El Clasico Match Thread 5pm 25/10/'14 Sky.

The Golden Miller

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

Is the whole point of football not to score goals ? General play means feck all if the ball isn't put in the back of the net, what does general play even mean, like if he puts the ball in the net twice and he does nothing all game, it means much the same as putting the ball in the net twice and coming close a few times and making a few decent passes

You put Maradona in a mid-table club and they win the league. You put in a guy who is only prolific at scoring goals and the team stays around that position. What most of the greats have offered us in the past is unparalleled vision, creativity, the ability to make the whole team play, get players playing well off them. You get a prolific goal scorer but the rest of the team doesn't function, well you aren't going anywhere. You get guys like Maradona or Cruyff playing in these teams, and regardless if they score or not, they will run the show and the goals will come naturally for the team. Because they had real genius and craft. That's why I ask the question. Ronaldo has never shown he possess that quality

Ulysses Gaze

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Take away Ronaldo's goals here for a moment. Name me one game where he's been brilliant in general play, just one. And I don't mean games where he's scored 4 or 5 goals, and was considered brilliant because of the goals alone. Just give me one game wheres his general play (excluding goals) has come anywhere close to a Maradona, Cruyff, Platini, Zidane or even Messi level. I genuinely couldn't name one to be honest

Take away Pele's goals and when did he dictate a game?

Billy86

The hatred in here is just bbeeeaaauuuttttiiifffuuuullll.

@mods, are 20 minute youtube videos of games that happened a few years ago also off limits, re. copyright?

Timmyctc

Golden Miller. I get that you have an agenda, and you nearly have a point. But the fact of the matter is, you're trying to suggest the best player in the world isn't all he's cracked up to be, and to be perfectly honestly, that's utterly retarded.

Billy86

The Golden Miller wrote: »

You put Maradona in a mid-table club and they win the league. You put in a guy who is only prolific at scoring goals and the team stays around that position. What most of the greats have offered us in the past is unparalleled vision, creativity, the ability to make the whole team play, get players playing well off them. You get a prolific goal scorer but the rest of the team doesn't function, well you aren't going anywhere. You get guys like Maradona or Cruyff playing in these teams, and regardless if they score or not, they will run the show and the goals will come naturally for the team. Because they had real genius and craft. That's why I ask the question. Ronaldo has never shown he possess that quality

What obscure midtable club did Cruyff elevate to greatness again?

dreamers75

Crackin match.


Love how the idiots pick out the players as if was their fault.

Ancelloti 1 Luis 0


he had no clue how to deal with the Real midfield and lost the game.

Optimalprimerib

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Lads surely someone could have given one match by this stage?

There are none. And as much as you would like to shove it in his face, your point is moot. That makes him the most dangerous type of player. He could have a terrible game and still score the winning goal from nothing.

As romantic as it might sound, general play does not win games, goals do. If a player has an average of 30+ goals a season, id want him on my team, no matter what his general play is like.

Marco Van Basten and Gerd Muller.

Two other fancy dan types who would prance around, scoring tons and tons of goals...but never ones for rolling up the sleeves and running the game.

Now scoring loads and loads of goals might be grand in World Cups and European Championships, winning leagues and European Cups and all that. But I wouldn't fancy either on a wet night in Bray.

NIMAN

Sometimes the fat Ronaldo did nothing but score goals, and he was priceless.

In fact, wasn't there a game for Madrid when the keeper Canizares covered more gorund than him!

For me, players who can score a lot of goals are few and far between in world football, and they can win games and trophies for teams. Ronaldo is one of these.

Andersonisgod

Ronaldo's sheer goal output is remarkable, I don't think anyone can question that he is the best goalscorer in the world.

However the argument about whether he does enough in general play is a fair one. Perhaps if Messi did not exist then nobody would bring up this particular argument but because Messi does exist, because his goal record is also phenomenal and yet he still manages to contribute so much more in general play it does make it a valid argument if you are judging Ronaldo by the highest standard possible, that standard is Messi.

Ulysses Gaze

Billy86 wrote: »

What obscure midtable club did Cruyff elevate to greatness again?

You could make an argument for Ajax and what they achieved in the 1970's in Europe.

They went from an amateur set-up to professional to a hat-trick of European Cups during his first stint playing there.

