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Forgot item in restaurant

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  • 28-10-2014 12:49am
    #1
    Chance The Fapper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 628 ✭✭✭


    Hi all,

    Last night was out for dinner with a large group in a restaurant off Grafton Street. Service was really bad in general, took an hour and a half to get food, but we got a discount on the meal, so it was fine.

    Anyway, I left my headphones in the restaurant, under the table. They cost me around €160. I only realised this morning, so I rang a few times, too early, so I didnt get through. Eventually I got through to a man with broken English who was unhelpful on the phone, so I said I'd call in. Went in later in the day, spoke to the man who seemed to be in charge.

    He basically said nope, no headphones were found. I asked what time they closed last night, and they had closed shortly after we had left, and he admitted no one had been sitting at our table after us. The room we were in was empty after we left, as we were in a large group. My seat was in the corner too, so it was unlikely that anyone had spotted them on the floor from another room.

    Essentially it looks to me like a staff member took them. I asked him about CCTV. They had a camera directly facing down outside the front door, but he told me it's a fake. I asked him if he had asked the staff, and he said he had, and that no one had found them. (I noticed that at least two staff I remembered from last night weren't in, so he couldn't have asked them)

    Is there anything I can do at all in this case? I left my number with them.

    Sorry for the long post.

    tl;dr: Forgot headphones, think staff member took them.


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    #2
    Mr. Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 9,798 ✭✭✭Mr. Incognito


    Not a thing. You lost them. The restaurant owes you no responsibility


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    #3
    SparkySpitfire
    Registered Users Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭SparkySpitfire


    Mr. Incognito wrote: »
    Not a thing. You lost them. The restaurant owes you no responsibility

    Yeah but someone told me before that if you find say, an iPhone on the ground and keep it (don't give it to the Gardaí etc) then it's essentially theft. Would that not be the same case here?

    EDIT: gonna throw this in here for context http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12163498 TL;DR, a policeman gets handed cash that someone found out in public and kept it. He got charged for theft but technically never stole anything, he just kept it, which to me sounds like this situation here. Not stealing per the dictionary definition, but rather keeping something that falls into your lap.


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    #4
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    SparkySpitfire wrote: »
    Yeah but someone told me before that if you find say, an iPhone on the ground and keep it (don't give it to the Gardaí etc) then it's essentially theft. Would that not be the same case here?

    The someone that told you was wrong.

    The OP needs to prove he left the headphones in the restaurant.


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    #5
    Chance The Fapper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 628 ✭✭✭Chance The Fapper


    GarIT wrote: »
    The someone that told you was wrong.

    The OP needs to prove he left the headphones in the restaurant.

    Ok, they have no CCTV, so basically I cant, unless a nearby business had CCTV, but I can't exactly go in and ask them?


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    #6
    Nekarsulm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,219 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    Why bring headphones to a meal in a restaurant? your companions can't be that boring, can they?


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    #7
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    Chance The Fapper wrote: »
    Ok, they have no CCTV, so basically I cant, unless a nearby business had CCTV, but I can't exactly go in and ask them?

    It doesn't matter if they have CCTV, unfortunately you need to have proof, even if they have a camera watching the table they aren't obliged to check it for you.

    No you can't ask to see the CCTV, you need the Gardaí to do that.

    Unless you can provide your own proof that the headphones were left in the restaurant you don't have a leg to stand on, and even if you did have that proof somehow you left them their so they weren't stolen.


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    #8
    SparkySpitfire
    Registered Users Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭SparkySpitfire


    GarIT wrote: »
    The someone that told you was wrong.

    The OP needs to prove he left the headphones in the restaurant.

    Have a look at the link I added, it's definitely a thing, I dunno where Ireland stands on it though. The link in my previous post was from England, this one is American: http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/criminal-defense/felony-offense/i-found-a-bunch-cash-can-i-keep-it

    And a quote from that says
    Holding or possessing property that you know does not belong to you also constitutes theft or larceny under most state laws.

    Again, I don't know where Ireland stands on it, but it's definitely a thing.

    Also OP:
    You'd want someone with some legal know-how to tell you whether you should pursue this or not, but theft by finding is a real thing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_by_finding

    Also, Irish law says:
    Theft.

    4.—(1) Subject to section 5 , a person is guilty of theft if he or she dishonestly appropriates property without the consent of its owner and with the intention of depriving its owner of it.

    (2) For the purposes of this section a person does not appropriate property without the consent of its owner if—

    (a) the person believes that he or she has the owner's consent, or would have the owner's consent if the owner knew of the appropriation of the property and the circumstances in which it was appropriated, or

    (b) (except where the property came to the person as trustee or personal representative) he or she appropriates the property in the belief that the owner cannot be discovered by taking reasonable steps,

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/act/pub/0050/sec0004.html But again, you'd want someone with legal know-how to interpret that for you.


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    #9
    Chance The Fapper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 628 ✭✭✭Chance The Fapper


    GarIT wrote: »
    It doesn't matter if they have CCTV, unfortunately you need to have proof, even if they have a camera watching the table they aren't obliged to check it for you.

    No you can't ask to see the CCTV, you need the Gardaí to do that.

    Do you think the gardai would take me seriously if I went in?


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    #10
    Sofiztikated
    Registered Users Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    If they weren't handed in, they weren't handed in.

    Restaurant will not take responsibility for items left or lost on the property.

    Is it possible that a staff member found them, and took them? Yes. However, big ticket items like that, people usually ring/call in looking for them, so it's not worth the hassle.

    You could have left them in the taxi/bus, they could have fallen somewhere along the way, they could have been lifted by someone else in the restaurant.

    Moral of the story? Look after your own stuff.


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    #11
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    Chance The Fapper wrote: »
    Do you think the gardai would take me seriously if I went in?

    I've no idea to be honest, it depends on who you get, I assume it's more likely that they will say they have more important things to deal with.


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    #12
    Yawns
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭Yawns


    Chance The Fapper wrote: »
    Do you think the gardai would take me seriously if I went in?

    Not a hope. Once the guards hear you left them there, they will tell you pfo.


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    #13
    Mr. Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 9,798 ✭✭✭Mr. Incognito


    SparkySpitfire wrote: »
    Yeah but someone told me before that if you find say, an iPhone on the ground and keep it (don't give it to the Gardaí etc) then it's essentially theft. Would that not be the same case here?

    EDIT: gonna throw this in here for context http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12163498 TL;DR, a policeman gets handed cash that someone found out in public and kept it. He got charged for theft but technically never stole anything, he just kept it, which to me sounds like this situation here. Not stealing per the dictionary definition, but rather keeping something that falls into your lap.

    This is totally different. In your link someone handed stolen goods into the police who have a statutory duty to return them.

    In the case in hand he left them in a restaurant. The restaurant never acknowledged that they saw them. Its likely they were carried by another patron.

    The op has zero come back against the restaurant. Take some personal responsibility. They werent stolen. He carelessly left them behind.

    Tough. Suck it up.


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    #14
    SparkySpitfire
    Registered Users Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭SparkySpitfire


    Mr. Incognito wrote: »
    This is totally different. In your link someone handed stolen goods into the police who have a statutory duty to return them.

    In the case in hand he left them in a restaurant. The restaurant never acknowledged that they saw them. Its likely they were carried by another patron.

    The op has zero come back against the restaurant. Take some personal responsibility. They werent stolen. He carelessly left them behind.

    Tough. Suck it up.

    There's actually no need for obstinacy. He asked for advice, you're giving yours I'm giving mine.

    I'm not saying it has anything to do with the restaurant per se, but whoever took it, patron or staff member is guilty of theft by finding but it's HIGHLY unlikely the OP is gonna get them back.

    Your situation really sucks OP, I left a bag with €40 worth of clothes in it on the bus one day and nearly lost my life because 40 quid is worth a lot to me. Thank god I was able to ring the garage and collect my stuff as the terminus is actually in my town. It's very easy to leave things behind, and I'm so lucky that no one decided to take my stuff with them when they got off the bus themselves.


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    #15
    Chance The Fapper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 628 ✭✭✭Chance The Fapper


    Sofiztikated wrote: »
    If they weren't handed in, they weren't handed in.

    Restaurant will not take responsibility for items left or lost on the property.

    Is it possible that a staff member found them, and took them? Yes. However, big ticket items like that, people usually ring/call in looking for them, so it's not worth the hassle.

    You could have left them in the taxi/bus, they could have fallen somewhere along the way, they could have been lifted by someone else in the restaurant.

    Moral of the story? Look after your own stuff.

    Wasn't drinking, walked home, I know for a fact that they were left there. Your comment is unhelpful. Thanks anyway.


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    #16
    Nino Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭Nino Brown


    Most headphones aren't worth E160 so most aren't worth taking, so even if they were left on the floor of the restaurant, I wouldn't be surprised if the staff threw them out when cleaning up.


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    #17
    Straylight
    Registered Users Posts: 338 ✭✭Straylight


    Something similar happened my wife when she left an expensive pair of sunglasses in a restaurant. We know they were left there, but the restaurant said they hadn't been handed in. Like you, we had no proof that they were left there and even if we had, how would we know which staff member took them (similar situation, quiet restaurant and corner table away from other diners, so probably unlikely a customer took them)? Basically we had to forget about ever seeing them again, and I'm afraid that's what you'll have to do as well. The Gardaí will have no interest in this as you can't prove the headphones were left in the restaurant and even if you could, you don't have a suspect who may have taken them. They're not going to interview the whole staff and potentially search their homes just to track down one pair of headphones.


