The Cost of Contraception

meeeeh

sunshine and showers wrote: »

Because it's cheaper to the state than the cost of more children. Because it would reduce teen pregnancy rates, unwanted pregnancies and abortion numbers. Because it's the least the government could do if we're not even going to be allowed to vote to make abortion legal anytime soon.

Mostly because sex is a reality of life and access to education and contraception for people so they engage in safer sex can only be a good thing for the population as a whole.

Britain has access to free contraception and one of the highest rates of teen pregnancies in OCDE (besides nz and USA).

Edit: I am all for free contraception but in a system that is equitable for everybody. Not that someone has to earn about 28k per year to actually pay for them to work. So if they finance it from the cuts to social welfare or medical card entitlements then fine, but I am certainly not in favour of another tax or levy on private insurance.

sunshine and showers

meeeeh wrote: »

Britain has access to free contraception and one of the highest rates of teen pregnancies in OCDE (besides nz and USA).

Yes, but their rate has been decreasing. It's currently at a forty year low. It has fallen 38% since 1998 alone. That's since the implementation of the 1999 Teenage Pregnancy Strategy.

A decrease of close to half in 15 years is pretty impressive. There's also more involved to combating teenage pregnancy, but free contraception is a really good place to start.

Also the study in the USA I quoted about falling teen pregnancy rates was heavily influenced by the choice of contraception young women made. The majority chose long term options like the implant or the coil. I believe such options are being promoted on the NHS, because it could save them £100 million a year.

I think they should be free in the same way long-term illness medications are free, btw.

rainbow kirby

sunshine and showers wrote: »

The majority chose long term options like the implant or the coil. I believe such options are being promoted on the NHS, because it could save them £100 million a year.

When I first saw a GP over here, the implant and the Mirena coil were being pushed hard, much more than any pill.

Scarinae

rainbow kirby wrote: »

When I first saw a GP over here, the implant and the Mirena coil were being pushed hard, much more than any pill.

The first doctor I was registered with over here kept suggesting the implant as well, nobody has ever offered me the coil though. Still an improvement on some of the doctors I saw in Ireland who seemed disapproving that I was having sex at all.

The last time I moved I had to change GP as I was in a new catchment area, and in the introductory appointment the nurse couldn't understand why I wasn't on the pill. I tried explaining that my boyfriend lives abroad etc and she kept saying things like "So you're trying to get pregnant?"

(She also asked me if I could speak English when I told her I was Irish though, so I don't think she was entirely representative of medical staff)

tinz18

Scarinae wrote: »

The first doctor I was registered with over here kept suggesting the implant as well, nobody has ever offered me the coil though.

As far as I have been told and have read the coil is mostly recommended for people who have had kids and don't want anymore. In some cases if the person is a very high risk for pregnancy they can be given it.

My GP was all for giving me the implant when I first went on contraceptives (think he was a bit confused- I originally wanted the pill to control my period pain)- this is about five years ago in rural west Ireland.

Thinking of getting it now but its quite pricey- minimum of €144 with the drugs payment scheme not including insertion fees, and perhaps removal fees if I don't react well. I'm a student and I forego a lot of socializing in order to have money for essentials. Imo its preferable to the pill because once its in, there's no risk of missing the pill/ having antibiotics interfere/vomiting reducing protection (all things that contribute to unexpected pregnancies) however very few students can afford/are willing to spend that kind of money on contraception.

BTW my pill is €12 per month (not including the cost of getting the prescription in the first place) - figure I will be saving money in the long run as the implant lasts three years.

Scarinae

tinz18 wrote: »

Imo its preferable to the pill because once its in, there's no risk of missing the pill/ having antibiotics interfere/vomiting reducing protection (all things that contribute to unexpected pregnancies)

I know what you mean, but on the other hand if you don’t react well to it you have to pay to have it removed, in Ireland anyway. At least with the pill if it’s not working for you then you can stop taking it or switch to a different one. That’s why I wouldn’t be keen on the contraceptive injection either. It’s great that there are so many options though and people can choose which one works best for them.

meeeeh

sunshine and showers wrote: »

Yes, but their rate has been decreasing. It's currently at a forty year low. It has fallen 38% since 1998 alone. That's since the implementation of the 1999 Teenage Pregnancy Strategy.

