2nd rate colleges in Ireland?

conorh91

questionmark? wrote: »

Got a 1.1

Why are people referring to firsts as 1.1?

There is no such thing as a 1.2

It goes 1; 2.1; 2.2.

Wompa1

Celly Smunt wrote: »

Also another argument for IT's,the old boys club is far more diminished.Those lecturing tend to be from within the industry they're teaching with relevant experience opposed to purely academic lecturers.

In the IT, I attended. Our lecturers were just as bad as University lecturers. They would attend training courses during the summer and then teach us what they learned.. They were by no means experts, since they did the course in a matter of weeks and then tried to regurgitate what they had been told. We had an assignment, we all failed. When we went to the lecturer to ask him to show us how to do it, he couldn't either. He ended up scrapping the assignment and giving us all another one because he was found out. What he taught us didn't work.....

But at the same time, there were part time Masters courses run in the evenings. As the hours were made to suit people who were working, the hours also suited people who wanted to lecture and were also working. So some of the guys working by day in the actual Industry ended up teaching...Much, Much more valuable.

My GF works for a University in America. They have a requirement that the lecturers be active in their area of study and NOT just publishing papers that could be easily refuted if somebody bothered to scrutinize the research.

The whole thing is a sh1t show. A lot of people who go to college or University and get their degrees get pretty defensive when you call out how crap they are. Because they hold onto it being a big achievement in their lives. Also for some reason people take pride in the fact that they attended a certain campus...it's all like an old boys CLUB.

Wompa1

Roquentin wrote: »

they just throw in random modules to make up the credits......when you leave uni you will still have to be trained up by the employer despite a four year course.....

WINNER, WINNER!

A guy I worked with in the US, I think said it best.

All a degree proves, is that you can be trained.

I attended a graduation ceremony a couple of weeks ago, they instructed the graduates to move their tassels from one side to the other to signify them moving from an Academic to a Professional...

I don't get that. It's like people who get their degree and start referring to themselves as an Engineer. Yeahhhh Whatever....

Roquentin

Wompa1 wrote: »

In the IT, I attended. Our lecturers were just as bad as University lecturers. They would attend training courses during the summer and then teach us what they learned.. They were by no means experts, since they did the course in a matter of weeks and then tried to regurgitate what they had been told. We had an assignment, we all failed. When we went to the lecturer to ask him to show us how to do it, he couldn't either. He ended up scrapping the assignment and giving us all another one because he was found out. What he taught us didn't work.....

But at the same time, there were part time Masters courses run in the evenings. As the hours were made to suit people who were working, the hours also suited people who wanted to lecture and were also working. So some of the guys working by day in the actual Industry ended up teaching...Much, Much more valuable.

My GF works for a University in America. They have a requirement that the lecturers be active in their area of study and NOT just publishing papers that could be easily refuted if somebody bothered to scrutinize the research.

The whole thing is a sh1t show. A lot of people who go to college or University and get their degrees get pretty defensive when you call out how crap they are. Because they hold onto it being a big achievement in their lives. Also for some reason people take pride in the fact that they attended a certain campus...it's all like an old boys CLUB.

i totally agree. a lot of people going to college just to say they went....

looking back college was a bit of a piss take. they were trying to pass us regardless.....id do an assignment the day before it was due and get 60%

shuyin1

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

I would hire A all else being equal. In general, those going to university rather than IT are more likely to be a higher standard of student in the first place, and more likely to have gone through a higher standard of 3rd level course. There are plenty exceptions of course. Excellent recruits from IT. And low grade recruits from universities. But you go with the more likely bet, not the exceptions.

That's the problem I was trying to highlight, perceived excellence.

Wompa1 wrote: »

Personally, I'd hire the one who performs best in the interview....

If you allow the type of third level institute they went to, drive your decision on who to hire. You're probably not very good when it comes to hiring.

This is more of a true reflection when it comes to post qualification. I know I was very specific with accountancy but as a professional qualification the vast majority undergo both technical/practical training in the same environment, what college you went to means little.

Roger Hassenforder

questionmark? wrote: »

Thats the funniest post I've seen here in a while!!

