Reminder of the protest March against Irish Water on the 1st of November

shinzon

Please share and get as many people out as you can

Shin

barneystinson

shinzon wrote: »

Please share and get as many people out as you can

Shin

Or.....

Accept that they just cut taxes to compensate for the fact that water will now be paid for separately, and get on with your life...

shinzon

barneystinson wrote: »

Or.....

Accept that they just cut taxes to compensate for the fact that water will now be paid for separately, and get on with your life...

and that's why I don't listen to crap like that and at least try and do something to affect change, the governments in disarray, they haven't a clue what there doing with Irish Water, because of one march there offering sweetners bribes, talking about restructuring the board, putting in a cap on charges. None of which was even mentioned till after the March

I don't know what the hell has happened to this country I really don't, everyones a load of sheep just paying money left right and centre without any thought, you must be rich is all ill say. If you want to pay money fine off you go, the rest of the sensible people will be fighting tooth and nail to make sure we don't pay a corrupt bloated jobs for the boys quango, the people of Ireland have one chance to kill IW off and if its not taken dont bitch and moan come 2016 when youll be paying 3 times as much for water as now when government subvention is pulled and IW is privatised

Shin

barneystinson

shinzon wrote: »

and that's why I don't listen to crap like that and at least try and do something to affect change, the governments in disarray, they haven't a clue what there doing with Irish Water, because of one march there offering sweetners bribes, talking about restructuring the board, putting in a cap on charges. None of which was even mentioned till after the March

I don't know what the hell has happened to this country I really don't, everyones a load of sheep just paying money left right and centre without any thought, you must be rich is all ill say. If you want to pay money fine off you go, the rest of the sensible people will be fighting tooth and nail to make sure we don't pay a corrupt bloated jobs for the boys quango, the people of Ireland have one chance to kill IW off and if its not taken dont bitch and moan come 2016 when youll be paying 3 times as much for water as now when government subvention is pulled and IW is privatised

Shin

Unless you've a crystall ball then that's just speculation based on your own heavily biased view.

There's a reason water is paid for separately across most of the civilised world, and our very poor and leaky infrastructure goes to show exactly why.

I'm not rich nor am I "happy" to pay, but I'll at least give them a chance to try to implement a better, fairer and more sustainable structure for what is a very important utility.

Granted, they've made a fair stones of it so far, but that doesn't mean the principle is wrong.

Most people I've seen/heard complaining about it, their main concern was that we're already paying for it through general taxation - my taxes have come down in the budget by more than I'll be paying, and that will be the case for a lot of people, so that argument becomes redundant.

shinzon

I feel sorry for you I really do that you just cant see the big picture, so you've had a reduction in the taxes you pay whoop de doo,

so let me ask you this question as you've obviously already signed up, whats your monetary value ? 600, 1000 euro whats your breaking point when will you say I made a mistake and simply cant pay the charge, or is your absolute maniacal need to pay for water over riding common sense and it just doesn't matter what they charge you.

And I dont have any heavily biased view, if they weren't going to sell it off it would have been made a full state body not a private limited company, and theres no crystal ball IW will be sold off

anyway this is my last post on the matter, this was supposed to be a reminder about the march not another pro-anti water rant, theres threads for that and this is not it

Shin

fiachr_a

How much will Garda have to pay to use their water cannon?

Sully

It's a bit hypocritical when people have a moan we already pay for water through general taxes and we are paying double. Government drops taxes. People pretend they never had that argument and play dumb.

Food is a human right too. We pay for food, we often pay well over the odds for food.

Waterford is a human right too. We pay for water, but nowhere near enough and we get a completely inadequate water network and for many, very poor quality of water. So now we pay more and it's ringfenced.

barneystinson

shinzon wrote: »

I feel sorry for you I really do that you just cant see the big picture, so you've had a reduction in the taxes you pay whoop de doo,

so let me ask you this question as you've obviously already signed up, whats your monetary value ? 600, 1000 euro whats your breaking point when will you say I made a mistake and simply cant pay the charge, or is your absolute maniacal need to pay for water over riding common sense and it just doesn't matter what they charge you.

And I dont have any heavily biased view, if they weren't going to sell it off it would have been made a full state body not a private limited company, and theres no crystal ball IW will be sold off

anyway this is my last post on the matter, this was supposed to be a reminder about the march not another pro-anti water rant, theres threads for that and this is not it

Shin

Plenty of things have been privatised in plenty of places and ever escalating prices haven't ensued. I work in the public sector myself but I don't believe every service or utility should be privatised.

