NBA Regular Season 14/15

Paully D

Given the LeBron chat, I thought it would be interesting to have a look back on the first season he was at Miami (2010/2011) to see if there was similar trends in the discussions on the 2010/2011 NBA Season Thread.

Quite interesting reading in parts. In around December 2010, so a few months in to his time at Miami, there was some talk regarding Spolestra needing to man up with regards to LeBron, but with a counter argument that there was only going to be one winner if it comes down to LeBron vs Head Coach. Not too dissimilar to the Blatt situation now.

Also, taken from Woj (though it's widely known he hates LeBron as he's never been able to get into his circle to get the type of access he wants) in November 2010: "Heat folding under weight of season"

MIAMI – The words would come out of Old Man Riles’ playbook, a young coach desperate to rewire confusion and calamity into something strong and sure. Oh, this is no surprise. Oh, this will be great for us come the playoffs. With his declarations of processes and timetables, Erik Spoelstra sounded like a new-age CEO spinning the shareholders. His Miami Heat are soft, staggered and fragile to the touch.

“In the last 48 hours, we’re getting to know each other,” Spoelstra said. “This is good. You need to face this adversity.

“You need to stumble.”

Yes, they’re getting to know each other. With two horrific losses within three days at American Airlines Arena, the Heat are mortified to find themselves fighting to stay above .500, and Spoelstra is getting to know his superstar, LeBron James(notes). Chris Bosh(notes) came and went, Dwyane Wade(notes) stood in the corners and watched. Most of all, James found himself in postseason shape, closing a loss to the Boston Celtics with a missed layup, two missed free throws and a corner 3-pointer off the side of the backboard.

The world’s bearing down, times are tumultuous, and James is the one Heat star in playoff form.

“For myself, 44 minutes is too much,” James declared. “I think Coach Spo knows that. Forty minutes for D-Wade is too much. We have to have as much energy as we can to finish games out.”

There you go, Coach Spo.

Get to know him well.

Two days earlier, James had done nothing in overtime and ultimately decided the difference was a Hall of Fame coach, Jerry Sloan, who knew exactly what the Heat were going to do. James never takes responsibility, never says, “I’m the MVP and I need to do more.” He didn’t do it in Cleveland, and he’s never going to do it in Miami. Now, 44 minutes in a grudge game with the Celtics is too much. Always an out, always an excuse.

The Celtics were machinery. They beat up the Heat, obliterated them on the boards and bludgeoned them in a 112-107 victory. The Heat were never close, even with a late fool’s-gold rally that never truly threatened the Celtics. With their brilliant passing, precise shooting and ferocious physical play, no one exposes the flaws of these Heat like the Celtics.

Boston believes it can bully these Heat, believes they’re susceptible to games of the mind and body. When it was over, Big Baby Davis marched out of the showers and declared: “No one can spoil this night. Good for us to come in and spank that ass.”

As the Celtics hung around town for a couple days before the game, they loved hearing the Heat lament about how tough teams had been on them, how they’d been targeted for physical play. So the Celtics started laying out Miami players with forceful screens, flagrant fouls and crushing shots at the rim. They harassed Wade into missing 10 of 12 shots and made James work for his 35 points, 10 rebounds and nine assists.

Frequent isolations are reducing Wade to an offensive sidebar, and the death of ball movement is turning these Heat into something so eerily familiar with the Cleveland Cavaliers: LeBron, and four guys watching LeBron.

There’s time for the Heat to become a more fluid, more polished offensive team. They’re not missing X’s and O’s as much as they’re missing a mindset. They created something that they played make-believe about embracing. They talked tough about reveling in a world that despises them, only to find it’s a bigger burden of scrutiny than they ever imagined.

Make no mistake: Wade and Bosh don’t want to be bad guys. It isn’t in their DNA. Bosh is a goofball who dresses up like a cowboy on YouTube. He loved the idea of coming to Miami for max money without max pressure. As Bosh figured, the big shots belonged to D-Wade and James, and he’d get all the benefits without the burdens.

“At times it will be bumpy, and this is a bumpy stretch,” Spoelstra said. “Nobody said this was going to be easy.”

No, the Heat just acted that way. They act surprised that people want to pop them in the mouth, that TVs and websites crackle with disdain for them. All those players like Eddie House(notes) who thought they were going on tour with a rock band? They’re now under the kind of daily national – even global – examination that they’ve never experienced. No one ever cared whether House missed a week’s worth of 3-pointers in the past. Now it’s dissected and digested everywhere.