Too Tough To Die

NIMAN wrote: »

Sometimes the fat Ronaldo did nothing but score goals, and he was priceless.

In fact, wasn't there a game for Madrid when the keeper Canizares covered more gorund than him!

For me, players who can score a lot of goals are few and far between in world football, and they can win games and trophies for teams. Ronaldo is one of these.

Yeah but even still, that Ronaldo was considered a shadow of the slim fat Ronaldo.

Rayne Wooney

What it is is changing the criteria just to portray Ronaldo in a negative light, he's being compared to a few playmaker's ffs and the criteria apparently great performances excluding goals which is obviously going to be the players who had a system set up for them to dictate the game

Like comparing Usain Bolt to a 10k runner

Ronaldo is and has been the best player in the world for coming up to 2 years now

MD1990

There was nothing said when Ronaldo was playing LW & Messi was a Centre Forward. Messi is still playing very well but his finishing has gone back.

Too Tough To Die

It's disingenuous to call Ronaldo a LW or Messi a centre forward.

Timmyctc

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

It's disingenuous to call Ronaldo a LW or Messi a centre forward.

Its also disingenuous to suggest Ronaldo isn't the best player in the world. But there ye have it.

K4t

Isco is the most comfortable player in possession of a football that I've seen apart from Messi at his peak. Technically I think he was the best player on the pitch last night.

Billy86

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

You could make an argument for Ajax and what they achieved in the 1970's in Europe.

They went from an amateur set-up to professional to a hat-trick of European Cups during his first stint playing there.

Nah, that team had one of the best defenders of all time in Ruud Krol, and some of the best of their generation in Vasovic, Suurbier and Hulshoff. They also had arguably one of the best midfielders of all time in Johan Neeskens and Haan who was also brilliant. And then some of the top attacking players of their time in Rep, Keizer and Swart. Cruyff was the star of the team but there was a revolution in Dutch football occurring at the time, as well as Rinus Michel's revolutionising the game (and the club).

NIMAN

K4t wrote: »

Isco is the most comfortable player in possession of a football that I've seen apart from Messi at his peak. Technically I think he was the best player on the pitch last night.

Yet been a bit part player for Madrid, and only getting a run mainly due to Bale being out.

I think an enormous talent for many years to come for Madrid and Spain.

Billy86

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

What it is is changing the criteria just to portray Ronaldo in a negative light, he's being compared to a few playmaker's ffs and the criteria apparently great performances excluding goals which is obviously going to be the players who had a system set up for them to dictate the game

Like comparing Usain Bolt to a 10k runner

Ronaldo is and has been the best player in the world for coming up to 2 years now

The sheer desperation of the ABRs (Anything But Ronaldos) trying to label him as "scores goals, does nothing else". :pac:

They should slap his game last season against Sociedad into youtube, and even try to ignore the hat trick he scored that day while watching the rest of the game. But sure he scored a hat trick so they'll probably try to write that off as an invalid game because of it!

Billy86

dreamers75 wrote: »

Crackin match.


Love how the idiots pick out the players as if was their fault.

Ancelloti 1 Luis 0


he had no clue how to deal with the Real midfield and lost the game.

I'll be interested to see happens with them in the near future with Xavi getting old. I don't think he always got enough credit for their success over the last several years, and he is simply the best in the history of the game at what he does - that's not exactly easy to replace. Also Iniesta is struggling a bit and in his 30s so if that proves to be a long term issue it will be interesting to see what happens in terms of their midfield. The front three will alleviate a tonne of pressure and I am sure Barca will handle the situation better, but look at what happened when Roy Keane got older and Scholes ran into vision problems at Man Utd, or at Chelsea when Makelele left and Essien began to break down. When a team successfully leans on an incredible midfield for an extended period of time, it can be quite a tricky thing to replace.

I wouldn't worry too much about Enrique, it was his first match of this magnitude so understandable he might have had difficulty preparing for it properly compared to Ancelptti who has managed God knows how many games of this size.

Andersonisgod

NIMAN wrote: »

Yet been a bit part player for Madrid, and only getting a run mainly due to Bale being out.

I think an enormous talent for many years to come for Madrid and Spain.