Do you think electricity provision should be state run? The world didnt end when that market was liberalised, I don't see why you think water being privatised would somehow be such a catastrophe...

shinzon

theres threads for anti-pro water rants and raves on both sides, do it in those threads this is for a reminder about the protest nothing more, I don't want this thread to be muddled up with those

Shin

Sully

shinzon wrote: »

theres threads for anti-pro water rants and raves on both sides, do it in those threads this is for a reminder about the protest nothing more, I don't want this thread to be muddled up with those

Shin

When the going gets tough? :P

shinzon

No I just realise that no matter what I say you 2 will be paying so theres no point in debating or putting my points across because I wont change yere minds

plus I didn't actually start the thread to start debating the whole water charge thing twas to remind people who want to march the date and time

Shin

Sully

shinzon wrote: »

No I just realise that no matter what I say you 2 will be paying so theres no point in debating or putting my points across because I wont change yere minds

plus I didn't actually start the thread to start debating the whole water charge thing twas to remind people who want to march the date and time

Shin

I was joking

Everybody is entitled to their opinion and to freely debate (within the law / rules etc).

But yeah, we have had a bit of debate on this here so I say leave it let lie and allow the protest take center stage of the thread.

barneystinson

Sully wrote: »

I was joking

Everybody is entitled to their opinion and to freely debate (within the law / rules etc).

But yeah, we have had a bit of debate on this here so I say leave it let lie and allow the protest take center stage of the thread.

How about a protest against Anti-IW protests...?

crustybla

Roll on the 1st!

barneystinson

crustybla wrote: »

Roll on the 1st!

I hope the skies bestow the protestors with an abundance of FREE water...

Sully

barneystinson wrote: »

I hope the skies bestow the protestors with an abundance of FREE water...

I'm sure they will all collect the water to wash themselves from it and drink from it. Because that's what happens, right? We do drink untreated and unfiltered rain water, don't we?!

robtri

Sully wrote: »

I'm sure they will all collect the water to wash themselves from it and drink from it. Because that's what happens, right? We do drink untreated and unfiltered rain water, don't we?!

AND WE ALREADY PAY FOR IT

1.2 BILLION A YEAR from an incease in taxes and excise in 1997

See the 1997 Local government funding act....
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/pdf/1997/en.act.1997.0029.pdf
page three.... have a read...

You already PAY for the water coming out of your taps.....

so I dont know where you get your free water from but I am curious to know ??
this is the usual FG rubbish... free water.... HA HA HA

Sully

robtri wrote: »

AND WE ALREADY PAY FOR IT

1.2 BILLION A YEAR from an incease in taxes and excise in 1997

See the 1997 Local government funding act....
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/pdf/1997/en.act.1997.0029.pdf
page three.... have a read...

You already PAY for the water coming out of your taps.....

so I dont know where you get your free water from but I am curious to know ??
this is the usual FG rubbish... free water.... HA HA HA

Where did I say the water was free?

robtri

Sully wrote: »

Where did I say the water was free?

your quote implied it was free with the FG line.... we drink untreated and unfiltered water, implying there is a cost and effort to make it drinkable... trying to be smart about it, in relation to people protesting against irish water

Sully

robtri wrote: »

your quote implied it was free with the FG line.... we drink untreated and unfiltered water, implying there is a cost and effort to make it drinkable... trying to be smart about it, in relation to people protesting against irish water

The person I quoted said it was free, but I wasn't endorsing what he said when I quoted him. I quoted him to respond to what he said. Based on that logic, since you quoted me and believed I was implying it was free, than you too were implying it's free because you quoted me and thus it's implied?!

Your post confuses me. On the one hand you tell me it's NOT free, then on the other you proceed to tell me that it IS free.

robtri

Sully wrote: »

The person I quoted said it was free, but I wasn't endorsing what he said when I quoted him. I quoted him to respond to what he said. Based on that logic, since you quoted me and believed I was implying it was free, than you too were implying it's free because you quoted me and thus it's implied?!

Your post confuses me. On the one hand you tell me it's NOT free, then on the other you proceed to tell me that it IS free.

Maybe I read too much between the lines on your post... in my mind your post was very deliberate in poking fun with rain and implying its free to treat it and drink it...

But the fact still remains
monies for water has been ringfenced already in the act i referenced above

we already pay for water (1.2 billion a year in taxes, irish water iirc needs around 1.8 to 2 billion a year, so to raise the additional 600 to 800 million a year the government seems fit to charge us an extra 2 billion.... I have no problems paying for water, but the way this is done is unacceptable

it is also not just the issue of paying for water....

its the data protection stuff.... seriously they want all that information about me and want me to agree that they can give to anyone they see fit.....
ehhhh no

the way FG have used Irish Water to give jobs for the boys.