And let’s face it: They’re getting buried because of LeBron. Now, they’re the bad guys, and they’ve never had to deal with the thickness of that haze. They turn on the television, the Internet, and people are wishing ill, reveling in the small failures of a young season. In a lot of ways, James is cut out for it. He’s oblivious. He surrounds himself with so many yes-men, so much skewed perspective, that his lack of self-awareness almost benefits him.

Before Spoelstra let the Heat leave the locker room on Thursday night, he declared that it was “us against the world.” Only, it isn’t the Heat against the world. It’s the Heat against themselves, against the backdrop of a hysteria they created through a smoky stage, public preening and promises of five and six championship rings. Spoelstra is kidding himself when he talks about a “different timeline” to develop the Heat, when he suggests that a 5-4 record isn’t such a big deal.

The Heat are long on talk and short on toughness. Right now, this is a mentally soft team that the Celtics exposed and will expose again – unless the Heat find some leadership, some character, some staying power. Riles would send his protégée to the interview room deep inside American Airlines Arena, and the words were straight out of his self-help manual: a young coach embracing the adversity and declaring it’ll make his team stronger come playoff time. Only, Spoelstra knows full well that he had better win, and win big, or he’ll never make it to the playoffs.

Erik Spoelstra pulled the pages straight out of Riles’ playbook, trying to transform chaos into a coachable moment. After the second devastating loss in three days, Spoelstra gave the Heat a big speech about staying together, about a world that would want to do harm to them. Yes, we’ll get to know each other now, Spoelstra said with a sigh. We’ll get to know all about us.

Times are tumultuous, and here was LeBron James, claiming that 44 minutes had worn him out, that he had nothing left in the end, and that Wade had played too much as well. One night, and King James had an issue with too many minutes on the floor. Always easier to blame some vague force, always easier to escape the responsibility. There you go, Coach Spo. There’s your star. Enjoy him.

buyer95

Paully D wrote: »

Given the LeBron chat, I thought it would be interesting to have a look back on the first season he was at Miami (2010/2011) to see if there was similar trends in the discussions on the 2010/2011 NBA Season Thread.

Quite interesting reading in parts. In around December 2010, so a few months in to his time at Miami, there was some talk regarding Spolestra needing to man up with regards to LeBron, but with a counter argument that there was only going to be one winner if it comes down to LeBron vs Head Coach. Not too dissimilar to the Blatt situation now.

Also, taken from Woj in November 2010: "Heat folding under weight of season"

2 things spring to mind reading this. Firstly Woj has held a grudge against LeBron for years, and does not hide his disdain for him here so I'd take it with a pinch of salt. Woj goes over the top in this article with the LeBron bashing. Also, not to sound condescending our anything, but Woj is a great trade reporter. He know's stuff before anyone else, and he breaks more trades than anyone else. But that doesn't mean that he understands the game as well as other NBA writers do.

Secondly, the is one big difference betwee the flailing Cavs of this season and the underperforming Heat of that season. That is that the Heat could play defense, one cannot understate how good Bosh is on defense compared to Love who is just beyond awful in that regard. The Cavs have not shown the ability to play defense at anywhere near a championship level, with Miami the defense was there more or less from the start.

PizzamanIRL

Just a warning to whoever starts the 2015/16 season thread - look at the status of the last 2 season thread creators :pac:

Anyway, here's a nice GIF of old man Kobe locking down LBJ last night. Too little too late though.

http://gfycat.com/FaroffImmaterialBovine

padraig_f

PizzamanIRL wrote: »

Just a warning to whoever starts the 2015/16 season thread - look at the status of the last 2 season thread creators :pac:

Anyway, here's a nice GIF of old man Kobe locking down LBJ last night. Too little too late though.

http://gfycat.com/FaroffImmaterialBovine

DRD is banned now? What did he do?

padraig_f

Remember the Spoelstra bump?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNgf6fd88g8

Another difference between Miami and Cleveland is Miami had a strong character in Pat Riley, who had Spoelstra's back.

Not sure Cleveland has anyone like that for Blatt. The GM came out in support of him a few weeks ago, but I wonder how deep that is. Particularly with the leverage Lebron has created with his 2-year contract/1-year opt-out.

NufcNavan

First Mo Williams, now Brandon Jennings is going crazy against the Pacers. Hitting long shot after long shot.

NufcNavan

Oh my goodness. That was hard to take. Pacers were robbed by a terrible call. Tie game, Hibbert backing down in the post with about 23 seconds left, Drummond sells a terrible flop and gets the offensive foul.

