Jeptoo test positive

rom · 01-11-2014 4:30pm

rom wrote: »

http://www.alltime-athletics.com/mmaraok.htm

sub 2:10.27 times

127 times of sub that in 2014
215 times of sub that in 2013
228 times of sub that in 2012
219 times of sub that in 2011
185 times of sub that in 2010
145 times of sub that in 2009
131 times of sub that in 2008

interesting. I know there is a few to go this year but it will be much less that 2011-2013

Sub 2:30 female times

2014 = 125
2013 = 151
2012 = 193
2011 = 194
2010 = 127
2009 = 114
2008 = 137

No such pattern in womens marathoning. Strange when prize money is normally equal. 2011 - 2012 could simply be put down to them being olympic years. The male 2013 number seems like a big jump and a dramatic fall off this year. With 85% of the athletes achieving these male times being from Kenya I wonder what is the factor that there is a noticeable drop off.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2014/06/27/running-and-the-use-of-performance-enhancing-drugs-an-ongoing-dilemma/

"With regard to Kenya, it was reported in 2012 that its athletes were not blood tested at the domestic level, despite blood testing being crucial to help detect the endurance booster erythropoietin (EPO), blood transfusions, and human growth hormone. While the IAAF indicated it only took blood samples when Kenyans compete or train abroad, WADA highlighted the difficulty of testing in Kenya because of its remote location, transport difficulties, and costs."

http://www.runnersworld.com/general-interest/kenya-will-begin-building-drug-testing-center-in-january

perhaps this is the reason why its dropped.

Anytime I see a big drop like this it always good for the sport.

wrstan · 01-11-2014 5:57pm

Chivito550 wrote: »

I think sprinting gets a worse rep from its drug busts than other disciplines.

I don't see any evidence of that

wall.e · 01-11-2014 9:41pm

I've lived in Kenya, amongst the Kenyans. I've never seen any hard evidence there is doping, but they wouldn't be doing a good job of it if it was out for everyone to see. I'm a professional in Exercise Physiology and I know as well as anyone how life is in Kenya. It's my opinion that doping exists in Kenya and that it is larger than people would like everyone to believe.

Someone mentioned questioning the winners of marathons and included DCM. Because I am involved with the winner I thought I'd comment about our group.

Neil and I have a zero tolerance policy with the athletes in our camp. We are constantly talking in front of and to the athletes about doping. I would say our athletes are sufficiently informed on the ethical implications and the health risks involved in doping. As coaches we do everything we can to prevent doping, but in the end it is their decision.

In Dublin Eliud wasn't tested until three hours after the race. His samples weren't able to be used because they were too diluted. They ended up allowing him to leave as he was fully compliant throughout the whole process. I was a little disappointed they didn't test him sooner after the race or force him to stay until he provided a sufficient sample. I think our sport, all of sports, has come to the point that we have to be a bit ridiculous of what we ask of the athletes. They really did a good job though, I just wish it had been a little more strict. Also, I have a lot of respect for Ireland since it is pretty much the Gold Standard of anti-doping. Now when Eliud was in Indianapolis (placing 3rd) and Cleveland (placing 2nd) there wasn't even a sighting of doping control. Unbelievable!

I think we need to adopt a proactive approach as coaches and managers. A goal of mine is to get a Coulter hematology analyzer in Iten (If anyone would like to sponsor this please be in touch). I think the way it is now, innocent until proven guilty, should be changed to under question until proven clean. My idea is to start to grow a data set on the blood profiles of athletes giving us the ability to see warning signs of any funny business. All of our athletes know we will gladly report them for further investigation.

rom · 02-11-2014 1:17am

http://asheducationbook.hematologylibrary.org/content/2013/1/627.full

"A typical rHuEPO doping regime would consist of 2 administration phases. The first phase takes place several weeks before the competition and is focused on increasing hemoglobin mass. During this phase, athletes are at a higher risk of testing positive and therefore are more likely to travel to distant places with short notice to avoid testers."

"The second rHuEPO administration phase is performed closer to or during competition. Until recently, is was anticipated that rHuEPO was used out of competition when preparing for races only, but recent admissions by athletes have revealed the use of rHuEPO also in competition.7 Here, the restriction in the timing of sample collection is used to the advantage of the doping athlete. In general, doping control officers are not allowed to collect samples from 11:00 PM until 6:00 AM. Injecting a microdose of first-generation rHuEPOs in the evening shortly after 11:00 PM could theoretically be undetectable the following morning at 6:00 AM, when testers are allowed to collect samples again."

