How to find reputable breeder for a pedigree Bullmastiff?

runswithascript

There are pups available on various classifieds websites but as much as we would like to rush out and buy today I think we should do some research first. We have checked the topdog.ie website and there are no Bullmastiff shows held although there are shows specifically for other breeds. There is an option on the Irish Kennel Club website to search for shows but it does not seem to be working.

What is the best way to find our new dog and what is a fair price to pay?

ACD

You may get some info from these guys - Bullmastiff association of Ireland, this is their info, hopefully current: http://www.ikc.ie/bullmastiff-association-ireland

For info on show dates you can use this website http://dogshowentry.ie/ , you could meet some of the breeders at the shows and have a chat with them there.

muddypaws

Not all breed clubs/organisations put on their own shows, but Bullmastiffs would be judged at other shows. If you look through the schedule for the other shows, you will see their classes.

Is there a breed club in Ireland? That would be the way forward, contact them.

DBB

As it happens, I know the lady who's the club secretary ACD posted above, I knew her before she got into showing and breeding, but she is a lifelong Bull Mastiff owner, is a lovely lady, loves her dogs, has very nice facilities and yes, if I was going to buy a Bull Mastiff, she'd be my first port of call.

Edited to add, some time after originally posting the above...
The passage of time and gaining of knowledge forces me to retract what I said above. Just for the benefit of anyone reading this thread in years to come.
Thanks,
DBB

runswithascript

Great info there, thanks to all. We have already started making enquiries.

What is a fair price? Anything tips to choosing or just go with the pup that grabs our attention? We love dogs but I would also like this Bullmastiff to serve as a guard dog around the house.

andreac

Just make sure the parents are health tested, ie hip/elbow scored. They should be at least hip scored. Not all breeders elbow scored.

I would expect to pay anything upwards from 800 euro. They could be 1000 depending on the parents and if they are champions etc.

runswithascript

andreac wrote: »

Just make sure the parents are health tested, ie hip/elbow scored. They should be at least hip scored. Not all breeders elbow scored.

I would expect to pay anything upwards from 800 euro. They could be 1000 depending on the parents and if they are champions etc.

Ouch, okay, thanks. Perhaps paying that sort of money, and wanting to get the best dog we can, we should be insisting on hip and elbow scores!

andreac

It's not about insisting on hip scores. You shouldn't even consider a breeder that doesn't hip score the parents of your new pup.

A breeder that doesn't carry out these tests should be avoided at all costs as they are only back yard breeders or puppy farmers.

If cost is an issue then I suggest you start saving and don't rush into getting a cheap pup as you will pay in the long run.

pups from reputable breeders cost a bit more because of health tests and proper rearing and responsible rearing of the litter which costs money.

DBB

dusf wrote: »

Ouch, okay, thanks. Perhaps paying that sort of money, and wanting to get the best dog we can, we should be insisting on hip and elbow scores!

The way I look at it is this.
You pay a good, reputable breeder €800 for a Bull Mastiff from health-tested parents.
I can't remember the last litter of BMs I saw on Donedeal, or rather how much they cost, but let's say you could get one for €300. That's probably conservative for a giant, reasonably unusual breed.
So, that's €500 more. It seems a huge outlay.
But let's take it that your dog will live 10 years.
That's €50 extra per year, just less than €1 per week.
Chances are you'll miss out on health problems that could cost you a huge amount more from buying a thrown-together dog. Chances are too that your well bred pup will last 10 years or more.
It is a gamble buying any pedigree dog, but the odds are shortened when you go for a well bred puppy. The big outlay could end up being small money.
To illustrate, a fella rang me last year looking for recommendations for good breeders of a terrier breed I'm involved with. He opted for a donedeal puppy for half the price instead. Within the first week, he had spent the purchase price again in vet fees, as his pup had one of the major inherited health problems this breed is prone to. By contrast, I've sent a fair few people to those good breeders, and not one of them has had their dogs at the vet for anything other than routine stuff.

aonb

not to be a scaremonger, but just to reiterate how important it is to go to a reputable breeder - there is the most beautiful Bull Mastiff living down the lane from us. He is less that 3 years old. He had an inherited eye disease, had the eye removed, the other eye then started to deteriorate, and the dog is now blind. In addition the dog is also deaf. Horrendous for such a beautiful beautifuil dog. He lives with a Lab and copes well in his own property, its incredible to watch the two dogs together - its like the Lab knows the Mastiff has a problem. He was bought from a less that reputable breeder unfortunately. So DEFINITELY worth heeding the advice here to lok for a healthy pup.

ShaShaBear

Seconded again - sooo many people tell you nowadays that purebred dogs are so much more prone to illness than these handy "designer" crosses, but in reality it is because so many people are happy to fork out the price of a pup on DoneDeal, thinking "Well it's a purebred", when there was absolutely nothing "pure" about it!

Opie here was bought at SIX weeks as a "pure-bred" collie, and the naive folks believed when the man told them that they had to register him, and of course he was a pure-bred - his mum was a collie and his dad was a collie - sure there they both are out there in the field!

