Cancelled Wiggle Zonda wheel offer

AstraMonti

ted1 wrote: »

With online orders you havn't paid, there's a difference.

Yes, yes you have. Its just that numbers are changing accounts instead of real money exchanging hands.

buffalo

codie wrote: »

I just spoke with someone in citizens information and Astramonti is right.He told me that once payment has gone through there is a legal contract.Let wiggle know that you are not accepting the money back .He also gave me number for the European consumer issues but that closed at 3.

Is the law the same in the UK as it is here?

AstraMonti

buffalo wrote: »

Is the law the same in the UK as it is here?

I think its a european law-directive. Maybe someone closer to that side of the law can explain to us.

buffalo

stecleary wrote: »

They have themselves well covered

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/h/option/terms_conditions#termsofservice

Our Contract
When you place an order, you will receive an acknowledgement e-mail confirming receipt of your order. This email will only be an acknowledgement and will not constitute acceptance of your order. Wiggle retains the right to accept or reject this offer before processing the order. A contract between us for the purchase of the goods will not be formed until your payment has been approved by us, the prices have been verified, and the order has been processed and dispatched. A second email will be sent confirming these arrangements.

The above, combined with the below, from UK advice on distance selling, seems to imply that Wiggle don't have to honour the agreement (edit: unless the goods have been dispatched):

To work out whether the trader has accepted your offer, you'll need to check the following:

* the wording of your confirmation email or letter. For example, it might specify that the trader has accepted your offer
* the terms and conditions. For example, they might say when acceptance takes place
* whether the goods have been sent out or the service has started – if they have, it would be safe to assume that the trader has accepted your offer
* if payment has been taken. If payment has been taken from you this does not necessarily mean acceptance has happened, but it could be a good indicator.

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/consumer_different_ways_of_buying_e/consumer_buying_by_internet_mail_order_or_phone_e/how_a_distance_sale_contract_is_made.htm

codie

buffalo wrote: »

Is the law the same in the UK as it is here?

Guy said he would be fairly sure its same for UK but to ring European consumer issues to make sure.

ted1

AstraMonti wrote: »

Yes, yes you have. Its just that numbers are changing accounts instead of real money exchanging hands.

No, a hold is placed on your account but the payment isn't processed till the order is fulfilled by the vendor

ted1

AstraMonti wrote: »

I think its a european law-directive. Maybe someone closer to that side of the law can explain to us.

Directive are not laws, there directives that should be used to make a law. But until there writing into law they don't mean much.

Unknown Soldier

"and fully reimbursed all effected customers"

"and fully reimbursed all affected customers"

codie

ted1 wrote: »

No, a hold is placed on your account but the payment isn't processed till the order is fulfilled by the vendor

The payment was taken out of my card.

Oryx

The contract is not complete till the goods are sent. As long as you're refunded then they don't have to send anything. Because online sales are intially automated, they have to have the clause that its not complete till sent.

If the same wheels had been out of stock in error instead of mispriced the same solution (refund) would apply and noone would be insisting they send wheels they don't have.

ted1

codie wrote: »

The payment was taken out of my card.

A hold was put on it, it's different

Puggy

Saw this offer , I've been looking for a deal on Zondas myself. Thought it was a mistake, and so it turned out:(

When a retailer makes a pricing mistake, they cannot automatically charge customers who ordered a lower price, the new higher price. They also cannot be forced to sell at the lower price.

I had a similar issue with Curries, where an advert in an Irish paper had the decimal point in the wrong place!

cython

ted1 wrote: »

No, a hold is placed on your account but the payment isn't processed till the order is fulfilled by the vendor

I don't buy this, at least not across the board, as Wiggle accept Paypal as a payment means, and they can't put a hold on your card via Paypal. So for orders processed via Paypal, the money has been paid, and is definitely gone from the purchaser's account. Now maybe it's only as far as Wiggle's Paypal account, and maybe one could argue there is only a contract with Paypal, but you don't pay Paypal in that scenario (the vendor, i.e. Wiggle, does), so your contract is with Wiggle, who has received your payment into an account of theirs. Payment processed, simples.

Kavrocks

cython wrote: »

I don't buy this, at least not across the board, as Wiggle accept Paypal as a payment means, and they can't put a hold on your card via Paypal. So for orders processed via Paypal, the money has been paid, and is definitely gone from the purchaser's account.

