed it right up to end of the Prison/Governor story arc.

But it’s fallen off a cliff since then imho.

Very very grim and depressing, no end in sight, regurgitated plots, everyone turning into psychos.

The Morgan origin-story episode is of the most pointless depressing episodes of anything I’ve ever sat through

I'll probably grimly stick with it in fairness after having come this far....would hate to miss it if it did actually get good again

brianregan09

brianregan09 wrote: »

Also the worst counter arguement

Its like people come on these threads to dismantle an episode bit by bit , TV show in itself is an escape from reality , Yes theres going to be inaccuracies, mistakes, continuity errors etc people are 100% expecting to be picture perfect from there point of view thing is every one's point of view is different

Lets for argument sake take a few episodes this season the Morgan one lot of people said it was boring and it was **** , these were probably the same people when morgan appeared wearing all this mad get up and carrying a stick wondered what the **** he was upto ....well now you know

I think alot of people are used to shows like CSI and the like were all the episodes are contained more or less but the walking dead when watched as a series (the story) is 100% solid

Any one who's ever written a script or even gotten a short movie made will appreciate the walking dead and its rival game of thrones even more as they know the proper formula for making these things there not meant to be a quick fix , yes the 1st 3 episodes were massive but they were markers for the rest of the series to work 2 reasons why this is 1st off budget some people joke that they can't afford to pay every actor to be in each episode , thats probably not far off the mark and 2 laying the ground work of the characters , like for instance if Deana now dies in the last two episodes i might be a bit pissed off because they really showed her downfall and her recovery really well in episode 5

Whats the worst counter argument?

"If it's so bad, don't watch" is the argumentative equivalent of sticking your head in the sand.

NMB

"When does this show actually get good ?"
Valentines day 2016






(personally I always loved it but Valentines blew up my tiny friggin' mind)

noodler

Thought season one was crap.


Season two was brilliant.

tommy2bad

noodler wrote: »

Thought season one was crap.


Season two was brilliant.

Oohhh! Controversial :-0

teddykrueger

Loved season one! I was over in the States for a few months at the time and they showed the entire first season over the course of 5 nights. Great viewing!

Also, loved season 2 and 3 (for the most part).

I did lose intrerest in season 4 a bit, but 5 and 6 so far have been excellent.

Enjoyed reading the thread, though I'll never understand how a comic can be better than a TV show. Surely it's down to which ever medium you prefer to consume that makes it more enjoyable? I digress.

I liked Wibbs' post on the history of the 'Utopia'. Spot on.

Niemoj

Been rewatching it from the beginning (so s6 will make more sense) and imo 2 and 3 are the highlights, 4 and 5 were boring (I didn't even finish 5, lost interest!).

noodler

How people didn't like season two is beyond me.

It was sharp, focused and had a couple of brilliant revelations.

Effects

All the scenes to do with finding Terminus, and Terminus itself were terrible.
Everything to do with Grady Memorial Hospital was appalling. From the story line right through to the acting. That's when I stopped watching.
Happened across episode ten of season six on the TV a while back and watched. Glad that the show had improved drastically and I'm back watching it every week now!

razorblunt

On episode 4 of season 6 now. I can;t help but react out loud every time a walker "sneaks" up on someone, usually in the woods.
Nevermind they shuffle and make noise. FFS.

I picture them like this:

Gal44

I stopped watching after season five I loved the first four seasons but season 5 I couldn't like.. Now I wondering does it improve? Should I just pick it up again now that rte are showing season 6? I used to really enjoy it but season 5 bored me!

The Talking Bread

Gal44 wrote: »

I stopped watching after season five I loved the first four seasons but season 5 I couldn't like.. Now I wondering does it improve? Should I just pick it up again now that rte are showing season 6? I used to really enjoy it but season 5 bored me!

Its all your own perception. Every season, episode has it's lulls but this question of "when does it get good again" is pointless, as the response will always be subjective.

