Sexy street harassment

Barely There

Dr. Lollington wrote: »

I have a low-cut lacy black dress that I've actually never worn. I tried it on one night and my bf nearly had a heart attack. He asked me not to wear it out because it would attract too much attention and make him uncomfortable.

Your bf sounds very insecure.

kylith

Comfortable Couch wrote: »

Why should someone be obliged not to make comments to someone else? What comments specifically should be banned. That's a bit too authoritarian for my liking.

I would read that "be obliged to" as 'have the decency to'.

BoJack Horseman

Comfortable Couch wrote: »

Why should someone be obliged not to make comments to someone else? What comments specifically should be banned. That's a bit too authoritarian for my liking.

Its not about "banning".

Its about self control.

People should consult a medical professional if the mere sight of another human causes them to lose the run of themselves.

kylith

Comfortable Couch wrote: »

Accept you can't control other people, you can control yourself and how you deal with unwelcome comments.

Exactly, you can't control how other people dress, you can only control yourself and how you interact non-intrusively with other people by, for example, not making unwelcome comments to them.

Last_Minute

Are there any women in this thread who might not see themselves as pretty or good looking in this thread who would actually like to recieve comments from guys such as the ones in the video?

eviltwin

Comfortable Couch wrote: »

Accept you can't control other people, you can control yourself and how you deal with unwelcome comments.

So if someone is rude to me that's my responsibility? You can't just shout out anything you want to someone because you feel like it. We have to filter our words. We do it all the time and just accept that as normal polite conduct. It doesn't make it any more acceptable if the target of your comment is a woman.

Billy86

Meangadh wrote: »

Weird thing is that the whole "sure you're wearing a tight top/short skirt, men are bound to comment" thing is actually kind of null and void considering that regardless of what a woman is wearing, they can get comments. I've been wearing the baggiest mankiest clothes and zero makeup going down the street and still gotten creepy comments.

I just don't understand the mentality of someone who just says random things to random people, regardless of the intention. Besides, do these men think that these women are going to strike up a conversation with them then? Or what is the point of making the comment? Maybe I'm cynical, but something tells me these men aren't doing it just to be friendly and hoping to strike up a conversation.

I would actually pass comment the very, very odd time, but not like the lads in the video - more so if someone just looked a bit down and if it didn't involve shouting at or stopping them on the street (also not if I was with friends). I would however always make an effort to disqualify myself right off the bat ("look I'm not trying to give off the wrong impression/get your number/I have a girlfriend/etc.... but just had to say you're looking wonderful, have a good day"). Like I said I only do it the rare time but I've never had a negative reaction from it for whatever reason.

Now if I were trying to chat someone up, commenting on their looks would be one of the last things I would start off with! :pac:

kylith

Comfortable Couch wrote: »

People are entitled to make comments to other people.

And I'm entitled to point out to you that the majority of women in this thread have said that such comments make them uncomfortable, at least, and that by insisting that you have the right to make such comments despite this you are revealing yourself to be an unpleasant person with no regard, respect, or empathy for other people in general or women in particular.

You are literally saying "I will say whatever I like about you and your appearance, and I don't give a sht how it makes you feel".

Barely There

Last_Minute wrote: »

Are there any women in this thread who might not see themselves as pretty or good looking in this thread who would actually like to recieve comments from guys such as the ones in the video?

Are you offering your services?

BrokenHero

Paige Brave Poker wrote: »

if I'm with a man (particularly my brother or boyfriend, both of whom are fairly big fellahs) the likelihood drops to near zero. Everyone comes down with a fierce dose of self-control/stinginess with compliments when they're going up against somebody their own size, funny that.

lol.

Yeah, cause them thinking one of the guys is either your boyfriend or husband wouldn't have anything to do with it.

andrew

Comfortable Couch wrote: »

Why should someone be obliged not to make comments to someone else? What comments specifically should be banned. That's a bit too authoritarian for my liking.

Because making comments in passing to someone you don't know which you know makes them uncomfortable or scared is a crappy thing to do. I'm not saying it should be illegal (because that's not practical), I'm just saying you shouldn't do it. And if you didn't before, now you know it makes women uncomfortable, because this thread and that video have told you it does.