Long story short, don't be tempted by DoneDeal, or the promise of a very healthy pup by a fancy ad, a posh-looking set up etc. Good breeders have waiting lists as long as your arm, and don't need to do any advertising bar showing up at a show with their dogs or by word of mouth from previous sales

Tranceypoo

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Seconded again - sooo many people tell you nowadays that purebred dogs are so much more prone to illness than these handy "designer" crosses, but in reality it is because so many people are happy to fork out the price of a pup on DoneDeal, thinking "Well it's a purebred", when there was absolutely nothing "pure" about it!

Opie here was bought at SIX weeks as a "pure-bred" collie, and the naive folks believed when the man told them that they had to register him, and of course he was a pure-bred - his mum was a collie and his dad was a collie - sure there they both are out there in the field!

Long story short, don't be tempted by DoneDeal, or the promise of a very healthy pup by a fancy ad, a posh-looking set up etc. Good breeders have waiting lists as long as your arm, and don't need to do any advertising bar showing up at a show with their dogs or by word of mouth from previous sales

Slightly off topic but WHY on EARTH would ANYONE buy a collie of all breeds (unless they wanted a top quality working dog), when the pounds and rescues are full of them, they are surely one of the most (if not the most) overbred and discarded breeds of dog in Ireland. Also one of the most intelligent and gorgeous and smart and loving of course (yes I am owned by a collie of some kind of mix!)

ShaShaBear

Totally agreed here, they are NOT a dog for the faint-hearted and the ONLY reason we adopted him is because we have plenty of collie experience with one of the most difficult collies you could ever meet!
Destructive chewing, separation anxiety, obsessive herding drive, dog aggression... you name it!

But in rescues local to me (N/E) I've counted, in the past fortnight, a total of 17 collie pups under 6 months, most given in WITH their mothers, and one with the father who was the BROTHER of the mother!!

jimf

I have read quite a bit recently on the designer crosses people have this notion as their not purebred then they will not have the same issues as purebred pups

my argument would be how can you be sure you are not breeding the problems of both into a litter as we all know here all breeds have their little quirks and health issues

ferretone

jimf wrote: »

I have read quite a bit recently on the designer crosses people have this notion as their not purebred then they will not have the same issues as purebred pups

my argument would be how can you be sure you are not breeding the problems of both into a litter as we all know here all breeds have their little quirks and health issues

Oh yeah, that is quite a long-standing argument among all people with any knowledge of dogs, genetics etc. For instance, a few years ago, some celebrity or other touted the charm of a so-called designer dog, the "puggle". A pug/beagle cross. Many of these poor unfortunate pups inherited all of the high-spiritedness and prey drive of the beagle, along with all of the breathing and heart difficulties of the pug. It's clear what a recipe for disaster that is.

And that was sadly not alone in the ill-thought-out crosses people have been touting as "designer puppies" in the past few years. There is no very clear proof anywhere, that mixed breeds are healthier than their purebred counterparts. And every reason to believe that the best breeders, from the best lines, using the best practice and testing to determine they are breeding from the healthiest stock, are indeed the best source to give you the best chance to have a healthy, long-lived pup.

No reason at all, however, not to take a rescue dog of uncertain ancestry. They need good homes too. However you must be aware in that case that you are getting a "pig in a poke", and be prepared to absorb any veterinary and/or behavioural issues that arise from this. You can get really lucky, and there is nothing more awesome than a truly brilliant mongrel, but you cannot rely upon it, and must not expect your mixed breed dog to be somehow, magically more healthy than a pure-bred.

runswithascript

It has been mentioned on this thread before that one could expect to pay between €800 - €1000 for a well bred Bullmastiff puppy. Recently a possible price of €1500 has been mentioned to us though we were initially under the impression the cost would be much closer to what was mentioned on the thread, and that is what we have budgeted for.

- would there ever be cause to pay this much?

- what is the absolute maximum that should be paid for a Bullmastiff puppy of good pedigree?

We are only considering pedigree, and we are not interested in Done Deal dogs for €300 etc for the many reasons already cited in this thread.

kylith

Adding my voice to the 'buy the most expensive you can afford from a good breeder' choir. A family member of mine bought a cocker on a whim from a classified website and within a few weeks it was at death's door after developing lesions all over its body. The breeder wouldn't answer the phone, the kids were distraught, and it cost hundreds in vet bills. It's fine now, but even I can see that the coat is all wrong for a cocker so it's either not pure bred ("we'll send the papers on"), or is badly bred.