Sacksian · 02-11-2014 2:26pm

Renata Canova who used to coach Rita Jeptoo has posted extensively on Letsrun about her test and his take on doping in Kenya:

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2014/11/renato-canova-one-top-distance-coaches-world-speaks-rita-jeptoo-doping-kenya/

leftism · 02-11-2014 10:53pm

Canova's comments regarding doping in Kenya remind me of Johann Bruynell's comments regarding doping in the US Postal Team back at the turn of the century.

He has consistently denied that there is a doping problem in Kenya. Not only that, but he continues to argue that blood doping doesn't have any positive physiological effect on elites, despite all the historical evidence to the contrary. Then when faced with hard evidence and positive drug tests, he resorts to blaming Kenyans and denying any involvement from European (Italian) coaches. But we know that the scourge of EPO and blood doping originated in Italy in the late 80's. Francesco Conconi and Michele Ferrari are two names that will be etched in the history of professional cycling for all the wrong reasons. Are we to believe that Renato Canova, Federico Rosa and Claudio Berardelli are entirely different?

Regardless of the presence or absence of these coaches, the rot will continue until a robust out of competition testing system is developed in Kenya. The lessons from professional cycling have taught us that in-competition testing is totally ineffective at catching cheats. The only dopers that fail in-competition tests are poorly prepared and/or badly educated on the pharmacology. As Tyler Hamilton said "if you're stupid enough to get caught in-competition, you deserve to be banned".

In Ireland we have a robust out of competition testing system which is governed primarily by the Irish Sports Council. So most Irish athletes will face 3/4 random tests per year. But imagine if Ireland had world-class athletes that were never subjected to out of competition testing at any point in their career. That situation is a reality in Kenya and until it changes, the problem will continue...

Clum · 03-11-2014 11:43am

wall.e wrote: »

Now when Eliud was in Indianapolis (placing 3rd) and Cleveland (placing 2nd) there wasn't even a sighting of doping control. Unbelievable!

I'm delighted you said this, but disappointed that it's happening.

I wonder was Jeptoo tested for EPO after winning Chicago, just weeks after her failed test, and whether she'll test positive again.

The disqualification and subsequent suspension of Sisay after the 2011 NYC marathon made me very suspicious of the quality of testing performed at big city marathons. Sisay finished 9th but it wasn't until 6 months later he was disqualified after it was announced he failed a drug test. He tested positive for EPO.

The stories that came out at the time hinted at a tip-off and prompts to have a specific EPO test performed on his blood sample from the day, a test which supposedly wasn't the norm after the marathon. Some folk say the prompts for a specific test came after a training partner was busted shortly after the NYC marathon. The training partner didn't run NYC but took part in another major marathon that year. He tested positive for EPO in out-of-competition test, not one performed at the major marathon.

Obviously I don't have the inside information on why the disqualification took 6 months, the rumours about retrospective testing may just be rumours. But if there is any truth to the stories it'd make you wonder just how serious the really big city marathons are taking anti-doping.

(I didn't mention the training partner's name because I won't want to instigate any athlete-bashing, it's already been done.)

walshb · 03-11-2014 11:47am

wrstan wrote: »

I don't see any evidence of that

I think it probably does. For whatever reason doping seems to be more seen and associated (by the general public and casual fans) with the power and explosive events. The muscly guys and women who astound us with their feats. Also, the sprinters seem to be far more known that the distance runners.

Sandwell · 03-11-2014 4:15pm

walshb wrote: »

I think it probably does. For whatever reason doping seems to be more seen and associated (by the general public and casual fans) with the power and explosive events. The muscly guys and women who astound us with their feats. Also, the sprinters seem to be far more known that the distance runners.

I think doping is associated by those you mention with sprinting (and cycling) because it is in those sports where the household names have been caught. If Mo Farah or Bekele, for example, were to test positive that attitude would soon shift to include distance events.

Jay D · 03-11-2014 5:03pm

Are the winners of the Irish marathons tested at all?