Smiles35

I had an Aunt that emigrated to Boston. ''Get a life, freshy'' was her line.




Died a spinster.

RoboRat

People are entitled to make comments to other people.

Disagree, so if you see an overweight person you are entitled to say 'hey fatty, do some exercise' or 'hey gonzo, get a nosejob' to somebody with a big nose.

I have had my fair share of dealings with ignorant women in pubs/ clubs... saying hello and being told to fcuk off. I have an issue with that as I think a pub/club is an acceptable place to try and meet somebody and you don't know their relationship status so a simple 'sorry, I'm with somebody' would suffice but I think that every women has the right to be able to walk down the street without having to listen to what a bloke thinks of them.

I don't think that a bloke saying Hi or hello is harassment but anything about a woman's appearance is, be it good or bad.

eviltwin

Comfortable Couch wrote: »

Do you want to live in a world where it is illegal to be rude?

Who said anything about making it illegal?

Pat Mustard

Comfortable Couch wrote: »

Do you want to live in a world where it is illegal to be rude?

It would be interesting if there was one day a year where it was illegal to be rude.

Also, it might stimulate the economy by creating opportunities for lawyers and Gardai.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

BrokenHero wrote: »

lol.

Yeah, cause them thinking one of the guys is either your boyfriend or husband wouldn't have anything to do with it.

So what? "show us your tits" is a chat up line is it? So it's something you only say to women who are clearly single? People check my finger for a ring before they tell me to smile do they? Is it a bigger nono to pay a "compliment" to a woman who's already taken than to pass comments that are clearly making a single woman uncomfortable?

Lol indeed. Cop on to yourself.

FactCheck

Last_Minute wrote: »

Are there any women in this thread who might not see themselves as pretty or good looking in this thread who would actually like to recieve comments from guys such as the ones in the video?

Every single woman I know receives these comments regularly. Regardless of what she looks like. I would say the very young, the very beautiful, and the very fat receive more but everybody gets some. I suspect race plays a part too - I have a very beautiful friend who is Asian and walking around Paris with her was genuinely frightening to me at times.

The main variable isn't women and what they do/how they dress. As others have already said, it's the men and where they are and what they're doing. It is much less common in general in Ireland. It is widespread in cities on the Continent. Cities in the US are more variable - there are some neighbourhoods were it is constant and some where it isn't present at all. Drink plays a factor, especially in Ireland. It is also widespread in certain communities - I'm deliberately not saying races, because it's definitely not that simple - it's a community and an attitude thing, much more nuanced than skin colour.

BoJack Horseman

Comfortable Couch wrote: »

How do you know they lost the run of themselves, maybe they make the conscious choice to make a comment.

A conscious choice to harass is no more noble or acceptable.

FunLover18

I don't understand how people can be so defensive about their right to 'compliment' a complete stranger. I never do it and I never would because I have no idea how they would take it or what they might read into which is fair enough. They know nothing about me or my intentions and so if there's even a chance of making them feel uncomfortable or harassed what's the point? I don't think there's anything PC about it it's just common sense in my book, yet the way people are going on about it you'd swear it was the death of society.

Tasden

Comfortable Couch wrote: »

Accept you can't control other people, you can control yourself and how you deal with unwelcome comments.

I have a seven year old. She plays out in the garden and regularly comes in whinging about one of the kids saying something mean and yep you're right I do tell her she and I cant control what other people do or say to her but that she should tell them that its not nice and how it makes her feel when they do that so they know not to do it again.

If one of the kids came to me and said that she had called them names, would I tell them "deal with it, I cant control what she says, get over it", no! I'd teach her common decency, that she should care about how her actions make others feel and that she shouldn't be saying things that might hurt them.

Two way street kind of thing. Women do learn how to deal with the comments and how it makes them feel- having a system re taxis and getting in and out at certain stops so nobody is left alone with a leery taxi man, having a phone up to their ear while walking alone, walking where certain street lights/main roads are if its dark even if its the longer route. Half of the stuff some women feel they have to do because the "responsibility is on them to prevent some pervert who cant control his urges". Your argument is very close to "she wore a short skirt, she was asking for it" btw. Or is it only with comments that men cant control themselves?

