Black tie wedding or no??

CaraMay

Larry Wildman wrote: »

There a selfishness and meanness reflected in this thread which shocks me to be honest.

You'd swear that being asked to wear "blacktie" is akin to being sent down the mines.

Going to a wedding is about celebrating with the couple (who will generally be either friends or family).

If your first thought is about the hassle or the cost, you probably shouldn't go.

It's quite obvious that your posts are intended to 'stir it up a bit'...

I think it's selfishness and meanness to expect people to spend a fortune on your celebration.

Larry Wildman

CaraMay wrote: »

It's quite obvious that your posts are intended to 'stir it up a bit'...

I think it's meanness to expect people to spend a fortune on your celebration.

How so?

Going to weddings costs money...that's life.

If someone's a scrooge who curses the sight of a wedding invite, they just shouldn't go.

amdublin

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Of course it does! Whichever way you cut it, it'll cost. Outfits, transport, drinks money, gifts. You can't go to a wedding, and it not cost SOMETHING.

Like Larry says - If cost is a factor, then decline the invitation gracefully, and don't go!

But that is just it. If there wasn't all that brouha about weddings they wouldn't cost as much.

Think of Miranda is sex and the city - married in the open air and then back to a casual bar for food and drinks.
Looked great to me.

SameDiff

Larry Wildman wrote: »

I have six close friends

I have 104 friends.

razorblunt

Did someone register with the username Ihateblackties just for this thread?

I'm neither for or against I'm more about respecting the couples choice, saying that if I were to arrange one I'd try and get a special discounted rent in a tux rental shop to ease the burden on guests, I also wouldn't be too strict on appropriate dresses for women for such an event either.

Lingua Franca

amdublin wrote: »

But that is just it. If there wasn't all that brouha about weddings they wouldn't cost as much.

Until fairly recently people got married in a smart outfit with immediate family and close friends at the ceremony, then back to the family home for drinks and sandwiches. All of the emphasis was on family and community, not how much you could provide and recieve. This modern fashion for increasingly elaborately staged weddings is pretentious and crass, imo. Not to mention an absolutely appalling waste of money that anyone involved can rarely afford. The typical Irish wedding, with it's overlong day and incredible expenses, already churns my stomach, never mind one with pretentions.

As you can probably guess I don't go to many weddings anymore :P but a friend of a friend recently had the most beautiful wedding in the garden of his bride's parents. Hay bales for seating, kegs and wine in the shed as the free bar, the party went on all weekend and everyone seemed to love it.

Stavro Mueller

It's not just the cost that's the issue though, is it? A guy near where I live had a black tie wedding and I happen to know some of the neighbours who got invites. Normally people wouldn't go on about wedding invitations really but this one raised some hackles because of the extra hassle and expense involved. Not to mention comments about him having notions and getting carried away with things. Watching too many episodes of Downton Abbey, Merchant Ivory films etc. You can call it Irish begrudgery if you want but I can't help but think that this is what'll happen when your guests receive their invitations. Unless they're the type who are used to going to these sorts of events.

Larry Wildman

Lingua Franca wrote: »

Until fairly recently people got married in a smart outfit with immediate family and close friends at the ceremony, then back to the family home for drinks and sandwiches. All of the emphasis was on family and community, not how much you could provide and recieve. This modern fashion for increasingly elaborately staged weddings is pretentious and crass, imo. Not to mention an absolutely appalling waste of money that anyone involved can rarely afford. The typical Irish wedding, with it's overlong day and incredible expenses, already churns my stomach, never mind one with pretentions.

As you can probably guess I don't go to many weddings anymore :P but a friend of a friend recently had the most beautiful wedding in the garden of his bride's parents. Hay bales for seating, kegs and wine in the shed as the free bar, the party went on all weekend and everyone seemed to love it.

"Until recently"?

The format of weddings has been the same for at least 50 years. Yes some superfluous nonsense like "favours" has been added but the "church/hotel/meal/dress up" model is around a long time.

Tarzana2

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Of course it does! Whichever way you cut it, it'll cost. Outfits, transport, drinks money, gifts. You can't go to a wedding, and it not cost SOMETHING.

Of course they cost money to attend. But much of your list there is elective. I don't buy a new outfit for each wedding usually. There's been weddings where I haven't spent much on drinks. Black tie adds an additional necessary cost + hassle of finding outfit.

Tarzana2

Larry Wildman wrote: »

€70 to rent a tux (if you don't already have one) is a marginal increase over the cost of actually attending a wedding (which can be up to €1,000 in my experience).

I wouldn't spend €1000 to attend any wedding.

My sister's next month, I'll spend max €500 and that's with a bigger gift than I usually give.

byhookorbycrook

Black tie is incorrect dress for day time, why would you put extra expense on people and then have everyone in the incorrect dress, is it for snob value??

Tarzana2

fits wrote: »

its also standard spend if you're female. The black tie thing really effects the men more imo.

Not really, most women won't own a suitable evening gown so will have to buy. And not all women run out and buy an outift for every wedding they attend.

Tarzana2

amdublin wrote: »

Think of Miranda is sex and the city - married in the open air and then back to a casual bar for food and drinks.
Looked great to me.

