First time landlord - The bad and the ugly crazy tenant nighmares

eriepeking

Hi all, It is 3 in the morning and it has taken me quite a bit of thought before writing this post. I had stayed strong during this time. But I need advises on situations that I am about to describe.

My husband and I bought our first house this summer and has decided to rent three of our rooms out. From a friend's recommendation, we had two international students staying with us from late august to end of may next yr. In the first two months, I tried my best to assist them in anyway I can, I give them lifts to college sometimes, drove them to the visa office, pick up food for them in shops, write official documentations for them. Last week the nightmare has started.

When I sent a text msg to one of my the student ask whether I can enter her room to close the window ( it was at 2 in the afternoon and the window has been open since morning), and I follow up text her saying if she s back soon, then I d just leave the windows and go out. She replied that she s coming back straight away. I was then back home further in the afternoon, seeing windows still remained open, to prove that I can see her window open from our backyard, I went out and took a picture and sent it to her. I then texted her asking about the window. She replied back accusing me have entered her room.

I have then trying to explain to her that I don't need to enter her room to see the window is open, she then started using words that intimidates me. I sensed a strong distrust and I said to her if she wants to leave, please let me know as soon as possible. Then she started asking her full deposit back.

It was extremely hard to explain the Irish renting system, the law and sometimes even common sense. She then consistently being very rude, intimidating and very unpleasant. I text her saying I don't appreciate the way she talks to me and wish she can stop the intimidation. She then followed up telling me to learn my Irish law first before talking to her. So I asked if she is still not using the right manner to talk? She text a big 'YES' back to me.

On the same night and the night following she and her other tenant friend asked to 'HAVE A TALK' with me and my husband. Then the intimidation is on again. So below are some of her requests that she wants us to satisfy her:

1. My husband and I can only take showers between certain hours and is not allowed to turn it on, because the electric shower is too loud! (Between our bedroom and hers , there is a hot press and a large main bathroom and a full size built in wardrobe)

2. She needs her room window open in all day time, regardless she is in or out of the house. Then her room temperature has to remain at 23degree C through the whole time even with her window open!

3. She said she hated talking to me and I can never talk to her or text her or contact her. She is going to filter me out! The only way if I want to tell her anything is to through my husband.

4. All the evidence I have collected against her does not count as evidence unless it has been certified by her college, or government. ( I have taken the picture of her unclosed window and she says it is not a solid evidence?!?!?! WHAT??????)

5. Any rules that the landlord did not write on the lease does not count as a rule and she can do anything she wants as long as it was not written on the lease. I have no way on saying anything about her.

6. The landlord does not have the rights on making household rules. She pays the money and she is the person that needs to make the rules, any rules I make does not count in her world.

7. She has already told me she wanted to move out, then she regret it saying it was only her 'thought' and it doesn't count. She also has said in front of me, my husband and her friend that she is going to move out in another occasion, then regret it saying it was only her 'intention' and intention does not count. She then finally said she wants a to move out just before christmas and find someone to replace her. But if she doesn't find anyone to replace her, she is going to stay in my house in her own will. I have signed a lease with her initially. In the lease, it states if a tenant cannot fulfill the whole contract term, it is a loss to the landlord, deposit is not refundable. (Our house is near a big uni and from back experience in searching for a roommate replacement after october being extremely difficult, we think we d be losing out money and that is why tenants have to fulfill their contract period or they lose the deposit.)

8. She wanted to write me as her emergency contact and I stupid enough agreed when she moved in. This week, I have told her that she needs to change her emergency contact to someone else. She refuses and said I don't have a choice to not be her emergency contact and I can not contact her insurance company. (What a joke!!)

9. She said any text message sent between me and her,will not be read carefully and it will be my fault that there are messages that she has missed to interpret. (I told her that this is a part of negligence and obviously she disagrees and saying negligence is not a breach of law.....)

10. Cleaning kitchen and living room floor is the duty of landlord. And she has always thought so! Even when the floor is dirty with her hair and food.....

