The cost of childcare vs doing it yourself?

Rose35

eviltwin wrote: »

I'm not a fan of creches but they are a necessary service for parents who aren't lucky enough to be able to stay at home or have a family member who can child mind. There are good and bad out there, my son did his ECCE year in a creche that's part of a well known chain, we could see into the baby room every morning and the kids were just left there sitting in cots crying. On the other hand I have a friend who works in a small family run creche who wouldn't hesitate to put her own child in it. Of course no care will ever be as good as one on one parent or family member but there are lots of ideals we as parents don't achieve. We just do the best we can. But parents should do their homework and make sure the service they choose is a good one and not assume all creches are the same.

Absolutely that goes without saying.................

pwurple

Ahh Samediff, welcome to my ignore list. That's much better!

SameDiff

pwurple wrote: »

Ahh Samediff, welcome to my ignore list. That's much better!

From questioning my employment status to clicking "ignore".

What a classy poster. Readers, give this one your undivided attention, she's a keeper!

Sweet Rose

volchitsa wrote: »

My kids are almost grown up now, and I would say that good child care matters more than the kind of childcare - and that can be crèche, childminder or parent. We've done all three, and all can work, or not.

One thing I'd say about giving up your job is not just to look at it in the short or even medium term, it's a decision that will have huge consequences for the rest of your lives, including retirement. That probably seems irrelevant now, but I have friends who worked part time, or stopped completely, for years (even when it was only meant to be short term, several children arriving in a row meant it never really seemed logical to go back) and who are now coming to a point where they are looking at retirement rights - and you really pay a huge price for those years out.

All in all, if you can afford financially to work part time for a few years, that is probably ideal for everyone - but be aware that there is a price to pay for that even years down the line. It's horrible at the time to think that you are working to pay the crèche fees - but you aren't really, it's an investment in your future earning power.

The way we're programmed as a society is to live for the future. We're being taught that we're on a tall ladder with lots of steps ahead of us, always looking for somewhere else to go. It's good to stop and enjoy each step instead of thinking too far ahead. I'm trying to live in the here and now and enjoy my child now. Not tomorrow, or next year. Today.

My mother died at 62, my grandmother at 63. My grandfather was only 3 years into his retirement when he died. This has taught me to live in the present.

As I said I'm a huge advocator of stay at home parents. They have a pivitol role to play in my eyes. I have seen this day in, day out in my job. The fact that I had a great role model of this in my own life is why I'd promote it too. There was nothing nicer than running off the bus after a long day at school, with my mum greeting us at the door with a big hug and a lovely home cooked meal on the table everyday. I have amazing memories of a great mother and an amazing childhood with a solid figure with us the whole way through.

I just wish that more parents are able to afford to stay at home nowadays.

I'm paying in for a pension now but hell knows, 35 years might come around and I might never get the damn thing. But first, I'm going to live the majority of my life and I'll think about it then.

SameDiff

eviltwin wrote: »

I'm not a fan of creches but they are a necessary service for parents who aren't lucky enough to be able to stay at home or have a family member who can child mind. There are good and bad out there, my son did his ECCE year in a creche that's part of a well known chain, we could see into the baby room every morning and the kids were just left there sitting in cots crying. On the other hand I have a friend who works in a small family run creche who wouldn't hesitate to put her own child in it. Of course no care will ever be as good as one on one parent or family member but there are lots of ideals we as parents don't achieve. We just do the best we can. But parents should do their homework and make sure the service they choose is a good one and not assume all creches are the same.

Thanks for that post, excellent insight. It is true not all families are lucky enough for one to stay at home (that is our government's fault for allowing more than one salary on a mortgage application).

Very sad image of a child crying alone.

I know of some parents where one is actually at home while baby is in the creche. It is staggering to me that someone could do this. As a dad in full-time work, I longed to see my baby. I could not have relaxed while a paid teenager was giving him lunch, while I had mine. It is so unnatural.

ThisRegard

SameDiff wrote: »

From questioning my employment status to clicking "ignore".

What a classy poster. Readers, give this one your undivided attention, she's a keeper!

In fairness, I have to assume you read my response to you if you've seen hers.

So how about getting back on track and offering up a reply ?