Her wedding = my dream. Having said that, she was a wealthy lawyer. I'd say the ficticious food was top notch! :pac:

Larry Wildman

Tarzana2 wrote: »

I wouldn't spend €1000 to attend any wedding.

My sister's next month, I'll spend max €500 and that's with a bigger gift than I usually give.

€250 for the gift
€400 for accommodation
€180 for hair
€15 to get tux cleaned
€250 for dress/etc
€200 for booze/food
€50 for petrol

That's what I can think of off the top of my head and would be pretty standard in our circle and that's before stags or hens are factored in.

Larry Wildman

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Black tie is incorrect dress for day time, why would you put extra expense on people and then have everyone in the incorrect dress, is it for snob value??

Oh so true.

Black tie during the day is an abomination and a social faux pas.

Lingua Franca

Larry Wildman wrote: »

"Until recently"?

The format of weddings has been the same for at least 50 years. Yes some superfluous nonsense like "favours" has been added but the "church/hotel/meal/dress up" model is around a long time.

My parents and their peers were married in the manner I described in the 70s. The church/hotel/meal/dress up model only became the norm, at least among the working class, in the 80s after the wedding of the prince of Wales.

Peregrinus

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Black tie is incorrect dress for day time, why would you put extra expense on people and then have everyone in the incorrect dress, is it for snob value??

True. Strictly speaking formal dress for a wedding should be morning dress, not evening dress.

Tarzana2

Larry Wildman wrote: »

€250 for the gift
€400 for accommodation
€180 for hair
€15 to get tux cleaned
€250 for dress/etc
€200 for booze/food
€50 for petrol

That's what I can think of off the top of my head and would be pretty standard in our circle and that's before stags or hens are factored in.

Well, I'd spend a lot less on a lot of those things. And some wouldn't even be a factor each wedding ie. new outfit, hair. So... there you go!

But anyway, I expect you're stirring as mentioned by someone earlier. The most consummate stirrers are subtle about it. FYI.

Larry Wildman

Lingua Franca wrote: »

My parents and their peers were married in the manner I described in the 70s. The church/hotel/meal/dress up model only became the norm, at least among the working class, in the 80s after the wedding of the prince of Wales.

That must be it so...not being funny, but I'm not talking about working class people.

When I see old photos and hear about family weddings in the 60s and 70s, there were morning suits, wedding cars, hotel receptions etc. I thought that was the norm.

Peregrinus

Larry Wildman wrote: »

That must be it so...not being funny, but I'm not talking about working class people.

When I see old photos and hear about family weddings in the 60s and 70s, there were morning suits, wedding cars, hotel receptions etc. I thought that was the norm.

It was pretty much the norm, depending on how much you wanted to spend.

Weddings were held in the morning. The wedding party wore formal clothes, which meant morning dress, not evening dress. After the wedding everyone went off for a meal, often but not always in a hotel, which was called the "wedding breakfast" (though it was in fact lunch). It wasn't customary for anyone who hadn't been to the wedding and the meal to come to "afters". The couple themselves left the reception before anyone else, usually about an hour after the meal had finished. It was bad form for anyone to leave before the bridal couple, but they started leaving pretty soon afterwards, esp. the older generation.

At the posh end of the market, everyone might wear morning dress, not just the wedding party, but on the other hand the whole thing ended quite early. Like mid-afternoon.

Beaner1

Peregrinus wrote: »

True. Strictly speaking formal dress for a wedding should be morning dress, not evening dress.

That would be an interesting thread. Invites specifying morning dress.

mirrorwall14

Beaner1 wrote: »

That would be an interesting thread. Invites specifying morning dress.

Pyjamas? Sorry couldn't resist

If you were having a late in the day, christmas wedding black tie could be nice. For the standard Irish wedding though it's a bit OTT

Peregrinus

Beaner1 wrote: »

That would be an interesting thread. Invites specifying morning dress.

Only the bridal party wore morning dress, typically. You would never specify morning dress on an invitation, any more than you would specify that people should wear black to a funeral.

zagmund

I have to say I'm amused by the number of people who consider it a faux pas to wear the wrong clothes at the wrong time of day. It's like we're in a time warp here. Last I checked, people get up in the morning, get dressed and wear their clothes for the day. They don't get their lady in waiting to lay out an outfit for afternoon tea. They don't typically dress for dinner either. What I'm saying is that this concept of wearing certain clothes at a certain time of day *only* . . . it just doesn't exist any more. Well, except for pyjamas of course.

If I see someone in evening wear at lunchtime I don't go "tut, tut, they absolutely must have gone to the wrong school, what the dickens are they thinking?", I just think "there's someone dressed up and off to a do".

If you can carry it off, then I say go for the black tie. I've been to a few over the years and enjoyed them, but as mentioned above if it's going to be black tie, then the venue & service really must match or else you end up with the guests at one formal level and the venue at another, so you get a half baked look.

z

Toots

Toots wrote: »

Guys can we keep it on topic, ie: answering the question that was asked in the OP.

OK, so it seems that some people are having trouble with the above. I'm locking the thread because it's gone off topic.

OP if you want it re-opened just drop me a PM and I'll sort it out.