And then it goes on and on and on.... In the end she had 12 points that wanted us to satisfy her!! When she was looking at the unclosed window picture, she actually said to me that the window in the picture is closed!!! I can not believe how unreal that is, it was a wide open window and she is saying she can't see it!!! And she told me that is not an evidence ??? WHAT???? I said no to her about all these ridiculous points, but she said she is going to apply them anyways, regardless of what I said.

I have stayed strong but very angry through all these crazy points!!! Can anyone please help me ! Can I sue her? She s only stayed for 2 months, and she is asking for her deposit back! But I have been intimidated by her in so many ways. I can not believe how she has behaved like a 2 yr old.

Ken.

If you are a live in landlord you can boot anyone out at any time as they are licencee's.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/home_owners/rent_a_room_scheme.html

If you rent out a room in your home, you are not covered by landlord and tenant legislation so the rights and obligations under that legislation do not apply to you. For example, you are not obliged to register as a landlord with the Private Residential Tenancies Board (PRTB), provide a rent book to the tenant or ensure that the accommodation provided meets any minimum physical standards.

This also means that private tenants living in your home are living under alicensee agreement,not a tenancy agreement, and are really only entitled to reasonable notice if you choose to terminate the agreement. Tenants are, however, entitled to refer disputes to the Small Claims Court.

moc moc a moc

eriepeking wrote: »

I can not believe how she has behaved like a 2 yr old.

She's not the only one.

eriepeking

Hi Ken,

Thanks so much for the quick reply! We have been looking into this. Can I just say she is being an unpleasant tenant and please go tomorrow? Do I need to return her deposit and thinking I am just unlucky She then gets it away so easy and thinking she has won it all?? Thank you !!

ABajaninCork

Give them one week's notice. Put it in writing in their own language since you speak it.

Tell them it's not negotiable and not up for discussion. Point out if they don't leave, you're entitled to put their stuff on the street. Give them back the deposit and leave it at that.

indigo twist

No you can't sue her. But as an owner-occupier, you could theoretically ask her to leave without notice. In your position, I'd give her two weeks notice, return the full deposit (assuming no damage done), and change the locks. And I'd read up on owner-occupier rights and responsibilities before taking on any more tenants.

timetogo

Don't worry about the emergency contact thing. Its for her benefit to have somebody she trusts on it. If she doesn't want to change it and you ever get contacted you have no obligation to do anything.

Did she sign a lease with you. Does it mention a notice period. If so, give that notice tomorrow. In writing. Get your husband to do it if she only wants to deal with him. At the end of the notice inspect the room. If everything is fine then get the keys back and then give the deposit back and move on and just advertise the room again. Of course you have to return the deposit if there's no damage done to the place and her rent is up to date. You'll probably have it rented out again within a week. It's good that she wants the deposit back. It means she wants to move out. Life's too short to be renting out to somebody who's giving you stress.

One problem you had is assuming that she would clean up after herself. Id assume that too but some people need everything spelled out for them. Do out a list of rules for the next tenant and agree them before they give a deposit.

She doesn't sound like a nightmare. Just somebody who isn't used to the real world yet. Might be her first time living away from home and probably gettin crappy advice from her friends. That's not your problem.

Dr Turk Turkelton

You and your wife need to man up, pack her bags for her and put her on the side of the street fairly sharp.
Get the locks changed then.

Thewife

Serve her notice and give her back her deposit .. I rented a room years ago to what can only be described as a nightmare ... Came home from
Work every day to the kitchen being a scene from a war movie (tenant didn't work so had all day to make lots of mess) ended up eating my dinner out most days as in order to eat at home Id have to clean her mess ...mess was there for so long had to throw away most of my pots and pans as the food and burn couldn't be removed .... Most days also came home to a strange man who she found on tele text dating .. Coming home to a strange man everyday who is sprawled out on your sofa was to much for me to handle ... She had to go !!!

handlemaster

Get rid.
Had french student before like that. No talking to someone like that with one brain cell. Give one week at most to get out.

The_Conductor

She is *not* a tenant- and tenancy law doesn't apply to her.
She is staying with you and your husband, in your house, under license, and can be asked to leave at any time.
I would advise giving her a week's notice- and giving her her deposit back in full.

