BMW timing chain problem

dricco

Sorry to be digging up an old thread but

I've a 2011 520d(Manufactured in April) 68,000 miles bought a month ago privately. The car has a full BMW service history. It was bought from Joe Duffy dealership in Dublin with a 2 year service pack which ran out in April this year.

I noticed a timing chain noise a few weeks ago and brought it to motorpark (BMW service center) here in Galway. They say it needs a timing chain and kit and it would cost €5,000. BMW are refusing to give a goodwill payment towards the repair, still fighting with them but all they are saying is that it was bought privately and not through their dealerships.

I quoted their press release and said it has nothing about being bought privately and my car should meet their requirements for goodwill (relatively low mileage and full BMW service history) but all i get is "it was bought privately". I really don't know what to do now, anybody got any advise??

biko

Moved to own thread.

Did you also contact Duffy in Dublin or even BMW Ireland? I wonder if "bought privately" is even covered in some clause somewhere or are they just chancing it.

dricco

Have been onto their customer service department who said "bought privately so no goodwill". I asked to speak to his manager and was called by the Irish customer service manager who said the same thing "bought privately so no goodwill" over and over again. She wouldn't even go back to the warranty department to contest. She said "they would contact me if my circumstances change"

Bigus

I think I'd be going legal , car is effectively not fit for purpose,

Try and get a fixed price from a solicitor to get it to court, and maybe get a media company involved too, or maybe that RTE programme that got renault to pay for window regs, or consumer affairs first .

I think it's time for a class action type action FAcebook page going against BMW timing chain issues.

Truckermal

Bigus wrote: »

I think I'd be going legal , car is effectively not fit for purpose,

Try and get a fixed price from a solicitor to get it to court, and maybe get a media company involved too, or maybe that RTE programme that got renault to pay for window regs, or consumer affairs first .

I think it's time for a class action type action FAcebook page going against BMW timing chain issues.

FFS a car only 3 years old and you could say the engine is fcuked I would be speaking to a good solicitor at this stage. Funnily enough a Indy mechanic was telling me he had a client in lately with a 12 reg 520 and the chain was rattling mad in it...

bazz26

Cannot help you with the legal side of who would be liable but OP if you are stuck paying for this then the chain can be replaced by an indy garage these days for between €1700 and €1900. Best of luck.

Decka

Yeah shop around on price, that sounds like mad money for that, i think the timing chain is at the back of the engine and the engine has to come out but still 5000 is a crazy price

Dr Turk Turkelton

Truckermal wrote: »

FFS a car only 3 years old and you could say the engine is fcuked I would be speaking to a good solicitor at this stage. Funnily enough a Indy mechanic was telling me he had a client in lately with a 12 reg 520 and the chain was rattling mad in it...

Would a 12 reg not be the newer model with a different engine?

keano25

So basically a full service history with BMW counts for noting if you buy private.

I'd be making everyone aware of this via Facebook, media etc. and BMW are bound to lose a pile of business with servicing when an Indy will do a service for half of what BMW will.

No point in bringing your BMW that was bought privately to a main dealer and paying through the nose for a service everytime and when something goes wrong they give you the finger.

TBi

I bought my mini private and got goodwill work done on it. Possibly because I had history with the garage from a previous BMW. Try a different BMW garage. Some are better than others.

Also 5k is the cost of the full fix which includes a new crankshaft (it's the cog on this which causes the problem). Usually the 1.5k fixes just replace the chain but not the crankshaft so the problem will reappear.

robtri

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

Would a 12 reg not be the newer model with a different engine?

OP said 2011.. april reg
which is more than likely the N47 engine, which has the timing chain issues

Dr Turk Turkelton

robtri wrote: »

OP said 2011.. april reg
which is more than likely the N47 engine, which has the timing chain issues

I quoted Truckermals post he said he had been talking to a mechanic who had seen it on a 12 reg 520d.

bazz26

N47 engine has been around since about Sept 2007 and has only recently been replaced by the B47 engine.

Voodoomelon

OP, I would hate to be in your position. And you have my utmost sympathy.

But if you are a second owner and the car is out of warranty, by law, you aren't entitled to anything.

A solicitors letter as others are suggesting is going to achieve nothing.

Even if you get good will towards a €5000 bill, you'll still get it done cheaper from a good independent.

Best of luck.

galwaytt

dricco wrote: »

Sorry to be digging up an old thread but

I've a 2011 520d(Manufactured in April) 68,000 miles bought a month ago privately. The car has a full BMW service history. It was bought from Joe Duffy dealership in Dublin with a 2 year service pack which ran out in April this year.

I noticed a timing chain noise a few weeks ago and brought it to motorpark (BMW service center) here in Galway. They say it needs a timing chain and kit and it would cost €5,000. BMW are refusing to give a goodwill payment towards the repair, still fighting with them but all they are saying is that it was bought privately and not through their dealerships.

