The Winter Bulk of a Newbie Lifter

Aspiring

Chest/Triceps:

Flat bench:
3x3x85kg (PR)

Incline bench:
1x5x40kg
1x5x50kg
1x5x60kg
1x10x50kg
1x8x55kg
1x8x50kg

Dumbbell bench:
2x10x20kg

Dips:
2x8x10kg
1x8x12.5kg

Rather than break my balls going for 3x5 with 85kg on the bench, I decided I'd save some energy for the rest of the workout. It worked well! I like the incline bench, completely different feeling to regular, with high reps you can feel it right across your upper chest into your triceps.

I also gave the leg press a go to see what it's like. Felt unnatural, but doing it slowly really hits the quads hard, so maybe some time.

Aspiring

Don't know if I can keep doing deadlifts. Had my first GAA training of the year today. It was pure cardio and my spinal erectors were in bits. It seems I've no endurance in the muscle anymore, if anyone has any tips about how to deal with this problem it'd be great.

Aspiring

Been doing a bit of thinking about how to work training and everything into a routine, I think something like this would be good, so I'll start tomorrow and see how it goes:

Monday:
Shoulders/Back

• -Military press 3x3
• -Dumbbell overhead press 3x5
• -Dumbbell overhead press 2x10 (5kg less than 3x5)
• -Lateral raises 3x15
• -Pullups 3x12 weighted
• -T-Bar rows 3x8
• -Bent over dumbbell row 3x5

Tuesday:
Training

Wednesday:
Legs/Chest

• -Squats 3x5
• -Barbell bench 3x3
• -Barbell bench 3x10 (15kg less than 3x3)
• -Incline bench 2x12
• -Dips 3x8 weighted
• -Squats 3x15 (20kg less than the 3x5)
• -Good mornings 3x10
• -Hamstring curl 3x5
• -Walking weighted lunge 3x12

Thursday:
Shoulders/Back

• -Military press 3x3
• -Dumbbell overhead press 3x5
• -Dumbbell overhead press 2x10 (5kg less than 3x5)
• -Lateral raises 3x15
• -Pullups 3x12 weighted
• -T-Bar rows 3x8
• -Bent over dumbbell row 3x5

Friday:
Training

Saturday:
Off

Sunday:
Legs/Chest

• -Squats 3x5
• -Barbell bench 3x3
• -Barbell bench 3x10 (15kg less than 3x3)
• -Incline dumbbell bench 2x12
• -Dips 3x8 weighted
• -Squats 3x15 (20kg less than the 3x5)
• -Good mornings 3x10
• -Walking weighted lunge 3x12
• -Deadlift 5x1

Kept the deadlifts in there but in the form of a 5x1. This should increase strength without actually fatiguing the muscle much.
Tried to keep a nice mix of strength/hypertrophy.
Upping calories to 4k again, just to allow for the level of cardio I'll be doing. If I'm putting on too much weight I'll cut it back.
No real isolation here, just trying to keep working on overall strength and size.
Shoulders are the day after chest, so I probably won't go too heavy on them.
I know there's not really any hope of keeping this up for a long period of time. It's just for the next few weeks to see how it goes.

Aspiring

Started the new routine today.

Military press:
1x5x40kg
1x3x45kg
1x4x45kg
1x5x45kg

Dumbbell overhead press:
1x6x20kg
3x8x17.5kg

T-bar rows:
1x5x40kg
3x10x35kg

Pull ups:
1x5
1x5x10kg
3x8

Dumbbell rows:
3x12x25kg

2 mins rest for low rep sets.
1.5 mins for high rep sets.

Aspiring

Training today.
I was nearly at the point of puking several times throughout training haven't had sessions this tough in years. You have to hate it but love it at the same time :pac:

On a side note, there was still tension in my lower back when sprinting. It wasn't as bad as last week though. I think I'll lay off the low back work and just stick to lighter squats this week.

