Water protest discussion and demos

renegademaster

J o e wrote: »

Must be nice to have 6hrs free to hang around drinking coffee on a Wednesday afternoon.

if you read the agenda you'd see it's asking people to come down if they have an hour or 2 to spare

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Funny, but I had no difficulty walking down Shop St while the marchers were walking up.

And by 3pm this is all was left in the Square.

well you obviously didn't even go down shop st when the main march was passing through because those who marched were there and know how much of the street we took up, if it was difficult for the march to progress up shop st that means it was just as difficult for pedestrians to move about. +1 for your timing of the photo though

inisboffin wrote: »

I think it depended on timing. There were actually two separate groups marching.

Here is a pic from Spanish Arch meeting up (via GA page).

spot on!!

Aiel wrote: »

My wife and I marched yesterday. The timing of the above photo was very misleading for crowd size during the event. Can someone put up a photo of the March when it went up Dominick Street and across Bridge Street please, that will give a more accurate assessment of the peak of the crowd numbers. I was at Eamonn Deacy Park the night before watching Galway Utd get promoted, it said there was 2,800 at that event and judging by that crowd i can honestly tell you there was a lot more at the protest march then 3,000.
Anyway, what annoyed me about the March was going up to Topaz at Cemetary Cross to protest up there,i didn't realise the March was going up that far. Why did it go there??I asked 2 or 3 people around me and they didn't know. I had thought it was a Shell to Sea protest or something and I was annoyed because I was marching against additional charges for Water, not at Topaz.
It was good to see kids at the protest aswell. When I was young there was no protests even though there probably should have been. Its good to see parents bringing their kids to it and so when they are older protesting at something wont be so alien an idea to them.

good to have you and your wife on board,

the topaz twist is definately aimed at it's owner ; ie denis o brien

Creative Juices

I was at the march yesterday and I thought the crowds were very impressive. I didn't expect half that crowd. From all walks of society too. The thing that pissed me off was the strong Sinn Fein element. I am so glad I marched though, I have been letting myself down by complaining from my couch for years but this time I got off my arse and did something about it.

Creative Juices

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Funny, but I had no difficulty walking down Shop St while the marchers were walking up.

And by 3pm this is all was left in the Square.

Out of curiousity, why did you walk down Shop Street and then back up Shop Street to Eyre Sq and take pictures afterwards?

Mrs OBumble

Creative Juices wrote: »

Out of curiousity, why did you walk down Shop Street and then back up Shop Street to Eyre Sq and take pictures afterwards?

Odd thing to ask: I'd been out doing some voluntary work in the morning, was going back to my home to drop off the gear from that and to pick up my gym gear and headed out to the gym.

(I live near the Docks area.)

I took a pic 'cos I have a small project to take interesting snaps of Galway when I see them, and an conscious of taking some every weekend.

Tugboats

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Odd thing to ask: I'd been out doing some voluntary work in the morning, was going back to my home to drop off the gear from that and to pick up my gym gear and headed out to the gym.

(I live near the Docks area.)

I took a pic 'cos I have a small project to take interesting snaps of Galway when I see them, and an conscious of taking some every weekend.

Mrs OBumble does voluntary work

Iwannahurl

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I agree with every sentence, except that one.

Whenever anyone tells me how bad privatised water is, I ask them whether we should also nationalise the food industry. Food is, after, equally necessary for human survival. And it's inappropriate use is leading to world-wide deaths by the million, as so many people have either too little or too much.

These conversations never last for long

Interesting analogy.

I'm not arguing against privatisation because water is necessary for human survival. I'm against it because I believe public services should not be taken over by corporations for private gain.

Maggie Thatcher's ideological assault on rail transport in the UK is an example of the damage that can be done. Corporations are not motivated by the public good but by the pursuit of profit, often regardless of social or environmental consequences.

Another prominent protester in Galway said that "water belongs to everybody and nobody". That was intended as an argument against metering, but in fact it's an example of the tragedy of the (unregulated) commons: http://tragedy.sdsu.edu/

There might be a role for limited privatisation but ultimately the water supply has to be strictly regulated, and that means state, aka democratic, control.

Mrs OBumble

Iwannahurl wrote: »

water supply has to be strictly regulated, and that means state, aka democratic, control.

Ahh, all business operations in Ireland are subject to state control. There are all sorts of regulations on them. (Have you tried selling food here lately?)

And I notice how well state-operated water systems have worked. Not.

joeKel73

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I'm not arguing against privatisation because water is necessary for human survival. I'm against it because I believe public services should not be taken over by corporations for private gain.

Irrelevant anyway, Irish Water is a public utility.

I'd agree with having a referrendum to make it a requirement to have a referendum in order to privatise Irish water, it would silence some of the scaremongers.