I quoted their press release and said it has nothing about being bought privately and my car should meet their requirements for goodwill (relatively low mileage and full BMW service history) but all i get is "it was bought privately". I really don't know what to do now, anybody got any advise??

MotorPark quoted another guy out this way 6k for the same problem on an 08 320d. A local garage did an effective repair for half that. That said very very poor form on BMW's part.

MetzgerMeister

I have a 335i that I bought from an independent dealers in Dublin. I'm the 2nd owner of the car. As some people know, the wastegates in the turbos of the 335i go kaput and the solution is to replace the turbos. Even though it's a fault that's been there since the car was built (i.e. not fit for purpose) and the car had a full BMW service history, they gave me no hop at all.

My only saving grace is that BMW remanufacture these turbos and sell them for less than half what a new one would cost and you send them back your busted ones. Still cost me 2 grand of my own money altogether to buy both turbos and for labour.

You're not alone when it comes to this OP and as Voodoomelon said, you also have my utmost sympathy.

galwaytt

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

I have a 335i that I bought from an independent dealers in Dublin. I'm the 2nd owner of the car. As some people know, the wastegates in the turbos of the 335i go kaput and the solution is to replace the turbos. Even though it's a fault that's been there since the car was built (i.e. not fit for purpose) and the car had a full BMW service history, they gave me no hop at all.

My only saving grace is that BMW remanufacture these turbos and sell them for less than half what a new one would cost and you send them back your busted ones. Still cost me 2 grand of my own money altogether to buy both turbos and for labour.

You're not alone when it comes to this OP and as Voodoomelon said, you also have my utmost sympathy.

Indeed, BMW - The Ultimate Fixing Machine.

Their bikes are not dissimilar. ..

unkel

dricco wrote: »

I've a 2011 520d(Manufactured in April) 68,000 miles bought a month ago privately. The car has a full BMW service history.

dricco wrote: »

BMW are refusing to give a goodwill payment towards the repair, still fighting with them but all they are saying is that it was bought privately and not through their dealerships.

That doesn't seem right. First of all, did you check the date of manufacture through the VIN of your car? I was under the strong impression that any of them manufactured from 2011 did not develop the chain problem

Secondly, BMW seem to pay all or nearly all of the costs out of goodwill for out of warranty cars with full BMWSH and under 100k miles. Your car should qualify. Forget about Joe Duffy or your Galway BMW dealer, contact BMW Ireland

Out of interest, I take it your car is a manual and not an automatic?

Keep us informed and best of luck!

bazz26

From what I have been hearing BMW tend to pay goodwill towards the parts, however dealer labour is normally not covered by them or at least all of it. It's a fairly labour intensive job and I've heard labour costs of +€2k by main dealers.

unkel

We've all heard different things, but if I were the OP, I would contact BMW Ireland and I would expect to get my (low mileage, fully BMW serviced) car fixed for nothing, or very little. Certainly nowhere near €5k. Although obviously the car is nearly 4 years old and well out of warranty.

johnobertie2

Voodoomelon wrote: »

OP, I would hate to be in your position. And you have my utmost sympathy.

But if you are a second owner and the car is out of warranty, by law, you aren't entitled to anything.

A solicitors letter as others are suggesting is going to achieve nothing.

Even if you get good will towards a €5000 bill, you'll still get it done cheaper from a good independent.

Best of luck.

Incorrect
The car is not fit for purpose
He has a case especially as car has been main dealer serviced

Voodoomelon

The Sale Of Goods Act does not apply to second hand goods bought from a private individual. The car does not have to be "fit for purpose" as it is three and half years old and out of warranty.

Dealer service history in some cases gets you good will, but it is just that, good will and not required to be offered under law.

jetfiremuck

I am going to suggest this. See if you can contact the previous seller......see if you can arrange that he owns the car. Have him bring it in to another dealer..wortlh a chance...id play them at thier own game. Car private or dealer is only a dodge to pay for defective materials. Id be pissed

Special Circumstances

galwaytt wrote: »

Indeed, BMW - The Ultimate Fixing Machine.

Their bikes are not dissimilar. ..

"Known issue you say? No no never heard of that happening. You may have driven by someone using the incorrect oil in their car at some stage. That'll be X grand please."

Truckermal

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

Would a 12 reg not be the newer model with a different engine?

I thought so too..

bazz26 wrote: »

N47 engine has been around since about Sept 2007 and has only recently been replaced by the B47 engine.

How recent is recent as I was under the impression the F10 didn't suffer from this.

Oafley Jones

Truckermal wrote: »

I thought so too..




How recent is recent as I was under the impression the F10 didn't suffer from this.