If my 7 year old can learn to be decent and when to keep her mouth shut so can a grown man tbh.

andrew

Comfortable Couch wrote: »

"It makes women uncomfortable", I didn't realise women had one hive mind.

This thread has ample evidence that it does make women uncomfortable, including many comment from women who have literally said that it does, which far outweigh any positive view of catcalling.

But lets take your argument that women aren't a hive mind at it's strongest. That would mean that some, maybe even more than 50%, like being catcalled. Even then you shouldn't catcall. Why? because some don't like it. If there's a reasonable chance that you might make someone uncomfortable by doing something you don't have to do, then you shouldn't do it.

People shouldn't do it but it shouldn't be illegal. That's reality.

I'm not, and nobody has said, it should be illegal. I'm saying people shouldn't do it.

eviltwin

Last_Minute wrote: »

Are there any women in this thread who might not see themselves as pretty or good looking in this thread who would actually like to recieve comments from guys such as the ones in the video?

I'd consider myself very average looking and I'm older so I never get compliments but if I was subjected to something like this I'd feel very intimidated and uncomfortable.

KERSPLAT!

MOD

Comfortable Couch banned, rereg.

Billy86

RoboRat wrote: »

Disagree, so if you see an overweight person you are entitled to say 'hey fatty, do some exercise' or 'hey gonzo, get a nosejob' to somebody with a big nose.

I have had my fair share of dealings with ignorant women in pubs/ clubs... saying hello and being told to fcuk off. I have an issue with that as I think a pub/club is an acceptable place to try and meet somebody and you don't know their relationship status so a simple 'sorry, I'm with somebody' would suffice but I think that every women has the right to be able to walk down the street without having to listen to what a bloke thinks of them.

I don't think that a bloke saying Hi or hello is harassment but anything about a woman's appearance is, be it good or bad.

Personally I think most places are perfectly "acceptable" to meet people in, but much of Ireland seems to have a bit of a weird hangup that drink must be involved which I'm not a fan of. A girl I was seeing for a while in Australia for example I just met in the park one afternoon and got chatting to. Over here a lot of people just shut down in that sense which really is odd to me, but there we go. But I guess that's a different matter for a different thread...

Meangadh

FunLover18 wrote: »

I don't understand how people can be so defensive about their right to 'compliment' a complete stranger. I never do it and I never would because I have no idea how they would take it or what they might read into which is fair enough.

This is exactly my point of not understanding people who even go to the bother of commenting on the women as they go past. You don't know them. It's weird. I know to get to know people someone has to break the ice, but a random comment as they walk past doesn't really cut it in my book.

Generic Dreadhead

Do we need one of these ridiculous forced "what happens will shock you" videos every ****ing day?
Yesterdays was a guy pretending to be homeless asking a homeless guy for food.
Tomorrows will be something else.

This whole thing is the definition of:
Storm in a Teacup

Lets all get rabble roused cause someone contrived to film something on the street

BrokenHero

Sam Kade wrote: »

What's so great about this woman that she attracts attention? She's plain enough in my view.

Just shows what a sweet shop the western world is for average looking women.

I see nothing wrong with the 'Hello' and 'Hi' stuff. Women are constantly saying they would like guys to approach them in everyday life and not when drunk in clubs and so there they are doing it.

As for the sleazy comments, well there are sleazy guys in the world, so I guess you have to take the good with the bad. I think they're just dickheads tbh and most likely wouldn't be much good to any women that did respond to their comments. No idea how donating to a feminist group is gonna stop sleazy guys from being sleazy though.

I'll tell you one thing though. I know a driver for Devine's (he's been with them for a long time) and from what I hear, women have no problem saying sleazy stuff to famous rich guys when they're in town and out and about in Dublin trying to shop or get something to eat during the day. They make all sorts of sexual suggestions to them by all accounts, slip phone numbers into their shirt pockets and many are not at all shy about letting their hotel and room numbers be known.

With my own eyes I've seen Russell Brand get cat called, have his arse pinched on a road just off Grafton St, by what must have been five or six different groups of women as he walked towards the Westbury and yes, I know he's famous and so that's "different" but is it really all that different? I mean, the fact that women will behave this same way when they deem a man worthy of it means that it's not a behavior exclusive to males. Girls with scream and holler after famous boys, and women will throw themselves at famous men. So it's all just really a case of what each sex feels it is is that makes someone worthy of them behaving in this manner. With men, it appears to be just someone that they want to shag but with women it appears that there is more to it than just that. Fantasy of being with someone rich and famous?

