YBIG vs the FAI

CSF

Nobody here thinks that almost 20% of the tickets going to sponsors is ridiculous? I was expecting outrage at that but it seems to have almost gone under the radar

Fr Tod Umptious

CSF wrote: »

Nobody here thinks that almost 20% of the tickets going to sponsors is ridiculous? I was expecting outrage at that but it seems to have almost gone under the radar

600 tickets for sponsors and travel partners, so not 20% for sponsors alone as you are trying to infer.

Its 2014, sponsors are an important part of the running of such an organization. And sponsors tickets often filter down to "real" fans and are not just kept by "suits"

CSF

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

600 tickets for sponsors and travel partners, so not 20% for sponsors alone as you are trying to infer.

Its 2014, sponsors are an important part of the running of such an organization. And sponsors tickets often filter down to "real" fans and are not just kept by "suits"

That is still a bizarrely high percentage.

yabadabado

Fair play to lads on YBIG they have gotten this issue a lot of coverage and hope its the catalyst for positive change.

Fr Tod Umptious

CSF wrote: »

That is still a bizarrely high percentage.

Is it ?
What do you base it on ?

Plus we do not know the breakdown of the 600.
The majority may have gone to the travel agents.
And I know some folks don't like this reality but the travel agents do cater to the fans remember.

Zebra3

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I think the anger here should be towards the Scots and not the FAI

You think the Scottish FA are to blame for giving the FAI the number of tickets they are obliged to under UEFA's rules and/or the SFA are to blame for how the FAI have distributed them?

:rolleyes:

homerjay2005

CSF wrote: »

That is still a bizarrely high percentage.

Alot of the older regular fans who wouldnt be ybig lads use travel companys for all their trips so id say thats part of the reason theres no outrage.

Also Abbey travel/Ray Tracy travel have been getting tickets for years and people would know that. I know the big clubs in England also do this with companies like Thomas Cooke for big euro aways.

Corholio

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Because maybe I'm not a cynic 24/7 and I actually believe that most of the time the FAI are interested in catering the the needs of fans, while at the same time meeting their essential and contractual obligations to sponsors etc.

This is why Delaney can get paid the obscene amount he does when there's no questioning like that. You don't have to be a cynic to comment on questionable decisions this organisation makes, and how it constantly tries to be the tie giving, drink buying fans best friend all the time.

anncoates

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

but the travel agents do cater to the fans remember.

They cater to any fan lottery-style which is the point being made here.

It's not rocket-science. Just sort out the people that show loyalty all year round before anybody else.

The foot stamping about this is typical of the kind of bellends that come out of the woodwork for big games then disappear again, often for years.

homerjay2005

yabadabado wrote: »

Fair play to lads on YBIG they have gotten this issue a lot of coverage and hope its the catalyst for positive change.

They have 1 or 2 members who are "well connected" to the media to say the least.

homerjay2005

homerjay2005 wrote: »

They have 1 or 2 members who are "well connected" to the media to say the least.

Ah come on.

Surely nothing next or near as connected as the FAI, John Delaney, INM owner Denis O'Brien, the Independent etc. etc. etc.

Does the media fawn over any YBIG members, give them air time to analyse their love lives and so on? I appreciate you have not said Delaney and co. are not well connected, but in the context of a thread specifically about the FAI v YBIG, it's not the latter that have the media cavalry on its side. If they have put their point across in spite of the Delaney love in/laugh in, fair play to them.

polarbearhead

Is there a danger that when Ireland fans try to enter the scottish areas they will be stopped by stewards? It happened to me before in the millennium stadium, we were put into the Irish section instead. Game was far from a sell out!

Fr Tod Umptious

Corholio wrote: »

This is why Delaney can get paid the obscene amount he does when there's no questioning like that. You don't have to be a cynic to comment on questionable decisions this organisation makes, and how it constantly tries to be the tie giving, drink buying fans best friend all the time.

Fair enough the FAI do not have a scheme in place that counts attendance at games and distributes tickets accordingly.

But in the absence of such they seemed to distribute tickets as fairly as possible , i.e supporters' clubs, season ticket holders, Club Ireland members and known away supporters, a further 700 to clubs and leagues.


This was always going to be a heavily subscribed game, and add to that the fact that the SFA are only releasing the minimum to Ireland. 5%, and the team are going into this unbeaten then there was always going to be a problem with supply and demand.

Even if you had a loyalty scheme there would have to be a lottery aspect to it given supply and demand.

yabadabado

OK

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Fair enough the FAI do not have a scheme in place that counts attendance at games and distributes tickets accordingly.

But in the absence of such they seemed to distribute tickets as fairly as possible , i.e supporters' clubs, season ticket holders, Club Ireland members and known away supporters, a further 700 to clubs and leagues.