April 11 on was generally considered safe owing to a slight redesign, but there are reports surfacing that the problem is still there even in newer cars. Wouldn't touch a BMW with an N47 with a barge pole. New B47 engine didn't launch till this year.

Blazer

That's bloody awful luck Op..as one poster said contact BMW Ireland directly than via main deal.
Tweeting to them over social media gets a rapid response whether good news or bad etc.
Shocking that this engine still have the timing chain issue 3 years later and in a newer model.
Glad I went to a M57 engine instead of going for the reg number.

Also there's a chap called Vanas I think on bmwhaus.ie and bmw-drivers.net who fixes these..worth giving him a bell or dropping him a PM to see the repair costs.

dricco

unkel wrote: »

That doesn't seem right. First of all, did you check the date of manufacture through the VIN of your car? I was under the strong impression that any of them manufactured from 2011 did not develop the chain problem

I know, i thought the model didn't need the timing chain issue, as it was 17.03.2011 production according to the VIN when i looked it up.

What the BMW service press release said about that production model

"No repairs are allowed in vehicles with production date after 03/2011 and vehicles in which all existing measures have already been made. The sound now is the moment, the normal state of this world! No risk of broken chain!"

But i'm unsure as to what exactly "all existing measures have already been made" means

The good news I've found out is that BMW say (via a BMW forum and not BMW directly as they tell you nothing) is that this model and newer ones don't need the crank replaced, just the chain and kit.

dricco

Blazer wrote: »

That's bloody awful luck Op..as one poster said contact BMW Ireland directly than via main deal.

Tried that and managed to speak to the Customer Service Manager for Ireland but all she did for twenty minutes over and over again was that "it was bought privately". Like speaking to a politician, was very frustrating. All this and i'm trying to save for a wedding next May.

dricco

Thanks to all the posters, great to get everyone opinion. It all helps.

I think my next plan of action is to try and get the guy I bought it from to help (3 weeks ago).
He bought it originally from Joe Duffy in Dublin and I hope he still is a valued customers.
If he can put some pressure on Joe Duffy to fight my case with BMW Ireland, then I might get some goodwill.

I feel the dealership here in Galway as I didn't buy it from them, don't really care.

MetzgerMeister

dricco wrote: »

I know, i thought the model didn't need the timing chain issue, as it was 17.03.2011 production according to the VIN when i looked it up.

What the BMW service press release said about that production model

"No repairs are allowed in vehicles with production date after 03/2011 and vehicles in which all existing measures have already been made. The sound now is the moment, the normal state of this world! No risk of broken chain!"

But i'm unsure as to what exactly "all existing measures have already been made" means

The good news I've found out is that BMW say (via a BMW forum and not BMW directly as they tell you nothing) is that this model and newer ones don't need the crank replaced, just the chain and kit.

That's AFTER 03/2011 (i.e. from April onward) whereas yours IS 03/2011

boosabum

I had a similar type issue but luckily enough the car was under warranty (bought privately after being imported), only had the car a few weeks. Dropped it into my local BMW dealer and got a new engine. I used to speak to a guy based in the UK (although he kept saying he was in Dublin) and between him and the local dealer, they both seemed to say that BMW were big on the goodwill for this issue so i'm surprised your getting such a negative response.
Try other BMW dealers and see, make sure your the registered owner on the BMW website too as they tend to chaeck this first.

Stallingrad

Sorry for your trouble OP. You'd really want to be off your head to buy a BMW diesel these days.

Moneymaker

Unreal that such a "premium" brand had an issue this serious for so long.

And the general public think these 4 cylinder tractors are the best thing since sliced bread.

German Engineering is such a fallacy.

landmarkjohn

Stallingrad wrote: »

Sorry for your trouble OP. You'd really want to be off your head to buy a BMW diesel these days.

The more I read on this issue the more incredulous it seems, and for the issue to carry on for years..... is it really a design issue or are these extended oil changes to blame?

Anyone know how the equivalent Mercedes E class is stacking up against the 520D, it must have it beat on reliability anyway?

dr.fuzzenstein

This is in German, but this issue is, of course, well known in Germany:
http://www.1erforum.de/der-1er-bmw/n47-diesel-ubersicht-steuerkette-schabt-rasselt-gelaengt-gerissen-136698.html

boosabum

Watchdog on BBC had a big piece on it too last year so it's well know in UK also

There's a crowd in the UK that will do the full rebuild for £2,500. I'd say they have had a lot of business and are good at it at this stage.

When i brough my car in with an odd noise, BMW knew straight away. They said it could never recall all cars and work on the "goodwill" policy to solve failures people might have.

This issue certainly sours any owners relationship if the full cost has to be taken, considering they are a nice car to drive.

I took out an extended warranty and a friend of mine bought a 320D lately and took out the warranty also just in case issue happened too.

