Landlord Charging A Lot Higher Than Market Rent

LifeInDublin

Hi folks,

Today I was browsing the PRTB website and I noticed a section on the site whereas you can check current market rent prices for your area for the previous half-year or quarter year. I wasn't entirely shocked but a bit surprised to see that I'm paying almost €300 a month more than the market rent for 2014 - Quarter 2.

I then read the RESIDENTIAL TENANCIES ACT 2004 .pdf, and there are laws regarding landlords not being allowed to charge higher than market rent. But the laws seem to refer to either the initial setting of the rent price, and then any subsequent reviews of the rent price (ie after a 6 or 12 month period).

So I then searched a property website and found a couple of almost identical properties in my apartment complex for €250 less per month than mine.

I'll admit, I was stupid and naive to sign a 12 month lease for such a high price before checking market rents for similar properties.

I know I can ask the landlord nicely to lower the rent, even though I have only been here 5 minutes, but I already envisage his answer being no. I could deal with paying slightly higher than the market rent, even up to €100 a month higher, but €300 a month more, I feel really ripped off.

So, my questions -
1. Am I legally entitled to request that the landlord lower the rent to somewhere resembling the current market rent?
2. Would PRTB side with me if I opened a dispute?
3. Or is it a case of win-some-lose-some and I'm legally bound to pay the agreed rent price here for the 12 months lease period?

I know I run the risk of angering the landlord and facing a possible 28 day notice of eviction as I've been here less than 6 months, but I'll have to gamble that the landlord wouldn't want the hassle of re-advertisement, loss of rent between period of eviction and finding new tenant, etc.

Any reply, positive or negative, appreciated.

murphaph

You have no case as it was a new tenancy. Caveat Emptor.

xper

If you have just signed a 12 month lease then you have effectively agreed to the asked monthly rate willingly so my answers to your questions would be
1) No. You can ask and point out the other similar properties but the lanlord would not be obliged to make any change.
2) Probably not. The rules for opening a rent review dispute are designed around a rent change for an incumbent tenant. The ll must give advance notice of the change and the dispute must effectively be opened before the change comes into effect. I can't see how a dispute raised shortly after an initial lease was signed could be entertained even if the rent amount is clearly out of whack.
3) yeah, you'll have to suck it up, me thinks.

However, you cannot be issued a notice to vacate under the first six months rule of a Part 4 Tenancy unless the the fixed term lease you have signed explicitly allows this. A fixed term lease usually confers additional security of tenure. So you can make a decision on whether to raise the topic with the landlord. While there are lots of horror stories on this forum, many landlords are, surprise, surprise, perfectly decent people and yours just might not feel good about charging a genuinely unfair rate if the evidence is clearly there. Or they might laugh in your face. Your call!

K.Flyer

LifeInDublin wrote: »

.
.....
I'll admit, I was stupid and naive to sign a 12 month lease for such a high price before checking market rents for similar properties.

Yup!

LifeInDublin wrote: »

I know I can ask the landlord nicely to lower the rent, even though I have only been here 5 minutes, but I already envisage his answer being no.

Most likely No, if you are paying that much over the going rate you could consider breaking the contract, loosing your deposit and move on.

LifeInDublin wrote: »

I could deal with paying slightly higher than the market rent, even up to €100 a month higher, but €300 a month more, I feel really ripped off.

There is an old saying... "Act in haste, repent at leisure"

LifeInDublin wrote: »

So, my questions -
1. Am I legally entitled to request that the landlord lower the rent to somewhere resembling the current market rent?

You can ask, but he is under no obligation to consider it.

LifeInDublin wrote: »

2. Would PRTB side with me if I opened a dispute?

Definitely not

LifeInDublin wrote: »

3. Or is it a case of win-some-lose-some and I'm legally bound to pay the agreed rent price here for the 12 months lease period?

Yes and Yes unless your landlord agrees to change it or you break the lease.

athtrasna

Bear in mind that Q2 is four months ago, rents have been increasing month on month so that data is out of date. One or two properties on Daft don't dictate market rate either. I think you just have up suck it up in this case OP

cerastes

athtrasna wrote: »

Bear in mind that Q2 is four months ago, rents have been increasing month on month so that data is out of date. One or two properties on Daft don't dictate market rate either. I think you just have up suck it up in this case OP

OP, I had a look at the PRTB "market rate" and it was nowhere near what was being asked in a few areas, apart from the information looking like it could be dated, I dont even believe when its current that its accurate.

