Have to leave - is there social welfare support I can get?

LegacyUser

I have come to the end of the line at work and its all happened very quickly.
See below the **********'s if you want to skip the background

I work in a heavily commission / bonus based role, however over the past two months targets have been doubled and the bonus part of commission been removed. Net result is I am going to take a significant hit financially.
Added to this having worked successfully on my own for over 10 years in the company and generating significant revenue and profits I now have to hand over clients that I have nurtured and serviced for years to new staff members and I will only get commission on new clients brought in and managed. These new staff members will get half of what what was my commission, I will get none, even though its my mobile that keeps ringing every time something needs changing.

Now as an educated person its plain to see I am being "engineered out". They know what my commitments are and know I am screwed. Others in the office have said as much.

It even appears that emails are being intercepted, as I have been contacted by phone by a client after another staff member returned mails sent for me.

I've asked why they are doing this to me and been pretty much given a prepared corporate speech. The current business model is not sustainable bla bla bla. These are not your clients they are the companies clients to do with and manage as we please. All of which in varying degrees are true, I'm not that naive to think other wise.

What they dont realise is what goes on behind the scenes. I am the one that sponsors my clients kids sponsored walk / swim / charity cycle etc. I am the one that has to get them tickets for what ever big game is on because "we dont want to be seen to do that", I buy the wedding present, attend the funeral do all the things that dont appear on the management accounts. Over 10 years you build relationships, I've been to a clients wedding, meet some socially their business is mine whether I work here or else where in a good number of cases. But my management just see me as a massive overhead that can be replaced by grads, which maybe true - time will tell.

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Rather than go work for another company I'd like to try give work ago on my own. If I resign is there any thing that I can get from social welfare to keep me ticking over, I'd be looking at a 6 month lead in before I'd get first paid.

Having spoken to a friend there is an argument that I could get a constructive dismissal but my industry is too small, if things didn't work out for me long term I'd be ruined professionally.

The office environment is poison, things have been said that there is no going back from and there is now a stand off, they wont make me redundant or fire me and I wont resign. I am stressed to the extent that work is impacting on my health, mental and physical. I'm not alone in what has happened another person here is in the same boat as me.

Any advice gratefully accepted

happywithlife

All I know is if you voluntarily leave your job there is a 9 week waiting period before you can claim JSBENEFIT
This is from the citizens information website

If you leave work voluntarily or as a result of misconduct, you cannot get a jobseeker’s payment for 9 weeks. However, if you have ‘good cause’ to leave voluntarily, for example, any changes in working conditions such as a reduction in pay, harassment or abuse from your employer, you may get your payment. The Deciding Officer in your social welfare local office or Intreo centre will decide whether you had good cause to leave voluntarily.

BelleOfTheBall

Go sick!!not worth that stress let them sweat it out.i wish u the best of luck.i think the there's start up part time courses I think get urself some ground work done on what idea u have at least ud have that support. It would b business start up hope might put u in the right direction.keep us posted and stay positive

LegacyUser

Hi - OP here

Thanks for the response guys.

I got a medical cert for 2 weeks. but to be honest I cant afford to use it, we have no sick pay and while I appreciate there is a Social Welfare safety net in that instance it isn't going to sort the issue for me.

Its getting to the stage that I need to get let go, but I'm not the kind of person to down tools. It wont help my case with clients going forward. And I cant bad mouth my company as that would ruin my chances of setting up on my own.

The timing for this could not be worse for me. I've just bought a flat and am cleaned out financially. I'm sure this has prompted what's happened. They know I'm screwed...... Six months ago I could have walked away with out a care in the world.

Mrs OBumble

Witts End wrote: »

The timing for this could not be worse for me. I've just bought a flat and am cleaned out financially. I'm sure this has prompted what's happened. They know I'm screwed...... Six months ago I could have walked away with out a care in the world.

In that case, I think you should just go and find another job. Without some savings behind you, you are not in a position to start a business yourself.

If you get made redundant, you could go on the dole for however-many-months it would take to access the Enterprise Allowance style scheme that gives help to unemployed people starting a small business. (I think it's six - not sure of the details).

However if you quit or are fired due to misconduct, there is a nine-week standdown before you get any welfare - which means even more delay before you're eligible for a scheme.

There may be some assistance for starting a business via your Local Enterprise Office (new name/brand for City and County Enterprise Boards) - but I don't think this would be enough to live on.

Sleepy

Would any of the clients you're close to be in the position to bankroll you in a new business venture as an angel investor? Would your bank manager give you a business loan?

davo10

Op, is there any chance your employer has caught wind of your plan to start up your own business? By the sounds of things you plan to approach their clients after you leave, and at the moment they are your employers clients. If they suspect you are leaving to go into competition with them, it would certainly make business sense for them to limit your contact with clients and monitor your correspondence to see if you are trying to poach them. If you have given the vibe you are about to leave or have informed a "trusted" colleague, then they are winding down your involvement with client accounts and transferring responsibility to someone else.

NinjaTruncs

davo10 wrote: »

Op, is there any chance your employer has caught wind of your plan to start up your own business? By the sounds of things you plan to approach their clients after you leave, and at the moment they are your employers clients. If they suspect you are leaving to go into competition with them, it would certainly make business sense for them to limit your contact with clients and monitor your correspondence to see if you are trying to poach them. If you have given the vibe you are about to leave or have informed a "trusted" colleague, then they are winding down your involvement with client accounts and transferring responsibility to someone else.

I don't pick this up from the OP. It sounds like the existing customers have been transferred to other people who are paid less commission and the OP needs to find new customers. It's obviously harder to find new customers than keep old customers.