RayCun · 03-11-2014 5:18pm

Jay D wrote: »

Are the winners of the Irish marathons tested at all?

answered upthread

Chivito550 · 03-11-2014 5:37pm

Sandwell wrote: »

I think doping is associated by those you mention with sprinting (and cycling) because it is in those sports where the household names have been caught. If Mo Farah or Bekele, for example, were to test positive that attitude would soon shift to include distance events.

Make of the below what you will.

Men's 10000m World Record Progression

27:38.35 Lasse Virén (FIN) September 3, 1972
27:30.8 David Bedford (GBR) July 13, 1973
27:30.5 Samson Kimobwa (KEN) June 30, 1977
27:22.4 Henry Rono (KEN) June 11, 1978
27:13.81 Fernando Mamede (POR) July 2, 1984
27:08.23 Arturo Barrios (MEX) August 18, 1989

* Recombinant erythropoietin (EPO) starts to become widely used *

27:07.91 - Richard Chelimo (KEN) July 5, 1993
26:58.38 - Yobes Ondieki (KEN) July 10, 1993
26:52.23 - William Sigei (KEN) July 22, 1994
26:43.53 - Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) June 5, 1995
26:38.08 - Salah Hissou (MAR) August 23,1996
26:31.32 - Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) August 4, 1997
26:27.85 - Paul Tergat (KEN) August 22,1997
26:22.75 - Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) June 1, 1998

* EPO test put in use in 2000 *

26:20.31 - Kenenisa Bekele (ETH) June 8, 2004
26:17.53 - Kenenisa Bekele (ETH) August 26,2005

Men's 1500m World Record Progression

3:32.16 - Filbert Bayi (TAN) 1974-02-02
3:32.03 - Sebastian Coe (GBR) 1979-08-15
3:32.09 - Steve Ovett (GBR) 1980-07-15
3:31.36 - Steve Ovett (GBR) 1980-08-27
3:31.24 - Sydney Maree (USA) 1983-08-28
3:30.77 - Steve Ovett (GBR) 1983-09-04
3:29.67 - Steve Cram (GBR) 1985-07-16
3:29.46 - Saïd Aouita (MAR) 1985-08-23

* Recombinant erythropoietin (EPO) starts to become widely used *

3:28.86 - Noureddine Morceli (ALG) 1992-09-06
3:27.37 - Noureddine Morceli (ALG) 1995-07-12
3:26.00 - Hicham El Guerrouj (MAR) 1998-07-14

* EPO test put in use in 2000 *

Men's 3000m World Record Progression

7:37.6 Emiel Puttemans (BEL) 1972-09-14
7:35.2 Brendan Foster (GBR) 1974-08-03
7:32.1 Henry Rono (KEN) 1978-06-27
7:29.45 Saïd Aouita (MAR) 1989-08-20

* Recombinant erythropoietin (EPO) starts to become widely used *

7:28.96 Moses Kiptanui (KEN) 1992-08-16
7:25.11 Noureddine Morceli (ALG) 1994-08-02
7:20.67 Daniel Komen (KEN) 1996-09-01

* EPO test put in use in 2000 *

Men's 5000m World Record Progression

13:16.4 Lasse Virén (FIN) 1972-09-14
13:13.0 Emiel Puttemans (BEL) 1972-09-20
13:12.9 Dick Quax (NZL) 1977-07-05
13:08.4 Henry Rono (KEN) 1978-04-08
13:06.20 Henry Rono (KEN) 1981-09-13
13:00.41 David Moorcroft (GBR) 1982-07-07
13:00.40 Saïd Aouita (MAR) 1985-07-22
12:58.39 Saïd Aouita (MAR) 1987-07-27

* Recombinant erythropoietin (EPO) starts to become widely used *

12:56.96 Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) 1994-06-04
12:55.30 Moses Kiptanui (KEN) 1995-06-08
12:44.39 Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) 1995-08-16
12:41.86 Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) 1997-08-13
12:39.74 Daniel Komen (KEN) 1997-08-22
12:39.36 Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) 1998-06-13

* EPO test put in use in 2000 *

12:37.35 Kenenisa Bekele (ETH) 2004-05-31

Sandwell · 03-11-2014 6:34pm

Chivito550 wrote: »

Make of the below what you will.