SameDiff

eviltwin wrote: »

I'm not a fan of creches but they are a necessary service for parents who aren't lucky enough to be able to stay at home or have a family member who can child mind. There are good and bad out there, my son did his ECCE year in a creche that's part of a well known chain, we could see into the baby room every morning and the kids were just left there sitting in cots crying. On the other hand I have a friend who works in a small family run creche who wouldn't hesitate to put her own child in it. Of course no care will ever be as good as one on one parent or family member but there are lots of ideals we as parents don't achieve. We just do the best we can. But parents should do their homework and make sure the service they choose is a good one and not assume all creches are the same.

Thanks for that post, excellent insight. It is true not all families are lucky enough for one to stay at home (that is our government's fault for allowing more than one salary on a mortgage application, busting the cost of homes to ridiculous levels while benefiting no one but themselves).

You give a very sad image of a child crying alone in Ireland in 2014.

I know of some parents where one is actually at home while baby is in the creche. It is staggering to me that someone could do this. As a dad in full-time work, I longed to see my baby. I could not have relaxed while a paid teenager was giving him lunch, while I had mine. It is so unnatural.

SameDiff

double post

ThisRegard

SameDiff wrote: »

Thanks for that post, excellent insight. It is true not all families are lucky enough for one to stay at home

2 things.

It's an insight to one particular crèche.

Secondly, it's a mistake to assume that all families in which both parents work are unlucky. They're not, for many it's a choice for reasons already mentioned.

SameDiff

ThisRegard wrote: »

What damage ? What consequence ? Huddle in chaotic groups ? Are we in a post apocalyptic world or something? Don't just throw out phrases like this without expanding on what you mean.

I would argue it was as widespread in the 90s as it is now, so many of those kids are well into secondary school or college.

Apologies ThisRegard for late response.

First up, they are chaotic groups. The vast majority of creche workers are minimum wage teenage girls who cannot get a job elsewhere. That they pose no danger to the child is grounds for employment. I went out with one for two years, she was as thick as bricks.

In a situation like Dublin, creches are competing on prices, so the cheaper the better, hence they are huddled....as many children to one minder as legislation allows.


Finally, the mortgage lending based on more than one income is a very recent revelation, coinciding with the catastrophic relaxation of bank regulation. If it was still one loan, one house, house prices would not have risen to the point where both parents need to work to make loan repayments on overblown mortgages at the sacrifice of their child's wellbeing, while communally justifying their reasons to dilute the cruelty.

Read this forum anyday of the week and you will see the following clichéd phrase:

"Being a mother means accepting guilt"

My mother never felt guilty.

SameDiff

ThisRegard wrote: »

What damage ? What consequence ? Huddle in chaotic groups ? Are we in a post apocalyptic world or something? Don't just throw out phrases like this without expanding on what you mean.

I would argue it was as widespread in the 90s as it is now, so many of those kids are well into secondary school or college.

Apologies ThisRegard for late response.

First up, they are chaotic groups. The vast majority of creche workers are minimum wage teenage girls who cannot get a job elsewhere. That they pose no danger to the child is grounds for employment. I went out with one for two years, she was as thick as bricks.

Secondly, in a situation like Dublin, creches are competing on prices, so the cheaper the better, hence they are huddled....as many children to one minder as legislation allows.


Finally, the mortgage lending based on more than one income is a very recent revelation, coinciding with the catastrophic relaxation of bank regulation. If it was still one loan, one house, house prices would not have risen to the point where both parents need to work to make loan repayments on overblown mortgages at the sacrifice of their child's wellbeing, while communally justifying their reasons to dilute the cruelty.

Read this forum anyday of the week and you will see the following clichéd phrase:

"Being a mother means accepting guilt"

My mother never felt guilty.

SameDiff

double post

ThisRegard

You went out with one girl, who by your own account was a bit of an idiot, who happened to work in one. But it means you now know everything about everyone who works in them? You do like your generalisations.

How's our dystopian future going to come about?

SameDiff

Sweet Rose wrote: »

I just wish that more parents are able to afford to stay at home nowadays.

Some can't afford it.

Most can, but don't want to stay at home. Drinking tea, talking bollocks is a lot easier than looking after toddlers.