This isn't the case. You can pay by Paypal and not have the money paid straight out of your account, it can be held until time of dispatch.

buffalo

cython wrote: »

I don't buy this, at least not across the board, as Wiggle accept Paypal as a payment means, and they can't put a hold on your card via Paypal. So for orders processed via Paypal, the money has been paid, and is definitely gone from the purchaser's account. Now maybe it's only as far as Wiggle's Paypal account, and maybe one could argue there is only a contract with Paypal, but you don't pay Paypal in that scenario (the vendor, i.e. Wiggle, does), so your contract is with Wiggle, who has received your payment into an account of theirs. Payment processed, simples.

Read the T&C - payment processed does not indicate a contract, that only occurs after the prices have also been verified and the goods despatched.

stecleary wrote: »

They have themselves well covered

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/h/option/terms_conditions#termsofservice

Our Contract
When you place an order, you will receive an acknowledgement e-mail confirming receipt of your order. This email will only be an acknowledgement and will not constitute acceptance of your order. Wiggle retains the right to accept or reject this offer before processing the order. A contract between us for the purchase of the goods will not be formed until your payment has been approved by us, the prices have been verified, and the order has been processed and dispatched. A second email will be sent confirming these arrangements.

cython

Kavrocks wrote: »

This isn't the case. You can pay by Paypal and not have the money paid straight out of your account, it can be held until time of dispatch.

The fact that the email received from Paypal for this payment is typically indicated as being a receipt (both in subject and content) indicates that the payment has been taken - can't receipt for something not received, after all. And it is not added to my Paypal account to be taken later, at least not visibly so, therefore to the user's purpose, the payment has been taken. I saw this myself with something that took weeks to dispatch.

buffalo wrote: »

Read the T&C - payment processed does not indicate a contract, that only occurs after the prices have also been verified and the goods despatched.

I'm not disputing the issue of the contract/T&Cs, I saw them and fully acknowledge them, but T&Cs are subject to laws as well (statutory rights, etc.) so may not be iron clad - I can't say yea or nay for that, and to be honest I don't really care in this instance. I didn't attempt to buy these wheels or anything so have no vested interest here, but sweeping assertions that potentially ignore a good segment of the affected people don't help either.

pats22b

Got this from them earlier today
"

Hello Pats22

Thank you for your patience.

I am sorry for the inconvenience caused by the error on your recent order *****.

Unfortunately on this occasion the Campagnolo Zonda Clincher Wheel set was listed incorrectly and we have now taken action as immediately as we could to rectify the issue.

The issue that arose was a pricing error for the product, meaning the price that was displayed on site was incorrect.

As a result, regrettably we have cancelled your order for the product before it was despatched and returned any funds that may have been processed.

Therefore we have cancelled the contract you have taken up with us for the wheel set by refunding your payment. I can only apologise for the confusion caused by any email alerts received around this time as your order had not left our warehouse and was awaiting dispatch.

We appreciate that this is a frustrating situation and would like to offer a £10.00 voucher as a gesture of goodwill:

Voucher ID ****** for £10.00.

At this stage if you would prefer an alternative suggested at around the same price then please let me know and I can check with our technical team to see what we can provide.

Once again I am sincerely sorry for the inconvenience caused by this issue, but we hope to help you through the order as swiftly and effectively as possible.

Regards


The Complaints Team


Wiggle Customer Services
"

codie

Thank you for your email regarding order number 539463****

Please bear with my while I pass this to our complaints department to find a prompt & amicable resolution.

If there is anything I can do for you in the meantime, please do not hesitate to let me know, as I will be more than happy to help.

Your patience and co-operation are greatly appreciated.


Regards


Got this mail this morning-we'll wait and see

Weepsie

The sense of misplaced outrage and entitlement here is a little bemusing.

Wiggle from what I can see have done nothing wrong other than make a genuine mistake. Had it been the case that it was one person ordered they may have honoured it, but such is how the web works everyone jumps on it and the retailer barely has time to react.

Their T&C are fairly black and white too. They even cover mispriced goods.

Everyone got their money back, there are more worthy things to get worked up about (I say this as someone who gets wound up at small things sometimes)

codie

Weepsie wrote: »

The sense of misplaced outrage and entitlement here is a little bemusing.

Wiggle from what I can see have done nothing wrong other than make a genuine mistake. Had it been the case that it was one person ordered they may have honoured it, but such is how the web works everyone jumps on it and the retailer barely has time to react.

Their T&C are fairly black and white too. They even cover mispriced goods.