Men's 10000m World Record Progression

27:38.35 Lasse Virén (FIN) September 3, 1972
27:30.8 David Bedford (GBR) July 13, 1973
27:30.5 Samson Kimobwa (KEN) June 30, 1977
27:22.4 Henry Rono (KEN) June 11, 1978
27:13.81 Fernando Mamede (POR) July 2, 1984
27:08.23 Arturo Barrios (MEX) August 18, 1989

* Recombinant erythropoietin (EPO) starts to become widely used *

27:07.91 - Richard Chelimo (KEN) July 5, 1993
26:58.38 - Yobes Ondieki (KEN) July 10, 1993
26:52.23 - William Sigei (KEN) July 22, 1994
26:43.53 - Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) June 5, 1995
26:38.08 - Salah Hissou (MAR) August 23,1996
26:31.32 - Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) August 4, 1997
26:27.85 - Paul Tergat (KEN) August 22,1997
26:22.75 - Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) June 1, 1998

* EPO test put in use in 2000 *

26:20.31 - Kenenisa Bekele (ETH) June 8, 2004
26:17.53 - Kenenisa Bekele (ETH) August 26,2005

Men's 1500m World Record Progression

3:32.16 - Filbert Bayi (TAN) 1974-02-02
3:32.03 - Sebastian Coe (GBR) 1979-08-15
3:32.09 - Steve Ovett (GBR) 1980-07-15
3:31.36 - Steve Ovett (GBR) 1980-08-27
3:31.24 - Sydney Maree (USA) 1983-08-28
3:30.77 - Steve Ovett (GBR) 1983-09-04
3:29.67 - Steve Cram (GBR) 1985-07-16
3:29.46 - Saïd Aouita (MAR) 1985-08-23

* Recombinant erythropoietin (EPO) starts to become widely used *

3:28.86 - Noureddine Morceli (ALG) 1992-09-06
3:27.37 - Noureddine Morceli (ALG) 1995-07-12
3:26.00 - Hicham El Guerrouj (MAR) 1998-07-14

* EPO test put in use in 2000 *

Men's 3000m World Record Progression

7:37.6 Emiel Puttemans (BEL) 1972-09-14
7:35.2 Brendan Foster (GBR) 1974-08-03
7:32.1 Henry Rono (KEN) 1978-06-27
7:29.45 Saïd Aouita (MAR) 1989-08-20

* Recombinant erythropoietin (EPO) starts to become widely used *

7:28.96 Moses Kiptanui (KEN) 1992-08-16
7:25.11 Noureddine Morceli (ALG) 1994-08-02
7:20.67 Daniel Komen (KEN) 1996-09-01

* EPO test put in use in 2000 *

Men's 5000m World Record Progression

13:16.4 Lasse Virén (FIN) 1972-09-14
13:13.0 Emiel Puttemans (BEL) 1972-09-20
13:12.9 Dick Quax (NZL) 1977-07-05
13:08.4 Henry Rono (KEN) 1978-04-08
13:06.20 Henry Rono (KEN) 1981-09-13
13:00.41 David Moorcroft (GBR) 1982-07-07
13:00.40 Saïd Aouita (MAR) 1985-07-22
12:58.39 Saïd Aouita (MAR) 1987-07-27

* Recombinant erythropoietin (EPO) starts to become widely used *

12:56.96 Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) 1994-06-04
12:55.30 Moses Kiptanui (KEN) 1995-06-08
12:44.39 Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) 1995-08-16
12:41.86 Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) 1997-08-13
12:39.74 Daniel Komen (KEN) 1997-08-22
12:39.36 Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) 1998-06-13

* EPO test put in use in 2000 *

12:37.35 Kenenisa Bekele (ETH) 2004-05-31

Well yes, the caught is key. I don't doubt for one minute that many of those records are dodgy. You were bemoaning the lot of sprinting though, and the fact that it gets a bad rep with the public compared to distance events. To me that's a no brainer. It's easily explained by the fact that none of the superstars of distance running have tested positive in recent times. Sprinting on the other hand has seen a litany of star names exposed as cheats and some of them are even back competing faster than ever. Cycling's in the same boat. Hence the cynicism from the public.