Aspiring

Squats (wide):
2x8x80kg
1x12x80kg

Bench press:
3x3x87.5kg PR
1x8x72.5kg
1x10x70kg
1x8x70kg

Incline DB bench:
1x6x22.5kg (45 degrees)
1x8x22.5kg (30 degrees )

Barbell incline bench:
2x8x50kg
1x8x45kg

Dips:
3x8x12.5kg

Hamstring curls:
1x8x50kg
1x10x50kg
1x6x60kg

Lunges:
2x10x40kg

Plank:
1x1:30
1x1:15
1x1:00
1x1:45

Went light on the squats because of training yesterday and my back. 3 rep bench working really well, felt like I could've gone for a few more reps on the heavy set. Feels like it did when I first started

Alf Veedersane

Aspiring wrote: »

Went light on the squats because of training yesterday and my back.

You doing anything for your back? Stretching etc?

Aspiring

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

You doing anything for your back? Stretching etc?

Yeah I've been stretching I looked up some videos online. Its not really a pain just more of an inconvenience. Only pops up when I sprint, or when I run continuously for a long time. Seems to be going away now anyway

Alf Veedersane

Get a small ball into the lower back muscles as well.

Darrenon91

Can I ask what you typical daily diet is like you seem to be making some good progress. I did the same over the winter so just want to compare.

Aspiring

Darrenon91 wrote: »

Can I ask what you typical daily diet is like you seem to be making some good progress. I did the same over the winter so just want to compare.

Typical diet is as follows:

Breakfast:
4 weetabix with milk
2 slices Toast with butter
2 tbsp peanut butter

Lunch:
125g Rice
Eggs
Protein shake

Dinner:
Chicken curry/stir fry usually something with rice and chicken.
500ml Milk

Snacks:
Peanuts
Milk

I eat whatever I can to get to my daily calorie and protein goal, which is why there's so much peanuts and milk. Its not the best diet, I just love my plain foods. If you look on bodybuilding.com and the like they have daily diets and stuff depending on your goals.

Darrenon91

Ya Im pretty much the same just I was getting in alot more when I was doing it. Milk is great. I was trying to get from 100kg to 110kg. At 107 now. What is your calorie goal?

Aspiring

Darrenon91 wrote: »

Ya Im pretty much the same just I was getting in alot more when I was doing it. Milk is great. I was trying to get from 100kg to 110kg. At 107 now. What is your calorie goal?

3600, or 4000 now if I have training, how about you?

Darrenon91

ya 4100 or so.. its difficult but ive been doing ok. back GAA training aswel which is making it more difficult as I dont like training while full and find it difficult to shovel in food after. Calorie dense shakes are helping.

Aspiring

Darrenon91 wrote: »

ya 4100 or so.. its difficult but ive been doing ok. back GAA training aswel which is making it more difficult as I dont like training while full and find it difficult to shovel in food after. Calorie dense shakes are helping.

I try to get in over 2000 at least two hours before training. Then just have a banana or two in the hours before training. All I have to then is have dinner after training and I'm almost at my calorie goals.

Darrenon91

Ya I train in the evening and between breakfast lunch and snacks im usually well over 2000 come 5pm. GAA training is alot later than the time I would gym so those days differ.

Aspiring

No gym today, shoulders are way too fatigued for anything! I'll hit back and shoulders on Sunday.

I'll also be doing legs and chest Friday. So full body workout, probably very little accessory work.
I've noticed my legs are severely lagging compared to my chest in terms of strength. I think it's time to switch to a more powerlifting style routine for a while.
I was thinking 3x3 for squats and 3x3 for deads, maybe even less reps for deadlifts.
Until I can get them up to 150kg at least, so probably a few months at least (not expecting linear gains). That'd probably yield less hypertrophy than 5 rep sets but I don't think that should be a priority right now. Low reps also means less chance of form suffering, so less injury risk. For some reason I perform better in the low reps for all my lifts.

If anybody could weigh in with some advice it'd be greatly appreciated

Alf Veedersane

What structure do you have in mind?

3x3 at what % of max?

Aspiring

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

What structure do you have in mind?

3x3 at what % of max?