I did very well in the leaving but choose to go to an IT. Got a 1.1, work in the industry I want as do the vast majority of my classmates and earn more than enough so your bull**** post is....well bull****!

thanks & bully for you!!

notwithstanding your "1.1", I'm only recounting my experience, so while in your opinion it might be bullshit, its my opinion.
That's the thing about you opinions you see.


Anyway, I'm off to see how the chaps I voted for are doing in the Seanad...

Wompa1

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Anyway, I'm off to see how the chaps I voted for are doing in the Seanad...

The former lecturers and teachers? :pac:

SaveOurLyric

shuyin1 wrote: »

That's the problem I was trying to highlight, perceived excellence.

It is not a problem though if the perception is correct.
You seem to be of the view that it is not?

Whether the perception is correct or not, is debatable though.

Wompa1

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

It is not a problem though if the perception is correct.
You seem to be of the view that it is not?

Whether the perception is correct or not, is debatable though.

Of course, it's not correct. Some of the greatest minds in the history of the world didn't even attend an IT or University.

Perception based just on paper of where somebody went is wrong....not even up for debate, IMO.

Roger Hassenforder

Wompa1 wrote: »

The former lecturers and teachers? :pac:

All the teachers are in the Dail!

conorh91

Wompa1 wrote: »

Some of the greatest minds in the history of the world didn't even attend an IT or University.

Neither did some of the most stupid.

The academically gifted who didn't complete degrees in further education, like Einstein and Bill Gates, are distinctly in the minority. This idea that University doesn't matter is a cop-out.

billyhead

I decided to study part time for my degree and post grad and work full time which I think is the best choice for anyone planning to go to college. You gain valuable experience while also getting the same qualifications instead of wasting 4 years on the piss and only attending lectures for 2-3 hours a day. Waste of money and time if you ask me. Now it does take a lo of commitment and time out of you social life etc but its the best route to go.

HIB

mackg wrote: »

http://courses.cit.ie/index.cfm/page/course/courseId/861

http://courses.cit.ie/index.cfm/page/course/courseId/859

http://courses.cit.ie/index.cfm/page/course/courseId/857

The outcomes look similiar but I imagine the practical elements of the courses and the different types of placement required would stop a single programme being run.

Saying that, I couldn't say for definite that these graduates are the ones struggling to find work, which is definitely what they are geared towards with the practical and placement elements.

I would wonder about their job prospects tbh. Just guessing as I don't own a bar myself, but if I did and I was looking for a bar manager, I imagine I'd be looking for someone with a good few years experience as a bar worker, plus supervisory experience, and in reality they'd probably have to be at least 25-30 years old. The idea of handing the reins to a 21 year old graduate wouldn't appeal to me.

Paulownia

Wompa1 wrote: »

Of course, it's not correct. Some of the greatest minds in the history of the world didn't even attend an IT or University.

Perception based just on paper of where somebody went is wrong....not even up for debate, IMO.

Well it is all right if you are one of the greatest minds in history, you will come to the top anyway but for the rest of us, we need to slog at it, unless you want to take the risk!

lanos

Celly Smunt wrote: »

I must get onto my manager to strip me of my six figure salary so...


(it feels good to say that,SIX figure salary,who thought somebody from an IT could get that from a large multinational without having their CV thrown in the bin.)

6 figure income
And a username like celly smunt
I'm more than a bit sceptical

questionmark?

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

thanks & bully for you!!

notwithstanding your "1.1", I'm only recounting my experience, so while in your opinion it might be bullshit, its my opinion.
That's the thing about you opinions you see. V


Anyway, I'm off to see how the chaps I voted for are doing in the Seanad...

Your right, its an opinion, doesnt mean it has a place in reality!

As for your pride in voting in the Seanad, congrats!!!!! I'd rather not be a part of that anti-democratic second chance failed politicians rubbish. Enjoy!

