Landlord wants cash

cob1

maybe he'd take BitCoins instead?

drumswan

runawaybishop wrote: »

What's with branding them cowboys? Have you never dealt with a landlord of a single property who pays all his bills in the local post office?

I dealt with the chaps who came around collecting cash when I was a young fella renting in doss houses in Rathmines. they were all cowboys to a man. Maybe a coincidence, maybe not.

Im older now and expect a professional service from someone with whom I am in a ~15k a year contract with. I dont give a toss where he pays his bills, thats none of my concern. All of my previous three landlords have been reasonably professional, there was never any question of cash payment.

El_Duderino 09

cob1 wrote: »

maybe he'd take BitCoins instead?

BitCoins? Whah are dem? and can you use them at the post office?

Rob Thomas

Every situation is different and there are plenty of reasons, good and bad, why the landlord would look to collect the rent in cash in person.

There is plenty of speculation around motives but the tenant should only really be concerned about their end of the agreement. If they are happy to be payng in cash and it does not negatively affect their own position, then it's a solution which suits everyone.

The only issue which everyone would have to accept is around the receipts and rent book. It's obvious that a rent book stamped with receipts is not going to be quite as strong as an electronic transfer for proving rent payments, when you are dealing with a bank for a mortgage. In marginal cases, it may be the difference between getting it or not. You can have all the back up you think you need, but it's the least common way nowadays to pay rent (cash) and the Irish psyche is always to be suspicious.

With regard to tenancy rights, declaring the money or not, cash or transfer... None of that makes any difference to your rights in the event of a dispute.

Not2Good

usernamegoes wrote: »

I have heard of banks not being too keen on rent books as proof of payment for rent when applying for a mortgage.

Yeah, having regular full monthly rent showing on your statements can help a lot if thinking of going for mortgage soon ….

Mick Murdock

The best landlord I ever had (when I was a student) took cash payment. I think it was €600pm. There is a big difference between someone paying 15K a year and somebody living in a flat and paying 150 quid a week. If it's a significant sum there's no way I'd pay in cash but a bedsit and I don't see the problem.

runawaybishop

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Lol at the idea that there are less potential problems with making a cash handoff than with standing order.

One party is on holidays on rent day.
One party gets stuck in traffic and the other has to wait around.
One party has to work late.
One party can't get all the cash out of an ATM on one day.
One party has bank card lost/stolen.
One party has to take their child/friend/pet goldfish/child's friend's pet goldfish to doctor.
One party forgot.

In each of those circumstances a standing order would go through regardless and takes no communication or planning. Sure a Bank holiday might delay the payment. With 8 bank holidays a year and 30 days per month, a bank holiday is likely to fall on rent day about once every 3.75 Years so your point stands but it is very weak.

There's no reason to assume it's dodgy and if there are receipts then it would seem above board, but it is notmore convenient for either party and could suggest an "old school" Irish LL, which I would be wary of.

All of those things are easy to arrange with the ll/tenant though, arranging stuff with the bank can be trickier. It may not even be easier, but the ll finds it handier and they dictate the payment terms. You don't really get to decide if its convenient for the LL, they decide that themselves.

runawaybishop

drumswan wrote: »

I dealt with the chaps who came around collecting cash when I was a young fella renting in doss houses in Rathmines. they were all cowboys to a man. Maybe a coincidence, maybe not.

Im older now and expect a professional service from someone with whom I am in a ~15k a year contract with. I dont give a toss where he pays his bills, thats none of my concern. All of my previous three landlords have been reasonably professional, there was never any question of cash payment.

So you had a bad experience, fair enough. I've had a good experience with a LL that wouldnt know what a computer was if it hit him in the face. I paid him in cash, got a receipt and he was totally professional, any issues were fixed the next day or within 2 days.

You mightn't give a toss where the LL pays his bills, similarly the LL doesn't need to give a toss if you don't like cash.

Paying in cash isn't the end of the world

drumswan

runawaybishop wrote: »

Paying in cash isn't the end of the world

Never said it was the end of the world, just not something I am interested in doing. Ive better things to be doing than organising my time around someone I am paying large amounts of money for a service. Maybe others value their time less I suppose.

laurenhiggins

Just have a rent book and get receipts

El_Duderino 09

runawaybishop wrote: »

All of those things are easy to arrange with the ll/tenant though, arranging stuff with the bank can be trickier. It may not even be easier, but the ll finds it handier and they dictate the payment terms. You don't really get to decide if its convenient for the LL, they decide that themselves.

