**Spoilers** Series 8, Episode 10 - "Forest of the Night"

ebbsy

Angron wrote: »

To be fair, I don't think the Cybermen have been done quite to death as much as the Daleks in the revived series.

True, they just have not been done great.

tommy2bad

@Angron, fair point, if it had been Daleks I would concider skipping it. I wonder if we will get a 'sick' cyberman?

SimonTemplar

This episode was really poor. The only positives are the visuals (London Forest looked great) and the acting from the regulars. Aside from that, the whole thing seemed very amateurish with major plot holes. So, everyone just forgets about the trees at the end?! What about video footage? What about Nelson's column lying in pieces in Trafalgar Sq or most of London Zoo's animals roaming the streets? The the subplot about the girl's missing sister made no sense at all. How did she suddenly appear in the bush at the end?

I am very forgiving of the craziness of some of Doctor Who's plots (except perhaps the magic golden arrow earlier in the season) but the suspension of disbelieve at least has to be plausible, which I don't believe was the case here. About 15 minutes into the episode, I said to my friend that the set up is great and I hope the payoff doesn't disappoint. Sadly, it disappointed big time. This is the worst episode in the season by a mile, and one of the worst of NuWho.

Next week looks amazing though

CastorTroy

SimonTemplar wrote: »

This episode was really poor. The only positives are the visuals (London Forest looked great) and the acting from the regulars. Aside from that, the whole thing seemed very amateurish with major plot holes. So, everyone just forgets about the trees at the end?! What about video footage? What about Nelson's column lying in pieces in Trafalgar Sq or most of London Zoo's animals roaming the streets? The the subplot about the girl's missing sister made no sense at all. How did she suddenly appear in the bush at the end?

She was playing Ultimate Hide and Seek, until the pixies gave away her hiding place.

Was actually watching the episode today where Rose's dad died and realised how often they use the whole "it'll be like it never happened" or "humans have a great ability to forget"

Un Croissant

I do often think 'God it's weird to think that everyone knows about this stuff' because usually there is a cover up or something. But then I remember 'nope, amnesia powder sprinkles across the globe'

FunLover18

Not a fan of that episode either. Capaldi was goo but the kids were annoying and I also thought they could have done with more extras. It's London for Christ's sake and the only people wandering around were the main characters. Anyway as someone mentioned earlier it was definitely one for the kids and I always enjoy seeing Jenna onscreen so can't complain too much

smacl

Visually appealing, but the story was pretty awful. Also the tardis seems to be a bit too much of an open house in this series, rather than any kind of guarded secret place. If they'd managed a better ending, and not had the wee girl waving her hands around quite so much, it could have been a decent episode. Like Kill the moon though, the ending was pretty desperate.

Production was great, nothing wrong with the acting, but the writing was abysmal.

bnt

Anyone here been to London? Clara, Mr. Pink & the kids start at the Natural History Museum in South Kensington, while the Doctor lands in Trafalgar Square. Over two miles apart on foot, not a trivial walk for a bunch of schoolkids, but they gloss over it. You'd think the BBC would get London right ...

Das Kitty

bnt wrote: »

Anyone here been to London? Clara, Mr. Pink & the kids start at the Natural History Museum in South Kensington, while the Doctor lands in Trafalgar Square. Over two miles apart on foot, not a trivial walk for a bunch of schoolkids, but they gloss over it. You'd think the BBC would get London right ...

2 miles is a big walk now? My 4 year old walks that in a normal day.

I didn't think much of the script this week. A forest calling down a sun flair? Did the Doctor get a knock on the head?

FunLover18

bnt wrote: »

Anyone here been to London? Clara, Mr. Pink & the kids start at the Natural History Museum in South Kensington, while the Doctor lands in Trafalgar Square. Over two miles apart on foot, not a trivial walk for a bunch of schoolkids, but they gloss over it. You'd think the BBC would get London right ...

The lack of any other London citizens walking around, wondering what was going on bothered me more

bnt

Das Kitty wrote: »

2 miles is a big walk now? My 4 year old walks that in a normal day.

Don't forget the bloody great big forest in the way ..!

smacl

FunLover18 wrote: »

The lack of any other London citizens walking around, wondering what was going on bothered me more

Maybe there was a sale on in Top Shop..

flazio

bnt wrote: »

Anyone here been to London? Clara, Mr. Pink & the kids start at the Natural History Museum in South Kensington, while the Doctor lands in Trafalgar Square. Over two miles apart on foot, not a trivial walk for a bunch of schoolkids, but they gloss over it. You'd think the BBC would get London right ...

Well Doctor Who is based in Cardiff these days so... Anyway I didn't think that episode was all that bad, remember Maebh was on medication for mental illness and her lack of medication caused her to act strange. No means a classic but certainly not the weakest of the year.

Antar Bolaeisk

Das Kitty wrote: »

2 miles is a big walk now? My 4 year old walks that in a normal day.