Chivito550 · 03-11-2014 6:42pm

Sandwell wrote: »

Well yes, the caught is key. I don't doubt for one minute that many of those records are dodgy. You were bemoaning the lot of sprinting though, and the fact that it gets a bad rep with the public compared to distance events. To me that's a no brainer. It's easily explained by the fact that none of the superstars of distance running have tested positive in recent times. Sprinting on the other hand has seen a litany of star names exposed as cheats and some of them are even back competing faster than ever. Cycling's in the same boat. Hence the cynicism from the public.

Could you argue the point there are more so called "Superstars" in sprinting than distance running? I'm sure the average man on the street knows who Bolt, Blake, Powell and Gay are, while outside of Farah the non athletics person would struggle to name a top distance runner from today.

My personal opinion is that they are both equally dirty, but there are far more clean athletes in both than the skeptics give credit for. I'm just argueing the dumb notion that distance runners are a more honest lot. The fact is that Gay getting busted will make more noise among the general public than a Jeptoo bust, because, well, the non athletics person is more likely to know who Gay is.

wall.e · 03-11-2014 7:24pm

You can't say distance running is even slightly protected because they are a more honest lot. The mentality of these athletes is from extreme poverty. Eliud's parents have two huts made from mud with thatched roofs. Each hut has two rooms. Each room is probably no larger than your own kitchens. This is for a family of 13! Kenyans don't know anything about doping, they only see a way to make life better. Unless they are educated about it they will think everything is fine and will do anything to win, to go from nothing to something. The general education level of most of these runners is Primary level, Secondary if they were lucky. Lance did it because that was his personality, East Africans do it because in a way it is literally what they have to do to survive. I've had loads of Kenyans walk up to me on the street and ask if I could organize training and races for them. During the conversation they've slipped in "maybe you can give me something extra to help". Now why would they be asking a Mzungu (white man. foreigner.) this if it isn't Mzungu's giving it out. Distance running is no different than any other discipline of sport. You'll have the same crooks here as you do there.

Sandwell · 03-11-2014 7:56pm

I'd speculate that the only reason distance running has managed to stay relatively clean is that many of the top athletes do most of their training in countries where testing is minimal to non-existent. Random out-of-competition testing seems to be the only relatively effective way to combat blood doping.

Clearlier · 04-11-2014 10:53am

Chivito550 wrote: »

Could you argue the point there are more so called "Superstars" in sprinting than distance running? I'm sure the average man on the street knows who Bolt, Blake, Powell and Gay are, while outside of Farah the non athletics person would struggle to name a top distance runner from today.

My personal opinion is that they are both equally dirty, but there are far more clean athletes in both than the skeptics give credit for. I'm just argueing the dumb notion that distance runners are a more honest lot. The fact is that Gay getting busted will make more noise among the general public than a Jeptoo bust, because, well, the non athletics person is more likely to know who Gay is.

I think that you could argue the superstars thing but there's a little more to it than that. Also, sprinters often look different to your average person on the street whereas distance runners look relatively normal if maybe a bit skinny. If they're different they must be doing something wrong, right? There's also the hypocrisy of Gay. I think I'm allowed to say now that he has been busted that I suspected him for a long time before he got caught and I don't believe his story for a moment yet he copied the sincere behaviours of people who really were opposed to doping and had his 'trusted the wrong person' story ready to go in case he did get busted. He's the kind of guy that can destroy the sport. As if that wasn't bad enough you've got Gatlin competing again and not only that but running his fastest times ever at an age when historically everyone else who didn't dope slows down. Finally you've got the 100m in Seoul, forever a stain on the sport and on sprinting in particular.

I suppose I'd say that in addition to the superstars thing you also have a greater number of the very highest level athletes caught doping. With the obvious exception of Bolt there is a dearth of top level sprinters who haven't been caught doping at one time or another. Long distance is a different story. I've been heartened by the slew of positives coming out of Russia in particular after the introduction of the biological passport. This is the way of the future for distance running in particular.

Enduro · 04-11-2014 11:13am

Chivito550 wrote: »

Could you argue the point there are more so called "Superstars" in sprinting than distance running? I'm sure the average man on the street knows who Bolt, Blake, Powell and Gay are, while outside of Farah the non athletics person would struggle to name a top distance runner from today.

My personal opinion is that they are both equally dirty, but there are far more clean athletes in both than the skeptics give credit for. I'm just argueing the dumb notion that distance runners are a more honest lot. The fact is that Gay getting busted will make more noise among the general public than a Jeptoo bust, because, well, the non athletics person is more likely to know who Gay is.