I don't know what my maxes are unfortunately. I was thinking of just starting with 5kg heavier than my current 5 rep weight for squats, and 10kg heavier for deads. So 105kg and 110kg respectively for 3x3.

I'd do both lifts on the same day separated as far apart as possible, on Sundays and Wednesdays, with accessory work. I know ideally they shouldn't be on the same day but there's not much volume for each.

Alf Veedersane

Aspiring wrote: »

I don't know what my maxes are unfortunately. I was thinking of just starting with 5kg heavier than my current 5 rep weight for squats, and 10kg heavier for deads. So 105kg and 110kg respectively for 3x3.

I'd do both lifts on the same day separated as far apart as possible, on Sundays and Wednesdays, with accessory work. I know ideally they shouldn't be on the same day but there's not much volume for each.

There's a lot to be said for using a 1RM calculator and then using that for a routine like Hanley's strength programme for 6 weeks.

Squats in Sunday, deads on Wednesday. On squat day you're squatting and doing 4 other exercises aimed at making the squatting muscles stronger. Same on DL day.

A structured progression that makes you stronger.

Just an idea.

Aspiring

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

There's a lot to be said for using a 1RM calculator and then using that for a routine like Hanley's strength programme for 6 weeks.

Squats in Sunday, deads on Wednesday. On squat day you're squatting and doing 4 other exercises aimed at making the squatting muscles stronger. Same on DL day.

A structured progression that makes you stronger.

Just an idea.

Using the 1RM calculator, my 1RM is 115kg, my 3RM comes out at 105kg, that's putting in 100kg as my 5RM. I dunno, I know what you've described there is a great plan, but my squat and deadlift are likely only novice standard and I think they should be trained as such, no? I think training them twice a week I can milk the linear gains which I can still make with these numbers, then move onto something like what you described after.

Alf Veedersane

Aspiring wrote: »

Using the 1RM calculator, my 1RM is 115kg, my 3RM comes out at 105kg, that's putting in 100kg as my 5RM. I dunno, I know what you've described there is a great plan, but my squat and deadlift are likely only novice standard and I think they should be trained as such, no? I think training them twice a week I can milk the linear gains which I can still make with these numbers, then move onto something like what you described after.

There's a lot of overlap between the two so it's not like you're neglecting either. Might be a different focus on certain exercises but but doing RDLs on DL for example is going to help strengthen muscles you use for squatting.

If you thought about the exercise selection on a squat day and on a deadlift day, you'd see you'd probably be more productive.

Up to you but you could see how it goes for 6 weeks. If it doesn't work (it will) the newbie gains will still be there to get

Aspiring

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

There's a lot of overlap between the two so it's not like you're neglecting either. Might be a different focus on certain exercises but but doing RDLs on DL for example is going to help strengthen muscles you use for squatting.

If you thought about the exercise selection on a squat day and on a deadlift day, you'd see you'd probably be more productive.

Up to you but you could see how it goes for 6 weeks. If it doesn't work (it will) the newbie gains will still be there to get

I think I'll give it a go. You mentioned in your log a video where a guy talks about deadlift cues (lats down). Great video. Anyway, I found an interview of him with Rippetoe, and he was talking about some scale he has of perceived difficulty of a set. Basically the more experienced a lifter is in a lift the more they will be able to tell the relative difficulty of a set, whereas a beginner would say any weight above what feels comfortable would be 10/10. I thought about it a bit, and realised that's a lot of my problem with squats and deads. I've benched much more and have come to the point where I know what's left in the tank, and what I'm capable of. I don't for the more important squats and deads. I think I just need to do the lifts and add weight each week, I've never come close to failing on squats or deads, I'm just not lifting at as high an intensity as I can.