A decrease of close to half in 15 years is pretty impressive. There's also more involved to combating teenage pregnancy, but free contraception is a really good place to start.

Also the study in the USA I quoted about falling teen pregnancy rates was heavily influenced by the choice of contraception young women made. The majority chose long term options like the implant or the coil. I believe such options are being promoted on the NHS, because it could save them £100 million a year.

I think they should be free in the same way long-term illness medications are free, btw.

Well Irish birth rate decreased significantly too. Similarly rates across Europe fell. While UK numbers are good in relative terms they are still bad in absolute terms.

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/teenage-pregnancy-levels-at-lowest-since-1966-cso-report-28902205.html

Btw contraception is already free(ish) for the groups that are the most prone to teenage pregnancy and frankly I think money would be better spent educating kids. As for free contraception, I just can't see how middle-class kids should be on priority list when so many services have to be paid for.

tinz18

Scarinae wrote: »

I know what you mean, but on the other hand if you don’t react well to it you have to pay to have it removed, in Ireland anyway. At least with the pill if it’s not working for you then you can stop taking it or switch to a different one.

Unfortunately I only have two choices for the pill (Progesterone only pills) so no switching for me. Noriday is okay but the window is only 15mins so its very very easy to miss a pill even though I'm good at timekeeping- so I switched to Cerazette once I became sexually active. Cerazette has the 12 hour window but it can have adverse effects too such as constant or very frequent bleeds (imo the lucky ones get no bleeds). Since I've limited options, I'm willing to chance the implant and hope that I won't have an adverse reaction. I considered the injection but at least the implant can be removed if there's issues.

Malari

tinz18 wrote: »

Unfortunately I only have two choices for the pill (Progesterone only pills) so no switching for me. Noriday is okay but the window is only 15mins so its very very easy to miss a pill even though I'm good at timekeeping- so I switched to Cerazette once I became sexually active. Cerazette has the 12 hour window but it can have adverse effects too such as constant or very frequent bleeds (imo the lucky ones get no bleeds). Since I've limited options, I'm willing to chance the implant and hope that I won't have an adverse reaction. I considered the injection but at least the implant can be removed if there's issues.

15 minutes! :eek: That's a very tight schedule.

Snoopy1

That's why I'm on nuvaring
I have shopped around though and now get it for 18 a month instead of 22

angeldelight

tinz18 wrote: »

Unfortunately I only have two choices for the pill (Progesterone only pills) so no switching for me. Noriday is okay but the window is only 15mins so its very very easy to miss a pill even though I'm good at timekeeping- so I switched to Cerazette once I became sexually active.

I've been on Noriday in the past, it's 3 hours not 15 minutes... Still tight!

tinz18

Hm all my doctors said 15 minutes- even the doc this morning said the same- maybe the indications changed and they didn't catch up. 3 hours at max is definitely still tight- especially if you had left it at home and had gone out for the day.

angeldelight

Strange that they think it's 15 mins, has been 3 hours for at least 8/9 years. Definitely stressful though, I was delighted when cerazette became licensed here

The Cool

I've recently come off the pill, wanting to give my body a break after a few years, and am shocked at the price of condoms now! When I was last constantly buying, they were maybe 14-15 euro for a box of 12 or 14? And you'd often get a deal of 2 boxes for 16 quid in Boots. I see now, in Boots or Tesco they're 19.99. What happened there?! I was last relying on condoms 2 and a half years ago, before going on the pill though would always have a box handy just in case. I think this price hike is quite recent?

Ocean Blue

The Cool wrote: »

I've recently come off the pill, wanting to give my body a break after a few years, and am shocked at the price of condoms now! When I was last constantly buying, they were maybe 14-15 euro for a box of 12 or 14? And you'd often get a deal of 2 boxes for 16 quid in Boots. I see now, in Boots or Tesco they're 19.99. What happened there?! I was last relying on condoms 2 and a half years ago, before going on the pill though would always have a box handy just in case. I think this price hike is quite recent?

I think you're shopping in the wrong places! Lots of pharmacies will have durex for 9.99, 11.99 etc. That would be standard price in some places, special offers in others. You might pay 16.99ish for some of the fancier varieties but I've never in 14 years of working in pharmacies sold condoms for 19.99. Defo shop around more, there's obviously enormous price variation!