Roquentin

lanos wrote: »

6 figure income
And a username like celly smunt
I'm more than a bit sceptical

we all have 6 figure incomes on here......sure im a nobel laureate as well

Butterface

I don't get the snobbery between ITs and Universities. Many of my brightest friends got degrees from ITs in science disciplines, engineering and comp science and now all have great careers. Then there are my buddies who studied Arts or commerce and are stuck in retail jobs contemplating what Masters to apply for that will actually point them towards a career.

I studied in an Irish IT, a top UK university and now doing a postgrad in one of our NUIs. The IT degree was very structured, but sometimes in a suffocating way. It felt like I was still in secondary school sometimes, but yet I still felt compelled to keep up with my studying. My UK degree had the bare minimum contact hours and the lectures were pointless anyway because it was all self-directed learning. I could have saved myself £10,000 by just studying this **** myself. The postgrad is intense so far but there is also a lot of regurgitating from the lecturers.. a few times now the some of the lecturers will get lost in the middle of their notes and mention that they are reading from lectures drafted by other members of staff. Most of the notes are from a text book. I spend most of my time wondering what these people are actually contributing to my education since they are not the source of the material they are spouting.

Heisenberg88

Its all about attitude and showing passion for the job. It doesn't matter whether you went to University or an Institute of Technology. They all only teach you about 10% of what is really needed in the work place.

I went to an Institute of technology because it was within bus difference of where I lived and didn't want to put any financial strain on the parents.

I graduated in 2011 and had no problem finding work with a 2.1. I got hired in one of the biggest I.T companies in Ireland with two others as graduates and guess what, they came from Institute of technologies as well. There were about 50 going for the graduate roles.

Heisenberg88

Heisenberg88 wrote: »

Its all about attitude and showing passion for the job. It doesn't matter whether you went to University or an Institute of Technology. They all only teach you about 10% of what is really needed in the work place.

I went to an Institute of technology because it was within bus difference of where I lived and didn't want to put any financial strain on the parents.

I graduated in 2011 and had no problem finding work with a 2.1. I got hired in one of the biggest I.T companies in Ireland with two others as graduates and guess what, they came from Institute of technologies as well. There were about 50 going for the graduate roles.

I mean 50 interviewed

DaveDaRave

i got a 1st class honours from a 2nd rate college.

does this mean i got a 2.1

lanos

Roquentin wrote: »

we all have 6 figure incomes on here......sure im a nobel laureate as well

ha, I had the impression most people on AH were unemployed.
that accounted for all the free time to write thousands of posts on every
topic under the sun.

Roquentin

lanos wrote: »

ha, I had the impression most people on AH were unemployed.
that accounted for all the free time to write thousands of posts on every
topic under the sun.

Dostoevsky once said: 2+2=5 if you like it that way...

Tarzana2

Did science in TCD. Never felt superior, I have to say. But I saw some papers from some DCU science course finals (not sure which one, but it was related to my specialisation) and was really surprised at how much easier they were than ours!

Roquentin

heres my two cents: if you were smart you would pick the easiest course from the colleges doing it......at the end of the day you will be hired as a graduate on how you come across as a person.

So lets say you wanted to do science. look at the colleges doing it and see which one is the easiest or the most beneficial to you with regards finance and so on.

two graduates going for a job: one with a degree from trinity and another from an it and both have a 2.1.......it will not come down to the college merit. It will come down to the personality of the individual. Another poster said colleges only teach you about 10% and i would agree with that logic for most courses. For most courses you are learning on the job

Roger Hassenforder

questionmark? wrote: »

Your right, its an opinion, doesnt mean it has a place in reality!

As for your pride in voting in the Seanad, congrats!!!!! I'd rather not be a part of that anti-democratic second chance failed politicians rubbish. Enjoy!

It's "You're right". NUI grads know the difference...

did they not learn you so good what an opinion is in your course?

I jest...

Beaner1

Tarzana2 wrote: »

Did science in TCD. Never felt superior, I have to say. But I saw some papers from some DCU science course finals (not sure which one, but it was related to my specialisation) and was really surprised at how much easier they were than ours!

You should feel superior. Your grsde was held to a much higher standard. Most employers realise this and dont rank you the same as some 220 pointer that was gifted a 2.1 from Althone IT

DEFTLEFTHAND

Tourism in Tipp/Limerick IT.