I agree with every word of that, except for the fact that there is a dumb notion that distance runners are more honest. I've never heard that expressed by anyone except you!

My own opinion is that sprinting is in a better place than distance running since so many top level athletes are being caught. That to me is a very good thing for all the clean sprinters (i.e. the vast majority). That would at least seem to indicate that the testing procedures are working well, maybe well enough to deter the more borderline potential cheaters. It would be great if that effect could spread to all athletic disciplines.

Chivito550 · 04-11-2014 11:18am

Enduro wrote: »

I agree with every word of that, except for the fact that there is a dumb notion that distance runners are more honest. I've never heard that expressed by anyone except you!

My own opinion is that sprinting is in a better place than distance running since so many top level athletes are being caught. That to me is a very good thing for all the clean sprinters (i.e. the vast majority). That would at least seem to indicate that the testing procedures are working well, maybe well enough to deter the more borderline potential cheaters. It would be great if that effect could spread to all athletic disciplines.

Dramatic effect I guess. It's in reference to a few posters here who have come out with comments like "are they all at it?", and "I refuse to watch sprinting anymore", when a big name gets busted. Well here we are now with a huge marathon name in the same situation, and you won't get the same OTT hysteria here for this.

walshb · 04-11-2014 11:24am

Most of the people who come out with the whole "they're all at it" and "I won't watch it anymore" are casual fans who tune into the 100 metres finals every couple of years. They couldn't give a toss about anything above 200 meters.

Chivito550 · 04-11-2014 11:28am

Clearlier wrote: »

Finally you've got the 100m in Seoul, forever a stain on the sport and on sprinting in particular.

I don't see the point in bringing up an event from 26 years ago. May as well then reference the blood doping "Flying Finns" of the 70s and 80s, Ma's Army of 1993, and the EPO Era for men's middle distance running, where the men's 10000m was lowered by 45 seconds in 4 years, something which had taken 21 years before that.

Top names getting busted is good for the future of the sport. Catching cheats and detering future cheats is the whole point of anti-doping. The big issue with Gay and Gatlin is the lenient sentencing. That's not a sprinting issue, but one related to the sport in general and WADA.

Enduro · 04-11-2014 11:28am

Chivito550 wrote: »

Dramatic effect I guess. It's in reference to a few posters here who have come out with comments like "are they all at it?", and "I refuse to watch sprinting anymore", when a big name gets busted. Well here we are now with a huge marathon name in the same situation, and you won't get the same OTT hysteria here for this.

I'll grant you that I do remember one poster saying they would no longer watch sprinting alright! So I'll concede that there are small minority. Hopefully most people are smart enough to realise that athletes getting caught is actually a good thing, and the sports that one should be more suspicious of are the ones where very few are being caught.

Clearlier · 04-11-2014 11:32am

Chivito550 wrote: »

I don't see the point in bringing up an event from 26 years ago. May as well then reference the blood doping "Flying Finns" of the 70s and 80s, Ma's Army of 1993, and the EPO Era for men's middle distance running, where the men's 10000m was lowered by 45 seconds in 4 years, something which had taken 21 years before that.

Top names getting busted is good for the future of the sport. Catching cheats and detering future cheats is the whole point of anti-doping. The big issue with Gay and Gatlin is the lenient sentencing. That's not a sprinting issue, but one related to the sport in general and WADA.

Probably wasn't clear, I was trying to expand on your thoughts as to why sprinting is seen as dirtier than distance running. I wasn't trying to suggest that distance running is cleaner.

Very, very few runners have been busted for EPO. When you look at how endemic its use was in cycling it's hard to believe that it wasn't around in running circles too, particularly during the period when it couldn't be tested for.

overpronator · 04-11-2014 11:37am

Chivito550 wrote: »

Dramatic effect I guess. It's in reference to a few posters here who have come out with comments like "are they all at it?", and "I refuse to watch sprinting anymore", when a big name gets busted. Well here we are now with a huge marathon name in the same situation, and you won't get the same OTT hysteria here for this.

