Swimming alone, why not?

courageoussteve

Playing devils advocate here, but seriously once you're in the water how much safer are you as two people instead of one?
Eg if you have a heart attack, what are the chances even the strongest swimmer could get you to shore in time to make any difference?
Jellyfish stings/hyperthermia/food poisoning/strong currents etc surely these are all manageable risks for an experienced swimmer who is familiar with his/her surroundings?

Freddio

There's a lot of very different circumstances there.

Jelly fish stings can be manageable unless you have had a lot of them and you were having an anaphylactic shock, which would mean you were an experienced swimmer.

If you were getting sucked out by a rip current, an experienced swimmer won't get you back in against the current but would know how to get you in when you got to a place where the current has subsided.

I don't know what relevance food poisoning has, but I know a few swimmers barfed in this years dun laoighre swim and were able to get out.

A heart attack is going to be tough to deal in aqua environment but it would definitely help if there was assistance for the swimmer having an attack.

An experienced swimmer would also pick up quicker if you were getting hypothermic and act accordingly.

courageoussteve

Freddio wrote: »

There's a lot of very different circumstances there.

Jelly fish stings can be manageable unless you have had a lot of them and you were having an anaphylactic shock, which would mean you were an experienced swimmer.

If you were getting sucked out by a rip current, an experienced swimmer won't get you back in against the current but would know how to get you in when you got to a place where the current has subsided.

I don't know what relevance food poisoning has, but I know a few swimmers barfed in this years dun laoighre swim and were able to get out.

A heart attack is going to be tough to deal in aqua environment but it would definitely help if there was assistance for the swimmer having an attack.

An experienced swimmer would also pick up quicker if you were getting hypothermic and act accordingly.

What I'm asking in a very long winded way is does the advice to never swim alone really improve water safety?
I am starting to wonder if it is counter productive as it has encourage a sense of undue fear and ignorance.
There is a virtous circle where the more people swim in open water the more we learn about the risks and how to avoid them.
But today maybe we have a vicious circle where few people swim in open water and there is little understanding of what is safe and what is not.

Freddio

courageoussteve wrote: »

What I'm asking in a very long winded way is does the advice to never swim alone really improve water safety?
I am starting to wonder if it is counter productive as it has encourage a sense of undue fear and ignorance.
There is a virtous circle where the more people swim in open water the more we learn about the risks and how to avoid them.
But today maybe we have a vicious circle where few people swim in open water and there is little understanding of what is safe and what is not.

I don't think fear and respect of the sea is undue. All things considered at the height of summer at the busiest Irish beaches very few will be in above their waist and I don't think it's because of any media campaign, more people knowing their limits.

Most if not all sea races in Ireland have safety boats and kayaks so it would indicate precaution is not misguided.

AngryHippie

courageoussteve wrote: »

What I'm asking in a very long winded way is does the advice to never swim alone really improve water safety?
I am starting to wonder if it is counter productive as it has encourage a sense of undue fear and ignorance.
There is a virtous circle where the more people swim in open water the more we learn about the risks and how to avoid them.
But today maybe we have a vicious circle where few people swim in open water and there is little understanding of what is safe and what is not.

There are dozens of scenarios where not being alone may mean you both get to survive an adverse situation, a few examples below:

• exhaustion - a second swimmer can assist or support
• raising the alarm if a situation arises
• Cramp - Assistance, stretching, resuce recovery
• strong currents - spotter to direct rescue and maintain visual contact
• hypothermia - Decision making goes out the window (As you will know if you've ever been there) a second brain halves the chances of doing something stupid
• black-out/heart attack etc. even though they can't defibrillate you, they will be more able to raise the alarm, and can maintain Airway and Breathing until help arrives
• avoiding exhaustive frustrating and frequently unsuccessful searches for a body - Knowing exactly where and when somebody disappeared can often assist with recovery of a body (a huge comfort to bereaved relatives)

A basic plan is a commonsense approach to an activity that has risks involved, and a swimming buddy or at very least a spotter is the most basic safety precaution you can put in place in terms of emergency response. From your post above, it doesn't sound like you have a whole lot of respect for the sea, which indicates to me that you have never really seen any curly situations first hand, or have never read a report where the most basic precaution would have saved a life.
You have a point regarding experience, skill and ability being key to avoiding the situations in the first place, but to be honest, there are plenty of skilled experienced and capable mavericks buried at very sad ceremonies the world over because they got a bit gung-ho, or overlooked something basic while enjoying the water, and I think a healthy respect for the power of moving water, cold water, deep water and it's inhabitants serves a lot better than suggesting that people who take steps for their own self preservation are over-reacting.
Lots of people swim in open water, the swimming ability of the general population in Ireland for an island nation is relatively poor (a trend that has been changing) and many people are ignorant of water safety, which is a dangerous combination, hence the blanket response of those trying to take responsibility for water safety by setting a good example and not playing down the real risks involved.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

courageoussteve

I agree that there are some increased risk when swimming alone. But the best way not to drown is to stay dry.

Exhaustion - yes it occurs but can this not be assessed with based on pool swimming. Or advising people to carrying some food on long swims?
Cramp - Does a life threatening cramp really occur that often? and would it not be better to train people how to deal with the cramp?
Currents - Local knowledge is key here.
Hypothermia - the most difficult risk to address. but does being in a group really offer than much extra protection? or does it lead people to staying in the water too long as they don't want to force the group to turn back?

To try and add to my own knowledge I look up the IWS.ie and found the following report (can't post full address)
iws.ie/_fileupload/Statistics/Irish%20Water%20Safety%20Report%20on%20Drowning%20in%20the%20Republic%20of%20Ireland_For%20Web.pdf


While swimming alone is not addressed, the inability to swim, consumption of alcohol and swimming location are measurable and significant risks.
Is there evidence from any where in the world that shows a significantly increase risk for lone swimming, assuming the person is an experienced swimmer and has taken reasonable precautions?