On the otherhand, does your rental have some other feature, size, location etc that may add to its worth which increases the asking price?

wyndham

Your rent is the market rate. Something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Given the situation in Dublin at the moment, I presume there were others vying for the apartment willing to pay the same. The other apartments are currently below market rate.

hfallada

That prtb market rate is a joke. Firstly it doesn't take into account the quality of the property. You could have a luxury apartment in the ifsc and some slum on Parnell square. But yet they should have the same market rate? Obviously not, but quality and size isn't taken into account by prtb

Secondly LLs may under declare of their income to the prtb. As there is fear they may pass on info to revenue. This isnt taken into account by the prtb.

Thirdly not all tenancies are registered with the prtb and who blames LLs. They offer no protection to LLs, make it impossible to evict tenants and you have to pay to register a for a fee.

Looking at other properties on daft is a better indication of the true market rate. But the market rate is what people are willingly going to pay.

The_Conductor

As you are a new tenant- the fact that you were willing to pay X amount (whatever it may be)- irrespective of what other tenants in the building may have previously paid- means you have set a new market rent..........

When the rent comes up for review (after 12 months)- any review must be in keeping with market rates- however, there is nothing to say that what you're paying won't be reflected in the wider market at that stage.............

You do need to do your homework- before you spend large sums of money on accommodation. The landlord may have opportunistically increased their asking rent- in the expectation that someone would come along and pay it- and you have walked straight into their arms.

There is no just reason for lodging a complaint- or even asking for a reduction- its a new tenancy- its what you have signed up to...........

ffactj

Your landlord doesnt have to review the rent after 12 months either if he doesnt want to.
So I doubt there is any chance of a downward review.

You'll probably have to move out if you arent happy with the rent then.

irlirishkev

That calculator will also take into account sh1tty little bedsits etc, which will bring the average rate down.

The calculator also doesn't take (for example) parking into account, which can add 100euro on to rent in some cases.

Check what other properties in your area are being advertised for on daft.ie, obviously you don't know what they'll actually rent for, but it'll give you an idea.

Tigger

that's an earned €7,500 a year you think you are overpaying

seems unlikely did you shop around>

desertcircus

You're kind of goosed legally; the landlord isn't obliged to reduce your rent. If you're a good tenant and have been there a while, though, it might be worth your while asking him if he'd be willing to consider reducing the rent in return for you signing for another year at the new rate from this month.

xper

ffactj wrote: »

Your landlord doesnt have to review the rent after 12 months either if he doesnt want to.
So I doubt there is any chance of a downward review.

Actually, a tenant has the right to request a rent review after twelve months have passed since the rent was last reviewed/set. If the landlord does not comply or the tenant considers the proposed reviewed amount to be too much, they can roll the dice and refer the matter to the PRTB. At that point you have to consider likelihood of a successful downward correction versus pissing off your landlord.

LifeInDublin

Thanks for each and every response, much appreciated. I guess I'll have to stick with it for the time being, and I'll have to resist the urge the check on daft every week to see if other apartments in my building are being rented out for 200-300 cheaper per month than mine.

Probably shouldn't have rushed into signing the 12 month lease, but I was kinda desperate and anxious because I wanted to stay in the same building, and this was the only one available with two weeks to go before my eviction from the previous apartment.

Thanks.

cerastes

LifeInDublin wrote: »

Thanks for each and every response, much appreciated. I guess I'll have to stick with it for the time being, and I'll have to resist the urge the check on daft every week to see if other apartments in my building are being rented out for 200-300 cheaper per month than mine.

Probably shouldn't have rushed into signing the 12 month lease, but I was kinda desperate and anxious because I wanted to stay in the same building, and this was the only one available with two weeks to go before my eviction from the previous apartment.

Thanks.

Did you try negotiate at the time? was the landlord the one that wanted the fixed term? if they did and this was still the rent, it may better reflect the rent now for a number of reasons. The move may have saved you other costs at the time of rental, like increased inconvenience costs like commuting or moving costs, or may have saved you time of commuting, maybe not as much as the full value of the rent and depending how much you value time. As you say also, at the time of renting there were no other properties, this itself can push up the demand for property and the amount it can be rented for, maybe there was a lot of demand for the property.