YumCha

tinz18 wrote: »

As far as I have been told and have read the coil is mostly recommended for people who have had kids and don't want anymore. In some cases if the person is a very high risk for pregnancy they can be given it.

FYI - the coil (copper, Mirena, whatever that new one is) is for all intensive purposes available to everyone same as any other kind of contraception - subject to individual circumstances.

I've no kids and have been on the Mirena for over 5 years as I've endometriosis and heavy periods (so going non-hormonal is not an option) and had previously had bad reactions to 8 diff types of pill, the implant, and the nuva ring.

Penny Tration

YumCha wrote: »

FYI - the coil (copper, Mirena, whatever that new one is) is for all intensive purposes available to everyone same as any other kind of contraception - subject to individual circumstances.

I've no kids and have been on the Mirena for over 5 years as I've endometriosis and heavy periods (so going non-hormonal is not an option) and had previously had bad reactions to 8 diff types of pill, the implant, and the nuva ring.

Depends on your doctor. Mine refuses to refer me to get a coil in because I haven't had kids.

My only other option due to genetic risks is the pop.

Cerazette works brilliantly for me, thankfully. No awful periods (pcos makes them a bitch), just the odd breakthrough bleed every few months.

Only issue I have with it is that I've developed very mild acne, whereas I NEVER got spots before. The stuff my doc gave me didn't help so I'll have to get something else to get rid of it.

Tbh though, I'd choose a few tiny spots over no Cerazette any day.

Malari

You could always get a second opinion GS. I had two GPs suggest the coil to me although I've not had kids either.

YumCha

Also you don't need a referral - you can go to any Wellwoman clinic if you're in Dublin.

Penny Tration

YumCha wrote: »

Also you don't need a referral - you can go to any Wellwoman clinic if you're in Dublin.

Can you? My younger sister was sent to the rotunda for hers (funnily enough, referred by the doctor who refused me, even though my sister was a 17 year old virgin!).

I did ask two other doctors in the surgery, and they refused on the basis that I hadn't had children, also.

Didn't realise well woman do it. I live around the corner from one, so i might pop in and discuss it.


If it's a non-hormonal coil, I presume I can continue to take Cerazette with it?

Faith

The copper coil is a complete non-hormonal contraceptive. You wouldn't need to take cerazette with it, and I'm pretty sure you shouldn't also.

YumCha

Yep - have a look here: http://wellwomancentre.ie/index.php?p=services

The Cerazette question is really one for a doctor. All I know about the non-hormonal coil is that it wasn't an option for me because I have heavy painful periods. Also far as I know both the Mirena and Jaydess are progesterone only - although they use Levonorgestrel as opposed to Desogestrel which is in Cerazette.

Penny Tration

Thanks, ladies.

Trip to my local well woman is in order

pwurple

skallywag wrote: »

It's difficult to argue against free contraception.

The thing is though, how could Ireland possibly afford such an initiative at the moment? What would we rob from in order to pay for it, and would that then be accepted by the vast majority of the country?

I think it's quite easy to argue against free contraception. There is enough pressure on women already to avoid children. Women get snide comments at work about how they are taking a holiday if they have a baby... I was once told I should join the sterilisation team, because I was pregnant when I already had a child at home. My friend was told "that's your career over so" when she told work she was pregnant. Add another layer of "why are you pregnant when contraception is free" to it, and we are approaching the google heights of freezing womens eggs so they don't have kids on their time.

I'm all for controlling my own fertility and cycles, but encouraging a drop in the birth rate is lunacy. We can't even afford the services we want because of our low population density.

Snoopy1

I think that's bs
I get questioned all the time as to why I don't have or want kids. It's feels like I'm abnormal to not want kids.
I'd love to be sterilised to end all this buying contraception every month.
I don't think they are trying to make us into a child less society if they were there wouldn't be so many benefits for people that have kids

Penny Tration

Have to agree with snoopy.

Your friend's boss who said that to her about her career is an ass.

But, I notice women being looked down upon if they choose not to have kids.

Doctors don't think I can have them, or at least, I have a very reduced chance of having them. Fine by me, as I don't want any.

