Breeders Cup Weekend

ShaneU

Bobbys Kitten, amazing finish

Gregk961

Had Daredevil punted already and got a free bet refund off NoNayNever so threw it on Carpe Diem as cover. Hard to pick a clear danger out of the rest but perhaps One Lucky Dane is the one. Would be genuinely suprised if The Great War was good enough

Andalucia

how good is American Pharaoh giving he beat that easy winner
Pletcher pair very disappointing

Harry Angstrom

Peintre Celebre wrote: »

What a great turn of foot by Bobby's Kitten. If there was betting in running No Nay Never would have got done at very short there.


Connections of the winner must be absolutely kicking themselves having run it at the wrong trip all year. Suppose that victory will be a very nice consolation

If Sir Mark Prescott was training it, they'd say he deliberately ran it over the wrong distance

Francie Barrett

At least the rides are better tonight, can have no arguments with the winners so far. My night starts here though, have Telescope, Secret Circle, Mustajeeb and Toast in the last 4 races. Telescope looks the

Andalucia

think Flintshire will beat Telescope owing to the pace in the race

Harry Angstrom

Both horses could be exposed by something with a turn of foot.

tryfix

Dodgy....

Andalucia

hard to beat the Americans horses, the drugs they have available is surely putting them at an artificial advantage

jimjamcos

The juice has made some job of that animal. The Yanks have mentioned the great training performance by Motion and the fact he's now got fast ground roughly 37 times since the race, but given the horse was beaten over 10l by feckin Ektihaam on GF while in Europe, anyone who belives that is deluded.

Hopefully Toronado can show them. Think his price is just too big now.

BumperD

He was gelded after moving to US. Maybe that had more of an impact.

FIVE2_THREE

BumperD wrote: »

He was gelded after moving to US. Maybe that had more of an impact.

The lasix and bute helped even more

BumperD

Perhaps. But as we've learned, it's not exclusive to the U.S. at least they are open about its use.

Back to the racing, fancy big marcher in the next back at 6f.

Andalucia

jimjamcos wrote: »

The juice has made some job of that animal. The Yanks have mentioned the great training performance by Motion and the fact he's now got fast ground roughly 37 times since the race, but given the horse was beaten over 10l by feckin Ektihaam on GF while in Europe, anyone who belives that is deluded.

Hopefully Toronado can show them. Think his price is just too big now.

don't see the track suiting Toronado, going to be a little outpaced around the tight turns, not going to suit his style of race

Given Weld has never had a breeders cup winner, I cant fancy Mustajeeb, though the track will suit him much better

Obviously would not want to get too much rope up front, as could well make all - those injections make some difference to the imports !!

the pin has come down on the french filly Veda, will like the ground and has decent prospects of a mild surprise

FIVE2_THREE

BumperD wrote: »

Perhaps. But as we've learned, it's not exclusive to the U.S. at least they are open about its use.

Where else can a trainer use drugs without paying the consequence ? If you think main sequence became a "Monster" because his balls were cut off then you are not paying close attention.

DylanAFC

Wonder is that Coolmore/Baffert horse up to much?

jimjamcos

BumperD wrote: »

He was gelded after moving to US. Maybe that had more of an impact.

Was he not gelded for his final (poor) runs in England?

Francie Barrett

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

The lasix and bute helped even more

Most of the European horses (Dank, Chiquta) ran with Lasix as well.

Andalucia

cant compare a horse getting it for a few days to those using it for months

BumperD

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

Where else can a trainer use drugs without paying the consequence ? If you think main sequence became a "Monster" because his balls were cut off then you are not paying close attention.

U.K.? Ireland? Dubai? Appears there is a big problem going on undetected for years. Anyway, I was just pointing out he was gelded and that may have improved him. Perhaps the drugs did the trick? I don't care to be honest. I know the U.S. horses have an advantage with lasix etc. Were you not aware of this before?

FIVE2_THREE

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Most of the European horses (Dank, Chiquta) ran with Lasix as well.

Whats your point ? if you drink once a year does that make you an alcoholic ?

FIVE2_THREE

BumperD wrote: »

U.K.? Ireland? Dubai? Appears there is a big problem going on undetected for years. Anyway, I was just pointing out he was gelded and that may have improved him. Perhaps the drugs did the trick? I don't care to be honest. I know the U.S. horses have an advantage with lasix etc. Were you not aware of this before?

Sure you care. that's why you're responding. I worked in american racing for 20 years I know who the players are and what they are all about and who is undetected ? name some names. who are the drug trainers in Europe and Dubai who haven't been caught ?

BumperD

jimjamcos wrote: »

Was he not gelded for his final (poor) runs in England?