I didn't think much of the script this week. A forest calling down a sun flair? Did the Doctor get a knock on the head?

You possibly did, the trees were protecting the Earth from the sun flare, not causing it

Didn't think it was too bad, just a bit kiddyish.

coffee_cake

Antar Bolaeisk wrote: »

You possibly did, the trees were protecting the Earth from the sun flare, not causing it
/QUOTE]
he hypothesised that the trees were causing it before they found out it was ok

Das Kitty

Antar Bolaeisk wrote: »

You possibly did, the trees were protecting the Earth from the sun flare, not causing it

Didn't think it was too bad, just a bit kiddyish.

Well, yes. That was obvious to even an idiot like me. The Doctor couldn't seem to figure it out though.

Sonics2k

I basically tuned out of that entire episode.

Started off grand with a cool idea, Capaldi getting into the swing of it from the start.
The middle was just scattered and all over and it seems to me that a lot of this series is more about the Doctor not being helpful rather than actually saving the world.

Ending was another silly cop out. Magical fairy dust to give them all amnesia. :rolleyes:

Lastly. Sod Danny bloody Pink. I am so sick of that awful character. "I was a soldier y'know."

Oh stuff it, you cannot compare yourself to the Doctor so stupidly so often, see how much this man has done and still think you're better than him. Sooner Clara is gone the sooner bloody Danny Pink will be gone. Jackass.

FunLover18

Sonics2k wrote: »

Oh stuff it, you cannot compare yourself to the Doctor so stupidly so often, see how much this man has done and still think you're better than him. Sooner Clara is gone the sooner bloody Danny Pink will be gone. Jackass.

But … but, the sooner Clara is gone, the sooner Jenna Coleman is gone



Me likey Jenna

Angron

Good, I can't stand her any more, and would dearly like her to bugger off.

Un Croissant

Angron wrote: »

Good, I can't stand her any more, and would dearly like her to bugger off.

Enough of this heresy!!

The Master

Dull as a dull ditch full of dull dishwater

tommy2bad

Angron wrote: »

Good, I can't stand her any more, and would dearly like her to bugger off.

And this is the first series I'v like her. Clara has developed into an interesting character and Jena Coleman has developed as an actor with it. Back in Smiths day she was eye candy at best, all the interest was in her as the impossible girl rather than from anything she did herself. Mostly she wandered around wide eyes (those eyes, swoon ) and clueless.
This time she is taking charge, making decisions from herself and becoming likable.
Her Linda Ronstadt good looks don't hurt either.

Angron

tommy2bad wrote: »

And this is the first series I'v like her. Clara has developed into an interesting character and Jena Coleman has developed as an actor with it. Back in Smiths day she was eye candy at best, all the interest was in her as the impossible girl rather than from anything she did herself. Mostly she wandered around wide eyes (those eyes, swoon ) and clueless.
This time she is taking charge, making decisions from herself and becoming likable.
Her Linda Ronstadt good looks don't hurt either.

I disagree, I think she's gotten too much focus, with the impossible girl "saving the Doctor throughout time", using her as part of why the Doctor was inspired to do what he does in Listen, and then having her call herself Doctor recently. I'm just tired of it.


And being pretty is completely irrelevant too.

Wibbs

Angron wrote: »

I disagree, I think she's gotten too much focus, with the impossible girl "saving the Doctor throughout time", using her as part of why the Doctor was inspired to do what he does in Listen, and then having her call herself Doctor recently. I'm just tired of it.

I see what you mean alright. The Rose character got a lot of stick for the importance of her role in the show, but Clara has outdone her on that score all over the place. She makes the Bad Wolf look like labrador puppy. The finale might answer some of this in regard to who she is and why she was picked/setup as his companion.

jasonb

I must admit, I'm looking forward to a companion just being a companion, and hopefully the new one won't have too much of a mystery attached to them. It has gotten worse throughout the new run, and now we've gone from The Girl Who Waited to The Impossible Girl. It's getting to the stage that the companion's story/history is more complex than the Doctor's and I'd actually have to re-watch all Clara's episodes, or read up on them online, to remind myself everything that's happened in her convoluted time-line. Obviously it's interesting for the writers and can create good drama, but the spotlight needs to shine back on the Doctor a bit at this stage, I think.

J.

Mr Bloat

I thought this episode was a bit daft, as others have said it started out with great potential but took a nose dive after the half way mark. A lot of people have mentioned about humanity just forgetting about the forest at the end but I don't think that is what the Doctor said about forgetting at all. I have only watched it once but my recollection is that he meant that everyone would forget over time, not the next day. He mentioned that it had happened before and people forgot that too but only because of the passage of time. I seem to remember him saying that we have a great capacity to forget.
Also, I think that the '"fairy dust" at the end was the sprites (or whatever they were) removing the forest across the world, not making everyone forget.