Unfortunately international students often have unreasonable expectations- she probably thinks she is a tenant and tenancy law applies- well, even if she were, and tenancy law did apply- you could still ask her to leave within the first 6 months- without reason- however this is not the case.

She has no rights. Tell her to get out.

eriepeking

Thewife wrote: »

Serve her notice and give her back her deposit .. I rented a room years ago to what can only be described as a nightmare ... Came home from
Work every day to the kitchen being a scene from a war movie (tenant didn't work so had all day to make lots of mess) ended up eating my dinner out most days as in order to eat at home Id have to clean her mess ...mess was there for so long had to throw away most of my pots and pans as the food and burn couldn't be removed .... Most days also came home to a strange man who she found on tele text dating .. Coming home to a strange man everyday who is sprawled out on your sofa was to much for me to handle ... She had to go !!!

That sounds like another one that lives in her own world. I never thought it is this difficult when i was sharing houses with other people. But I guess the chance of getting a bad tenant is still really high

eriepeking

timetogo wrote: »

.She doesn't sound like a nightmare. Just somebody who isn't used to the real world yet. Might be her first time living away from home and probably gettin crappy advice from her friends. That's not your problem.

Very much so and i think I have become the cushion for her cultural shock in many ways.I d think twice next time if my new tenant is first time living outside of her country.

eriepeking

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Give them one week's notice. Put it in writing in their own language since you speak it.

Tell them it's not negotiable and not up for discussion. Point out if they don't leave, you're entitled to put their stuff on the street. Give them back the deposit and leave it at that.

Hi ABajaninCork,

I will eventually get her out ! The only thing is it is soo hard to tell her what law has entitled me. Even if I show her the exact info on citizeninformation.ie! she takes it as a joke ! Or she tells me her english is too poor to understand it. ( yet she is in 4th yr uni in Ireland) When i take the route of neither explaining nor discussions, she tells me i am being unreasonable and she is going to ignore what i have informed her.

I know regardless what she thinks she is getting kicked out. But I guess it will be the hard way after the notice period, i.e. lock changed, stuff on the street!

El_Duderino 09

Sounds like a nightmare OP.

Maybe she has servants at home, maybe she is deluded about the real world and maybe she knows she is taking you for a ride.
Either way she sounds like a bully. If, the others suggest, she is not a tenant or covered by tenancy law and you decide to evict her, expect her to turn from tiger to kitten. Expect snot and tears and promises that she is sooooo sorry. Just be firm and explain that you took her advice and became familiar with the law.

If she is that concerned about the deposit you could tell her to keep herself to herself and behave and if there is no damage or undue disruption in the notice period then she will get her full deposit back.

Hope it works out

Arbiter of Good Taste

eriepeking wrote: »

Hi ABajaninCork,

I will eventually get her out ! The only thing is it is soo hard to tell her what law has entitled me. Even if I show her the exact info on citizeninformation.ie! she takes it as a joke ! Or she tells me her english is too poor to understand it. ( yet she is in 4th yr uni in Ireland) When i take the route of neither explaining nor discussions, she tells me i am being unreasonable and she is going to ignore what i have informed her.

I know regardless what she thinks she is getting kicked out. But I guess it will be the hard way after the notice period, i.e. lock changed, stuff on the street!

B1tches be mad!

Seriously though, she's taking you for a fool. Get her out ASAP and let her have her deposit provided she hasn't done damage

Dr Turk Turkelton

eriepeking wrote: »

Hi ABajaninCork,

I will eventually get her out ! The only thing is it is soo hard to tell her what law has entitled me. Even if I show her the exact info on citizeninformation.ie! she takes it as a joke ! Or she tells me her english is too poor to understand it. ( yet she is in 4th yr uni in Ireland) When i take the route of neither explaining nor discussions, she tells me i am being unreasonable and she is going to ignore what i have informed her.

I know regardless what she thinks she is getting kicked out. But I guess it will be the hard way after the notice period, i.e. lock changed, stuff on the street!

You won't need perfect English to explain a black bag on the doorstep and new locks.

eriepeking

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

You won't need perfect English to explain a black bag on the doorstep and new locks.

