NBA Regular Season 14/15

ButtersSuki

Some dunk by JR Smith tonight against the Knicks.

Meanwhile Cleveland now up to 4th in the East and on current form will likely be the 2 seed come play off time. Interesting!

D2D

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Some dunk by JR Smith tonight against the Knicks.

Meanwhile Cleveland now up to 4th in the East and on current form will likely be the 2 seed come play off time. Interesting!

Unreal dunk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-_D4JQ1WM8

We probably won't get the 1 seed (think ATL are still too many games ahead) but Toronto in the 2 seed are only 3 and a half games in front of us and Chicago. We've a pretty tough week in front of us (heading to Detroit before hosting Golden State. We then head to Indy and then onto Houston) so we really need to win at least 3 of those

ButtersSuki

D2D wrote: »

Unreal dunk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-_D4JQ1WM8

We probably won't get the 1 seed (think ATL are still too many games ahead) but Toronto in the 2 seed are only 3 and a half games in front of us and Chicago. We've a pretty tough week in front of us (heading to Detroit before hosting Golden State. We then head to Indy and then onto Houston) so we really need to win at least 3 of those

Yeah, can't see Atlanta being caught but think they're (the Cavs) a good bet for the 2 spot now as they're on a roll and seem to have figured things out. Plus, with Perkins coming the front line will be huge with him and Mosgov. And tough.

ButtersSuki

You may remember before Christmas I posted on how the draft class of 2014 hadn't really delivered? si.com piece on it from today:

http://www.si.com/nba/2015/02/16/nba-rookies-2014-andrew-wiggins-jabari-parker-nikola-mirotic

Worth a read.

NufcNavan

Klay Thompson is a superb offensive talent, but he isn't the defensive player he is made out to be IMO.

Rodney stuckey has dropped back to back 30 point games off the bench LOL.

shamrock55

No 2 spot in the east (maybe even no 1 ) will be the raptors i think

"what do you mean you expect me to win games i dont have one (or two) of the greatest players of all time on this team yet"-phil jackson 2015 (maby)

Paully D

May have been common knowledge at the time, but found this interesting as a Bulls fan:

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/23/kobe-bryant-wanted-to-be-traded-from-lakers-to-bulls-in-2007/

Kobe Bryant requested a trade from the Lakers in 2007, and he really wanted out:

Asked if he had any preference for a trade destination, he said “At this point I’ll go play on Pluto.”

That wasn’t quite true, though.

The Lakers agreed to trade Kobe to the Pistons, but he used his no-trade clause to veto the deal, something he confirmed on The Grantland Basketball Hour.

Kobe:

I said, “I gave you a list of teams I’m comfortable being traded to. That wasn’t one of them. So, no.”

Chicago was my No. 1 choice.

The Bulls and Lakers tried to negotiate a trade with Luol Deng, Tyrus Thomas, Ben Gordon and Joakim Noah coming up as key pieces who could go to Los Angeles. But Kobe was wary of Chicago surrendering Deng and weakening his new team, and a deal never happened.

Kobe wasn’t traded to the Mavericks, another team that negotiated for him, either. He stayed with the Lakers and won a couple more championships.

But, wow, this is one heck of a “What if?”

Kobe would have put himself even further into Michael Jordan’s shadow, though that’s never something he feared, even once wanting to sign with Jordan’s Wizards. The Lakers would probably have two fewer championships. The Bulls, depending what they gave up, could have another. Derrick Rose would probably be somewhere else. The gap between the Western Conference and Eastern Conference might not be so pronounced.

If Kobe had gotten his wish, the entire NBA landscape would have changed. He’s that powerful.

It would be very interesting now to see what sort of impact that would have had on the NBA as a whole. I wish there was some way we could see the result of these hypothetical situations. :pac:

stuchyg

Anyone know what you get with the 6 quid NBA TV live package

Paully D

Here's the full Grantland Basketball Hour episode with Kobe. A good watch. I'm not sure how long it will stay up so get it while it's hot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzFYt3K1sqg

Paully D

ButtersSuki wrote: »

You may remember before Christmas I posted on how the draft class of 2014 hadn't really delivered? si.com piece on it from today:

http://www.si.com/nba/2015/02/16/nba-rookies-2014-andrew-wiggins-jabari-parker-nikola-mirotic

Worth a read.