Next play, Jennings makes the drive and misses and who else but Drummond tips it in.

Hard to take. Pacers have zero luck at the moment.

ButtersSuki

NufcNavan wrote: »

First Mo Williams, now Brandon Jennings is going crazy against the Pacers. Hitting long shot after long shot.

In fairness to Jennings, he hit 55 as a rookie.:eek:

Paully D

29 and 10 for Derrick Rose last night. He had looked quite passive the majority of the time I had got the chance to watch him this season, but he's now averaging 17.9 and 5 this season, not too far away from his career average of 20.5 and 6.6, along with becoming more aggressive. His FG% is down to around 41% from his career 45%, but he's also taking 5.3 3 point attempts per game in comparison to his 2.8 career average. He's also playing 6 minutes fewer per game this season compared to his career minutes average.

It'll still take time, but I'm getting more and more confident that he can get back to being close to his explosive best. I'm sure he'll feel better and more confident in himself (and his knee) the longer the season goes on.

buyer95 wrote: »

2 things spring to mind reading this. Firstly Woj has held a grudge against LeBron for years, and does not hide his disdain for him here so I'd take it with a pinch of salt. Woj goes over the top in this article with the LeBron bashing. Also, not to sound condescending our anything, but Woj is a great trade reporter. He know's stuff before anyone else, and he breaks more trades than anyone else. But that doesn't mean that he understands the game as well as other NBA writers do.

Secondly, the is one big difference betwee the flailing Cavs of this season and the underperforming Heat of that season. That is that the Heat could play defense, one cannot understate how good Bosh is on defense compared to Love who is just beyond awful in that regard. The Cavs have not shown the ability to play defense at anywhere near a championship level, with Miami the defense was there more or less from the start.

Yep, check my edit. I literally just edited that in about Woj hating LeBron due to not being able to get the access to him that he craved, just as you were typing your post out. Great minds.

me and the biz

I think the biggest difference is Pat Riley, he didn't let Lebron push him around whereas he seems to have a free reign in Cleveland. That whole Tristan Thompson (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/14/report-tristan-thompson-turned-down-four-year-52-million-contract-extension-with-cavaliers/) contract thing is worrying when they were offering Thompson well above his worth to appease Lebron.

pat riley was the key as myself and ec18 said jackson/auerbach/riley and pop have been involved in over half the nba championship wins having one of them in an organisation to control a player like lebron is huge now he's like a child king just doing whatever he wants with nobody to stop him

GoldFour4

padraig_f wrote: »

DRD is banned now? What did he do?

Site ban from boards for something he did in after hours, he'll be back around the 13th of Feb i think. Nothing to do with this forum.

NufcNavan

What do yous think lads? Very soft call on the first play. Drummond is 6'11 and 290 pounds btw.

astonaidan

Just booked my second NBA game, one of the few perks about living in Toronto

Paully D

NufcNavan wrote: »

What do yous think lads? Very soft call on the first play. Drummond is 6'11 and 290 pounds btw.

Definite flop. I'm sure he'll gladly pay the $5,000 though, money well spent!

PizzamanIRL

Yeah looks like a flop. In the slow mo you can see Andre doesn't instantly fall down.

Then again I don't know what it's like to be bumped by someone as big as Hibbert.

NufcNavan

Hibbert didn't extend the arm into Drummond's chest, plus you can see Drummond look towards the ref before he hits the deck. Sure sign of a flop.

As you said Paully it's money well spent but I doubt he'll get a fine. Just a shame it had a huge impact on the outcome on the game.

D2D

NufcNavan wrote: »

What do yous think lads? Very soft call on the first play. Drummond is 6'11 and 290 pounds btw.

Definite flop, incredibly harsh call

padraig_f

NufcNavan wrote: »

What do yous think lads? Very soft call on the first play. Drummond is 6'11 and 290 pounds btw.

Not a refereeing experty by any stretch, I'd say it's soft, but technically an offensive foul. Looking at the rule...

b. If a defender is able to establish a legal position in the straight line path of the dribbler, the dribbler must avoid contact by changing direction or ending his dribble.

Drummond has position and Hibbert initiates contact. Drummond does exaggerate contact by going to ground, but contact was made.

Do you want to encourage that, I dunno. Interesting to see if Drummond does get a fine.

Soby

No discussion of westbrooks crazy interview last night ? . Thoughts?