AngryHippie

courageoussteve wrote: »

Exhaustion - yes it occurs but can this not be assessed with based on pool swimming. Or advising people to carrying some food on long swims?

Nope, cold water and pool water cause very different levels of fatigue, and in notably different ways. You would know this if you had done enough of either to be having this discussion.

courageoussteve wrote: »

Cramp - Does a life threatening cramp really occur that often? and would it not be better to train people how to deal with the cramp?

Every cramp in deep water or where there is no easy exit from the water is a life threatening cramp. You lose mobility, and must cease propulsive effort to deal with the cramp, in which time you are entirely at the mercy of the cold, currents, wind and tide, and when you do manage to stretch it out, you have a very diminished level of effort and propulsion. Again, if you have ever had a cramp in cold water you will realize this.

courageoussteve wrote: »

Currents - Local knowledge is key here.

Local knowledge can help, but again, the sea can be unpredictable, spring lakes can be unpredictable, river currents are notoriously treacherous. Local knowledge goes a long way, but at some stage you have to admit that the open water environment is beyond your control and you are completely at its mercy.

courageoussteve wrote: »

Hypothermia - the most difficult risk to address. but does being in a group really offer than much extra protection? or does it lead people to staying in the water too long as they don't want to force the group to turn back?

Again, if you had even the most basic water survival training, you would know about the help and huddle positions, you would also know how your body shuts down once hypothermia sets in. You will not be able to "swim" to safety, you are a victim from that point on, in need of rescue.
As for your comments regarding group swims, it's not as if your just going to go another few miles on a swim as you would if you were out for a jog, pre-planning, an agreed route, a foreknowledge of the swimmer's physical capabilities are essential for a successful outing. Cold water training in a relatively controlled setting can help to establish these parameters, but safety should come first, and if there are distinct levels of ability then you break into sub-groups so that nobody is left to swim a return leg alone. (Scuba-diving is conducted on a very similar buddy basis as a basic control of the risks involved)

courageoussteve wrote: »

To try and add to my own knowledge I look up the IWS.ie and found the following report (can't post full address)
iws.ie/_fileupload/Statistics/Irish%20Water%20Safety%20Report%20on%20Drowning%20in%20the%20Republic%20of%20Ireland_For%20Web.pdf

While swimming alone is not addressed, the inability to swim, consumption of alcohol and swimming location are measurable and significant risks.
Is there evidence from any where in the world that shows a significantly increase risk for lone swimming, assuming the person is an experienced swimmer and has taken reasonable precautions?

From the conclusion of that same report:

This venue is most likely to be a river located close
to a town or village settlement. Indeed the majority of drowning in Ireland occurs at inland waterways or features

You are looking for reverse causality from the statistics in that report, a very difficult thing to find.

courageoussteve

AngryHippie wrote: »

You are looking for reverse causality from the statistics in that report, a very difficult thing to find.

If swimming a lone was such a strong contributor to deaths while swimming would it not appear obvious from the statics, I have a very limited understanding of statistic but I would expect a simple PCA would return this factor assuming it was recorded.
Either way I am open to evidence from any where in the world and not just that recorded IWS. Also I would expect that this forum would know the best sources which might not be obvious from a google search.

Dogma without evidence is just that Dogma!

AngryHippie

courageoussteve wrote: »

If swimming a lone was such a strong contributor to deaths while swimming would it not appear obvious from the statics, I have a very limited understanding of statistic but I would expect a simple PCA would return this factor assuming it was recorded.
Either way I am open to evidence from any where in the world and not just that recorded IWS. Also I would expect that this forum would know the best sources which might not be obvious from a google search.

Dogma without evidence is just that Dogma!

Information can only be inferred from statistics of that nature.
The approach IWS and most sporting bodies approach it with is that of risk assessment and hazard controls. The statistics quoted are largely meaningless for the following reasons:

1. The recorded data - It does not record whether the person was swimming alone or unaccompanied, as such is completely inapplicable and irrelevant to your proposal
2. 57% of the incidents are recorded as being either intentional or unclassified -i.e definite suicide, or non-accidental drowning. this immediately limits your data to 43% of drownings that have actually occured.
3. 52% of inland drownings occured where recreational swimming would not be advised - i.e rivers, canals, bog-holes, reservoir/well/tank, Quarry/pond or at the very least in a location that most people would not find suitable or pleasant for a recreational open water swim.
4. Of the remaining sea drownings, a further 15% occurred in docks, estuaries or cliff areas, which would also not be remotely suitable for recreational swimming, particularly alone
5. Drowning of bathers only occured in 10% of the overall occurrences with an average of 14 per year. This is a very small subset of data on which to base any hypothesis.

Considering the above, I would suggest you look further afield http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs347/en/ gives some further information
http://healthyliving.azcentral.com/importance-not-swimming-alone-3420.html has more information but no statistics
http://www.river-swimming.co.uk/stats.htm has some more in detail information about the nature of drowning statistics
http://www.river-swimming.co.uk/risk.htm
http://www.river-swimming.co.uk/coldwater.htm

In short, what all of this information is suggesting is that there are hazards and risks associated with open water swimming, and from an organizational and legal point of view, anyone organizing or participating in open water swimming has a duty of care to anyone taking part to identify the risks, and implement all reasonable controls to minimize the possibility of damage, death or injury.
That is why every organization involved highlights swimming alone as being an unnecessarily hazardous activity and discourages it. Its poor practice and promoting it is irresponsible.