I know the draft pool is relatively small, but it's mad (or maybe not at all really :pac:) how many busts there are in the NBA draft each year IMO.

I was doing a bit of comparison on the American football forum this time last year when someone was wondering how the top 10 draft picks in the NFL perform compared to their NBA counterparts, and I came up with the below based on my opinion (others may have it different and I admittedly just wrote the below back then after glancing at names so there may be errors, but anyway).

Last 10 years in the NBA I have:

2004 - One star franchise changer went #1 overall, 2 or 3 very good starters = 4 good picks.

2005 - One star (#4 overall), one who was a star for years but has regressed a lot in recent years (#3 overall), two very good starters = 4 good picks.

2006 - No stars, 2 very good starters.

2007 - One star (#2 overall), two very good starters (one who won DPOTY this year) = 3 good picks.

2008 - Two stars, arguably three (#1, #4, #5 overall), one very good starters = 4 good picks.

2009 - From here some players are still developing and will become stars, some arguably are already, but so far 5 very good picks

2010 - As above, but 2 very good picks so far

2011 - As above, but 1 very good pick so far

2012 - As above, but 4 very good picks so far

It's too early to judge 2013.

So overall, you're probably looking at a maximum of 4 good picks from the top 10 in a good season.

Generally I found that on average around 4 of the top 10 picks turn out to be successful picks, so that's 60% of top 10 picks IMO that don't work out or perform to the level expected of such a high pick. A frightening figure if your job is to make those decisions or if you're the fan of a team hoping to improve from a poor season with a high pick.

The late 1st round is extremely tough to hit on and 2nd round is largely just a waste of time. An absolute crapshoot full of players who have little to no impact or many that don't even play in the NBA at all.

Very, very difficult to build through the draft IMO. I was pretty optimistic that someone like the 76ers might be able to make use of their mountain of picks (4 first rounders and about 17 second rounders through 2020) and form a quality roster, but the trends suggest they're probably just wasting their time trying to build that way. Realistically, they might hit on 1 star and a few solid role players with that haul which seems outrageous on the face of things. Boston may fare much better at this strategy given that they have 8 firsts and 9 seconds through a similar time period but again, the trends suggest it would be a surprise.

Paully D

Paully D wrote: »

It would be very interesting now to see what sort of impact that would have had on the NBA as a whole. I wish there was some way we could see the result of these hypothetical situations. :pac:

i find the what if deals less interesting because in a guy like lobes case whoever he goes to loses the rest of there team. what i question more is what if deals that happened didn't happen

ie. what if kobe stayed in charlotte,shaq stayed in orlando,lebron had stayed in cleveland. would they have been able to build around there stars and would the lakers/magic have still been able to put winning teams together

me and the biz

Or if duncan was drafted by boston!

Edit
I mean if boston got the number 1 pick that year

me and the biz

me and the biz wrote: »

Or if duncan was drafted by boston!

or if len bias had lived thats a big one

scottmcb04

Rose out again and has to go for surgery! Jesus he has no luck...

No timetable for his return yet, but you would have to think chances aren't great for this season!

Paully D

Man oh man.

:(:(

ButtersSuki

If you get a chance check out the highlights of the GSW Wizards game last night. Curry throws in his usual quota of crazy 3's, but watch the two finger rolls he lands in the 2nd half off the dribble….insane touch.

Horrible news on Rose, really throws the Bulls into a quandary now.

GoldFour4

Sounds awful and I know the Bulls fans have some great memories of him......but I think its time for the Bulls to look towards the future without Rose. You can't continue to build a team with the vision that "this team will be insane if Derrick stays healthy".

ButtersSuki

Paully D wrote: »

I know the draft pool is relatively small, but it's mad (or maybe not at all really :pac:) how many busts there are in the NBA draft each year IMO.

I was doing a bit of comparison on the American football forum this time last year when someone was wondering how the top 10 draft picks in the NFL perform compared to their NBA counterparts, and I came up with the below based on my opinion (others may have it different and I admittedly just wrote the below back then after glancing at names so there may be errors, but anyway).