The circumstances I outlined above are emergencies or events with short notice. Bank Holidays are known years in advance allowing time to arrange an alternative. Be serious. If you wanted payment before a bank holiday you would put it in the contract and a single phone call once in 3.75 years would tell the tenant to pay the money early. I understand your point. It's valid once every 3.75 years and its really weak.

In the 21st century relying on cash is a sign of a moron who cant use the computer machines, or a very unprofessional landlord or a very professional cowboy. This behaviour will become extinct in the very near future.

kristian12

Whatever happens make sure cash is never handed over without a receipt. We had a landlord who insisted on cash and it was ok for a long time. Then he forgot his receipt book but having a good relationship we weren't worried and said we'd get it the following month. We forgot all about it, this happened twice in 6 yrs.

No problems at all until we came to leave and he said we owed him 2 months rent and demanding it back. We had no proof we'd paid him. He turned up on our new doorstep, my partners job and told our former neighbours we owed him thousands. Foolishly but out of desperation to stop him we paid him the 2 months again.

I am not saying for one minute that all landlords would do this and I'm pretty sure the majority wouldn't but it's worth remembering that it's not a friendship but a business arrangement which can sour quickly once it's no longer beneficial to both parties.

Tigger

hfallada wrote: »

And before any goes on about LLs and their tax evasion. There is tens of thousands of LLs in this country. But you are far more likely to see Doctors and Dentists on Revenues list of tax evaders than LLs.

Revenue list defaulters by occupation
So doctor landlords and dentist landlords are what is show
Landlord isnt an occupation

REXER

gaius c wrote: »

Nothing really wrong with it as such. I pay our rent in cash. Just get receipts.

it's just that 19th century inconvenience of having to go to the bank, withdraw the money, go to another location to hand over the cash. (With the added risk of carrying a large amount of cash monthly)

In this day and age it is unnecessary and quite uncalled for.
It would be just so simple to do a bank transfer, but then the transaction would be visible, documented and trackable to all parties, possibly including revenue commissioners.

REXER

runawaybishop wrote: »

There is a perfect excuse, it suits the landlord to get paid in cash and they dictate the terms of payment. There are plenty of valid reasons to want cash, and plenty not to. Its not the tenants place to dictate though.

Ever heard of voting with your feet???

I know that LLs think they can do as they please at the moment, but the situation will swing back again!

REXER

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The circumstances I outlined above are emergencies or events with short notice. Bank Holidays are known years in advance allowing time to arrange an alternative. Be serious. If you wanted payment before a bank holiday you would put it in the contract and a single phone call once in 3.75 years would tell the tenant to pay the money early. I understand your point. It's valid once every 3.75 years and its really weak.

In the 21st century relying on cash is a sign of a moron who cant use the computer machines, or a very unprofessional landlord or a very professional cowboy. This behaviour will become extinct in the very near future.

I really, really hope so!!!

gaius c

Starscream25 wrote: »

It could mean the landlord isn't registered, in that case look elsewhere.

In the current market, you don't really have a lot of choice.

gaius c

REXER wrote: »

it's just that 19th century inconvenience of having to go to the bank, withdraw the money, go to another location to hand over the cash. (With the added risk of carrying a large amount of cash monthly)

In this day and age it is unnecessary and quite uncalled for.
It would be just so simple to do a bank transfer, but then the transaction would be visible, documented and trackable to all parties, possibly including revenue commissioners.

Basically I agree but the rental market is borked so a lot of compromises have to be made.

stateofflux

I pay cash monthly to my landlord. id prefer a direct debit but he is pretty sound. i have no doubt that a lot of landlords that insist on cash do it to avoid tax.

Mrs OBumble

runawaybishop wrote: »

There are plenty of valid reasons to want cash

Can you name a few?

Frankly, any business transactions need to be auditable, which means not made in cash.

runawaybishop

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Can you name a few?

Frankly, any business transactions need to be auditable, which means not made in cash.

Already mentioned a couple in the thread. You'd think asking for cash was a guaranteed sign of fraud around here.

Lux23

runawaybishop wrote: »

Already mentioned a couple in the thread. You'd think asking for cash was a guaranteed sign of fraud around here.