This was always going to be a heavily subscribed game, and add to that the fact that the SFA are only releasing the minimum to Ireland. 5%, and the team are going into this unbeaten then there was always going to be a problem with supply and demand.

Even if you had a loyalty scheme there would have to be a lottery aspect to it given supply and demand.

The big question is why don't the FAI have a system in place ? They want everyone to be a memeber of an SC so they can wash their hands of ticket allocation when the fairest way is each person has an account with the right to buy one ticket.

iirc the closing date for applicatiom was before a ball was kicked in this campaign.FAI could have sorted out the tickets properly and given them to the most deserving fans and still had enough for sponsors etc but they decided without warning to move the goalposts.

There was always going to be to many applications to look after everyone but at least with a system in place the people most deserving would have gotten them.
This has been a terrible **** up by the FAI and it doesn't look like it will go away anytime soon.

ArmaniJeanss

yabadabado wrote: »

iirc the closing date for applicatiom was before a ball was kicked in this campaign.FAI could have sorted out the tickets properly and given them to the most deserving fans and still had enough for sponsors etc but they decided without warning to move the goalposts.

By definition wouldn't there still be a cut-off-point where fans who consider themselves deserving of a ticket would have missed out to 'sponsors'? And this exact same thread would appear with the exact same points.

homerjay2005

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah come on.

Surely nothing next or near as connected as the FAI, John Delaney, INM owner Denis O'Brien, the Independent etc. etc. etc.

Does the media fawn over any YBIG members, give them air time to analyse their love lives and so on? I appreciate you have not said Delaney and co. are not well connected, but in the context of a thread specifically about the FAI v YBIG, it's not the latter that have the media cavalry on its side. If they have put their point across in spite of the Delaney love in/laugh in, fair play to them.

the FAI are a very easy target....and the YBIG certainly are winning this battle.

ill say no more.

yabadabado

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

By definition wouldn't there still be a cut-off-point where fans who consider themselves deserving of a ticket would have missed out to 'sponsors'? And this exact same thread would appear with the exact same points.

Yes of course there would still be a cut off point and some people wouldn't have gotten a ticket but at least there would be a fair system and people would know were they stood.
If a system was in place that rewarded loyalty and regular supporters I don't think the majority of fans would have a problem.

Fr Tod Umptious

yabadabado wrote: »

Yes of course there would still be a cut off point and some people wouldn't have gotten a ticket but at least there would be a fair system and people would know were they stood.
If a system was in place that rewarded loyalty and regular supporters I don't think the majority of fans would have a problem.

But it would not be fair

Because Johnny and Timmy have both gone to the same amount of games and there is only one ticket left, so Johnny gets it in a lottery.

And the reason that there is one one ticket left if because < 20% of the allocation has gone to sponsors, and poor Timmy does not get a ticket because some "suit" has got two instead, ignoring the fact that the "suit" gave both tickets he/she got to his/her neighbor and their kid down the road, that have not had the chance to get to a game in years for various reasons.

yabadabado

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But it would not be fair

Because Johnny and Timmy have both gone to the same amount of games and there is only one ticket left, so Johnny gets it in a lottery.

And the reason that there is one one ticket left if because < 20% of the allocation has gone to sponsors, and poor Timmy does not get a ticket because some "suit" has got two instead, ignoring the fact that the "suit" gave both tickets he/she got to his/her neighbor and their kid down the road, that have not had the chance to get to a game in years for various reasons.

You are being pedantic, any system would have a few kinks in it but its still much better than having no system at all.The majority of Ireland away games are under subscribed so this isn't a problem that occurs everytime.

What would you suggest instead ?

yabadabado

I couldn't believe the amount of stewards and guards around the singing section . Easily more there than in the east and west lower combined all because FAI/Delaney didnt want any planned protest to go ahead.
The FAI /stewards had no right to take the banners under their own regulations and it looks like the heavy handed approach has back fired.

A lot of talk about this on twitter/social media and should be in newspapers and on radio tomorrow.

In fairness, maybe now Delaney has found "the love of his life", he didn't want her seeing that some people just think he's a clown. It was all for love.

JaMarcusHustle

Before the game (not my pictures):







Is it true they threw out people for singing anti-FAI/Delaney chants?

CSF

Shels got in massive trouble, fines etc. for singing about Delaney and the FAI so that would not surprise me one bit.

Lovely Bloke

No one is allowed to criticise Dear Leader - Shels had banners removed and fines for a chant calling him a "fúcking cúnt".

The censorship in grounds has been going on for years.

YBIG made a huge mistake in publicising this protest ahead of time - I read a statement yesterday that was going on about what minutes of the game certain things would happen.

Who are these YBIG people anyway, they must be incredibly out of touch with actual Irish football if they didn't know that he wouldn't have allowed this to go ahead. I'm not one bit surprised that there were extra police and security/stewards posted in the YBIG section, and if people are surprised that the banners were taken down, then they must be "the best fans in the world" who only go to International jollies, and not take an interest in the LoI at all.