OP is it possible for yourself and your other colleague who is in the same boat to join up and create a partnership.

You say you'd need a number of months to get a cash flow coming in, could you start up your new business while employed by your current employer and resign closer to when your new company is ready to operate?

I wouldn't usually suggest such practices however it seems like your employer is trying to screen you over and get you out so why not take advantage.

tenifan

My advice is to leave and try to take the clients with you. Certainly have no part in training staff to take your job.

LegacyUser

I would get legal advice on what to do in this circumstance. If you decided not to go down the legal route I would do the following

Get as much information as possible about all your present and past customers.
Use usb sticks to get information off the computer system if this can't be detected.
Start to net work with them outside the business and see if they would be interested in working with you again.
Let them know in a nice way ie Sorry John I have not been in contact with you but they have given my account with you to x. Then ask John about his wife, children or golf ect.
Your not slating the company doing this but just letting John know in a nice way what is happening. Then ask John would he be interested in work with you in the future?
Give him your new mobile number if he wants to contact you.

Get a major customer to ring your manager/owner to give out about the lack of service they are getting from the new person looking after there account.

If your company have decided to push you out I would do the following:
a) refuse to train anyone for them
b) when customer come back complaining to you just explain that you are no long working on there account but they can contact the owner/manager
c) if your manager/owner come back complaining to you - you can say well John is no long my customer and I have been asked not to talk/contact them to them

Find out the names of any companies or suppliers that your company deal with. Send them typed letter and put the following on it
I am just letting you that //// is having some financial trouble and I would advise you to contact them for a full payment of any money due to you. I would advise you not to take a cheque from them as it will bounce but ask for full payment by eft.
The staff here are not getting paid on time and some of the staff cheques are have bounced recently. I also believe that revenue are currently waiting payment.
Then put on this please contact manager/owner

Once you send out these letters start to get your friends to ring saying they are calling from such a company and asking when are they getting paid, tell who every they speak to I won't take another bounced cheque & then say they heard the company is going to close. Let the receptionist take these calls & by the end of the day it will be around the whole office that were your working is in trouble.

After this I would make an call to revenue and tell them you believe that your boss is currently paying staff cash in hand and he is taking cash payments and not putting them through the books. If revenue get a call like this they may decided to do a company audit. They will fine tooth comb the business and by law they can see every bit of paper work ie invoices, bank statements ect. They will keep a close eye on the business & if the business is late with any payments they will chase up on it quickly.
If revenue follow this up you boss/owner will have to spend days getting paper work in order. When revenue call they will have to account for every one cent going in and out of the business.

Since your boss has taken on some grads recently you could also ring up the department of social welfare and tell them I believe this company are paying some staff cash in hand. Tell them the names of the new people who have started in the company and tell them it might be worth there while cheeking them out.

If your company has people doing manual work/working on machines or a factory you could also ring the health and safety authority and tell them that the factory is not safe.
If they deal with chemicals ect you could ring the local council and tell them they are not disposing of these properly.

I would not say the above is entirely legal but if your boss is treating you like this let them get some hassle from elsewhere.

LegacyUser

OP here.

Its nearly 3 months on and a lot has changed - hopefully for the better.

I spoke to one of my most trusted clients and explained what I felt was happening.

Next week I'm taking a desk in a Building they own with the agreement of their tenants in return for a bit of free/unpaid consultancy. And this client has paid me a retainer for some project work to be completed over the next 12 months, with no restrictions on working with other companies.

I asked my old employer again what there plans were and asked up front if they wanted to get rid of me. The answer was neither a yes or a no. I pointed out the fact that they refuse to say no is as good as a yes to me. I told them that the advice I had sought advised me that they we pushing me out and that it is effectively a constructive dismissal. At this point things got rather heated so I walked out and returned to my desk. After two weeks of being completely avoided (team meetings were even held when i was out of the office) I caught my manager early in the morning an stated that what was going on constituted a dismissal and if they wanted me to work my notice that I would and if not pay me up and I'll be gone. Again I was ignored and avoided for about two weeks. At this stage the whole office knew what was happening. It became quite comical really.

I received a letter in the post to my home address asking for my resignation and with a load of stipulations such as leaving the industry, not communicating with clients, suppliers or employees of the company for 12 months etc. in return they would pay me my four weeks notice.

I handed the letter to my solicitor who said that in the interest of all concerned that I should give the letter back to them unsigned as it was an "embarrassment to the company that they even though this was acceptable".

I gave the letter back to the manager that had signed it stating that my solicitor thought "you were clowns" and that I was better off out of there. I asked him to pay me up to the end of the month and I'd be gone, he refused without my resignation and the letter being signed.

I said good bye and have not heard from anyone since.............. I got paid at the end of the month and got my P45. And that's it after 10 years plus, not even a hand shake.

I've had four weeks off and I start working for myself on Monday...... with 3 clients and more to come.

Thank you all for allowing me to vent - I think the process of writing down what was going on actually convinced me on what had to be done.

Nody

Best of luck in your new endeavors; your solicitor was right though that's really a clown level mistake by the company that I'm sure they'll regret on many levels.

blindsider

OP- sounds like you've done pretty well!

Unfortunately, sometimes people see a short term gain, and don't think about the long term repercussions.

I hope you manage to win new business and create a niche for yourself.

Very best of luck!

the_syco

Witts End wrote: »

These new staff members will get half of what what was my commission, I will get none, even though its my mobile that keeps ringing every time something needs changing.

Is the mobile yours or the company? If the mobile number is yours, ensure you keep it powered on and topped up on some minimalist bill-pay plan, as it'll be the number your old (soon to be current) clients will most likely ring you on.

Very well done on the new desk and the retainer!