You gave excuses, not valid reasons. If a landlord was all above board, they should have no problem accepting an electronic transfer. I have been renting for about ten years and I have never been late with my rent, so I would prefer if a landlord would give me the benefit of the doubt and accept a SO.

Also, mentioning that the landlord might be paying his bills in cash? Surely the biggest one is the mortgage and what bank allows you to pay your mortgage in cash?

The_Morrigan

Lux23 wrote: »

You gave excuses, not valid reasons. If a landlord was all above board, they should have no problem accepting an electronic transfer. I have been renting for about ten years and I have never been late with my rent, so I would prefer if a landlord would give me the benefit of the doubt and accept a SO.

Also, mentioning that the landlord might be paying his bills in cash? Surely the biggest one is the mortgage and what bank allows you to pay your mortgage in cash?

All the banks allow you to pay your mortgage in cash.

firestarter51

Lux23 wrote: »

You gave excuses, not valid reasons. If a landlord was all above board, they should have no problem accepting an electronic transfer. I have been renting for about ten years and I have never been late with my rent, so I would prefer if a landlord would give me the benefit of the doubt and accept a SO.

Also, mentioning that the landlord might be paying his bills in cash? Surely the biggest one is the mortgage and what bank allows you to pay your mortgage in cash?

he might not have a mortgage, the money could be going straight into his arse pocket for all we know and he may be declaring it to the revenue and paying it at the end of the year
house i was in and paid cash while living there was left as an inheritance, the previous tenants were getting rent allowance there so he was above board.
lots of assumptions being made here

fella wants cash if tenant is happy crack on and rent the place
if not jog on to a rental agency
simples

Lux23

The_Morrigan wrote: »

All the banks allow you to pay your mortgage in cash.

Do they? Does the money not go into an account though? Surely, there is a electronic proof of the payment and if the landlord were to be audited, the revenue may well ask where the money for the mortgage came from?

The_Morrigan

Lux23 wrote: »

Do they? Does the money not go into an account though? Surely, there is a electronic proof of the payment and if the landlord were to be audited, the revenue may well ask where the money for the mortgage came from?

Yes they do. As long as the payments are made into the mortgage account the bank don't give a fiddlers.

Gordon Minard

Can't see any difficulty with that beyond ensuring to get receipts.

whupdedo

You can say what you want but in this market the landlord calls the shots, I ask for cash and won't take do it by any other means, everything is above board and the tenant knows it before they move in, if they don't like it, tough, go find somewhere else to rent

It's laughable that people here think it's backwards and 19th century to want cash, but in the real world outside of office hours cash is king, it's a landlords market and they can pick and choose and make demands for cash if they want

The reason I ask for cash is its easier for me to pay bills when I want to pay them, not when the direct debit says I have to

runawaybishop

Lux23 wrote: »

You gave excuses, not valid reasons. If a landlord was all above board, they should have no problem accepting an electronic transfer. I have been renting for about ten years and I have never been late with my rent, so I would prefer if a landlord would give me the benefit of the doubt and accept a SO.

Also, mentioning that the landlord might be paying his bills in cash? Surely the biggest one is the mortgage and what bank allows you to pay your mortgage in cash?

All of the banks.

I've had landlords that could barely answer a call on their mobile, never mind understand what an electronic transfer was. You are just assuming that cash = fraud, which is not the case for a lot of older people.

sarkozy

Back to the issue at hand ... (Sorry if I missed this point but ...) OP: is your tenancy registered with the PRTB? You're obviously looking for security and assurance in this arrangement. There's nothing wrong with paying a landlord in cash, however, landlords are obliged by law, enforceable by the PRTB, to issue receipt of payment in the form or a rent book, which you retain possession of and/or acknowledgement of payment in writing (letter, email, text).

If you're uncomfortable with a cash payment arrangement, then your question is whether or not refusing the landlord's preference is a breach of contract or runs the risk of you losing your accommodation. There may or may not be grounds for this, for example citing security concerns withdrawing and holding large amounts of cash.

Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable with cash payment and would instantly assume (if the landlord weren't an old codger) that the landlord is either seeking to evade paying tax or is seeking to avoid rental income being garnished by a bank he/she may be indebted to. Nevertheless, there's nothing objectively wrong in being paid in cash, depending on circumstances. I would also feel unsure how to go, like you, and would hope for an amicable settlement.

If you want to be sure, contact Threshold and/or the PRTB for clear, accurate advice. That's the first thing I would do.