In any case, quit male-slut shaming.

magma69

So greeting someone 'good morning' sexual harassment? I'd feel like a proper cnut if someone said that to me and I just ignored them tbh. Obviously some of what was said was harassment too.

kiffer

I saw someone comment yesterday that 100 comments in 10 hours is only one comment every six minutes.
...
It takes me half an hour to walk from the luas to my home. On the way home the only people (unless I run into friends) who talk to me in the street are Chuggers... maybe one or two a day. Chuggers are immensely annoying.
Imagine running into a Chugger every 6 minutes.
In my 30 minute walk home that would be five chuggers.
And I don't mean the people standing with buckets shaking them I mean the "stand in your way, attempt to get eye contact, walk a few feet alongside you even after you've said no" chuggers.

That sounds awful.
For the chuggers and the men in the street passing comments the situation is in many ways similar.
Saying something to get a flicker of attention from a passer by is a zero cost action.
Otherwise literally no one would talk to them.
One guy could say "Damn, you're sexy" to a thousand women, annoying the crap out of half of them, irritating another 495 of them... but if five of them find him attractive enough to go "oh you..." and one of them sleeps with him it's been a success (for him).

shuffles88

Gone Drinking wrote: »

I dunno, one of the ones on video was "Hey Beautiful, have a good day", would that fall under harassment?

Its intimidating, even if they mean no harm. I went to New York this summer alone, on my first evening I went for a walk and I'd estimate at least 6 men made comments like this to me. The thing I noticed was it was usually a group of 2 or 3 men that made these comments so you can understand how a simple remark like that can feel unwelcome when you are alone.

andrew

BrokenHero wrote: »

I know he's famous and so that's "different" but is it really all that different? I mean, the fact that women will behave this same way when they deem a man worthy of it means that it's not a behavior exclusive to males. Girls with scream and holler after famous boys, and women will throw themselves at famous men. So it's all just really a case of what each sex feels it is is that makes someone worthy of them behaving in this manner. With men, it appears to be just someone that they want to shag but with women it appears that there is more to it than just that. Fantasy of being with someone rich and famous?

Well it's very different because:

1. People like Russel Brand are the exception not the rule - men rarely get harassed. In contrast, most women have experienced some form of harassment.
2. When men do get harassed, that's also a bad thing that shouldn't happen.
3. Women harassing men is less bad, because men don't have to worry that a given woman might threaten him or hurt him, given most men are significantly stronger than any given woman (any exception you could give to this will invariably be an exception which proves this rule)

In any case, quit male-slut shaming.

This isn't male slut shaming. It's shaming people for harassing others, not for being a slut.

OldNotWIse

Trade Execution wrote: »

Is saying hello to a woman harassment?

I have a really funny reply that I can't type because I'll get killed!

*dies inside*

andrew

Trade Execution wrote: »

Is saying hello to a woman harassment?

That depends entirely on the context. Concieveably, there are situations in which it could reasonably be construed as harassment, e.g. walking down a street, alone, at night while a dude stares at you and mutters 'hello.' That'd be pretty creepy, no? Or Walking past a group of lads, who have continued to chat amongst themselves while numerous other people walk by. But you walk by and they all stop talking, turn to look at you, and one of them says 'hello'. Also a bit weird, no?

Tiddlypeeps

BrokenHero wrote: »

I mean, the fact that women will behave this same way when they deem a man worthy of it means that it's not a behavior exclusive to males.

It's not behaviour exclusive to males. The conversation in this thread so far has been framed in a way that pains a scenario of men catcalling women, but I don't think at any point people were saying this is acceptable behaviour for women but not men. Deliberately forcing another person into an obviously uncomfortable situation for no reason other than your own amusement makes you an asshole no matter what gender you are.

I've been part of a few hen parties and the way some women feel it's acceptable to act towards men just because it's a hen party is disgusting. Some men are into it and play along for the craic, but most are very obviously uncomfortable and try to ignore or try to get away as quick as they can.