The way contracts where awarded without competition

the way Irish water is currently spending money...

the salaries of the top end employees

the breaches already in data protection, sending name and bank details of tennants to landlords.

The riddiculous bonus schemes....

the gym

the list goes on......




the way it has been set up as a private company instead of government body, so it can pay it jobs for boys more than government pay agreements. and how it now can be sold to the highest bidder as soon as government think its a good time.....

it is a farce from start to finish....


It would have been more proper to set up a government body, under the current pay agreements and public competition for vendors and employees. Transfer the civil servants under the same terms and conditions.
use the monies that has been ringfenced to fix pipes and issues... and if more needed then use the already existing mechanism to fund extra when needed..

Sully

robtri wrote: »

Maybe I read too much between the lines on your post... in my mind your post was very deliberate in poking fun with rain and implying its free to treat it and drink it...

You're half right. I was joking because I find it amusing that people associated our water with rain water. One of the arguments I often hear is that we get LOADS of water every year and it's free from the air.

My point in the post you responded to was that, while yes we get lots of free water from the air it's not the water coming out of your taps and into your toilet! That water has been pipped into a facility that cleans it and treats it, before it's brought along pipes into your house. That's not free, that costs a considerable amount of money.

But the fact still remains
monies for water has been ringfenced already in the act i referenced above

we already pay for water (1.2 billion a year in taxes, irish water iirc needs around 1.8 to 2 billion a year, so to raise the additional 600 to 800 million a year the government seems fit to charge us an extra 2 billion.... I have no problems paying for water, but the way this is done is unacceptable

it is also not just the issue of paying for water....

The problem facing the government, the previous government and future governments is that we can't afford to pump this money into the water system from the central fund. We are being bled dry left right and center. The government has had to develop ways to increase taxation and make savings so every aspect of running a country can be done. Property Tax will head towards Local Government, Water Tax will head towards our Water Network. Other taxes go elsewhere in the running of our country.

If the government was getting 2bn a year for Water and Irish Water needed the same, sure why would they bother creating the body and get all this hassle? For the craic?

its the data protection stuff.... seriously they want all that information about me and want me to agree that they can give to anyone they see fit.....
ehhhh no

Well the Data Protection Commissioner doesn't seem overly worried. Irish Water has assured people that they won't be selling the data on and will be providing it in relation to your service and that's that. They can't legally sell it on or use it inappropriately anyway.

The PPS number is being used for your allowances, to verify your request with the Government Bodies that have such information. Don't want allowances? Don't give the PPS No. If you can think of a better way to get allowances, than I would love to hear it tbh.

the way FG have used Irish Water to give jobs for the boys.

I don't think every aspect of Irish Water has been Fine Gael appointing people? There hasn't been widespread reports of that at all.

The way contracts where awarded without competition

Which contracts? The installation of meters did go out for tender?

the way Irish water is currently spending money...

Amen to that. Irish Water has been a fiasco in so many areas, including it's dramatic spending.

the salaries of the top end employees

That's a debate for a different day. A lot of these public companies seem to pay big wages. It's small enough numbers on the big pay anyway.

the breaches already in data protection, sending name and bank details of tennants to landlords.

A mistake tho.

The riddiculous bonus schemes....

Which I can't get my head around, and it appears nobody else can either!

the gym

No issue with that. Lots of companies offer perks for it's staff.

the way it has been set up as a private company instead of government body, so it can pay it jobs for boys more than government pay agreements. and how it now can be sold to the highest bidder as soon as government think its a good time.....

It's a semi-state. Not a private company. Company can't be sold on, it's against the law. Personally don't mind if it was sold on.

it is a farce from start to finish....

There is absolutely no denying that Irish Water is an absolute mess of a company. It's PR/Communication and some aspects of it's pricing and costings are outrageous. Bonus Schemes I don't see the point of, and I don't understand how the hell it works in IW. Company benefits, no bother to me at all.

IW needs to start all over again and get it's house in order.

crustybla

barneystinson wrote: »

I hope the skies bestow the protestors with an abundance of FREE water...

Won't deter me in the least.:)

the watchman

Detroit has privatised its water supply.
27,000 cut offs this year.

The people of Detroit are marching in solidarity with the Irish on the 1st November.....


http://ascomfortableontheleftwingastheduffer.wordpress.com/2014/10/21/detroit-water-shut-offs-could-be-a-sign-of-things-to-come-in-ireland/

Cabaal

There's enough iw discussions on boards.ie, we don't need yet another thread discussing the same old stuff.