Saying that if you did need to be somewhat reassured, MOST perceive S5 to be the least memorable and it had some annoying plot arcs which didn't serve much but to tie up loose ends and provide a means to an end to the next few seasons at Alexandria. Being honest, if you got through Season 5 and it bored you rather than turned you completely off, trust me it can only get better for you in Season 6 and the overall sypnosis of this season and the next season's prospects is extremely positive, devoted fan or not.

Season 6 sees a more stable environment in term of setting and episode fluidity) whilst S5 felt like it just was a series of "individual" episodes tying up a couple of loose ends, adding a few characters, killing a few off and didnt flow from one episode to the next as they were on the road so much and it was really a case of the show being in limbo between The Prison and Terminus and Alexandria. In a way it served its purpose, albeit at the expense of losing a percentage of viewers in the interim.

Some memorable moments in S5 but it just didnt feel like a story, more like a series of episodes, best way I can put it, in simplistic fashion which served to lack suspense or epicness at times. It also didnt have any real epic villainry, nor a huge force to be reckoned with. The cannibals were a real let down and more freaks than forces to be reckoned with.

I definitely urge you to watch Season 6. Even just catch up with the latter half if you have no other access which is currently airing on RTE 2 on Tuesday nights and there are roughly 6 episodes left. The second half is very fast paced compared to the first half and you will definitely, I feel, will be invigorated again. And you wont have to endure the awful dumpster cr*pology!! There is a bit of a homely feel to it, some said it was soapish at times due to the setting but the living in the wild has seen its day for now and its just a natural step forward for a post apocalyptic world to find its feet somewhat as inhabitants try to find their feet and become more accustomed to the environment and danfgers.

As a comic fan, TRUST me, Season 7 has potential to be best season yet. No exaggeration.



So yeah, it is worth getting into and it has, putting myself into your shoes, with a high degree of confidence, improved.

Gal44

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Its all your own perception. Every season, episode has it's lulls but this question of "when does it get good again" is pointless, as the response will always be subjective.

Saying that if you did need to be somewhat reassured, MOST perceive S5 to be the least memorable and it had some annoying plot arcs which didn't serve much but to tie up loose ends and provide a means to an end to the next few seasons at Alexandria. Being honest, if you got through Season 5 and it bored you rather than turned you completely off, trust me it can only get better for you in Season 6 and the overall sypnosis of this season and the next season's prospects is extremely positive, devoted fan or not.

Season 6 sees a more stable environment in term of setting and episode fluidity) whilst S5 felt like it just was a series of "individual" episodes tying up a couple of loose ends, adding a few characters, killing a few off and didnt flow from one episode to the next as they were on the road so much and it was really a case of the show being in limbo between The Prison and Terminus and Alexandria. In a way it served its purpose, albeit at the expense of losing a percentage of viewers in the interim.

Some memorable moments in S5 but it just didnt feel like a story, more like a series of episodes, best way I can put it, in simplistic fashion which served to lack suspense or epicness at times. It also didnt have any real epic villainry, nor a huge force to be reckoned with. The cannibals were a real let down and more freaks than forces to be reckoned with.

I definitely urge you to watch Season 6. Even just catch up with the latter half if you have no other access which is currently airing on RTE 2 on Tuesday nights and there are roughly 6 episodes left. The second half is very fast paced compared to the first half and you will definitely, I feel, will be invigorated again. And you wont have to endure the awful dumpster cr*pology!! There is a bit of a homely feel to it, some said it was soapish at times due to the setting but the living in the wild has seen its day for now and its just a natural step forward for a post apocalyptic world to find its feet somewhat as inhabitants try to find their feet and become more accustomed to the environment and danfgers.

As a comic fan, TRUST me, Season 7 has potential to be best season yet. No exaggeration.



So yeah, it is worth getting into and it has, putting myself into your shoes, with a high degree of confidence, improved.

Brilliant thanks so much for your post!