Last 10 years in the NBA I have:



Generally I found that on average around 4 of the top 10 picks turn out to be successful picks, so that's 60% of top 10 picks IMO that don't work out or perform to the level expected of such a high pick. A frightening figure if your job is to make those decisions or if you're the fan of a team hoping to improve from a poor season with a high pick.

The late 1st round is extremely tough to hit on and 2nd round is largely just a waste of time. An absolute crapshoot full of players who have little to no impact or many that don't even play in the NBA at all.

Very, very difficult to build through the draft IMO. I was pretty optimistic that someone like the 76ers might be able to make use of their mountain of picks (4 first rounders and about 17 second rounders through 2020) and form a quality roster, but the trends suggest they're probably just wasting their time trying to build that way. Realistically, they might hit on 1 star and a few solid role players with that haul which seems outrageous on the face of things. Boston may fare much better at this strategy given that they have 8 firsts and 9 seconds through a similar time period but again, the trends suggest it would be a surprise.

Nice piece Paully.

There is one additional factor however in that some team(s) may use their picks as bait to a team to land a superstar. I expect this is figuring in the Celtics thinking given their previous in this area and Ainge's willingness to make the moves few others would consider. I can't see Philly doing this however, but I could be wrong.

The NBA is a superstar league, and one true superstar can mean the difference between a championship or being merely a good team. In no other pro team sports can one player have such an influence on a team's performance than in Basketball.

Totally agree with your core point that the draft is overvalued but like a guy buying a lottery ticket every week teams just think this time it will be different when statistically the odds are against them.

As much as I hate the "Superfriends" team best personified by the Heat, teams will have a far better chance of winning it all going this route than the draft - BUT - only if they can secure a true superstar - a true top 5 player - to add to an existing strong roster. I'm not talking about a Melo here (sorry Knicks fans).

NufcNavan

malistheman wrote: »

Sounds awful and I know the Bulls fans have some great memories of him......but I think its time for the Bulls to look towards the future without Rose. You can't continue to build a team with the vision that "this team will be insane if Derrick stays healthy".

Bulls are screwed with salary until 2017 I think.

Carcharodon

scottmcb04 wrote: »

Rose out again and has to go for surgery! Jesus he has no luck...

No timetable for his return yet, but you would have to think chances aren't great for this season!

Realistically, I think Rose will never fullfill his potential, its not that he won't come back from it from each time it happens he loses a little step and he can't gain any momentum in his career.
Its very sad to see a player this good get such a raw deal.
Bulls have to start building a team without him as their core.

NufcNavan

Interesting to note, Rose only played one game this year where his minutes topped 35 from October 29 to January 12. Since January 12 however, Rose has played EIGHT games where his minutes went over 35. Including 3 games where his minutes went over 40.....


THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIBS

padraig_f

Surprised to see the Rose news this morning, because he appeared to finish the game against the Bucks the other night ok. He did slip at one point chasing a ball going out of bounds, but got up again and I thought nothing more of it.

In truth, the injury is more a blow for Rose than the team. He hasn't been playing great. He's had flashes of his old form, but nothing consistent. I've probably given an overly positive view of his season so far on here, because when he's had bad games (which are not infrequent) I haven't had the heart to write about it too much, but I have been frustrated watching it.

He'll have one good game, then another game he'll be reluctant to drive, shooting jump-shots, or half-driving and passing, which isn't really what he's best at. It frustrates me because it looks like he's choosing not to drive, but I suppose you don't know if he's experiencing physical discomfort or what.

As the season went on I was more and more pessimistic about the Bulls being a championship contender, even if he was healthy. It wasn't the old Derrick Rose, and the team was pretty good, but not the dominant type of team you need to be to contend for a championship. The East is so wide open I thought they had a chance to win that, but couldn't see them beating a top team from the West.

Maybe Rose and the team would've got better in the last 30 games and into the playoffs, but that was more hope than expectation. We certainly hadn't seen championship form in the first 50 games. Losing Rose now is a blow, but in truth it's not nearly the blow it was when he first tore his ACL.