One point my daughter raised at the end was how did the forest grow in the ocean? If 71% of the surface of the planet is water, how was the entire planet covered in greenery?

Edit: you people leave Clara alone. Apart from her being pretty, I think she is a breath of fresh air after that bossy grump Amy and her wet husband.

tommy2bad

I think she is a breath of fresh air after that bossy grump Amy and her wet husband.

Ahhh gggg mmmmmump Don't dis the Ponds. Amy might be my favorite companion. Rose second, Donna and Clara tie and I never warmed to Martha.
It seem to be a point of view thing, some people identify with the companion and want the main arc to be about them and some identify with the doctor, wanting the story to revolve around him. I think the producers get the balance right, we get enough companion story to keep it grounded in our reality and enough Dr to allow the show to intrigue us.
Oh and Astrid deserves a mention, I thought Kylie did well.

pixelburp

I'm somewhat surprised by the flak Clara's getting here, especially as Series 8 has consisted of a very deliberate attempt to put more flesh on her as a character. To the point where she has enjoyed the strongest character arc on the show for a while.

To be honest, I was never that upset about her being more puzzle than person from the beginning, it was an interesting idea and made a refreshing change from the repetitive, domestic notions companions tended to bring through the TARDIS doors Ok, she didn't really have much of a personality beyond being generically 'sarky, chipper, bubbly', but again, I didn't find it innately offensive in of itself. Not every fictional character needs emotional baggage to make them work.

What has been noteworthy has been how Series 8 decided to allow Clara to grow over time as a result of the travels with the Doctor. 'Flatline' felt like a culmination of this, where Clara took control of the situation, albeit with a little help via radio from the Doctor, and put her stamp on things. In many respects it's the most subtle, least melodramatic arc the show has done since it came back on air. No Bad Wolf, no Torchwood, no Crack in the Wall, just a companion becoming ... something, the finale hinting that it may be something malevolent within her personality rather than some sci-fi hocus pocus. Ok, it's a fair point that the reason we're tuning in is for the Doctor, not the companion, but it's a far cry from 'omg I love the Doctor so much' and that's commendable.

As to the episode? As usual I'm late to the party and can't really add much to the consensus: this was a very silly, very weak episode and I guess broke the run of broadly enjoyable episodes this series had been supplying. Ah well, I guess I jinxed things by mentioning how good Series 8 had been up to this point!

The story was pure '30 seconds in the elevator' material, the kind of guff that sounds better as a concept than as a robust story. The resolution was utterly stupid too, reminding me somewhat of 'The Poison Sky', another story that figured burning the atmosphere would have no consequences for us down on the ground.

Plus, while not a defence as such, it's worth pointing out that the script was written by an author of children's fiction - it really showed. It was an infantile episode, and not just because of the child actors; if anything, their idiotic banter was kinda fun. Everything else around them however was just poor. Methinks Frank Cottrell Boyce won't be back for Series 9

Doctor DooM

My problem with Clara at this point has nothing to do with her development, which has been commendable and at some points very enjoyable.

It's that I'm having a problem with what it's all meant to mean. One episode she hates the Doctor, next she loves him, she doesn't like lying, she's a lier, she tells the Doctor off for not helping, she wants a load of children to die because they'd be sad otherwise.

I understand and appreciate that the character is supposed to be growing, and change, but it's not like a progression, it's scattershot and it's beginning to grate.

As a companion in general outside of this weirdness I actually think he's great, no swooning over the Doctor, no 500 comebacks like Rose, sometimes when the Doctor says "stay in the Tardis" she just says ok because it's the sensible thing to do, and generally she seems like a really nice character. I also rather enjoyed the early "puzzle" Clara. But the last few episodes I don't know how the show wants me to feel about her at all.

Angron

Doctor DooM wrote: »

My problem with Clara at this point has nothing to do with her development, which has been commendable and at some points very enjoyable.

It's that I'm having a problem with what it's all meant to mean. One episode she hates the Doctor, next she loves him, she doesn't like lying, she's a lier, she tells the Doctor off for not helping, she wants a load of children to die because they'd be sad otherwise.

I understand and appreciate that the character is supposed to be growing, and change, but it's not like a progression, it's scattershot and it's beginning to grate.

As a companion in general outside of this weirdness I actually think he's great, no swooning over the Doctor, no 500 comebacks like Rose, sometimes when the Doctor says "stay in the Tardis" she just says ok because it's the sensible thing to do, and generally she seems like a really nice character. I also rather enjoyed the early "puzzle" Clara. But the last few episodes I don't know how the show wants me to feel about her at all.

That really confused me actually. Danny clearly had no problem with her going on adventures with the Doc, he was relatively supportive of it iirc and acknowledged that Clara and the Doctor's adventures weren't over. So why did she bother lying about not traveling with the Doctor in the first place? When he found out, he wasn't annoyed that she traveled, just that she lied.