Looking after children is the hardest job in the world and some mothers will pay someone else to do it.

ThisRegard

As I said, you love your generalisations.

SameDiff

ThisRegard wrote: »

You went out with one girl, who by your own account was a bit of an idiot, who happened to work in one. But it means you now know everything about everyone who works in them? You do like your generalisations.

How's our dystopian future going to come about?

"Dystopian future"?

You mean the one that most of the world currently has?

lazygal

SameDiff wrote: »

Some can't afford it.

Most can, but don't want to stay at home. Drinking tea, talking bollocks is a lot easier than looking after toddlers.

Looking after children is the hardest job in the world and some mothers will pay someone else to do it.

What about fathers? Do they pay someone to do it?
I could afford to stay home but I don't want to. Is there something wrong with that?

Rose35

SameDiff wrote: »

Apologies ThisRegard for late response.

First up, they are chaotic groups. The vast majority of creche workers are minimum wage teenage girls who cannot get a job elsewhere. That they pose no danger to the child is grounds for employment. I went out with one for two years, she was as thick as bricks.

Secondly, in a situation like Dublin, creches are competing on prices, so the cheaper the better, hence they are huddled....as many children to one minder as legislation allows.


Finally, the mortgage lending based on more than one income is a very recent revelation, coinciding with the catastrophic relaxation of bank regulation. If it was still one loan, one house, house prices would not have risen to the point where both parents need to work to make loan repayments on overblown mortgages at the sacrifice of their child's wellbeing, while communally justifying their reasons to dilute the cruelty.

Read this forum anyday of the week and you will see the following clichéd phrase:

"Being a mother means accepting guilt"

My mother never felt guilty.

That explains a lot about you:D, now where is that ignore list, your beginning to annoy me .. (we own our own house by the way and still use childcare :rolleyes:)

ArnieSilvia

In our case it was a natural decision because I was brought up in a creche, my parents were old and busy with their own things and they didn't care (or that's how I saw it). We didn't want this for our own children so we set up my family early so they could enjoy having young parents who actually bring up their own kids.

I'll actually back up mothers staying at home as it has one more benefit - happy wife greeting me every day, tidy house, fresh dinner and happy kids. Of course I had to do my share and I "took over" from my wife after coming back so she could relax, but this helped to bond with kids and wife even better. We had best time of our lives when wife was at home minding kids.

eviltwin

SameDiff wrote: »

Apologies ThisRegard for late response.

First up, they are chaotic groups. The vast majority of creche workers are minimum wage teenage girls who cannot get a job elsewhere. That they pose no danger to the child is grounds for employment. I went out with one for two years, she was as thick as bricks.

Secondly, in a situation like Dublin, creches are competing on prices, so the cheaper the better, hence they are huddled....as many children to one minder as legislation allows.


Finally, the mortgage lending based on more than one income is a very recent revelation, coinciding with the catastrophic relaxation of bank regulation. If it was still one loan, one house, house prices would not have risen to the point where both parents need to work to make loan repayments on overblown mortgages at the sacrifice of their child's wellbeing, while communally justifying their reasons to dilute the cruelty.

Read this forum anyday of the week and you will see the following clichéd phrase:

"Being a mother means accepting guilt"

My mother never felt guilty.

Absolute rubbish. Not one of the 20+ staff members in the creche my son went to was a teenager. They were all qualified and clearly loved their jobs. My son still talks about the preschool experience and teacher to this day, she was wonderful. The baby room was just one room out of the entire building and while it wasn't ideal in my opinion it was just one room, I did mention another creche that is totally different but you didn't mention that I see when quoting my post :rolleyes:

SameDiff

lazygal wrote: »

What about fathers? Do they pay someone to do it?
I could afford to stay home but I don't want to. Is there something wrong with that?

Yes, you are doing your child a disservice. Do you realise how many couples there are that cannot have children, who would not do what you did?

Do you realise your child has no say in the matter, but only wants to be with their parents?