Went off on a bit of a tangent there, but yeah I think I'll give Hanley's thing a go

Alf Veedersane

Aspiring wrote: »

I think I'll give it a go. You mentioned in your log a video where a guy talks about deadlift cues (lats down). Great video. Anyway, I found an interview of him with Rippetoe, and he was talking about some scale he has of perceived difficulty of a set. Basically the more experienced a lifter is in a lift the more they will be able to tell the relative difficulty of a set, whereas a beginner would say any weight above what feels comfortable would be 10/10. I thought about it a bit, and realised that's a lot of my problem with squats and deads. I've benched much more and have come to the point where I know what's left in the tank, and what I'm capable of. I don't for the more important squats and deads. I think I just need to do the lifts and add weight each week, I've never come close to failing on squats or deads, I'm just not lifting at as high an intensity as I can.

Went off on a bit of a tangent there, but yeah I think I'll give Hanley's thing a go

RPE (rate of perceived exertion).

Have a think about the lifts to go with the different main lifts and what you're working. Good idea to ask on the thread on it. Like on squat day you could follow squats with RDLs and lunges then the bodybuildery stuff could be hamstring curls and leg extensions or close-stance leg press. That's just an example but those 4 exercises work muscles that help the squat but pick exercises that help the squat and strengthen elements that need strengthening.

Alf Veedersane

Aspiring wrote: »

What about this?

Im thinking for squats:
A) squats
leg press
C) split squats
D) hamstring curl
E) light front squats

(Not comfortable doing leg extensions)

Deadlifts:
A) DL
Hex bar DL
C) Good mornings
D) back extensions
E) weighted glute bridge

Only problem is my hex bar DL is heavier than my DL so what would I do there?

I wouldn't have leg press in there where it is. Use it as the quad movement at the end. Maybe RDLs.
But maybe think what it was you want to work with each.

I'd have the front squats instead of hex bar DLs but that's just me. Once the exercise has a reason for being in there and will help build a better deadlift. There are a few areas you could work on so pick the weakest links in the chain and make 'em stronger

Aspiring

The progression for this program seems a bit slow. I know it's a marathon not a sprint, but having seen how much I've been able to get my bench up so far, I think maybe something like starting strength would be more suitable right now. I think it'd be great if I was stalling on a lift though. What do you think?

Alf Veedersane

Aspiring wrote: »

The progression for this program seems a bit slow. I know it's a marathon not a sprint, but having seen how much I've been able to get my bench up so far, I think maybe something like starting strength would be more suitable right now. I think it'd be great if I was stalling on a lift though. What do you think?

What's slow about the progression?

If you did go with 110 as your squat 1rm, you're at ~105 doing five doubles on week 6.

Aspiring

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

What's slow about the progression?

If you did go with 110 as your squat 1rm, you're at ~105 doing five doubles on week 6.

I know, but I just feel now is not the right time for something like this. If my squat and DL were 130kg+ maybe then, but what I have at the moment are novice lifts. I think a good solution is to try something like starting strength for a few weeks, see if I can still progress quickly, and if not come back and do Hanley's routine. I know I seem quite naive and that, in the end doing either would yield the same results a year down the road, but right now my goal is to be as strong as possible heading into the GAA season. And I think SS or something similar is best for that right now, for my squat, deadlift and my OHP also actually.

Alf Veedersane

Aspiring wrote: »

I know, but I just feel now is not the right time for something like this. If my squat and DL were 130kg+ maybe then, but what I have at the moment are novice lifts. I think a good solution is to try something like starting strength for a few weeks, see if I can still progress quickly, and if not come back and do Hanley's routine. I know I seem quite naive and that, in the end doing either would yield the same results a year down the road, but right now my goal is to be as strong as possible heading into the GAA season. And I think SS or something similar is best for that right now, for my squat, deadlift and my OHP also actually.

Up to you. I don't agree with the reasoning but you won't be weaker either way

Edit: fwiw, the program laid out by Hanley isn't for people who have advanced beyond novice stage.

Aspiring

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Up to you. I don't agree with the reasoning but you won't be weaker either way

I know. You're probably right, all I'm looking at is the short term for now, young and naive I am :pac:! As you said, I won't be weaker, and I'll probably end up doing both (and more) programs in the end. Some other good programs I've seen are WS4SB and All Pro's routines. Have to give them all a try at some stage. Thanks for your help anyway!