Ballon d'Or 2014 - can anyone stop Cristiano Ronaldo?

Too Tough To Die

py2006 wrote: »

Perhaps the closest thing to it?

Not at all. Unless we have wires crossed and the guy means complete athlete. Then most definitely.

Your Airbag

niallo27 wrote: »

If you are going be the best in the world and maybe the best of all time, well things like not getting his country out of the group stages will go against him.

niallo27 wrote: »

To you maybe but not to me.

So how do you rate Messi who has never done it at an international tournament? The 2010 world Cup he didn't score. In the 2011 Copa America tournament he didn't score, in the 2007 Copa America he scored twice. Argentina were dumped out in both 2011 & 2007 with Messi not being close to the best player. In the 2006 World Cup he got 1 goal with Argentina dumped out again. No goals in the knockouts once the easy group stage teams were gone in this WC.

He has done nothing spectacular for his Country at International level. Hardly the actions of the best of all time.

Too Tough To Die

I swore i saw Messi in a world cup final this summer.

Your Airbag

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

I swore i saw Messi in a world cup final this summer.

Thankfully nobody said otherwise. How did he play?

Did you see CR7 in the Euro 2004 final?

Rayne Wooney

Both Messi and Ronaldo never done it for countries, it's not Messi's fault Xavi and Iniesta aren't Argentinian

It won't be much of a slight when they finish up, will definitely go down amongst the greatest ever

Muff_Daddy

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

I swore i saw Messi in a world cup final this summer.

And I saw Ronaldo in the final of Euro 2004, as a teenager.

If there is any difference between the respective international careers of Messi and Ronaldo thus far, it's fcuk all of a difference.

kryogen

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Both Messi and Ronaldo never done it for countries, it's not Messi's fault Xavi and Iniesta aren't Argentinian

It won't be much of a slight when they finish up, will definitely go down amongst the greatest ever

Ronaldo is his countries all time top scorer in fairness to him. Internationals are no longer a very good way of defining a career though, or talent.

rottie 11

Ronaldo is ****

kryogen

rottie 11 wrote: »

Ronaldo is ****

Trees are green.

rottie 11

kryogen wrote: »

Trees are green.

They sure are and ronaldo is ****

kryogen

rottie 11 wrote: »

They sure are and ronaldo is ****

You will need to be a little more.......em, well, smarter then that to get the reaction you desire chum

Did I mention

Logs are brown?

rottie 11

kryogen wrote: »

You will need to be a little more.......em, well, smarter then that to get the reaction you desire chum

Did I mention

Logs are brown?

Chill out man.

Na i think he will def get it again this year, but messi in my eyes is a better player. Bale and neymar should be up there aswel

The_Kew_Tour

rottie 11 wrote: »

They sure are and ronaldo is ****

Enjoying the mid term?

GreNoLi

Was just comparing his goalscoring record with a few of the other greats of the game and his goals per game ratio as of now is 0.68, since the 07-08 season his ratio is 0.94.

By comparison Gerd Muller has 655 goals in 709 games, Puskas has 616 in 620, Ronaldo has 352 in 518, Di Stefano has 485 in 664, and Pele has 757 in 812 minus the 526 in 554 that were gotten in 'friendly matches and other defunct tournaments'.

Messi has 374 in 469.

If Ronaldo wins it he will have deserved it and not even his most injury laden season to date (13/14) has curtailed his progression.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Liam McPoyle

Ronaldo @ number 1, Messi @ number 2, Suarez should be @ number 3 but obviously because of his WC shenanigans he couldn't be on the list.

Lahm imo would be third in the absence of Suarez.

efb

Are people actually questioning this???

The Golden Miller

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

No chance, he's miles behind Messi in goals per game ratio

Rayne Wooney

Ronaldo has a better ratio in La Liga than Messi to be fair

Adding his right wing days at United puts him about .12 per game behind Messi

The Golden Miller

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Ronaldo has a better ratio in La Liga than Messi to be fair

Adding his right wing days at United puts him about .12 per game behind Messi

Messi was young when he started playing in La Liga, and thus his ratio would obviously suffer. Ronaldo wasn't. Who has the better ratio in La Liga since Ronaldo came to Real?

Ronaldo was an out and out striker in his final season at United, and has been since. It's only since Guardiola left Barca that Messi is being deployed as a striker, as every Barca manager since has been next to useless. Until then he always started on the wing and roamed into centre mid, playing a deeper role than Ronaldo, and being involved in much of the playmaking with Iniesta and Xavi

Backstreet Moyes

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Messi was young when he started playing in La Liga, and thus his ratio would obviously suffer. Ronaldo wasn't. Who has the better ratio in La Liga since Ronaldo came to Real?

Ronaldo was an out and out striker in his final season at United, and has been since. It's only since Guardiola left Barca that Messi is being deployed as a striker, as every Barca manager since has been next to useless. Until then he always started on the wing and roamed into centre mid, playing a deeper role than Ronaldo, and being involved in much of the playmaking with Iniesta and Xavi

Hold on so you went on a ramble writing off Ronaldo because all he does is score goals.