If she comes back and wins another couple of majors after her ban then you will have that kind of hysteria, I hope. Moreover this is for all intents and purposes a distance running board, many posters (me most certainly included) don't have an understanding or a depth of knowledge for the shorter stuff so its easier to decry sprinting from the outside, but you know that already

Any sensible person would have to be open to the likelihood that distance running has doping issues but the testing procedures and infrastructure in East Africa, on the surface at least don't appear to be as comprehensive compared to those applied in other jurisdictions. There's more to be said but I'm thinking of the charter!

rom · 04-11-2014 11:43am

http://jumpingthegun.ie/blog/2014/10/31/star-agent-distances-himself-from-doping-scandal

pconn062 · 04-11-2014 11:52am

I think I am one of the posters you are ever so subtly referring to who said they don't bother with the sprints anymore (100 and 200m anyway). I am far from a casual fan and I suppose in hindsight it was a heat of the moment reaction. However while I agree that long distance running is most likely just as dirty as the sprints I think it is the small numbers in a sprint race that make the situation seem worse to me. I made that comment while watching a race containing Gay, Powell and Gatlin, so nearly 50% of the field had recently got busted. It's a good thing to see the top names get busted but for me it's hard to enjoy watching a race when nearly half the field are convicted dopers. Does that mean in a big city marathon there aren't 3 or 4 dopers in the race? No most likely there are. But when it's spread throughout 50 runners for some reason it doesn't seem as bad. However I commend the system that has caught out the top guys in sprinting, if only they sentences were so damn lenient.

Chivito550 · 04-11-2014 12:39pm

overpronator wrote: »

If she comes back and wins another couple of majors after her ban then you will have that kind of hysteria, I hope.

There have been countless distance runners who have come back from drug bans to win medals at major championships.

Recall the women's 1500m from the London Olympics? Aslı Çakır Alptekin of Turkey, who had been banned for 2 years, between 2004 and 2006, wins the gold medal. Not only did she win, but she dropped her PB from 4:02 to 3:56 in 2012. Just like Gatlin, she was now running faster than ever before, despite having a doping conviction to her name. She was caught again in 2013, but still has not been stripped of her title.

To make matters worse, she dragged her team mate from her doping ravaged country to the silver medal. Gamze Bulut remarkably dropped her PB from 4:18 to 4:01 in 2012.

And just to throw some icing on the cake, the filthy convicted drug cheat, two time World Champion and former Olympic silver medalist, Tatyana Tomashova, finishes in 4th.

Why do I mention this event? Because I was in the stadium that night. Not in the media or anything, but as a fan. It was one of the most farcical things I have seen in sport. From a doping point of view, this is no better or worse than Seoul 1988 100m. The difference is that Seoul 88 had personalities, rivalries. It resulted in a great documentary, and a super book (The Dirtiest Race in History, highly recommend it by the way). This 1500m on the otherhand will never get the same publicity. Why? Because 2 random, out of nowhere Turks, and a wrecked looking Russian doesn't make good TV. The media has a huge role in how the public sees an event.

(Just as an aside, I actually prefer watching distance running, and always have, so I don't hold any sprint bias when it comes to elite athletics. I've lost a lot of interest in 5000m and 10000m due to the boring sit and kick races of Mo Farah in recent times, but the 800m and 1500m, followed by the 400m, are my favourite events to watch.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWzqfiWRE9Q

RayCun · 04-11-2014 12:53pm

Sprinters get more coverage because they are American, or in America's backyard.
Turkish/Kenyan/Russian/Chinese distance runner gets busted, people say "who?"
US/Jamaican sprinter gets busted, people say "oh yeah, that guy"

If it was Ryan Hall, Mo Farah or Galen Rupp getting busted, on the same day as Olusoji Fasuba, Francis Obikwelu or Zhang Peimeng, it wouldn't be the sprinter in the headlines

rom · 04-11-2014 5:25pm

Why don't organizations like the WMM use polygraph testing for their winners, world record breakers etc? There can always be the situation where an athlete is unaware of whats going on but I don't see why polygraph tests can't be used as an additional aid to focus testing.

RayCun · 04-11-2014 5:28pm

rom wrote: »

Why don't organizations like the WMM use polygraph testing for their winners, world record breakers etc? There can always be the situation where an athlete is unaware of whats going on but I don't see why polygraph tests can't be used as an additional aid to focus testing.

Because polygraphs are not reliable

Jeptoo test positive

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