Outkast_IRE

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Why wouldnt they ? If they've reached the level they've earned the same qualification.

It is my firm belief that an essential part of any course is learning to balance the workload across all modules/subjects, this is especially true in higher intensity courses such as engineering where you can have in excess of 24 hours + of classes each week and ongoing projects etc.

To me if there are no extenuating circumstances then the constant need to repeat modules means there is an issue with the persons ability to manage the workload. That to me is a core skill they are failing at and it is certainly a skill most employers take extremely seriously.

Frank Lee Midere

Beaner1 wrote: »

You should feel superior. Your grsde was held to a much higher standard. Most employers realise this and dont rank you the same as some 220 pointer that was gifted a 2.1 from Althone IT

Most employers don't care. Get some apps on the App Store.

Frank Lee Midere

conorh91 wrote: »

Neither did some of the most stupid.

The academically gifted who didn't complete degrees in further education, like Einstein and Bill Gates, are distinctly in the minority. This idea that University doesn't matter is a cop-out.

Einstein had a physics degree. He was working towards a PHD while in the patent office.

Frank Lee Midere

As someone educated in the UK at graduate level who has been hiring people recently at junior to senior level in Ireland let me say neither I nor my employer care about your university. We care about your subsequent experience.


If you read the OP the link says nothing about trinity vs the rest. This photo upload guy is hiring in Ireland from across Europe. He can't possibly know anything about their universities. IT is not a parochial enterprise.

He's probably being cheap too. I have no problem with Irish engineers. But all I hired had experience.

Frank Lee Midere

Beaner1 wrote: »

You should feel superior. Your grsde was held to a much higher standard. Most employers realise this and dont rank you the same as some 220 pointer that was gifted a 2.1 from Althone IT

Not as well written as some might expect.

Heisenberg88

Beaner1 wrote: »

You should feel superior. Your grsde was held to a much higher standard. Most employers realise this and dont rank you the same as some 220 pointer that was gifted a 2.1 from Althone IT

Couldn't be more wrong. College teaches you 10% of what is needed in the workplace.
It all depends on personality in the interview.

Betty Bloggs

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

It's "You're right". NUI grads know the difference...

did they not learn you so good what an opinion is in your course?

I jest...

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

au contraire, the BSc first in an NUI, then an MSc in an IT
Your losing this...

Indeed......

lanos

Heisenberg88 wrote: »

Couldn't be more wrong. College teaches you 10% of what is needed in the workplace.
It all depends on personality in the interview.

10% really ???
Did you pick that figure out of your arse
I would suggest that WHAT you learn in college is kinda irrelevant.
What matters is that you learn important skills such as PBL, teamwork/collaboration, working to deadlines, reports etc

Please stop suggesting percentages with such conviction WITHOUT any substance whatsoever.

Heisenberg88

lanos wrote: »

10% really ???
Did you pick that figure out of your arse
I would suggest that WHAT you learn in college is kinda irrelevant.
What matters is that you learn important skills such as PBL, teamwork/collaboration, working to deadlines, reports etc

Please stop suggesting percentages with such conviction WITHOUT any substance whatsoever.

I know from experience. Three years in the I.T sector working as a programmer. I had to self learn everything. College thought me nothing really. Waste of four years.

I was better off getting proper I.T certs by Microsoft, Java etc than wasting four years in college. Most people in I.T agree the same.

Roger Hassenforder

Betty Bloggs wrote: »

Indeed......

chapeau!

Roquentin

Mr.S wrote: »

A bit blunt - but quite true.

Still, a degree is better then having no degree. A lot of Irish colleges seem to focus on theory and written elements rather then practical and ties with industry, while our continental equivalents push these.

My undergrad course could 100% be done in about 2 years (having 11 hour weeks was fun in first year but....), and we had a few modules that felt like they just included them to make up the credits.

But still, without my degree I know I wouldn't have gotten the jobs i've done. I've always had the mentality that a degree will help you get the interview, but your personality and experience will get you the job.

i was thinking this about my course as well.