When the black bags are out on the street, i ll post an update with picture!

Thank you so much for support !!

salamanca22

Here is what I would do.

First of all I would explain in plain english (You are in Ireland and have no obligation to explain in any other language) how she is not a tenant and that she does not have the protection of tenancy law. I would print out the relevant information on citizens information and hand this to her with a list of drafted rules you have come up with yourself. These might include that licensees are responsible for cleaning up after themselves and must keep common areas tidy, rules about guests and rules about having windows open. After the inevitable argument I would then give them 5 days to find somewhere else to live. After those five days if they are not gone yet I would give them two more days meanwhile letting them know they are trespassing on private property and the guards will be involved if she does not remove herself.

If it ends up she is not cooperative about leaving I would change the locks and remove the costs from the deposit. You have no reason to keep the rest of her deposit unless she causes you financial troubles as you are the one asking her to leave.

Best of luck with it OP.

Forest Demon

Give her the deposit back unless there is any damage to justify keeping it and give her a weeks notice but do stand by it. Dont take any grief and stand your ground.

athtrasna

By giving her a lease you have given her more rights than a rent a room agreement. I asked on here before I rented a room out and the unanimous advice was not to sign a lease with the person moving in.

If your lease has a break clause then you need to abide by that notice period rather than "reasonable notice "

seamus

eriepeking wrote: »

The only thing is it is soo hard to tell her what law has entitled me.

This is irrelevant really. It's not your responsibility to explain the law to her. If she doesn't know the law, that's her problem.

Your problem is that both you and your husband are too nice, you allow yourselves to be taken advantage of, and this lodger knows it. So do as others say and give her a few days notice and then the boot. If she gets the Gardai involved, they will assist you in throwing her out.

In future, avoid being excessively nice. Giving them lifts, buying food, doing work for them? Nah, what happens is that you find a student who takes you for a sucker and treats you like a parent, not a landlord.

By all means be nice and give them a lift - only if it happens to be on your way to where you're already going. If you're going shopping, offer to bring them with you and bring them home again, don't do their shopping for them. Help them localise themselves by offering advice, not by doing their documentation or making phone calls on their behalf.

And write up a set of house rules and make them clear for all lodgers. It's not a democracy, it's a dictatorship. Your house, your rules. Anyone who disagrees can leave. I know it seems easier for everything to be relaxed and laid back, but unless you treat this like a business arrangement, then you will be taken advantage of.

El_Duderino 09

Be sure to give her the deposit either by electronic transfer or get her to sign that she received it. You don't want her to claim she never received it and demand another deposit back

hfallada

athtrasna wrote: »

By giving her a lease you have given her more rights than a rent a room agreement. I asked on here before I rented a room out and the unanimous advice was not to sign a lease with the person moving in.

If your lease has a break clause then you need to abide by that notice period rather than "reasonable notice "

But a contact has to have a legal standing. You cant have a contract with a hit man to take out your neighbour, as contract killing is illegal. The same way you can have a contract with a licensee in your house, as they dont have rights like a regular tenant.

OP you arent a landlord and just some who has let a few rooms. You havent acted in a professional manner with the tenant. I dont know what the petty BS about the window is about. Its her room, let her do what ever with it, as long as it doesnt damage your property. I find people from the contitent have unreasonable standards when it comes to renting in Ireland. But I believe knowing the "landlord" isnt going to come into my room, to close the window for some stupid reason is something anyone can expect.

Letting rooms to people isnt for everyone

timetogo

hfallada wrote: »

Its her room, let her do what ever with it, as long as it doesnt damage your property.

Don't know about the ops house but if a window was left open all day in mine during the recent weather I'd have had rain damage.

Then there's the fact that the tenant wants to leave the window open all day whether she's in or out. In my house that'd be a problem with security. My alarm wouldn't turn on with an open window and I wouldn't be happy going out knowing that the window was left open.

Then there's the heating. The tenant wants the window open and the room heated to 23 degrees. Feck that.

ABajaninCork

Not to mention a nice little invitation to the burglars!

seamus

hfallada wrote: »

But a contact has to have a legal standing. You cant have a contract with a hit man to take out your neighbour, as contract killing is illegal. The same way you can have a contract with a licensee in your house, as they dont have rights like a regular tenant.

This is not correct. You're right in that a contract which agrees to perform illegal acts is void, but you're incorrect because renting out a room in your house is perfectly legal. Therefore any contract based on that, is also legal.
A contract is basically legal once all signatories to it have agreed to it. The only thing which a contract can't do is override the minimum rights set out in law.
Where there are no rights in law, a contract very much can give you new or additional ones.

However, we must be careful about the word "rights" here. Where a right exist in law, the state has the power to enforce those rights.
Where a right exists only in a contract, the state will not enforce those rights. So where a right in a contract is violated, it's a civil matter which requires a court case.

What this means in the case of renting is that if a tenant with exclusive residence of a property is evicted without following the due process, the Gardai can and will assist in getting that person back into their home.

Where a lodger (licensee) finds their stuff out on the street and the locks changed, the Gardai will not (cannot) help them get back into the property, regardless of what contract exists between the licensee and the property owner.

OP you arent a landlord and just some who has let a few rooms. You havent acted in a professional manner with the tenant. I dont know what the petty BS about the window is about. Its her room, let her do what ever with it, as long as it doesnt damage your property.

I find the contradiction between these two statements puzzling. She's not a landlord, yet you think she should act like one and let the lodger do what she wants provided it doesn't damage the property.

Aside from an open window potentially causing damage to the property by letting in heavy rain, it's also a big vent out which through any heat disappears. It's been colder and windy the last two weeks. Even with the door closed, an open window will let heat escape and cause doors and windows throughout the property to slam shut.

Greenmachine

Change the locks and refuse her unaccompanied entry to the house. Inform her she may only enter the house when she has found alternative accommodation, to remove her property. See if this will bring about a change of behaviour.

groovyg

Op did you advertise your rooms through the college accommodation office? If its not working out maybe get on to them as well.

Had you or your husband rented with other people before you bought your house? As this was your first time renting out rooms maybe you should have tried it for a semester as opposed to a full year to see if you like doing it.

eriepeking

hfallada wrote: »

But a contact has to have a legal standing. You cant have a contract with a hit man to take out your neighbour, as contract killing is illegal. The same way you can have a contract with a licensee in your house, as they dont have rights like a regular tenant.

OP you arent a landlord and just some who has let a few rooms. You havent acted in a professional manner with the tenant. I dont know what the petty BS about the window is about. Its her room, let her do what ever with it, as long as it doesnt damage your property. I find people from the contitent have unreasonable standards when it comes to renting in Ireland. But I believe knowing the "landlord" isnt going to come into my room, to close the window for some stupid reason is something anyone can expect.

Letting rooms to people isnt for everyone

Hi ,

I appreciate the post. Just to clarify that I have never entered her room. By looking from our backyard is more than sufficient to know that her window is wide open.

I totally agree its her room, but she only has the right in using it. She does not own it. When she s out of the house, she has her window wide open for potential theif to climb in and rob the whole house! I think this is a common sense that at least she should close the window when she is not in the house ! And that is the only thing i have asked. And she refused !

eriepeking

timetogo wrote: »

Don't know about the ops house but if a window was left open all day in mine during the recent weather I'd have had rain damage.

Then there's the fact that the tenant wants to leave the window open all day whether she's in or out. In my house that'd be a problem with security. My alarm wouldn't turn on with an open window and I wouldn't be happy going out knowing that the window was left open.

Then there's the heating. The tenant wants the window open and the room heated to 23 degrees. Feck that.

That is exactly how i felt ! She told me that there is a smell in her room that she can not tolerate. So me my husband, her friend and her other friend all went into her room under her permission and supervision to smell it out . We couldnt smell anything! And she opened her desk drawer saying there is a smell of new furniture inside there that is giving her a headache !

She told me to give her money to see a professional doctor for this headache ! Which of course i refused!

I cant smell it anyways and i have asked the chairman of our community to come in and smell it out ! Ha it will be funny! All 3 rooms we rent out has the same desk. Dont know what she is on about!