However, every single woman I know thinks I'm bonkers for not wanting kids, or that I'll change my mind. I'm 25, I realised when I was 12 that I didn't want them. It's not going to change!

Luckily, my boyfriend agrees with me, and doesn't want them either. Our mothers though - jesus christ. Constant comments from both about how we need to hurry up and give them grandchildren. Apparently we are obliged to provide one grandchild, because we're very unfair if we don't. Even my friends (all bar one have kids) question why I haven't had a child yet, just because I'm in a relationship.

meeeeh

Snoopy1 wrote: »

I don't think they are trying to make us into a child less society if they were there wouldn't be so many benefits for people that have kids

I would like to know what those fabulous benefits are?

Anyway I don't think limiting the access to contraception will solve the aging population problems. Especially in case of teen pregnancies there is a huge likelihood that you are creating future dole customers anyway.

Edit: I will say that external pressure can be a significant thing. I come from a country that has one of the lowest teen pregnancy rates in Europe. And while access to contraception is important, there is also societal pressure not to have kids too early. I don't know anyone who would get pregnant and decided to keep a child before reaching twenty. I know almost nobody that would decide to keep a child unless they are in stable relationship. It happens sometimes but those who do, usually have very strong family support. I know women get all the time asked about children but those who decide to keep a child in their teens are usually just branded an idiot.

Snoopy1

I'm not getting into politics but women on the dole seem to get more and more money every child they have. They get everything paid for them.

meeeeh

Snoopy1 wrote: »

I'm not getting into politics but women on the dole seem to get more and more money every child they have. They get everything paid for them.

I agree but they are hardly universal benefits for having children.

NZ_2014

green_screen wrote: »

However, every single woman I know thinks I'm bonkers for not wanting kids, or that I'll change my mind. I'm 25, I realised when I was 12 that I didn't want them. It's not going to change!

Luckily, my boyfriend agrees with me, and doesn't want them either. Our mothers though - jesus christ. Constant comments from both about how we need to hurry up and give them grandchildren. Apparently we are obliged to provide one grandchild, because we're very unfair if we don't. Even my friends (all bar one have kids) question why I haven't had a child yet, just because I'm in a relationship.

Emigrate and get away from their silly opinions on your life

Morag

We get damned for not having kids and damned if we do, tbh such attitudes are bull**** and yes I agree with free contraception but we also need better childcare options.

www.femplus.ie will fit a copper coil IUCD or a Mirena IUS to women who are suitable who have not had kids.

eviltwin

Snoopy1 wrote: »

I'm not getting into politics but women on the dole seem to get more and more money every child they have. They get everything paid for them.

:rolleyes: Sigh. No they don't. Its a myth that people on the dole / lone parents and anyone else you want to add into that group get everything for free.

pwurple

Snoopy1 wrote: »

I think that's bs
I get questioned all the time as to why I don't have or want kids. It's feels like I'm abnormal to not want kids.
I'd love to be sterilised to end all this buying contraception every month.
I don't think they are trying to make us into a child less society if they were there wouldn't be so many benefits for people that have kids

Excuse me? Which part do you think is BS? Both google and facebook apparantly offer egg freezing, unless you are saying I'm lying about my own experiences.

What benefits are you even talking about? Is it the 1400 euro a month part time creche fees I'm paying?

There should be incentives for people to have children, because we die off the planet without another generation. And if anything, it should be the educated working law abiding taxpayers who should be encouraged to reproduce. Removing tax benefits (was done years ago), cutting maternity benefit from working women, reducing child benefit... It all erodes away, making things more and more difficult. Adding free contraception would be more of it... The expectation again, that you should take it because it's free, and hence, incentivised.


A choice is a different ball game to an incentive.

(And anyone who tells people they SHOULD have children, deserves to be in the same bucket as the people who tell me I should not)

Snoopy1

If your moaning that much about having kids, don't have them

NZ_2014

pwurple wrote: »

There should be incentives for people to have children, because we die off the planet without another generation.

Really? I don't think we will die off any time soon!