Do you realise that earlier on in this thread, you said that your mother worked all hours and that "you were fine"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX8szNPgrEs

SameDiff

eviltwin wrote: »

Absolute rubbish. Not one of the 20+ staff members in the creche my son went to was a teenager. They were all qualified and clearly loved their jobs. My son still talks about the preschool experience and teacher to this day, she was wonderful. The baby room was just one room out of the entire building and while it wasn't ideal in my opinion it was just one room, I did mention another creche that is totally different but you didn't mention that I see when quoting my post :rolleyes:

"the baby room wasn't ideal, but it was just one room"

A minute ago you said you could see babies in high chairs alone crying. You sound like an old nazi, excusing your involvement and backtracking.

Spare me, please, that's embarrassing.

eviltwin

SameDiff wrote: »

Yes, you are doing your child a disservice. Do you realise how many couples there are that cannot have children, who would not do what you did?

Do you realise your child has no say in the matter, but only wants to be with their parents?

Do you realise that earlier on in this thread, you said that your mother worked all hours and that "you were fine"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX8szNPgrEs

Are you seriously saying parents should just quit their job now to stay home because they were lucky enough to have children :rolleyes: Honestly you dont' like creches that's fine, don't use one so but don't assume any child in one is going to turn out a mess. My daughter who is almost 18 didn't go to creche, she was cared for by my mother in law and my husband. Most of her close friends were in the creche system and they are just fine, they are great kids in fact, not a single tearaway or person with mammy issues among them. On the other hand I can think of certain people in my area who were at home with a parent all day who are complete losers.

eviltwin

SameDiff wrote: »

"the baby room wasn't ideal, but it was just one room"

A minute ago you said you could see babies in high chairs alone crying. You sound like an old nazi, excusing your involvement and backtracking.

Spare me, please, that's embarrassing.

Yes I could see babies crying in the baby room, it was ONE room. How is that backtracking exactly?

And comparing me to a Nazi....really

Sweet Rose

eviltwin wrote: »

Are you seriously saying parents should just quit their job now to stay home because they were lucky enough to have children :rolleyes: Honestly you dont' like creches that's fine, don't use one so but don't assume any child in one is going to turn out a mess. My daughter who is almost 18 didn't go to creche, she was cared for by my mother in law and my husband. Most of her close friends were in the creche system and they are just fine, they are great kids in fact, not a single tearaway or person with mammy issues among them. On the other hand I can think of certain people in my area who were at home with a parent all day who are complete losers.

To me that comes down to some people who just shouldn't become parents, whether they work or not. It's not a decision you should take lightly but a lot of people do and do a ****ty job of it then.

SameDiff

eviltwin wrote: »

Yes I could see babies crying in the baby room, it was ONE room. How is that backtracking exactly?

And comparing me to a Nazi....really

One room is ok I suppose! At least it wasn't every room eh?

pwurple

I'd hedge a bet the eejit on my ignore list doesn't look even after his own children... but has his spouse doing it for slave wages.

eviltwin

SameDiff wrote: »

One room is ok I suppose! At least it wasn't every room eh?

As I said my son was very happy and was at an age where he was well able to talk about his day so had there been any problems I'm sure he would have told us. And yep, myself and my other half, terrible parents that we are, loved having the mornings to ourselves, it was fantastic!

SameDiff

eviltwin wrote: »

Are you seriously saying parents should just quit their job now to stay home because they were lucky enough to have children :rolleyes: Honestly you dont' like creches that's fine, don't use one so but don't assume any child in one is going to turn out a mess. My daughter who is almost 18 didn't go to creche, she was cared for by my mother in law and my husband. Most of her close friends were in the creche system and they are just fine, they are great kids in fact, not a single tearaway or person with mammy issues among them. On the other hand I can think of certain people in my area who were at home with a parent all day who are complete losers.

If there's one thing worse than parents chucking their kids into a creche, it's ones who chuck them to the grandparents, virtually free of charge , emotionally blackmailing them to bring up very young children while in their retirement years.

SameDiff

eviltwin wrote: »

As I said my son was very happy and was at an age where he was well able to talk about his day so had there been any problems I'm sure he would have told us. And yep, myself and my other half, terrible parents that we are, loved having the mornings to ourselves, it was fantastic!

Personally I wouldn't take counsel from a two year old. I wouldn't use their opinion as a basis for my decisions as a father. If I did, they would not go to bed until 11pm and eat biscuits as their main meal.

But hey, glad he's enjoying it (I wonder if he wasn't, would it make any difference?).