It's been well known for years that this type of thing occurs - it even happened at Irish games before.

Stupid decision to go public, absolutely stupid.

Leroy42

The only way to show real protest is to not go to the game at all. Too easy for the FAI to simply take the banners away. Thay already have the gate receipts etc so what do they care. If you want to turn up and boo, they know it will be drowned out the majority of people who are clueless about the issue and want to watch the game.

If you don't like what the FAI are doing stay away.

If you don't like the way a shop treats you do you continue to go there and buy their products, but with a frown on your face to let them know you're unhappy?

No, you take you're custom elsewhere. In this case, since you can't follow another team, you're only course of action is to stop buying the product direct.

Waving a few banners, which most people can't see, and booing every few minutes. Come on, what are we 8 years old?

Leroy42

Leroy42 wrote: »

The only way to show real protest is to not go to the game at all. Too easy for the FAI to simply take the banners away. Thay already have the gate receipts etc so what do they care. If you want to turn up and boo, they know it will be drowned out the majority of people who are clueless about the issue and want to watch the game.

If you don't like what the FAI are doing stay away.

If you don't like the way a shop treats you do you continue to go there and buy their products, but with a frown on your face to let them know you're unhappy?

No, you take you're custom elsewhere. In this case, since you can't follow another team, you're only course of action is to stop buying the product direct.

Waving a few banners, which most people can't see, and booing every few minutes. Come on, what are we 8 years old?

But isn't the point that they want to go to Ireland games?

I mean, to take your shopping analogy. Someone in a third world country might protest at prices being charged in the only shop in the village. But surely going there and objecting is better than staying away and starving?

doncarlos

There is only one man that can solve this problem...

In 2007 a crackpot football fan was sent to prison for a crime he didn't commit. This man promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Dundalk underground. Today, still wanted by the government, he survives as a soldier of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find him, maybe you can hire the Maxi.

Leroy42

Deleted User wrote: »

But isn't the point that they want to go to Ireland games?

I mean, to take your shopping analogy. Someone in a third world country might protest at prices being charged in the only shop in the village. But surely going there and objecting is better than staying away and starving?

Football supporters are not going to starve by not going to the game. One is a lack of choice, the person is faced with principle or food. I think most people would opt for food.

We are faced with principle or watching a football game. Its not even remotely the same thing.

By turning up at the game, we are supporting the team, and by extension, the FAI. They realy don't care if there are some that that love Delaney etc, once they still get the money and the seats filled. Nothing worse than having to explain an empty stadium to the sponsors.

So YBIG have a major problem with the FAI, just not that much to actually miss such an important event as a friendly against the USA?

If I was the FAI I would take the YBIG as a mild irritant and nothing to worry about. They are like crack addicts. They complain about the dealer, but can't live without it so will come back no matter what you do.

Leroy42

Leroy42 wrote: »

Football supporters are not going to starve by not going to the game. One is a lack of choice, the person is faced with principle or food. I think most people would opt for food.

We are faced with principle or watching a football game. Its not even remotely the same thing.

The shopping analogy was yours. The weakness of your analogy was that it suggested an easy choice. I wasn't suggesting fans would starve, merely showing by way of another analogy that the assumption of choice was wrong.

They really don't have a choice. YBIG stands for "You Boys In Green". That's the point, they follow Ireland, they would kinda cease to be YBIG if they boycotted Irish games! They are hardly going to boycott Irish games and take themselves off to Cardiff and Wembley to get a substitute national team to follow, tuning into ManU -v- Leicester isn't some alternative.

Pedro K

I was at the match. YBIG unfurled a banner saying "F.A.I.lures & Liars."

The stewards and Gardai tried to seize the banner. Fair play to the lads though, they kept the banner moving and kept it away from the stewards.

I heard people were kicked out.

Shambolic.

Also, another side note. They have an ad for league of Ireland at half time. Flares feature in the ad heavily. I guess they're trying to show the atmosphere. Yet when there are flares present they fine the clubs.

CSF

I think it's a lot easier for the FAI to play down low attendances as a lack of interest rather than discontent.

Much harder for them to play down events like yesterday.

ArmaniJeanss

Not sure why the police are getting involved there, the banner doesn't appear to contravene any decency laws or to have a political message that UEFA would have a problem with. 'X' out, 'sack the board' etc have always been fine. Its not the job of the gardai in the stadium to uphold the sensitivities of the FAI, unless theres a threat to lauranorder.

Case for someone in ybig to contact GSOC?

anncoates

Bit naive of the lads to think Der Führer would let them say something bad about the FAI at the OleOleBowl.