Now your here defending Messi's goals ratio and making excuses for him.

Doesn't really make much sense if you think goals are not important.

Your Airbag

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Messi was young when he started playing in La Liga, and thus his ratio would obviously suffer. Ronaldo wasn't. Who has the better ratio in La Liga since Ronaldo came to Real?

Ronaldo was an out and out striker in his final season at United, and has been since. It's only since Guardiola left Barca that Messi is being deployed as a striker, as every Barca manager since has been next to useless. Until then he always started on the wing and roamed into centre mid, playing a deeper role than Ronaldo, and being involved in much of the playmaking with Iniesta and Xavi

Oh dear, your lack of knowledge here is showing. Pep sold Eto and Zlatan to make Messi the centre piece of that Barca team. He was a striker under Pep.

kryogen

Your Airbag wrote: »

Oh dear, your lack of knowledge here is showing. Pep sold Eto and Zlatan to make Messi the centre piece of that Barca team. He was a striker under Pep.

Yeah Pep moving him central was heralded as genius sure.

For the record, Messi has 196 in 177 games since Ronaldo entered La Liga

Ronaldo has 193 in 174.......

I'm sure you can all work out the ratio there

Thats just league goals, I will throw up the stats for other competitions too if ye like

Oh go on then, Ronaldo 282/267 all competitions
Messi has scored

---

289/272 all competitions.

They are remarkably similar, two goalscoring freaks.

Too Tough To Die

kryogen wrote: »

Yeah Pep moving him central was heralded as genius sure.

For the record, Messi has 196 in 177 games since Ronaldo entered La Liga

Ronaldo has 193 in 174.......

I'm sure you can all work out the ratio there

Thats just league goals, I will throw up the stats for other competitions too if ye like

Throw up some stats that are more impressive (or comprehensive) than this to support your argument and i will be a believer.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/lionel-messi-is-impossible/

Best of luck!

EDIT: It features lots of Ronaldo stats too, so should be interesting reading for you.

kryogen

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Throw up some stats that are more impressive (or comprehensive) than this to support your argument and i will be a believer.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/lionel-messi-is-impossible/

Best of luck!

EDIT: It features lots of Ronaldo stats too, so should be interesting reading for you.

A believer in what? I don't really care what you believe friend Someone had asked for how the goal ratio would compare since Ronaldo started playing in La Liga, that post is an answer to that.

There is no argument about that.

Too Tough To Die

kryogen wrote: »

A believer in what? I don't really care what you believe friend Someone had asked for how the goal ratio would compare since Ronaldo started playing in La Liga, that post is an answer to that.

There is no argument about that.

Ah okay, give it a read anyways. It's interesting, delves into a bit more than goal stats.

kryogen

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Ah okay, give it a read anyways. It's interesting, delves into a bit more than goal stats.

Its ok, I have read it, and many articles like it before. Depending on the publication you will often find the same figures used to illustrate different points, but anyway since the query was in relation to goals there is no need to delve into anything other then goal stats sure.

brevity

Hug it out lads.

Too Tough To Die

kryogen wrote: »

Its ok, I have read it, and many articles like it before. Depending on the publication you will often find the same figures used to illustrate different points, but anyway since the query was in relation to goals there is no need to delve into anything other then goal stats sure.

If you find the time can you post up some of the other articles like it that you've read before. I've never seen anything near as comprehensive as the one i posted, so would love to read them.

Cheers!

darced

This post has been deleted.

Spazdarn

I think the Barca team Messi started in compared to the United team Ronaldo begun at, was much better, so I think comparing their earlier years Messi had better players around him, so I'd expect him to have scored more around then.

Doesn't really matter though, up until two years ago I thought Messi was the better player, in his all round game. Ronaldo has been consistently better the last two years.

Personally I prefer watching Ronaldo for his power, pace, strength over Messi's vision, balance, ability to make space for himself in tight areas but that's just me.

I've always thought that when either are playing, it's two different methodologies... with Messi it's like he's making love, with Ronaldo it's like he's here to fk!

Rayne Wooney

That link on the other thread pops up in every thread like this, completely ignoring that teams aren't a universal control and that Barcelona were evidently miles better than Madrid for 3 or 4 years

brevity

Spazdarn wrote: »

with Messi it's like he's making love, with Ronaldo it's like he's here to fk!

This thread gets weirder every day.

Too Tough To Die

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

That link on the other thread pops up in every thread like this, completely ignoring that teams aren't a universal control and that Barcelona were evidently miles better than Madrid for 3 or 4 years

Standard, weak, go-to rebuttal.

70% of Ronaldo's goals are from his first touch, suggesting he is heavily dependent on the service of others. More so than Messi. Stats are fun.

Liam O

darced wrote: »

As I said Messi is way out in front of the overall goals to games ratio,obviously they both can pick certain periods of when they performed better.

Question is can Ronaldo close the gap?

He is in better goalscoring form at the minute but possibly doesn't have as many years left so I think he will end up behind but closer when all is said and done.