Iwannahurl

Proper regulation -- of public bodies as well as private corporations -- is essential.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/patrick-neary-tees-off-as-banking-probe-finalised-30246199.html

It's how a proper republic is supposed to function.

WallyGUFC

Protesting at Topaz. LoL. Professional protesting still alive and well in Galway it seems.

Zzippy

WallyGUFC wrote: »

Protesting at Topaz. LoL. Professional protesting still alive and well in Galway it seems.

Whether you believe the protesters were right or wrong in their motivation, it's great to see people passionate enough about something to get off their ass and protest about it. If our society didn't have people who cared enough to march on these issues we'd be a poorer society indeed. I wasn't there on Saturday but from the news reports it seems a broad section of society was there, including families, working people, unemployed people, etc. Belittling protest by insinuating they are "professional protestors" says a lot more about you than it does about them.

joeKel73

Zzippy wrote: »

If our society didn't have people who cared enough to march on these issues we'd be a poorer society indeed.

I cared enough about the issue to not march in opposition to it...

renegademaster

WallyGUFC wrote: »

Protesting at Topaz. LoL. Professional protesting still alive and well in Galway it seems.

Zzippy wrote: »

Whether you believe the protesters were right or wrong in their motivation, it's great to see people passionate enough about something to get off their ass and protest about it. If our society didn't have people who cared enough to march on these issues we'd be a poorer society indeed. I wasn't there on Saturday but from the news reports it seems a broad section of society was there, including families, working people, unemployed people, etc. Belittling protest by insinuating they are "professional protestors" says a lot more about you than it does about them.

the date has been changed to nov 15th to tie in with a new nationwide protest at topaz stations

WallyGUFC

Zzippy wrote: »

Whether you believe the protesters were right or wrong in their motivation, it's great to see people passionate enough about something to get off their ass and protest about it. If our society didn't have people who cared enough to march on these issues we'd be a poorer society indeed. I wasn't there on Saturday but from the news reports it seems a broad section of society was there, including families, working people, unemployed people, etc. Belittling protest by insinuating they are "professional protestors" says a lot more about you than it does about them.

I agree that people should be allowed protest, fair play to them. I'd wonder why they're protesting now, when so many meters are installed, as opposed to when the water charges were initially announced. And I'd also wonder what alternatives they propose to Irish Water, to plug the gap in the budget deficit.

I think protesting outside a legitimate business (Topaz) because of a perceived link between this business and Irish Water is a farce and says quite a lot about some of the protestors.

Maybe my initial comment was a bit strong but it's well known that there's a cohort of people in Galway who will protest about anything and everything. For a different conversation, perhaps.

renegademaster

WallyGUFC wrote: »

Maybe my initial comment was a bit strong but it's well known that there's a cohort of people in Galway who will protest about anything and everything. For a different conversation, perhaps.

what's the never ending narrative of "singular issue protesting only" all about?

i'm fed up with a whole lot of different issues and will protest each and everyone of them when I have the time, it's not easy but i try to attend as many protests as is possible, it's usually for something damn important and could do with a whole lot more support from people tbqh, at the end of the day each and everytime i went on a protest i had a great time meeting new people and standing up for what is right, peaceful protest is fun, i'd highly recommend it :pac:

Crumbs868

Shell site in rosspot is about to open so the protestors have moved on. Topaz is their new target....

connemara man

renegademaster wrote: »

what's the never ending narrative of "singular issue protesting only" all about?

i'm fed up with a whole lot of different issues and will protest each and everyone of them when I have the time, it's not easy but i try to attend as many protests as is possible, it's usually for something damn important and could do with a whole lot more support from people tbqh, at the end of the day each and everytime i went on a protest i had a great time meeting new people and standing up for what is right, peaceful protest is fun, i'd highly recommend it :pac:

and you are completely correct to protest everything you feel is unjust, but the segway to Topaz in some peoples eyes, me as someone who didn't protest and possibly people who did, water down (sorry) the validity of the initial water charge protest.

I'm actually Pro water rates of some kind. money that is solely colloected for the upkeep and from here on out fixing of pipes makes sense. especially in a country where
1 A huge infrastructure will need to be invested because Leinster and mainly Dublin will start to if not already need water from outside Leinster to be pumped in because of the ballooning population growth.
2 people in rural areas have been paying for water in group schemes for years so the "double tax argument for me is a no go"

The issue is/should be Irish Water and the complete balls of a job that has occurred in setting it up.

Mrs OBumble

connemara man wrote: »

The issue is/should be Irish Water and the complete balls of a job that has occurred in setting it up.

Agreed. But that is not what the protest is about. It is about "we won't pay".

renegademaster

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Agreed. But that is not what the protest is about. It is about "we won't pay twice".

fyp there

connemara man

renegademaster wrote: »

fyp there

by that ethos should people stop paying for water that are in public schemes? or stop paying a tax?