While it was stupid and took away from the team and his amazing performance , he was asked a few stupid questions at the start and me persionally would have some pain the arse talking to reporters every night after a game when your tired and want your bed

NufcNavan

Answer the questions. Be a pro. These guys need to remember it's because of the media's hype of their careers is a major factor for them having such a large salary in the first place.

Same goes for Marshawn Lynch for the Seahawks. It's funny the first time around, after that you just look like a massive douche.

Paully D

Bulls lose another one at home last night. Missing Noah and Dunleavy, but the defense was concerning. Very strange seeing this Bulls team giving up so many points and losing so much at home, and similarly it's very strange seeing this Bulls team scoring so much and winning so much away! :pac:

The Hawks are now 33-8, and play 8 home games in the following 9 against teams such as the Pacers, Timberwolves, Nets, 76ers, Pistons and Pelicans. They could easily be going into the beginning of February with 40 wins and looking good for the #1 seed in the East.

Bulls play the Cavs next up which should be interesting.

On another note, I have a serious man crush on Kyle Korver.

D2D

Quick heads up that League Pass has a free trial from tomorrow until next Sunday so everyone can catch the MLK Day games on Monday:)

padraig_f

Paully D wrote: »

Bulls lose another one at home last night. Missing Noah and Dunleavy, but the defense was concerning. Very strange seeing this Bulls team giving up so many points and losing so much at home, and similarly it's very strange seeing this Bulls team scoring so much and winning so much away! :pac:

Yeah the defense is getting concerning. I was ready to excuse it early in the season with some new faces, but should be better by now. Wondering if players are starting to tune out Thibs. Stacey King had a number of illustrations on the telestrator of players being out of position and slow to rotate & help, even guys like Taj who've been there for years.

Kind of deflating at the end of the game when the Bulls scoring got them close. Crowd started chanting...

DEFENSE! DEFENSE!
*swish*

Next time down...

DEFENSE! DEFENSE!
*swish*

(less enthusiastic now) defense! defense!
*swish*

The Hawks were lights-out down the stretch to close it out. They look very well-coached, I guess Steve Kerr will get it, but Budenholzer should be a strong candidate for coach of the year.

ButtersSuki

The Hawks right now look like really legit contenders. They're playing Spurs-like basketball (no coincidence their coach is an ex-Spurs assistant); last night they have over 30 assists on 40 baskets. That's crazy and almost impossible to defend against. The only thing that can beat you if a team passes that well is if they miss their shots. I said it at the time and I've said it since, on more than one occasion (check my posts if you don't believe me) - letting Korver go to ATL was a big mistake on the Bulls part. And I'm not just talking offensively - defensively he's so big for his position he adds really problems in the passing lanes for offensive teams.

On another note, anyone see Steph Curry's steal and then no look behind the back flick pass (without gathering the ball) to Harrison Barnes last night? Insane skill level.

buyer95

malistheman wrote: »

Site ban from boards for something he did in after hours, he'll be back around the 13th of Feb i think. Nothing to do with this forum.

Maybe it's Stockholm syndrome but I actually miss his absurd/biased/passionate views on the NBA. For even though I often find myself disagreeing with what he posts, he really has a love for the game that I admire.

ButtersSuki

buyer95 wrote: »

Maybe it's Stockholm syndrome but I actually miss his absurd/biased/passionate views on the NBA. For even though I often find myself disagreeing with what he posts, he really has a love for the game that I admire.

Be careful what you wish for!

astonaidan

buyer95 wrote: »

Maybe it's Stockholm syndrome but I actually miss his absurd/biased/passionate views on the NBA. For even though I often find myself disagreeing with what he posts, he really has a love for the game that I admire.

This is your moment to step up Aidan, time to take centre stage :cool:
If Swaggy P doesnt win 6th man this year its a disgrace, bias against Lakers
#LakerNation

astonaidan

astonaidan wrote: »

This is your moment to step up Aidan, time to take centre stage :cool:
If Swaggy P doesnt win 6th man this year its a disgrace, bias against Lakers
#LakerNation

#rondo for mvp

jeff green for mvp

sully for mvp

GoldFour4

buyer95 wrote: »

Maybe it's Stockholm syndrome but I actually miss his absurd/biased/passionate views on the NBA. For even though I often find myself disagreeing with what he posts, he really has a love for the game that I admire.

Yeah he clearly is a huge basketball fan and is passionate about his team. He's been a fairly consistent contributor to this forum since I took over so hopefully he comes back. I'd really love a few more regular contributors!

Anyway, MOD hat on. We won't have any further discussion of banned posters