No, the question is who has been better in 2014. People seem to be forgetting that in their hate. It's Ronaldo btw.

If Atletico had won the CL I'd be tempted to make a case to have Costa ahead of him but they didn't so he's not.

kryogen

Speaking of, surely Simeone should be a shoe in for Manager of the Year? Now, I say should be, not will be.

Liam O

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Standard, weak, go-to rebuttal.

70% of Ronaldo's goals are from his first touch, suggesting he is heavily dependent on the service of others. More so than Messi. Stats are fun.

I'm sure the Madrid players felt bad celebrating so many first touch goals, just not the same really.

brevity

kryogen wrote: »

Speaking of, surely Simeone should be a shoe in for Manager of the Year? Now, I say should be, not will be.

Hasn't done it on the national stage kryogen...also I hear he punches kittens.

Will I Amnt

Liam O wrote: »

I'm sure the Madrid players felt bad celebrating so many first touch goals, just not the same really.

Maybe if Messi stopped dilly-dallying and hit it first time he would score more :pac:

kryogen

70% of Ronaldos goals coming with his first touch would be quite the testament to the technique he possess, no need for a second touch obviously. You could argue that someone who doesn't score that often with their first touch is not technically as proficient I suppose. Finishing is the toughest thing to do in the game, to excel at it to the level that 7 in 10 of your many, many goals is quite the achievement

Stats are fun

kryogen

brevity wrote: »

Hasn't done it on the national stage kryogen...also I hear he punches kittens.

I'm genuinely not sure if this is serious or not

Just in case.....He has broken the big two dominance in La Liga and led an unfancied Atletico side to a title, and a CL final playing some great stuff.

Certainly no mean feat, I would hope they don't just give it to Ancelloti cause of the CL or to Loew for the WC. Great achievements that they were, I would be voting for Simeone anyway.

Donnielighto

kryogen wrote: »

I'm genuinely not sure if this is serious or not

Just in case.....He has broken the big two dominance in La Liga and led an unfancied Atletico side to a title, and a CL final playing some great stuff.

Certainly no mean feat, I would hope they don't just give it to Ancelloti cause of the CL or to Loew for the WC. Great achievements that they were, I would be voting for Simeone anyway.

I'd say the kittens part should have given it away.

Was there allegations about PEDs directed at athletico, thought I heard there was. Should win it regardless.

brevity

kryogen wrote: »

I'm genuinely not sure if this is serious or not

Just in case.....He has broken the big two dominance in La Liga and led an unfancied Atletico side to a title, and a CL final playing some great stuff.

Certainly no mean feat, I would hope they don't just give it to Ancelloti cause of the CL or to Loew for the WC. Great achievements that they were, I would be voting for Simeone anyway.

Nah...I was kidding...I think he should win as well but I feel that he will end up being 3rd behind Ancelloti and Loew.

Rayne Wooney

70% of Ronaldos goals come from his first touch meaning he makes something out of nothing which 100% of the rest of players can't do

Love a good interpretation myself

Too Tough To Die

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

70% of Ronaldos goals come from his first touch meaning he makes something out of nothing which 100% of the rest of players can't do

Love a good interpretation myself

How do you make something out of nothing with one touch? Apologies if you're being facetious and it's going over my head.

Rayne Wooney

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

How do you make something out of nothing with one touch? .

By being the best player in the world, one touch is all he needs


http://vine.co/v/OMzOIbl1vWD

Sheepy99

MD1990 wrote: »

Here would be my Top 10 players in the world for 2014

1 Ronaldo
2 Messi
3 Suarez
4 Neur
5 Robben
6 Di Maria
7 Lahm
8 Muller
9 Ibrahimovic
10 Bale

Don't understand how somebody could rate Neuer so highly in terms of who's deserving of the award. He goes untroubled in such a high percentage of the games throughout the season that he usually won't get to show off his ability, as good as it is.

Too Tough To Die

kryogen wrote: »

70% of Ronaldos goals coming with his first touch would be quite the testament to the technique he possess, no need for a second touch obviously. You could argue that someone who doesn't score that often with their first touch is not technically as proficient I suppose. Finishing is the toughest thing to do in the game, to excel at it to the level that 7 in 10 of your many, many goals is quite the achievement

Stats are fun

Absolutely, you're right in what you say. It also suggests that the service provided to him is world class, and that he's world class at creating the opportunities to receive such service that enables him to score with his first touch of course. I can't say fairer than that.

Context: I'm saying this in response to the suggestion that one player has it all laid on a plate for him (best midfield in the world) while the other makes everything for himself, which is clearly not supported by the evidence.

Iang87

Liam O wrote: »

No, the question is who has been better in 2014. People seem to be forgetting that in their hate. It's Ronaldo btw.

If Atletico had won the CL I'd be tempted to make a case to have Costa ahead of him but they didn't so he's not.

why ignore your own question then.

Ronaldo was better than costa regardless what was won. Why would atletico winning a game he didnt play in matter

Billy86

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Ronaldo was an out and out striker in his final season at United, and has been since.

:pac: