Sexy street harassment

Wibbs

On the topic of the thread this particular video?

I fully support the notion and experiences of women who do deal with this. I've seen it myself walking my hound. Women joggers seem to get it a lot. Morons from cars yelling. GTFO you small dicked twats.

But let's take the video itself. I have a few issues with it.

As I noted in this earlier post it is very heavily racially biased. Pretty much all but one guy featured was Black or Hispanic. I don't buy their line that White men were equally bad but they footage wasn't usable. That IMHO is bullshít. So either they're racists and classists or...

On that score nigh on all the men involved are socially "inferior" to the woman, or are scuzzy feckers. They're clearly below her on the totem pole. That's a bias. Why no shots of her walking through Central Park or Wall street with middle classe besuited banker types getting the same reaction and creepy interaction? Odd by it's omission. As I noted in my previous post, very odd given in your leftist, ivory tower college right on US type middle class White men are the "enemy", the source of all evil. Yet none are to be seen? Hmmmm. The fact they seem to miss this bias is ironic and golden in equal measure.

All documentary is manipulation to some degree. It's in the nature of the beast. The documenter nearly always comes in at an angle. Even with the best will in the world. In this case the documenters set out their stall ahead of time, so there will be a slant. It's a given. You are being manipulated. It may be for a good cause, but bear that in mind.

Documentary has the biggest ratio of footage shot to footage aired. This a good example. Ten hours for two minutes. It gives the impression that those two minutes are representative of those ten hours. All too easy for the outlier to become the common. Again especially if bias is in play from the get go.

And what is this ultimately meant to achieve? More awareness? OK, of what? That some Black and Hispanic men in New York are scuzzy? Bring that up in your next inclusive diversity let's beat drums together and bemoan the patriarchy meeting and see how you go hippie boy. Social sciences majors trying to balance "feminism" with "racism". I'd love to sit in on that meeting for the lulz. Have a few beers, toke a south of the border woodbine and snacks, plenty of snacks. That's entertainment(apologies to Mr Weller).

Holoback? Sounds like something I could well get behind, but show me the plan. As Johnnie Lennon said in song "You say you got a real solution?
Well, you know, we'd all love to see the plan". How is this going to work? Is it another "man up and stop other men raping" level of bullshít, cos y'know that just shows you're living in cloud cuckoo land as far as realities on the ground go and is a great disservice to the real cause you claim to be fighting for.

bodice ripper wrote:

How dare you!?





I am after no one's cash.

*respectfully tips hat*

RDM_83 again

bodice ripper wrote: »

Perhaps foreign men are more pleasant to be approached by? I have been called a dog for politely refusing a drink before, and I have seen similar done to friends by Irish guys, famous as they are and all.

Not buying it :P look who the current Irish film star who's apparently got a cult following as sex symbol in the states, we've obviously just got innate appeal!

(also a mildly apt clip)

smurgen

Wibbs wrote: »

On the topic of the thread this particular video?

I fully support the notion and experiences of women who do deal with this. I've seen it myself walking my hound. Women joggers seem to get it a lot. Morons from cars yelling. GTFO you small dicked twats.

But let's take the video itself. I have a few issues with it.

As I noted in this earlier post it is very heavily racially biased. Pretty much all but one guy featured was Black or Hispanic. I don't buy their line that White men were equally bad but they footage wasn't usable. That IMHO is bullshít. So either they're racists and classists or...

On that score nigh on all the men involved are socially "inferior" to the woman, or are scuzzy feckers. They're clearly below her on the totem pole. That's a bias. Why no shots of her walking through Central Park or Wall street with middle classe besuited banker types getting the same reaction and creepy interaction? Odd by it's omission. As I noted in my previous post, very odd given in your leftist, ivory tower college right on US type middle class White men are the "enemy", the source of all evil. Yet none are to be seen? Hmmmm. The fact they seem to miss this bias is ironic and golden in equal measure.

All documentary is manipulation to some degree. It's in the nature of the beast. The documenter nearly always comes in at an angle. Even with the best will in the world. In this case the documenters set out their stall ahead of time, so there will be a slant. It's a given. You are being manipulated. It may be for a good cause, but bear that in mind.

Documentary has the biggest ratio of footage shot to footage aired. This a good example. Ten hours for two minutes. It gives the impression that those two minutes are representative of those ten hours. All too easy for the outlier to become the common. Again especially if bias is in play from the get go.

And what is this ultimately meant to achieve? More awareness? OK, of what? That some Black and Hispanic men in New York are scuzzy? Bring that up in your next inclusive diversity let's beat drums together and bemoan the patriarchy meeting and see how you go hippie boy. Social sciences majors trying to balance "feminism" with "racism". I'd love to sit in on that meeting for the lulz. Have a few beers, toke a south of the border woodbine and snacks, plenty of snacks. That's entertainment(apologies to Mr Weller).

Holoback? Sounds like something I could well get behind, but show me the plan. As Johnnie Lennon said in song "You say you got a real solution?
Well, you know, we'd all love to see the plan". How is this going to work? Is it another "man up and stop other men raping" level of bullshít, cos y'know that just shows you're living in cloud cuckoo land as far as realities on the ground go and is a great disservice to the real cause you claim to be fighting for.

*respectfully tips hat*

you're dead right Wibbs,bitches be trippin kid!

Mister Vain

There's no denying that alcohol is a big part of our culture and how we socialise. I personally have found the opportunities to meet women here very limited compared to when I lived abroad. We generally don't do the approaching on the street thing. I know a few guys who don't drink and are going out with foreign women. I think a lot of Irish saw them as odd for been teetotal. I reckon for some guys, the foreign girls are just more attainable for whatever reason. But the novelty factor does play a big part too I suppose.

strobe

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Since Kickstarter seems to be new way of milking money from the internet I've came up with a genius plan after reading this thread also this plan bridges barriers (I'l probably go with this because apparently its about social change or realizing you dreams, not making buckets loads of cash for fcuk all )

You take two groups that would seem to be diametrically opposed, Women who suffer from street harassment and PUA types, this may seem like a weird choice but bear me for a moment.
Both these groups are impacted by wolf whistles and cat calls.

Picture this as a viral Youtube video

Woman Jane gets shouted at in the street by some oiks, she then feels on edge and wary of strange men, PUA Guy Joe just wants to meet a nice girl (because the other girls are b*tches), Joe approaches Jane in the street and brings his A game with full on mimicking of body language and negging techniques, Joe gets yelled at by a highly stressed Jane and goes home alone and bitter, Jane goes home feeling frazzled and angry. Nobody wins.
Shot of of them both alone in seperate depressing bedsits: Camera Fade to black

Now remove the shouting and the wolf whistles, suddenly Jane is relaxed and happy, this means she's the perfect target for Joe, Joe tell Jane a few lines, they both laugh, smile and then lock eyes.
Cut to them holding hands walking along a sunset beach (obviously Jane is in bikini). Camera Fade to Sunset

My working title is "Pick Up some Respect for Woman"

All donations to paypal please, I need to spend a 100,000 buying a camcorder

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/264/200/acb.jpg

Wibbs

smurgen wrote: »

you're dead right Wibbs,bitches be trippin kid!

Ehhhh. No. Where in jayzuz' name did you get that from? :eek: Look S, lest we forget American folks are generally cool, the vast majority are IME, but they do have loud people and even support loud people, for entertainment as much as anything but those loud nutbags are a rarity. All they are is louder.

Candy_Girl

I don't see what all the fuss is about this clip! I see some guys just trying to get her attention and some being cheeky.The only ones that I would have an issue with is the ones that think it's OK to walk along side her when she clearly doesn't want their company.

Chunners

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Not buying it :P look who the current Irish film star who's apparently got a cult following as sex symbol in the states, we've obviously just got innate appeal!

(also a mildly apt clip)

I'll tell you why, he is not even what you would consider stunning or anything but he is good looking and, more importantly, has a personality that is easy to warm to, he doesn't come across as creepy and most girls (whether he was famous or not) would like him. He has a quality about him that is genuine. Personally I'd take him (or someone like him) any day over some buff prick who only wanted to tell me what he benched last night. Now don't get me wrong if I was single and someone like John Barrowman (Captain Jack) offered I'd suck him in and blow him out in bubbles but I'd still always end up with a Roy (Chris O'Dowd) type because if someone like him fell in love with you he would be in love with you forever and when he says it you would know he means it. Being with ubber hot guys is all well and good for a while but in my experience eventually you are just competing with their mirror :pac:

Candy_Girl

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Not buying it :P look who the current Irish film star who's apparently got a cult following as sex symbol in the states, we've obviously just got innate appeal!

(also a mildly apt clip)

Please don't use him as an example...sex symbol he is far from.

Chunners

Candy_Girl wrote: »

Please don't use him as an example...sex symbol he is far from.

Personally I'd beg to differ, he may not be a Sean Connery but he has a lot more redeeming features than most "sex symbols" now a days

Candy_Girl

Chunners wrote: »

Personally I'd beg to differ, he may not be a Sean Connery but he has a lot more redeeming features than most "sex symbols" now a days

It's a matter of taste but good looking he ain't.

Chunners

Candy_Girl wrote: »

It's a matter of taste but good looking he ain't.

Then your standards are too high. I'd consider him very good looking tbh

One eyed Jack

Chunners wrote: »

Then your standards are too high. I'd consider him very good looking tbh

No such thing as someone's standards being 'too high'

Chunners

BLURRED_liNeS wrote: »

the video was an staged act

a lot of angry fems out there !

Again the thread isn't about the video it is about females and males experiences of it happening to them, whether the video is staged or not is irrelevant in that context since the video is only there as a visual prompt

Chunners

One eyed Jack wrote: »

No such thing as someone's standards being 'too high'

There is if they can't pick up someone in a bar and can't accept that the person is probably way out of their league so have to resort to following them down the road in an effort to intimidate them into a sexual liaison

How Soon Is Now

How many more accounts made in the last day or so are gonna come in here and say the same ****e??

One eyed Jack

Chunners wrote: »

There is if they can't pick up someone in a bar and can't accept that the person is probably way out of their league so have to resort to following them down the road in an effort to intimidate them into a sexual liaison

I may be inviting trouble on myself for this but here goes anyway and hopefully you understand where I'm coming from and don't take it as me getting at you personally. With that out of the way, here goes -

This whole thread has been about abolishing this notion of objectifying people, and I personally have never bought into nor bothered with this idea of leagues and so on, because nobody is "out of" anybody's "league". We're all just people at the end of the day and if we're to stop these notions of people viewing other people as having their heads up their own arses, then it doesn't help to dispel that popular notion when people do indeed have their heads firmly wedged up their own arses.

These people are just as bad as the people who approach them with "I want to get into your knickers / jocks" written all over their leery little faces, and perhaps, just perhaps, if they didn't take that approach, and treated the person like just another person, no better and no worse than they are, perhaps that person might be more amenable to treating them the same way in return.

In reality, that doesn't always work, but that's the theory anyway, that you get back what you put out there, and if you behave like a sleaze, you'll be treated like a sleaze, and you'll only attract sleazy people. If you behave like you have your head up your own ass, well, you shouldn't really be surprised when you attract people that too have their heads up their own ass.

However, if you approach a person and treat them as you would like to be treated, there's much less chance they'll tell you to fcuk right off. There's always every chance they could, and then the best course of action is to do as they request, as you're not likely to do yourself any favours by sticking around, only to be repeatedly told to fcuk off.

That doesn't mean anyone was out of your league or that their standards were too high, it just means they didn't want to lower themselves to the standards you'd set for them that they could see written as plain as day all over your face. These are the standards you'd set for yourself.

Chunners

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

How many more accounts made in the last day or so are gonna come in here and say the same ****e??

As many as he can get away with, mathematically speaking the formula would be (multi accounts * e-mail addresses)/mod interaction

How Soon Is Now

Chunners wrote: »

As many as he can get away with, mathematically speaking the formula would be (multi accounts * e-mail addresses)/mod interaction

If they make any more accounts they could just have a conversation with themselves at this stage!

Chunners

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I may be inviting trouble on myself for this but here goes anyway and hopefully you understand where I'm coming from and don't take it as me getting at you personally. With that out of the way, here goes -

This whole thread has been about abolishing this notion of objectifying people, and I personally have never bought into nor bothered with this idea of leagues and so on, because nobody is "out of" anybody's "league". We're all just people at the end of the day and if we're to stop these notions of people viewing other people as having their heads up their own arses, then it doesn't help to dispel that popular notion when people do indeed have their heads firmly wedged up their own arses.

These people are just as bad as the people who approach them with "I want to get into your knickers / jocks" written all over their leery little faces, and perhaps, just perhaps, if they didn't take that approach, and treated the person like just another person, no better and no worse than they are, perhaps that person might be more amenable to treating them the same way in return.

In reality, that doesn't always work, but that's the theory anyway, that you get back what you put out there, and if you behave like a sleaze, you'll be treated like a sleaze, and you'll only attract sleazy people. If you behave like you have your head up your own ass, well, you shouldn't really be surprised when you attract people that too have their heads up their own ass.

However, if you approach a person and treat them as you would like to be treated, there's much less chance they'll tell you to fcuk right off. There's always every chance they could, and then the best course of action is to do as they request, as you're not likely to do yourself any favours by sticking around, only to be repeatedly told to fcuk off.

That doesn't mean anyone was out of your league or that their standards were too high, it just means they didn't want to lower themselves to the standards you'd set for them that they could see written as plain as day all over your face. These are the standards you'd set for yourself.

Naa sure you are right, in all this thread have I sounded like someone who would take something you say personally? to be honest the reason I used the "out of your league" thing was because so many people have been fixating on how plain the girl in the video is to the point of trying to say "sure why would they be bothering with her, she's nothing special" when her looks are irrelevant so it was a way to imply to the same people "well I'm sure you're no Adonis either", I was being facetious to be honest because some of them fixating on the video over and over again was starting to bore me lol.

As for judging people on their looks I am pre op male to female Transsexual, I'm in a relationship but if I wasn't I couldn't afford to be so superficially picky because if I was I'd never have a chance of finding someone. To me most people look the same, I am genuinely one of the few people out there that is attracted to personality more than looks

Chunners

BLURRED_liNeS wrote: »

ever since this thread was set up it has been monitored to build a case against boards.ie
for discrimination against a member.

it will be the first of its kind under new law.

I'm sure the staff are cacking in their pants...

Chunners

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

If they make any more accounts they could just have a conversation with themselves at this stage!

Honestly I have been working under the assumption that he is only talking to himself because it's not like any of us are listening to his drivel when he posts, it's kind of embarrassing though isn't it? I mean a grown man with nothing better to do on a Thursday night than to constantly create hotmail accounts and re-register over and over again only to get deleted over and over again just so he can post on a thread to tell women that they are the ones taking things too seriously, there's an irony in that lol

How Soon Is Now

Chunners wrote: »

Honestly I have been working under the assumption that he is only talking to himself because it's not like any of us are listening to his drivel when he posts, it's kind of embarrassing though isn't it? I mean a grown man with nothing better to do on a Thursday night than to constantly create hotmail accounts and re-register over and over again only to get deleted over and over again just so he can post on a thread to tell women that they are the ones taking things too seriously, there's an irony in that lol

Oh id say theres plenty of others the very same all over this site! Would ya be arsed!?

Chunners

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Oh id say theres plenty of others the very same all over this site! Would ya be arsed!?

I can barely be arsed to log on with this account let alone create 20 others :pac:

gormdubhgorm

The woman in the video is an "aspiring actress" it is a very clever way to get attention while surveying the world from self-righteous hill on the moral high ground.
Attention seeking styled as a feminist "cause" it is ingenious marketing.

Chunners

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The woman in the video is an "aspiring actress" it is a very clever way to get attention while surveying the world from self-righteous hill on the moral high ground.
Attention seeking styled as a feminist "cause" it is ingenious marketing.

again for the purposes of this thread the woman in the video is irrelevant, if she was a mime artist with 5 arms and an arse on her face it wouldn't make any difference what so ever to the thread topic because no female on here has said that she is an aspiring actress who deliberately walks around dodgy areas looking for attention.The topic is what experiences have people had in Ireland not what experiences she had in New York

RedemptionZ

Haven't read the full thread but my two cents would be that pretty much all of that was not harassment. The guys following her was pretty creepy, but again there's no laws on being creepy as far as I know so I don't see what this 'Hollaback' charity wants to achieve.

Secondly surely these 'hey beautiful have a nice day' comments are all just well wishing comments as opposed to 'have sex with me please' ones. I don't think it's particularly traumatising to have people say that to you. Now me personally I'd never go up to someone and say that, I never really comment on peoples looks unless it comes up in conversation, but that's not out of some feminist principle and if someone wants to comment on it they should be allowed without being branded a rapist or someone that means harm.

To the people who say it is wrong, do you also think the classic movie scene of 'the dashing prince going up to the beautiful princess and proclaiming she is the most beautiful thing he has seen' is harassment on the princes part?

Chunners

RedemptionZ wrote: »

Haven't read the full thread

Any argument you try to make is moot after that line, read the whole thread and then ask the same questions. If you decide you can't be arsed to read it then then we can decide we can't be arsed to answer your questions since you are asking them under a presumption and without the full facts of the thread

Chunners

paddy1990 wrote: »

Everyone agrees that harrassment isn't on. You're taking poor behaviour by idiots and attributing it to most men. The majority of people agree that harrassment isn't on. This video is a tool that is successfully manipulating women to view most men as harrassers when the majority agree that harrassment isn't on at all.

Hold on a sec there, at no point did I use the words "Most men", as a matter of fact if you read back I tried to make it clear to a guy that no one said all or most men do this and so far I have been saying to people to ignore the video (because it is bias to a degree) and just read the personal experiences that women have posted. You can say the video is a tool to turn women against men but if that video wasn't posted and the same question was asked women would still be saying "Yes, I have felt intimidate and harassed". No woman on here thinks all or most men are harassers but they do think that some men are harassers and judging from their experiences that they have posted here they are 100% correct

J Mysterio

Fuhrer wrote: »

This video is in New York though, quite a rapey place.


Whats it like for women in places like London or Dublin?

Oh my god. Everything about this post. :pac:

J Mysterio

ash23 wrote: »

What's a "rapey" song? I'd probably be creeped out if some bloke was walking behind me singing "I'm going to rape you, I'm going to rape you" in a sing song voice. Most people would.
If he was whistling it then I wouldn't know the lyrics and I wouldn't care.

Whistling a tune and giving a wolf whistle are two completely different things and you know it.

:pac:!

J Mysterio

Chunners wrote: »

No one is blaming ALL men, for the most part the women who have posted are talking about isolated incidents and trying to convey to ALL men reading this thread how intimidated they felt in those situations (as they were asked to do in the OP) but at no time was anyone placing blame on ALL men, no one even accused ALL men. Granted some people used the word "Men" as a generalization but that was more just bad grammar than actual intent and I think ALL the people posting that did use that generalization would agree that what they meant to say was "some men" and to imply otherwise is just being disingenuous and deliberately confrontational on your part.

ALL?

Chunners

J Mysterio wrote: »

ALL?

Yeah so what? I used "ALL" not in a context where I was saying ALL men, I mean it is pretty clear what I was saying in that post you quoted so what are you doing? are you just pointing it out to be pedantic? because if so you failed miserably and it is pathetic if you have to go to those levels just to extend your e-peen. I mean really all you Nay Sayers have been scraping the bottom of the barrel when it comes to arguments for a while now. Maybe you should try digging up for a change

Dildo S. Trap

I've stopped dressing myself up too much or putting on make up as much when I go into town because if I do I seem to always get some kind of perv pass a comment, its ****. I was walking down the road with my kid a few months ago and an old man said and I quote, ''I want to ride your pussy love''! My child was three at the time and was asking me what he said to me, pretty ****ed up lol

Mister Vain

Chunners wrote: »

again for the purposes of this thread the woman in the video is irrelavant

I disagree. She's a white woman with a black womans arse walking through a black neighborhood. She was bound to get some attention.

Zulu

Chunners wrote: »

Any argument you try to make is moot after that line, read the whole thread and then ask the same questions. If you decide you can't be arsed to read it then then we can decide we can't be arsed to answer your questions since you are asking them under a presumption and without the full facts of the thread

Seriously? You are going to be that unwelcoming and dismissive?? You expect them to read through over 600+ posts??? Gimme a break will you :rolleyes: (and don't speak for everyone else)

Dayum

Chunners wrote: »

So what if it is acceptable in Italy or Russia or the arsehole of Mongolia those are different countries with different boundries, the fact remains it is not acceptable here to stalk a woman no matter how much you think that constantly bothering her will eventually make her submit to your advances.

Manners and respect cost nothing but you make it sound like women don't even deserve that, you make it sound like women should be thankful that your creepy little ass is even paying them any attention what so ever so let me break this down for you. Guys like you are a dime a dozen, I could stand in the middle of O'Connell street and throw a brick over my shoulder and chances are I'd hit one of you. You are right we should start with the birds and the bees if nothing else so that it shows you that you are a bee and for every one bird there are 1000 bees and we don't want your undesired attention and if we change our minds we'll be sure to let you know but until then you can be safe in the assumption that we want you to **** off and not bother us

Don't know why you're saying "you" - I'm not saying these things to random women on the street. I wouldn't have to - I'm extremely good looking and all my life women have approached me.

Having said that, the women in here saying "terrible joe"...are probably heffers to begin with and look like the back of a bus. Now after you're cat called on the street better check into your POF profile to seek validation so that your insecurity can be fed. :rolleyes:

Zulu

Chunners wrote: »

... just to extend your e-peen.

e-peen? What is that? It's not the first time you've used this expression.

Out of interest, Is there a particular reason you are being so needlessly hostile?

Wibbs

Chunners wrote: »

Again the thread isn't about the video it is about females and males experiences of it happening to them,

Actually hang on. One question. Since when have we become "females" and "males"? When did we stop being men and women, boys and girls? More Americanisms creeping in and the terms dehumanise us.

whether the video is staged or not is irrelevant in that context since the video is only there as a visual prompt

Hoooo waitaminutethere.. Goebbels would be so proud. :pac:

Chunners wrote: »

again for the purposes of this thread the woman in the video is irrelevant, if she was a mime artist with 5 arms and an arse on her face

She'd likely get fewer creeps after her in fairness.

kylith

RedemptionZ wrote: »

Secondly surely these 'hey beautiful have a nice day' comments are all just well wishing comments as opposed to 'have sex with me please' ones. I don't think it's particularly traumatising to have people say that to you. Now me personally I'd never go up to someone and say that, I never really comment on peoples looks unless it comes up in conversation, but that's not out of some feminist principle and if someone wants to comment on it they should be allowed without being branded a rapist or someone that means harm.

The problem is that it's not just a random compliment. Why would anyone feel the need to inform a total stranger what they think of their appearance? It's not an innocuous comment either, it's "hey, I am demanding that you pay attention to me, and I may get aggressive if you don't respond", as one guy in that video did; yelling at her that she should show some gratitude.

It's similar to the thread recently about women being chatted up in cafes when they're trying to, for example, read a book. Some men think that because they have deigned to talk to a woman that she is obliged to respond, and may be come verbally abusive if she is not receptive, and this can colour perception of all men, even though logically most men are respectful and pleasant. It's a vicious circle where a woman is tired of men intruding on her space so she rebuffs a guy who approaches her in a public place, which then makes him bitter because he was, to him, only paying her a compliment, which then may lead to him lashing out verbally, which increases her discomfort and validates her feelings about staying away from men when she is unaccompanied.

Of course you can approach women in public, but it depends how you do it. Women want to be approached the way, I'm guessing, men would like to be approached - not reduced to an attribute or their attractiveness level, but being greeted in a friendly manner (friendly 'hello', not Quagmire 'Helllllooooo'), have a conversation struck up about something normal ('That's a nice *band* t-shirt, I like them too', 'I've heard of that author, is the book any good', 'How about this weather?'). From this kind of interaction you should be able to gauge if she would like to continue the conversation and if they're you should say that it's been nice chatting to them, then go back to whatever you were doing.

If someone is walking down the street then chances are that they don't want to stop and talk to someone, and if a woman you try talk to is curt with you it's not personal, it may just be that she's had 5 sleazebags try to hit on her already today.

CdeC

kylith wrote: »

It's similar to the thread recently about women being chatted up in cafes when they're trying to, for example, read a book. Some men think that because they have deigned to talk to a woman that she is obliged to respond, and may be come verbally abusive if she is not receptive, and this can colour perception of all men, even though logically most men are respectful and pleasant. It's a vicious circle where a woman is tired of men intruding on her space so she rebuffs a guy who approaches her in a public place, which then makes him bitter because he was, to him, only paying her a compliment, which then may lead to him lashing out verbally, which increases her discomfort and validates her feelings about staying away from men when she is unaccompanied.

I think that strangers are perfectly entilted to engage people in conversation. Perhaps with the intention of chatting someone up. If the person then rebuffs them respectfully than no harm done. That is not harrassment. If the person then starts insulting, insisting or threatening the person then that is not on at all. It'd be a bad place if Ireland lost its friendly demeanor because woman felt that any attention was harassment.

This can happen. I remember all the furore about the paedophile cases and after that I wouldn't even look at someone elses child in case I was branded a paedo.

secondrowgal

paddy1990 wrote: »

I can relate my individual experiences of dealing with female idiots, gay idiots, etc. At no point would I ever make a link between the behaviour of these idiots and the majority of women or gays as that would be retarded.

No man on this thread condones harrassment at all. Simple as that. We have all been harrassed by idiots. These idiots are idiots. Everyone agrees that they are idiots.

End of story but I'll say it again.

No man on this thread condones harrassment at all.

I think the problem lies with the differing definitions and perceptions of harrassment, tbh. The women on this thread, myself included, have experienced varying degrees of harassment. Not all the women on this thread agree that it WAS harrassment, not all the men agree. But I suppose the issue that the video, and most of the posters, seems to be trying to make is that it is commonplace and unwelcome.

osarusan

RedemptionZ wrote: »

Secondly surely these 'hey beautiful have a nice day' comments are all just well wishing comments as opposed to 'have sex with me please' ones. I don't think it's particularly traumatising to have people say that to you. Now me personally I'd never go up to someone and say that, I never really comment on peoples looks unless it comes up in conversation, but that's not out of some feminist principle and if someone wants to comment on it they should be allowed without being branded a rapist or someone that means harm.

People can argue that they are well-meaning comments (although I think this is often a weak excuse, and the comments are intended to make somebody feel uncomfortable), but this thread should make it clear that the vast vast majority of recipeients of these comments don't welcome them. They're either just unwelcome, or creepy.

Also, nobody on this thread branded anybody making such comments 'a rapist', so I don't know where you're going with that.

kylith

CdeC wrote: »

I think that strangers are perfectly entilted to engage people in conversation. Perhaps with the intention of chatting someone up. If the person then rebuffs them respectfully than no harm done. That is not harrassment. If the person then starts insulting, insisting or threatening the person then that is not on at all. It'd be a bad place if Ireland lost its friendly demeanor because woman felt that any attention was harassment.

This can happen. I remember all the furore about the paedophile cases and after that I wouldn't even look at someone elses child in case I was branded a paedo.

I agree that a person is entitled to strike up a conversation with whoever they like, but the other party is just as entitled to feel put-upon by the interaction. If you attempt to strike up a conversation with someone and they ignore you or say that they're busy then the correct reaction would be to respect that and leave them alone, not to call them a bitch and berate them that you were only trying to be friendly. I think we can all agree on that.

secondrowgal wrote: »

I think the problem lies with the differing definitions and perceptions of harrassment, tbh. The women on this thread, myself included, have experienced varying degrees of harassment. Not all the women on this thread agree that it WAS harrassment, not all the men agree. But I suppose the issue that the video, and most of the posters, seems to be trying to make is that it is commonplace and unwelcome.

That's the nub of it, really; you can't tell what will make another person uncomfortable. Some women have said that they would feel harassed by a man saying 'Hello beautiful' to them in the street, and then you get other people telling them that they're wrong because saying that isn't harassment. Saying 'why?' isn't harassment, but I feel harassed when my niece says it over and over for an hour. You don't get to tell other people how they feel about something.

OldNotWIse

kylith wrote: »

The problem is that it's not just a random compliment. Why would anyone feel the need to inform a total stranger what they think of their appearance? It's not an innocuous comment either, it's "hey, I am demanding that you pay attention to me, and I may get aggressive if you don't respond", as one guy in that video did; yelling at her that she should show some gratitude.

It's similar to the thread recently about women being chatted up in cafes when they're trying to, for example, read a book. Some men think that because they have deigned to talk to a woman that she is obliged to respond, and may be come verbally abusive if she is not receptive, and this can colour perception of all men, even though logically most men are respectful and pleasant. It's a vicious circle where a woman is tired of men intruding on her space so she rebuffs a guy who approaches her in a public place, which then makes him bitter because he was, to him, only paying her a compliment, which then may lead to him lashing out verbally, which increases her discomfort and validates her feelings about staying away from men when she is unaccompanied.

Of course you can approach women in public, but it depends how you do it. Women want to be approached the way, I'm guessing, men would like to be approached - not reduced to an attribute or their attractiveness level, but being greeted in a friendly manner (friendly 'hello', not Quagmire 'Helllllooooo'), have a conversation struck up about something normal ('That's a nice *band* t-shirt, I like them too', 'I've heard of that author, is the book any good', 'How about this weather?'). From this kind of interaction you should be able to gauge if she would like to continue the conversation and if they're you should say that it's been nice chatting to them, then go back to whatever you were doing.

If someone is walking down the street then chances are that they don't want to stop and talk to someone, and if a woman you try talk to is curt with you it's not personal, it may just be that she's had 5 sleazebags try to hit on her already today.

I experience this a lot, and it really gets old very fast! By all means approach someone in a pub or whatever, but if that person implicitly or expressly tells you that they are not interested in your company, the conversation should end there. Often, the initiator becomes defensive and hostile - to what end? What will they achieve by turning nasty, aside from maybe deflecting the rejection so that it is our fault things worked out the way they did, and couldn't possibly be theirs.

P. Breathnach

kylith wrote: »

... That's the nub of it, really; you can't tell what will make another person uncomfortable....

That's a bit of a cop-out. You can make reasonable judgements in many circumstances.

Start on the basis that if you leave a stranger alone then then there is no possibility of your behaviour being thought of as harassment. If you decide that you want to interact with that stranger, the onus is on you to ensure that you are not bothering the other person.

If a woman is walking moderately fast and has her eyes fixed on where she is going, that's a reasonably clear indication that she doesn't want strangers to engage with her. If she ignores your opening sally, that reinforces the message.

RedemptionZ

Chunners wrote: »

Any argument you try to make is moot after that line, read the whole thread and then ask the same questions. If you decide you can't be arsed to read it then then we can decide we can't be arsed to answer your questions since you are asking them under a presumption and without the full facts of the thread

It's an off topic forum and I came late to the party when there was already 57 pages(on my phone). I've got better things to do than read arguments going in circles, read the first 10 and posted from there.

P. Breathnach

RedemptionZ wrote: »

It's an off topic forum and I came late to the party when there was already 57 pages(on my phone). I've got better things to do than read arguments going in circles, read the first 10 and posted from there.

Okay, I'll give your contribution to the discussion as much weight as you have given to mine (there being several, all of them after the first page).

RedemptionZ

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Okay, I'll give your contribution to the discussion as much weight as you have given to mine (there being several, all of them after the first page).

Haha ok then.

Anyone else laugh at the way some of the guys were dressed?

denhaagenite

I am a feminist, as is my husband and most of our friends- this means that we are all in favour of equal rights, treatment, pay etc etc etc for both men and women. This video is not something new but it is appalling. What difference does it make if these are rubbish areas in New York? I don't think they are but that's beside the point. These men are disgusting, aggressive and threatening and it is a problem that needs to be highlighted. Nobody deserves to be abused and objectified like this woman was by simply leaving her home.

Last Friday I was in a busy bar having a drink and a guy walked up behind me and grabbed my breast while passing. He hadn't even seen my face. I didn't feel violated, I just felt angry, extremely angry. I felt like punching him in the face. I started shouting at him which he obviously didn't expect but was delighted with because his plan had worked- he had engaged my attention. He didn't even care what the emotion behind it was, flattery, fear, rage didn't matter to him at all because in his mind, I am not even a person. It was loud, my friends didn't really understand what was happening and thought he had maybe stepped on my foot. They sent him on his way but were shocked at what they thought was an overreaction to an accident. When I clarified the situation afterwards, they were apologetic to me and livid that this had happened, but I must admit that I didn't make too big of an issue out of it at the time in case a fight started.

It's an absolute joke. I should be able to go where I like without be assaulted like this. I should be able to walk the way I want to walk without someone trying to follow me, objectify me, intimidate me, make me feel less than I'm actually worth. I should be able to go out for a drink with my friends without being groped in public. I wouldn't put up with it from my partner, let alone a total stranger who without even seeing me decided that he can put his hands on me without my permission. Ditto for someone screaming "I just saw $1000 go by" at a woman just walking past. What a f**king horrible thing to think, formulate into words and communicate to someone and in fact a street full of people.