It's worth doing but in the OP's case, it's too late for that advice

Paddy@CIRL

Funnily enough, whilst the issue appears to be most prevalent on the N47 engines, it does affect the larger six cylinders and even the petrol models as well. You just don't hear about it as much because there were considerably more x16, x18 & x20 diesels sold here.

I'm quite grateful that my own car was before this era of issues, but that was more luck than anything else as I didn't hear of this issue until long after I purchased. It definitely will affect what car I buy next seeing how poorly BMW Ireland treat their customers.

Stallingrad

Paddy@CIRL wrote: »

I'm quite grateful that my own car was before this era of issues, but that was more luck than anything else as I didn't hear of this issue until long after I purchased. It definitely will affect what car I buy next seeing how poorly BMW Ireland treat their customers.

Between Nikasl problems, Vanos failures and now this you have to time your purchase of a BMW very carefully. I think the last safe time to do so was between 3.30pm and 4.00pm, one Tuesday back in 1988.

Stallingrad

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

This is in German, but this issue is, of course, well known in Germany:
http://www.1erforum.de/der-1er-bmw/n47-diesel-ubersicht-steuerkette-schabt-rasselt-gelaengt-gerissen-136698.html

F10/F11 affected as well, unbelievable. To be unable to rectify a problem known about for so long, time to fire some marketing people and hire some more engineers.

dr.fuzzenstein

One wonders though. The Wright Brother's plane had an engine with a timing chain in 1903. You think that in over 110 years the technology would be pretty much perfected. How did BMW manage to fcuk up a century of development?

George Dalton

johnobertie2 wrote: »

Incorrect
The car is not fit for purpose
He has a case especially as car has been main dealer serviced

Nice theory but have you any evidence of a successful real world example?

Drummerboy08

George Dalton wrote: »

Nice theory but have you any evidence of a successful real world example?

I know a lad down the battle cruiser who told me he got a million quid in damages from BMW cos he was so upset about the chain going.

Now he had a few Britney Spears on board so maybe the million quid bit might be a hundred grand but still. And he told me from his own mouth so it must be true.

Special Circumstances

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

One wonders though. The Wright Brother's plane had an engine with a timing chain in 1903. You think that in over 110 years the technology would be pretty much perfected. How did BMW manage to fcuk up a century of development?

There's still nissan sunnys going on the same chain they came with, when did the last of those roll off the line? 20 years ago? Ultimate driving machines lad.

I kinda hope that accountants were to blame at bmw. Worrying if there were no concerns raised by engineers.

landmarkjohn

Paddy@CIRL wrote: »

it does affect the larger six cylinders and even the petrol models as well

:eek:
really? Gulp... (not feeling quite so smug with 3.0 petrol!)

MetzgerMeister

landmarkjohn wrote: »

:eek:
really? Gulp... (not feeling quite so smug with 3.0 petrol!)

Mine has the N54 engine so timing chain is at the front if it ever does go wrong. In the diesels, it's as the back so the whole engine has to come out which makes it so expensive.

John_Mc

Have the N47 engine and have been worried since I found out about this issue. Time to purchase extended warranty while I still can!

Ferris

The BMW specialists on BMW-driver attribute a lot of the timing chain wear to the bonkers oil change intervals that BMW and most other manufacturers specify.This is done to sell cars to fleet buyers due to the 'reduction' in the cost of ownership. I wonder how many cars have this issue that have been serviced every 10k mls.

Source from user BavarianCare (albeit about turbos but mentions timing chains):

http://www.bmw-driver.net/forum/showthread.php?t=106409


Good thread about chain failures on the M57 from ValdelisBMW:

http://www.bmw-driver.net/forum/showthread.php?t=103194

keano25

I had a 08 520d with the chain issue. I bought it in February 2009 with 36k up on it.

Personally I serviced the car every 7.5k or 8k miles, by service I mean oil and filter. Some say overkill but at around €75 euro a service I thought it was worth the piece of mind of my engine.

I owned the car until this year when I sold it with 120k miles to a friend and it never gave an ounce of bother.

So maybe there is something in the regular oil change and timing chain.

unkel

I also have my own thoughts about oil service intervals and I don't believe in long life oil servicing. I change oil + filter in my own cars every 6k miles or 1 year, whichever comes first.

Ferris

keano25 wrote: »

I had a 08 520d with the chain issue. I bought it in February 2009 with 36k up on it.

Personally I serviced the car every 7.5k or 8k miles, by service I mean oil and filter. Some say overkill but at around €75 euro a service I thought it was worth the piece of mind of my engine.

I owned the car until this year when I sold it with 120k miles to a friend and it never gave an ounce of bother.

So maybe there is something in the regular oil change and timing chain.

So the car had the issue, you fixed it and then serviced it every 7.5k or 8k miles?

Either way, fair play to you. I've just bought a 530d and i'll be doing the same as you as regards regular servicing.