I heard on nbc before the race that he was gelded after his last run in Europe, maybe they were wrong but that's what they said. Anyway, he improved, be it for lasix ior getting his knackers chopped off or a combo of both. I would not have backed him on form. Never. But that's the breeders cup, slightly uneven playing pitch

BumperD

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

Sure you care. that's why you're responding. I worked in american racing for 20 years I know who the players are and what they are all about

Fair enough.

Francie Barrett

Andalucia wrote: »

cant compare a horse getting it for a few days to those using it for months

A few days is all you need though, right? A horse on Lasix is likely to run about a stone stone lighter within a very short time of use.

FIVE2_THREE

Francie Barrett wrote: »

A few days is all you need though, right? A horse on Lasix is likely to run about a stone stone lighter within a very short time of use.

Horses who use lasix piss out up to 25 pounds of water/Hydration. European horses run hydrated and most are not used to being dehydrated come race time. while horses in America are used to it because they get lasix every time they run. the shot is given 2 hrs before the race.

Andalucia

horses on Lasix basically run de-hydrated, hence the excessive weight loss
they are not given access to water for four hours after being administered the drug

BorneTobyWilde

I like Tom's Tribute. Mike smith won on him before and it seem to have a good attitude .
20-1 ew 11.40

BumperD

Will Europe draw a blank? Last chance saloon it would seem in the next.

unitedrover

Lasix is not the full problem as to the Europeans lack of success. Who have they had that was really expected to win that didn't? No one really.


Having said that I hope Toronado cruises home here, with his friend Lasix.

unitedrover

BumperD wrote: »

Will Europe draw a blank? Last chance saloon it would seem in the next.

There surely going to win this. Surely.

FIVE2_THREE

unitedrover wrote: »

Lasix is not the full problem as to the Europeans lack of success. Who have they had that was really expected to win that didn't? No one really.


Having said that I hope Toronado cruises home here, with his friend Lasix.

They are sending their A string while Europe is sending it's B and C string its that simple.

FIVE2_THREE

Andalucia wrote: »

horses on Lasix basically run de-hydrated, hence the excessive weight loss
they are not given access to water for four hours after being administered the drug

That's what I said

BorneTobyWilde

Kaigun ew 33-1 11.40
I think it has a place chance.Stays on

BorneTobyWilde

Toranado lost it in the bend

DylanAFC

Disaster for Toronado. Not sure what Hughsie was up to at the start of the race.

Francie Barrett

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Toranado lost it in the bend

Lost it before that. Hughes watched the other races and produced the horse early thinking if it got out in front in an ideal position then it wouldn't be beat. The fact that Trade Storm finished ahead of it showed just how badly Hughes judged the ride.

jimjamcos

Andalucia wrote: »

don't see the track suiting Toronado, going to be a little outpaced around the tight turns, not going to suit his style of race

Given Weld has never had a breeders cup winner, I cant fancy Mustajeeb, though the track will suit him much better

Obviously would not want to get too much rope up front, as could well make all - those injections make some difference to the imports !!

the pin has come down on the french filly Veda, will like the ground and has decent prospects of a mild surprise

FairPlay you called it, bend blew it. Not sure about Hughes tactics early on though.

Peintre Celebre

I got slated before for saying this, take Hughes out of his comfort zone and he can be very average. He is not near an outstanding jockey. Moore,Kinane, Murtagh are or were streets ahead

Harry Angstrom

Not sure what Hughes was thinking there. Absolute stinker of a ride.

Warper

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Not sure what Hughes was thinking there. Absolute stinker of a ride.

Hughes is not a world class jockey

roy rodgers

I going with v.e day e/w for this one

Harry Angstrom

Warper wrote: »

Hughes is not a world class jockey

I never for a minute thought he was, but I at least thought he would be capable of giving Toronado a half-capable ride.

UrbanFret

Peslier who has been world class not at his finest there either.

Warper

This flat season reminds me of Mayweather v Pacquiao, a lot of horses just avoiding each other.

Warper

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

I never for a minute thought he was, but I at least thought he would be capable of giving Toronado a half-capable ride.

Hughes outside of GB forget about it. He is fine around Windsor on a hotpot

BumperD

the lucky last of the breeders cup, after some big priced winners, who knows the winner of the bumper?

unitedrover

Warper wrote: »

This flat season reminds me of Mayweather v Pacquiao, a lot of horses just avoiding each other.

And not one big clash from this season to watch on the YouTube.

Harry Angstrom

Warper wrote: »

Hughes outside of GB forget about it. He is fine around Windsor on a hotpot

He hasn't got a brain. His default position is to ride from the back and hope to get the breaks. He is absolutely no judge of pace from the front, which is the true mark of a great jockey. He's no Steve Cauthen, that's for sure.

DylanAFC

I'd love to back Toast of New York but Jamie Spencer.