Bobeagleburger

renegademaster wrote: »

fyp there

Water is being paid for by hundreds of thousands already.

Everyone should cough up a bit, and not just the taxpayers as usual. There are some people want to pay for nothing and expect everything

renegademaster

rarnes1 wrote: »

Water is being paid for by hundreds of thousands already.

Everyone should cough up a bit, and not just the taxpayers as usual. There are some people want to pay for nothing and expect everything

connemara man wrote: »

by that ethos should people stop paying for water that are in public schemes? or stop paying a tax?

taxpayers already pay €1.2bn or more in taxation each year for water

Mrs OBumble

connemara man wrote: »

by that ethos should people stop paying for water that are in public schemes? or stop paying a tax?

It's not about paying once or twice.

It's about paying based on consumption, rather than based on taxable income (PAYE and Income Tax) and expenditure (VAT).

Charging for water purely through taxes causes people to not value it: they leave taps running in winter instead of lagging pipes, have water-fights, run the tap while brushing their teeth, don't bother to report leaks in the street etc.

Water, like food, electricity, transport should be charged based on usage. Welfare systems provide people with income that they can use to choose which goods / services are essential to their lives. We should not be enforcing some of these choices on people when there is no strong public health argument for doing do.

connemara man

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It's not about paying once or twice.

It's about paying based on consumption, rather than based on taxable income (PAYE and Income Tax) and expenditure (VAT).

Charging for water purely through taxes causes people to not value it: they leave taps running in winter instead of lagging pipes, have water-fights, run the tap while brushing their teeth, don't bother to report leaks in the street etc.

Water, like food, electricity, transport should be charged based on usage. Welfare systems provide people with income that they can use to choose which goods / services are essential to their lives. We should not be enforcing some of these choices on people when there is no strong public health argument for doing do.

I agree with you

inisboffin

If it's purely based on consumption, then why do they have the model of a single person in an apartment block paying the same as a family of four?

IMO A lot less people would protest being 'charged' (whether once or twice!) if the proposed model wasn't flawed, and had more ownership over the payment model, as opposed to it being potentially open ended.
Why are they requiring PPS numbers? Surely only those applying for a means tested discount should have to do that (if even). I don't buy that reasoning for asking for PPS numbers. A friend with a well and septic tank was harassed for a pps number to "prove she wasn't a customer". The company is not garnering an ounce of respect.

I absolutely agree that we need to respect water usage, and some abuse that. But it's frustrating for those of us who don't to see this as the only proposed alternative, and many just won't accept it.

Irishgoatman

Although I’ve been following this thread with interest I’ve no intention of making my own views public because they are just that, my views.

However, I’ve been waiting for someone to raise the issue of people on private water schemes and now it’s happened.

If the government were to scrap all plans to charge for water where would these people stand?. They pay for and maintain their own water supply because there is no public supply available to them, they also have septic tanks because there is no sewerage system available to them.

If these people were to stop paying the scheme would quickly collapse and they would have no water regardless of how much tax etc, they pay.

In addition to this there are people who have paid for, and pay to maintain, their own well for the same reasons.

I’ll be interested to see if anyone has an answer to this, and please don’t tell these people to move to where there is a public supply!.

Irishgoatman

Sorry about the large font on the above. Internet was down so prepared it on Word without checking font size first.

Webbs

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Although I’ve been following this thread with interest I’ve no intention of making my own views public because they are just that, my views.

However, I’ve been waiting for someone to raise the issue of people on private water schemes and now it’s happened.

If the government were to scrap all plans to charge for water where would these people stand?. They pay for and maintain their own water supply because there is no public supply available to them, they also have septic tanks because there is no sewerage system available to them.

If these people were to stop paying the scheme would quickly collapse and they would have no water regardless of how much tax etc, they pay.

In addition to this there are people who have paid for, and pay to maintain, their own well for the same reasons.

I’ll be interested to see if anyone has an answer to this, and please don’t tell these people to move to where there is a public supply!.

If the water tax is not implemented then surely we would continue with the status quo. Currently the Water that is provided to those on the mains is paid for through taxes collected be it PAYE, VAT etc.

antoobrien

renegademaster wrote: »

taxpayers already pay €1.2bn or more in taxation each year for water

Yeah and about half that comes from motor tax.

antoobrien

Irishgoatman wrote: »

However, I’ve been waiting for someone to raise the issue of people on private water schemes and now it’s happened.

If the government were to scrap all plans to charge for water where would these people stand?. They pay for and maintain their own water supply because there is no public supply available to them, they also have septic tanks because there is no sewerage system available to them.

Private schemes are not currently part of Iirsh Water's remit in any case, so Status quo ante.