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    #18
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,518 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    Nekarsulm wrote: »
    Why bring headphones to a meal in a restaurant? your companions can't be that boring, can they?

    Please post on topic.

    dudara


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    #19
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,382 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Nino Brown wrote: »
    Most headphones aren't worth E160 so most aren't worth taking, so even if they were left on the floor of the restaurant, I wouldn't be surprised if the staff threw them out when cleaning up.
    Thats what I would worry about. I know some people who view them as unhygenic and would not even want to touch them, almost like someone leaving a toothbrush in a hotel.
    Sofiztikated wrote: »
    However, big ticket items like that
    Most would not think they are expensive, especially if they are small in ear ones. So it would be like a hotel cleaner finding an expensive toothbrush and throwing it out. If it was actual false teeth they might think it unhygenic but would recognise it is of value. Like if it was an mp3 player left behind.


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    #20
    Melendez
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭Melendez


    This post has been deleted.


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    #21
    Chance The Fapper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 628 ✭✭✭Chance The Fapper


    rubadub wrote: »
    Thats what I would worry about. I know some people who view them as unhygenic and would not even want to touch them, almost like someone leaving a toothbrush in a hotel.

    Most would not think they are expensive, especially if they are small in ear ones. So it would be like a hotel cleaner finding an expensive toothbrush and throwing it out. If it was actual false teeth they might think it unhygenic but would recognise it is of value. Like if it was an mp3 player left behind.

    They're large, over ear headphones, and had a 3m cable (tied up) with them, I think it's highly unlikely they were thrown out


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    #22
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Melendez wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    That's just willfully wasting Garda time.


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    #23
    Chance The Fapper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 628 ✭✭✭Chance The Fapper


    Melendez wrote: »
    There is no harm contacting the Gardai. They will probably do nothing - no loss if they don't. They might ring the manager and ask him has he contacted all staff members to ensure they did not put the headphones away somewhere safe and then forgot about them - this may or may not resurrect the headphones.

    Thanks, you're right, no harm, I'll call in later.


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    #24
    Melendez
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭Melendez


    This post has been deleted.


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    #25
    Chance The Fapper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 628 ✭✭✭Chance The Fapper


    Casen Powerful Throat wrote: »
    That's just willfully wasting Garda time.

    A two minute phone call for the sake of €160 headphones is a waste of time is it?


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    #26
    Yawns
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭Yawns


    Chance The Fapper wrote: »
    They're large, over ear headphones, and had a 3m cable (tied up) with them, I think it's highly unlikely they were thrown out

    You can buy a cheap set of over the ear headphones for as little as €5. They could very well have been thrown out rather than stolen. They could indeed have also been stolen, but that is the major point. You have no idea what happened other than you left them behind.

    Best thing might even to pop back to the restaurant when a different manager is on and enquire again.


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    #27
    MarkR
    Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 11,121 Mod ✭✭✭✭MarkR


    I think it's worth speaking to the garda staion. I wouldn't consider reporting lost property willfully wasting time. I wouldn't hold my breath on it's return, however. Is the restaurant part of a larger group?


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    #28
    Chance The Fapper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 628 ✭✭✭Chance The Fapper


    MarkR wrote: »
    I think it's worth speaking to the garda staion. I wouldn't consider reporting lost property willfully wasting time. I wouldn't hold my breath on it's return, however. Is the restaurant part of a larger group?

    No, it's an independent one unfortunately.


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    #29
    Chance The Fapper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 628 ✭✭✭Chance The Fapper


    Yawns wrote: »
    You can buy a cheap set of over the ear headphones for as little as €5. They could very well have been thrown out rather than stolen. They could indeed have also been stolen, but that is the major point. You have no idea what happened other than you left them behind.

    Best thing might even to pop back to the restaurant when a different manager is on and enquire again.

    The point is they're saying they were never seen. They would have been seen if someone had thrown them out. I'm going to call in again this evening. Thanks


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    #30
    anncoates
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    Stake out the restaurant 12 hours a day for a month until you spot a staff member leaving with them on their head.

    Or accept that you left them behind and move on.


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    #31
    ash23
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭ash23


    Had similar happen when I left my GHDs in a hotel room. Realised within a couple of hours and called the hotel. Room had been cleaned but not checked into again so only staff had access but nope, they found nothing.
    I'd no proof and that was the end of that. Chalked it up to a bad experience and moved on.

    Very little point following up OP. You lost something. It happens.


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