Hulk Hands

Regardless of what's happened to a few dozens of fans at some 3k LOI game, the guys who organised this couldn't expect Delaney to stop a legal protest on the biggest football stage we have, mostly through fear of backlash through the media. But hey, look what's happened. He did stop it and the media are all over it, far more so than the odd picture of a banner had the protest be allowed go ahead. And symphaty on the fans side as they weren't sneaky in the slightest about the protest. In hindsight its been a big success

anncoates

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Regardless of what's happened to a few dozens of fans at some 3k LOI game

Good lad.

homerjay2005

what was the attendance yesterday?

yabadabado

homerjay2005 wrote: »

what was the attendance yesterday?

IIRC 33000 according to setanta.seemed much less.

yabadabado

Its worked out much better than I reckon most anticipated. YBIG didn't hide the fact they planned to have a protest.They didn't use flares or have any offence material yet the FAI used a very heavy handed approach and it looks like its backed fired spectacularly.

Gavin "shels"

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Regardless of what's happened to a few dozens of fans at some 3k LOI game,

Jog on, there's been protests, banners, chants, etc... at LoI for years about the vermin in the FAI and no one took notice. Now that YBIG have thrown their rattle from their pram people realise there's an issue, sure a few cans of Carlsberg for the next Ireland away trip and everything will be hunky dory again!

Gavin "shels"

These are from back in 2012, fines dished out for them all iirc. Shels paid thousands in fines for chants against John Delaney and the FAI.

Cookiemunster

Lads, under condition of attendance the banners fall under the following condition

9 Any form of religious or political advertising, banner or slogan is strictly prohibited and may result in ejection from the Stadium.

and the stewards can basically do what they want.

19 At all times whilst present in the Stadium, persons must comply with any and all instructions and directions of any steward or officer of Aviva Stadium or the Controlling Body, any Garda or any officer of any other safety service. Failure to comply with any such instruction or direction may lead to the refusal of entry to, or the immediate ejection from, the Stadium.

Any match at the Aviva is a private event subject to the rules and regulations of the stadium and governing body. There's no such thing as freedom of speech at a private event. If they don't like your banners they're fully within their rights to remove them and/or you.

I agree with the previous poster who said they shouldn't have announced the plans all over social media. This was always going to happen once they did that.

_Puma_

Cant help but think the enemy of my enemy is my friend. There will be the inevitable sweetner from John Delaney and the FAI now to YBIG for next home game with increased ticket allocation. Hopefully they will show a bit of backbone. Firmly in the belief that if Football is to progress in this country both Nationally and Internationaly, Delaney and his cronies have to be removed.

ArmaniJeanss

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Lads, under condition of attendance the banners fall under the following condition

9 Any form of religious or political advertising, banner or slogan is strictly prohibited and may result in ejection from the Stadium.

and the stewards can basically do what they want.
..................

I don't think anyone is disagreeing that the stewards are within their rights as per t&c, I just don't see why (as stated by some who where there) the gardai would be getting involved in removing people who had banners with such slogans.
Its not good if the gardai are taking orders from the stewards like.

Cookiemunster

sugarman wrote: »

But it was neither religious or political

The fact that they were anti FAI made them political. It doesn't have to be anti Isreal / FG etc.

iDave

If Delaney et al go will their replacements be any better? Who will they be? How will they be recruited?

Gavin "shels"

iDave wrote: »

If Delaney et al go will their replacements be any better? Who will they be? How will they be recruited?

They wouldn't be any worse. Ideally a task force should be set up, people like Richard Sadlier. Ex-CEO of St. Pats, ex-Irish footballer, ex-LoI player and has a huge interest in football at all levels.

Hulk Hands

Gavin shels wrote: »

Jog on, there's been protests, banners, chants, etc... at LoI for years about the vermin in the FAI and no one took notice. Now that YBIG have thrown their rattle from their pram people realise there's an issue, sure a few cans of Carlsberg for the next Ireland away trip and everything will be hunky dory again!

Did you read the context I said that in? It was people calling the organisers stupid for not expecting this. I was saying that the organisers couldn't expect the same treatment at a 30k friendly international that a LOI game got. Maybe they did expect it, hence how this has worked out so well for organisers. A fair percentage of regular away trippers and protesters last night were LOI regulars btw. And they weren't crying about 'oh but we've been complaining for years before you have'. Fwiw, ill be a Galway FC ST holder next year so not as if im anti LOI

PhlegmyMoses

Somebody should have explained the Streisand Effect to Delaney.

anncoates

This made the radio news on the way home. One of the main stations, can't remember which.

Gavin "shels"

Just seen a great post on a Facebook page:

"If you think that not enough tickets for an away international game is the main problem for Irish football and why Delano should be removed you are way out of touch. Almost a decade of incompetence and disregard for the state of the League of Ireland and of its clubs is the pressing issue here. For example, Monaghan United went out of existence in summer 2012 while Delaney was in Poland buying cans for the self proclaimed 'best fans in the world.'"