IamtheWalrus

Billy86 wrote: »

They must have finished work very early that day if the construction site was still open by the time they had finished drinking.

A lot of construction is done at night when businesses are closed.

biko

Trade Execution wrote: »

Can someone define harassment?

It's like when someone is asked to leave, then showed the door but they just keep popping up yknow?

smoking_kills

andrew wrote: »

That depends entirely on the context. Concieveably, there are situations in which it could reasonably be construed as harassment, e.g. walking down a street, alone, at night while a dude stares at you and mutters 'hello.' That'd be pretty creepy, no? Or Walking past a group of lads, who have continued to chat amongst themselves while numerous other people walk by. But you walk by and they all stop talking, turn to look at you, and one of them says 'hello'. Also a bit weird, no?

Trade Execution wrote: »

Is saying hello to a woman harassment?

Yes, and looking at them is Stare Rape......eyes down and try not to walk into a lamp post.

RoboRat

Billy86 wrote: »

Personally I think most places are perfectly "acceptable" to meet people in, but much of Ireland seems to have a bit of a weird hangup that drink must be involved which I'm not a fan of. A girl I was seeing for a while in Australia for example I just met in the park one afternoon and got chatting to. Over here a lot of people just shut down in that sense which really is odd to me, but there we go. But I guess that's a different matter for a different thread...

I agree and you're spot on that we have a hangup that drink must be involved but to say hello to somebody in a park/bus/train/whereever and strike up a conversation is one thing, to say Daummn you're fine or ask a woman outright for her phone number is another thing... and walking beside her for 5 mins is just damn stalkerish.

bear1

I'm curious, have any men here ever had this sort of attention from women? Or is it predominantly a male thing to do?

RoboRat

I've been part of a few hen parties and the way some women feel it's acceptable to act towards men just because it's a hen party is disgusting. Some men are into it and play along for the craic, but most are very obviously uncomfortable and try to ignore or try to get away as quick as they can.

This is very true, been out a few times and if I done to a woman what was done to me, I would be up for sexual assault.

I'm curious, have any men here ever had this sort of attention from women? Or is it predominantly a male thing to do?

A few instances with hen nights and a few when I have been out cycling. Got my ass pinched many times in pubs, hopefully by women but regardless of gender, it shouldn't happen.

kiffer

andrew wrote: »

Well it's very different because:

1. People like Russel Brand are the exception not the rule - men rarely get harassed. In contrast, most women have experienced some form of harassment.
2. When men do get harassed, that's also a bad thing that shouldn't happen.
3. Women harassing men is less bad, because men don't have to worry that a given woman might threaten him or hurt him, given most men are significantly stronger than any given woman (any exception you could give to this will invariably be an exception which proves this rule)

This isn't male slut shaming. It's shaming people for harassing others, not for being a slut.

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. ... The knife is a great leveler. The strength levels of men and women are closer than people think. Much like videos of cats chasing off bears I wouldn't put as much stock in the size/wieght/strength differences. Having been kicked in the crotch and punched in the face by a number of Irish women over the years I can say that what they lack in upperbody strength they make up for in a willingness to harm.
I remember one night one of the girls decided that she thought it would be hallarious to bite the face of one of the lads... using her teeth she opened up a a gash across his cheek just under his eye, she also used her nails a lot. I still have a scar from the time we played basket ball and she decided that stripping the ball meant grabbing my wrist with one hand and raking my forearm with her other hand's nails, then picking the ball up afterwards. After 18 years or so it's faded a bit but it's still visible.
I've no doubt that these women are exceptions to the rule as well... but the idea that these actions are less serious because men are, in general, tall and stronger is just weird.

Irish Stones

Gone Drinking wrote: »

I dunno, one of the ones on video was "Hey Beautiful, have a good day", would that fall under harassment?

Basically this is how I stopped a girl on the street and then she became my wife

razorblunt

bear1 wrote: »

I'm curious, have any men here ever had this sort of attention from women? Or is it predominantly a male thing to do?

Yeap, tons of stares.

Me fly was open.

Irish Stones

bear1 wrote: »

I'm curious, have any men here ever had this sort of attention from women? Or is it predominantly a male thing to do?

Yes, I had!
And it was absolutely embarassing...

Donnielighto

Is it ok to comment on a particular item of clothing? I love funky clothes and have asked on a few occasions where stuff was bought other times I would have just said something like great hat etc, thats hardly an issue is it?

bear1

Irish Stones wrote: »

Yes, I had!
And it was absolutely embarassing...

What happened?

RoboRat

Women harassing men is less bad, because men don't have to worry that a given woman might threaten him or hurt him, given most men are significantly stronger than any given woman (any exception you could give to this will invariably be an exception which proves this rule)

A lot of women are a lot more inclined to strike a man in public because they know, should he strike her back, there will be a lot of people there to intervene - I have seen this first hand on many occasion when I worked the door.

I have also had a drink thrown over me when I told a woman on a hen night to piss off grabbing my ass and subsequently got thrown out of the pub because she said that I was harassing her.

Its not all about size, there are other social issues to contend with.

magma69

andrew wrote: »

That depends entirely on the context. Concieveably, there are situations in which it could reasonably be construed as harassment, e.g. walking down a street, alone, at night while a dude stares at you and mutters 'hello.' That'd be pretty creepy, no? Or Walking past a group of lads, who have continued to chat amongst themselves while numerous other people walk by. But you walk by and they all stop talking, turn to look at you, and one of them says 'hello'. Also a bit weird, no?

First example most certainly isn't harassment. A lot of people say hello or give a smile when passing others at night. It's happened to me loads of times from both women and men. I suppose as a way of showing you're not a threat.

Sounds if you had your way, men and women could not communicate at all with each other unless they know each other. This alienation and paranoia of each other is terrible for society. One of the few positive things about this country is the warmth and friendliness people. In New York nobody makes eye contact with each other. It's horrible.

If someone, man or woman, is uncomfortable with someone saying hello to them, then I'd suggest them getting some therapy because that isn't a normal reaction.

SVJKarate

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

This is why some men see nothing wrong with making comments! To be so lacking in empathy as to fail to see why making these comments would make a woman uncomfortable is one thing, but to be so stupid as to think a woman should be 'happy to get the compliments' because you don't think she's hot is frightening!

The comments in the video were for the most part not compliments. "Hey, D-A-M-N!!" is not a compliment; it is a public declaration of arousal. Any woman should be quite concerned to hear such a thing unless she is actually looking for it, which on the street is almost never.

She was walking with determination at a pace which clearly signalled an intent to go somewhere, which should have been a clear indicator that she did not want to interact with strangers on the way. Had she been hanging around a park smiling sociably at strangers it's fair to say she may have been open to receiving chat-up lines.

Paying a compliment is only considered genuine if it is specific, courteous and spoken in a friendly tone. If a woman is standing in a checkout queue and another woman smiles to her and says "Oh I love your shoes" it's a non-threatening compliment. A man loudly saying "Hot DAMN!" as he stares at her breasts / face / legs / hips is not going to seem like a compliment.

As others have said though, this video is imbalanced and made purely for the purpose of being shocking. Yes, the behaviour of the men in the video is brutish, and in some cases worryingly creepy, but on any given day a woman will most likely also receive courteous, genuine, caring and empathetic attention from men who hold doors open, offer their umbrellas, offer them discounted prices on shop goods or freebies with their coffee etc. I'm not suggesting that this makes it okay for others to cat-call, what I'm saying is that among the population of men there are as many (probably more) decent & caring men as there are idiots.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

RoboRat wrote: »

A lot of women are a lot more inclined to strike a man in public because they know, should he strike her back, there will be a lot of people there to intervene - I have seen this first hand on many occasion when I worked the door.

I have also had a drink thrown over me when I told a woman on a hen night to piss off grabbing my ass and subsequently got thrown out of the pub because she said that I was harassing her.

Its not all about size, there are other social issues to contend with.

Not sure if it's just an Irish thing because of the whole respect your elders being pretty big here, but middle-aged women definitely exploit the power dynamic between them and young boys. I'm sure we've all seen some woman getting way too far into the personal space of a fellah thirty years younger than her and making suggestive comments. Any eejit can see the poor lad is very uncomfortable but she knows he's not going to tell his auntie's friend or whatever to fúck off, and she can just pass it off as "teasing".