Everyone got their money back, there are more worthy things to get worked up about (I say this as someone who gets wound up at small things sometimes)

But sur its worth a mail or 2 ,nobody really getting worked up at all about the situation.They either tell us again to hump off politely or maybe if they are customer conscience give us a little discount.I myself have spent a lot of €'s in wiggle down the years and would have the gold customer discount.

pats22b

i tend to agree with weepsie - i haven't been on to them looking for anything and think a €10 voucher is a fair return for the inconvenience caused by an honest mistake.

codie

I got a voucher to the value of £10 for my troubles.Need a pair of winter gloves so every bit helps

lgk

AstraMonti wrote: »

That's why companies have insurances, because people eventually fúck up.

Retailers certainly don't insure against losses like that. If they did, prices would increase significantly!

petethedrummer

The lesson here is if you find one of these pricing mistakes, keep it to yourself until the goods are delivered. Someone probably noticed hundreds of Zonda Wheelsets coming out of the warehouse and hit the panic button.

TheBlaaMan

Is this STILL going on.......

Call me foolish, but willfully and knowingly trying to profit in any way from an innocent mistake is dishonest. The level of outrage and misplaced sense of entitlement being shown by those that failed to get their Zondas is a bit sickening...... I guess you have plenty of examples in everyday life to 'look up' to. Way to go guys......

Fian

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

Is this STILL going on.......

Call me foolish, but willfully and knowingly trying to profit in any way from an innocent mistake is dishonest. The level of outrage and misplaced sense of entitlement being shown by those that failed to get their Zondas is a bit sickening...... I guess you have plenty of examples in everyday life to 'look up' to. Way to go guys......

I haven't seen any outrage or misplaced entitlement in this thread.

People went "ooh look this is good value". Then "oh damn they cancelled my order. Is that legal after i paid for it?" Then various people put in views on what the law was, in general terms and in relation to the specific contractual wording. Some people said they would push to get the wheels, others said they wouldn't bother.

When the bargain was first posted and people bought it i don't think it occurred to anyone that it was a mistake. I have seen discounts more than 57% off list price on internet bike shops before, especially around the end of a year. So it is not fair to characterize those who ordered as "willfully and knowingly trying to profit from another's mistake."

People who bought and paid for the wheels have a legitimate legal argument that it is too late for the person who sold them to change their mind after the deal was done.

If you buy a house you don't just say "ah well I will just find another so" if the seller changes their mind and returns your money.

Nobody (that i noticed) said they were outraged or victimised. No-one is calling for pitchforks for wiggle since it became apparent that it was a pricing error on their part. Some are saying "hang on a minute, I bought those wheels, the deal was finished, I own them now, they can't just change their mind after the sale has concluded." They are essentially saying "when you make a deal you have to stick by it, it is too late to back out after the deal is done." Which is a lesson my kids understood before they hit their teens.

The degree to which people can want to find a reason to be "sickened" so as to take a holier than thou approach on the internet can occasionally be mildly nauseating itself.........

codie

petethedrummer wrote: »

The lesson here is if you find one of these pricing mistakes, keep it to yourself until the goods are delivered. Someone probably noticed hundreds of Zonda Wheelsets coming out of the warehouse and hit the panic button.

Think the don!!!don!!!!!DONNNNNNNNN!!!!!!! thread should be closed from now on.Too dodgy posting bargains now.

codie

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

Is this STILL going on.......

Call me foolish, but willfully and knowingly trying to profit in any way from an innocent mistake is dishonest. The level of outrage and misplaced sense of entitlement being shown by those that failed to get their Zondas is a bit sickening...... I guess you have plenty of examples in everyday life to 'look up' to. Way to go guys......

Member in boards a while now and often read threads and peoples opinions and the odd time I am bewildered by peoples responses and how they come to the opinion they have and how things get blown up.Who is outraged?I haven't seen any post that gave a hint of outrage.You make it sound like there is now a witch hunt against Wiggle.
I say lads lets get our lanterns ,torches,pikes and slash hooks out and let us all march to Wiggle.BURN 'EM I SAY, BURN 'EM I TELL YOU

ashleey

codie wrote: »

Member in boards a while now and often read threads and peoples opinions and the odd time I am bewildered by peoples responses and how they come to the opinion they have and how things get blown up.Who is outraged?I haven't seen any post that gave a hint of outrage.You make it sound like there is now a witch hunt against Wiggle.
I say lads lets get our lanterns ,torches,pikes and slash hooks out and let us all march to Wiggle.BURN 'EM I SAY, BURN 'EM I TELL YOU

Only if you have a Platinum discount. A gold one just won't cut it