tk123

I don't think I'd necessarily agree with the most expensive puppy being the best? I'm not saying buy the cheapest one you can get but you need to suss out the breeder, the parents and the puppies to make the best decision from that. We have a buy in haste dog (thanks to my dad) and a second one that I did my research on. While I love them both to bits I know which one is less trouble - both financially and mentally! My boy has had both legs surgically straightened, a tumor removed from his jaw last year and a thryoid problem as well as behavioral issues which have given me grey hair! The physical issues may be correctable/manageable but the behavioral issues that come with them can be a challenge at the best of times - yes they can be managed in theory but I've found in practice it's a lot harder! He's been lame on and off the last month most possible due to pulled muscles/soft tissue damage but there's always the what-if/worst case scenario worry with him because it usually IS the worst case scenario. He can't be left at home because of his anxiety, I don't like walking him in the park beside us anymore because he's restricted atm and going crazy when we see a friend and wants them to talk to him -etc etc
The other dog? She's poked both eyes with sticks a, cut her paw in 2 years and is laid back and no trouble. I was very very careful picking a breeder, was able to look into the linage and suss out the mum when I met her (they didn't own the dad) to see how she was temperament wise. Going by some prices she was €200+ cheaper than some of the other breeders who were recommended to me - I didn't bother seeing their puppies because I knew I was on to a winner with the breeder I chose - cost wasn't really a factor it was their setup for the puppies and their parents that were more important to me.

runswithascript

Thanks for the advice so far.

The breeder is now saying that because this line of dog is so rare that we would have to agree to give the right to the owner of the pups mother that our dog could be bred with a bitch of hers in the future. We were also told this may never happen, but if it were to the cost of transport etc would be covered by her.

When I asked if we would have a right to puppies I was told no. We have been told the dog could be sold for more in the UK that I would be paying.

Is this normal for a rare line of a breed?

VonVix

Rare line of a breed? Didn't think there was such a thing in a Bullmastiff, in fact I would think that to be BYB talk you're hearing.

I know there are desirable lines, because there are many successful dogs in those lines who are champions, proven in their field of work and have all the necessary paper work when it comes to their health.

Speaking of which, is her bitch hip/elbow scored? Won trophies?

I have heard similar requests before, but only if the dog grows up in the future to be proven in the ring (or working) and have grown to successfully complete all the necessary health checks as an adult dog. If she's looking at your dog as nothing more than a potential sperm donor, run far, far away from this one.

Also, sorry if I sounds really pessimistic. I have come across so many terrible breeders that I think the good ones are bloody hard to find.

runswithascript

Last week we were told there were only definitely two bitches available, possibly a male but he cannot say for certain. He said one of the bitches has a kink in its tail so would be slightly cheaper as it may not be able to compete. He was trying to steer us towards taking this dog. I told him I had thought we would have a choice between male and female, and that if I was going to spend €12/1300 on a bitch with a kink it its tail I would rather spend €1500 on one without a fault.

He called me this morning to say the owner of the pups' father (not mother) was over from England - he told us that dog had a back problem from an accident but he nursed him back to good health to breed with one of his bitches - and he is trying to persuade her to let him sell one of the dogs to us instead of to someone in England for £1500. When I asked if we would have a right to pups he said it would be a free service we would have to agree to and he does not have time to get into the nitty gritty.

tk123

dusf wrote: »

he does not have time to get into the nitty gritty.

I'd walk away TBH. Sounds link he's trying to pressure you by saying somebody else wants one etc and but not having time to go into details?!? What happens if there's a problem or you need advise and he doesn't have time for you? A breeder should be delighted that you have questions for them - it shows you plan on being responsible and are taking things seriously.

runswithascript

This is their website, what do you think?

<link snipped>

Knine

Run. Run away fast. - They are horrible people.

runswithascript

Knine wrote: »

Run. Run away fast. - They are horrible people.

Can you please elaborate?

runswithascript

Some very, very disappointed people here but we think telling the breeder we are going to look elsewhere was for the best. He has been telling us how many people are looking for these pups from all over the world, and that they would sell for more money in the UK easily, so they should not have any difficulty finding a good home for the dog.

If anyone could recommend reputable Bull Mastiff breeder we would love to hear about them.

VonVix

dusf wrote: »

Some very, very disappointed people here but we think telling the breeder we are going to look elsewhere was for the best. He has been telling us how many people are looking for these pups from all over the world, and that they would sell for more money in the UK easily, so they should not have any difficulty finding a good home for the dog.

If anyone could recommend reputable Bull Mastiff breeder we would love to hear about them.

Believe what you see, not what you hear.

My dogs are UK and Ireland agility champions, and have won at Crufts many times.
(Not really, but you see what I mean? :P )

Cherry Blossom

Hi OP,
As you have made your decision, I think it best to remove the link to avoid possible claims of defamation.

That said, I know nothing about this breeder but based purely on the page on their website dedicated to slating their fellow exhibitors I would say you have made the right decision. That is very unprofessional behaviour and it comes across as the man having a massive chip on his shoulder. He sounds like the type of person who is always right.

oppenheimer1

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Hi OP,
As you have made your decision, I think it best to remove the link to avoid possible claims of defamation.

That said, I know nothing about this breeder but based purely on the page on their website dedicated to slating their fellow exhibitors I would say you have made the right decision. That is very unprofessional behaviour and it comes across as the man having a massive chip on his shoulder. He sounds like the type of person who is always right.

No shortage of those types around here too.

OP may I ask why you want a bull mastiff?

DBB

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

No shortage of those types around here too.

Oppenheimer1,
You have been warned recently enough to stop dissing or passing remarks about the users of this forum.
This is a final warning. No more of it from hereon in.
Do not reply to this post on thread.
Thanks.
DBB