Given that he apparently supported Barcelona, an absolute travesty on the boards part that he ended up at Madrid with the reason seemingly being "we have Sergi Roberto", almost as disgraceful as Thiago Alcantara being allowed to leave.

Talib Fiasco

If City don't buy Reus in the next year I fully expect a bid be made for Isco again.

Turtwig

K4t wrote: »

Isco is the most comfortable player in possession of a football that I've seen apart from Messi at his peak. Technically I think he was the best player on the pitch last night.

What is it about Carlo and getting player's to blossom?

Still think the best player in possession I've ever seen was Iniesta at his peak. He had better close control than Messi.

Isco has been brilliant of late. Regarding Barca's midfield. They're in big trouble. No replacements for Iniesta or Xavi. Alcantra and Cesc are gone. That seems like the stupidest transfer decisions in recent memory.

Rafinha and Roberto have a long way to improve.

Talib Fiasco

In fairness Isco was incredible at Malaga and has only been given his chance lately...Carlo didn't have much bearing besides giving him a chance. Isco always had frightening ability

Turtwig

I'd actually forgotten about Malaga.

Epic brain fail.

Andersonisgod

Turtwig wrote: »

What is it about Carlo and getting player's to blossom?

Still think the best player in possession I've ever seen was Iniesta at his peak. He had better close control than Messi.

Isco has been brilliant of late. Regarding Barca's midfield. They're in big trouble. No replacements for Iniesta or Xavi. Alcantra and Cesc are gone. That seems like the stupidest transfer decisions in recent memory.

Rafinha and Roberto have a long way to improve.

I'm not so concerned about replacing players. Rafinha, while different to the other midfielders, is a sublime talent. There'll always be wonderful prospects coming through the club, especially midfielders, Sergi Samper and Denis Suarez are two can't miss talents while Kaptoum is another with a very bright future.

Talib Fiasco

Denis Suarez has great potential. Will never understand why he was left go from City

K4t

Turtwig wrote: »

Regarding Barca's midfield. They're in big trouble. No replacements for Iniesta or Xavi. Alcantra and Cesc are gone. That seems like the stupidest transfer decisions in recent memory.

Rakitic should have started the Classico. Him and Cesc would have made a formidable midfield partnership in fact, with Busquets sitting in behind.

Corholio

'Oh Real beat Barca? but....but.....but Messi still passes the ball more around the centre of the pitch'

Yawn.

OnTheCouch

The Golden Miller wrote: »

You put Maradona in a mid-table club and they win the league. You put in a guy who is only prolific at scoring goals and the team stays around that position. What most of the greats have offered us in the past is unparalleled vision, creativity, the ability to make the whole team play, get players playing well off them. You get a prolific goal scorer but the rest of the team doesn't function, well you aren't going anywhere. You get guys like Maradona or Cruyff playing in these teams, and regardless if they score or not, they will run the show and the goals will come naturally for the team. Because they had real genius and craft. That's why I ask the question. Ronaldo has never shown he possess that quality

Golden Miller, maybe Ronaldo is not as good a player as Maradona or Cruyff. But that is hardly a slight on him.

On the other hand, especially when Messi's level has dipped slightly the last couple of years, it's treading water to claim that the Portuguese is not the best player in the world at the moment, even taking into account his slightly below par game yesterday.

Yes, you could certainly argue he isn't by far and away the best player and is probably on top by dint of his exceptional goalscoring rather than his general play, which would I suppose support your argument to some degree, but I and I'm sure most football fans would fully expect him to win the Ballon D'Or again in January.

lordgoat

Another amazing performance by the king Ronaldo. He's jus soooo good. Goals, passes tackles, headers, passes, goals he can do it all. In fact I think even if he played blindfloded he'd still be the best player on the pitch.

What a guy? Reminds me of this fella.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXYfnWRp1Q0


Happy to provide some balance in here. No need for thanks.

klose

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

Denis Suarez has great potential. Will never understand why he was left go from City

Sevilla have the option to buy the end of next season when his two year loan finishes, i imagine they will.

Fudge You

Turtwig wrote: »

Since Carlo took charge Benzema and Modric have been impeccable.

How is Modric not getting the plaudits he deserves???

Best player on the pitch time and time again for Madrid, but rarely does anyone notice.
I love watching Kross and Modric this season. A joy to watch!