Population in the 1920s hit 2 billion. 7 Billion around 2010. Projected to hit 12 billion by 2100.

meeeeh

Snoopy1 wrote: »

If your moaning that much about having kids, don't have them

You made a dumb statement about benefits, now you are dismissive of real issues that working women face instead of being grateful that they still want to have children who will pay for your pension and fund your medical bills in future. So what is your agenda? To attack every woman that made different life choices as you?

Dolbert

NZ_2014 wrote: »

Really? I don't think we will die off any time soon!

Population in the 1920s hit 2 billion. 7 Billion around 2010. Projected to hit 12 billion by 2100.

There's a declining ageing population in Europe. It's a real potential problem in this part of the world.

NZ_2014

Dolbert wrote: »

There's a declining ageing population in Europe. It's a real potential problem in this part of the world.

Its interesting how for thousands of years only two children survived until adulthood. Recently with Improved healthcare and faster methods of food production etc the population has exploded as shown in Image below. Many studies show how unsustainable things have become globally.

The aging population is partly a result of recent generations having very large families.
I see your point though that it will create problems.Work to be done!

meeeeh

I would be surprised if the bit about large families actually holds for continental Europe. I think after ww2 the size of families drastically declined. Ireland is actually an exception in Europe in comparison to the continent.

Anyway migration will solve some problems but there is a problem of cultural clashes. There is a point when main culture isn't able to absorb the influx of different value systems. And I think Europe is anxious to hold on to a model of secular welfare state.

Morag

Ireland has more families which have 4 or more kids then any other country in the EU.
I reckon the lack of access to all possible reproductive choices plays a part in this.

But Ireland only has a population of about 4.5 million it's had 6.5 million previously in 1841.

pwurple

Snoopy1 wrote: »

If your[sic] moaning that much about having kids, don't have them

Where was I moaning about having kids? I was pointing out that your impressions of the financial benefits are incorrect.

skallywag

Snoopy1 wrote: »

I'd love to be sterilised to end all this buying contraception every month

So why not do so then? Is it offered in Ireland? (I know it's on the NHS).

Penny Tration

skallywag wrote: »

So why not do so then? Is it offered in Ireland? (I know it's on the NHS).

If you're female, under the age of thirty, and don't have kids or medical conditions making it dangerous for you to conceive, it's damn near impossible to get a sterilisation unless you pay privately.

My boyfriend is in his 30s and can't even get the snip!

skallywag

Jingle_Balls wrote: »

If you're female, under the age of thirty, and don't have kids or medical conditions making it dangerous for you to conceive, it's damn near impossible to get a sterilisation unless you pay privately

I can see how sterilising a healthy woman who is under 30 could be a heavy ethical issue for the medical profession.

Morag

skallywag wrote: »

I can see how sterilising a healthy woman who is under 30 could be a heavy ethical issue for the medical profession.

Bullcrap it's not in many other EU countries.

skallywag

Morag wrote: »

Bullcrap it's not in many other EU countries.

I fail to see how your comment is relative at all to a doctor having ethical reservations in performing such a procedure on a healthy woman?

Regardless of whether the procedure is offered in a country or not, the moral dilemma will still hold.

Dial Hard

skallywag wrote: »

I fail to see how your comment is relative at all to a doctor having ethical reservations in performing such a procedure on a healthy woman?

Regardless of whether the procedure is offered in a country or not, the moral dilemma will still hold.

How is there a moral dilemma involved if it's the woman in question's informed choice?

Morag

skallywag wrote: »

I fail to see how your comment is relative at all to a doctor having ethical reservations in performing such a procedure on a healthy woman?

Regardless of whether the procedure is offered in a country or not, the moral dilemma will still hold.

This is not a individual drs dilemma this is the entire HSE having a blanket policy of not allowing women to make their own choice about controlling their fertility.

skallywag

Morag wrote: »

This is not a individual drs dilemma this is the entire HSE having a blanket policy of not allowing women to make their own choice about controlling their fertility.

The HSE website states the following:

Surgeons are more willing to perform sterilisation when women are over 30 years old and have had children.

This would imply to me that there is no blanket policy per se, but rather that it comes down the ethical decision taken by the individual surgeon?

pwurple

How much does sterilisation cost privately?

I don't really see why it should be funded publically either. I'd put it up there with a boob-job in terms of public health priority. If someone needed it for health reasons, certainly, but not for lifestyle reasons.