For him, hopefully he can get back again this season (meniscus tear can be as short as 6 weeks), another long rehab would be really tough on him. If we never see the old D. Rose again, he can still be a good player and make a contribution to the Bulls.

padraig_f

NufcNavan wrote: »

Interesting to note, Rose only played one game this year where his minutes topped 35 from October 29 to January 12. Since January 12 however, Rose has played EIGHT games where his minutes went over 35. Including 3 games where his minutes went over 40.....


THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIBS

He was on a minutes restriction for much of the season, came off it a few weeks ago, guess it was around mid-Jan. Thibs isn't to blame here. Rose had a week off for the all-star break, the Bucks game was the 3rd game back, and he played 33 mins. You should be able to play 33 mins.

buyer95

Saw an interesting post on reddit earlier.

Kevin Durant, Kobe Bryant, Paul George, Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh, Derrick Rose, Blake Griffin, Anthony Davis and Dwight Howard are all currently injured.

The NBA is still amazing right now,Harden, Westbrook, and Curry have been unbelievable not to mention LeBron. It begs the question whether the schedule is too demanding.

LeBron has played 2 seasons more than anybody else in the last decade and has missed only like 10 games total.The guy sat for 2 weeks and the world nearly had a heart attack, he is just a machine.

padraig_f

buyer95 wrote: »

Saw an interesting post on reddit earlier.

Kevin Durant, Kobe Bryant, Paul George, Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh, Derrick Rose, Blake Griffin, Anthony Davis and Dwight Howard are all currently injured.

The NBA is still amazing right now,Harden, Westbrook, and Curry have been unbelievable not to mention LeBron. It begs the question whether the schedule is too demanding.

82 games is too long. You don't need that many to decide the post-season contestants. Not sure why it was originally 82 games, but it's only retained now for money purposes imo. I think they should see the bigger picture on that, you improve the quality of the game if you reduce the number of games. Make each game matter more. Improve the quality of the post-season, with more players making it to it healthy. The NFL has 16 regular season games and they seem to be doing ok.

Soby

Sad how many players have had a injury plagued season. And rose,...again.. Feel for him. But maybe karma for not sitting your SAT's :P

me and the biz

The nfl are looking to increase amount of games though. I think it'd be impossible to decrease it with so much money tied to tv. it is mental the amount of games especially back to backs all over the place and the distances covered.

Paully D

Agree with those who say the season is far too long. I love the game but it does get a little bit tedious with so many games and often by the time the playoffs come around I'm a little burnt out, so God knows how the players feel!

One of the more enjoyable regular seasons for me over the last number of years was the 2011-2012 lockout season. I feel ~60-65 games would be ideal, but spread out more unlike the lockout season where teams were forced to play 2 extra games per month and 11 teams playing back-to-back-to-backs. There's no way that the cream still doesn't rise to the top with that amount of games.

I would also love to see the playoff format changed. I know this would never happen and is likely not even logistically possible due to changes in schedule during the regular season that would be needed to make it fair, but I love to see the conferences done away with for the purposes of more "deserving" teams making the big dance. Top 16 teams regardless of conference/division go through.

padraig_f

me and the biz wrote: »

The nfl are looking to increase amount of games though. I think it'd be impossible to decrease it with so much money tied to tv. it is mental the amount of games especially back to backs all over the place and the distances covered.

That'd be a short-sighted mistake too. Maybe in the short term they're thinking more games = more money, but long-term you're diluting the product. The NFL season-structure is great as it is (for me the best season structure in any sport). The direction they're going isn't one to be followed though. If they go to 18 regular-season games/14-team playoff, they'll have really damaged that structure.

Paully D wrote: »

I would also love to see the playoff format changed. I know this would never happen and is likely not even logistically possible due to changes in schedule during the regular season that would be needed to make it fair, but I love to see the conferences done away with for the purposes of more "deserving" teams making the big dance. Top 16 teams regardless of conference/division go through.

Silver has mentioned this, and I think it is a good idea:
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/14/adam-silver-discusses-potential-changes-to-playoff-system-at-nbas-all-star-weekend/

I think Silver is progressive and does see the bigger picture just from things he's said. I guess in practical terms you can't change things overnight, but I'm optimistic we will see some positive change in this and the lottery system over the next few years.

In the meantime though it is worth pointing out the negatives, like marquee players not making it to the playoffs. It's been a bad year for rookie injuries too with Parker and Randle going out.