Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Warning in OP, 10/12

Pilsbury Doughboy · 10-12-2014 3:11pm

Only a few months ago BR was being lauded and everybody was clamouring to get him to sign a new deal before Barca, City etc came knocking, now here we are and he's back to being a spoofer and unworthy of being our manager, the praise was too much and the bashing now is too much, try and find some balance people and stop being so fickle.

10-12-2014 3:14pm

Pilsbury Doughboy wrote: »

Only a few months ago BR was being lauded and everybody was clamouring to get him to sign a new deal before Barca, City etc came knocking, now here we are and he's back to being a spoofer and unworthy of being our manager, the praise was too much and the bashing now is too much, try and find some balance people and stop being so fickle.

Football fans are the most fickle bunch. Always been the case

Magico Gonzalez · 10-12-2014 3:29pm

It's depressingly simple, Suarez and Sturridge were so important to us last year, cannot be overstated. More or less lost both of them for the majority of the season with one gone and the other not fit or on the sidelines.

We replaced them with players who aren't good enough (lambert) or aren't good enough yet.

All the pace and guile has been removed at the top end of the pitch and the team is buckling back into itself under the pressure. With lambert or whoever else playing centrally up front Sterling finds himself isolated.

Absentees plus poor transfers = Hodgon-esque muck.

Sack Rodgers? No way

Improving the transfer policy is a must. Imperative.

Harry Palmr · 10-12-2014 3:32pm

amiable wrote: »

Is everyone still thinking Coutinho is a great player?

He is a very talented 21 year old in a dysfunctional side. Give him something to work with and you'd see more from him.

amiable · 10-12-2014 3:46pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

He is a very talented 21 year old in a dysfunctional side. Give him something to work with and you'd see more from him.

He's 22 and been performing below par for a while now. All the players playing poor at the moment could be said the same about to an extent. We could say Balotelli is a talented player playing in a dysfunctional side. Sometimes it's up to the individual player to rise above that.
Raheem Sterling had a poor patch but has been a shining light in the last few weeks in a dysfunctional side. He's only turned 20 this week.

Francie Barrett · 10-12-2014 3:48pm

The conclusion I have come to on transfers is that squad players are basically a waste of time. The next time a big name player becomes available, then offer whatever it takes to get them to sign on the dotted line. I would happily plug the gaps with kids or Chelsea loanee rejects like Moses if it meant we could have a Suarez playing for us. Two or three stars in the team will always give you a fighting chance.

redzerdrog · 10-12-2014 3:49pm

Coutinho, Sterling and Henderson have all been poor this season as they are being used differently this year for some strange reason none of them are being played to their strengths which was in a system that all 3 flourished last year

redzerdrog · 10-12-2014 3:51pm

Francie Barrett wrote: »

The conclusion I have come to on transfers is that squad players are basically a waste of time. The next time a big name player becomes available, then offer whatever it takes to get them to sign on the dotted line. I would happily plug the gaps with kids or Chelsea loanee rejects like Moses if it meant we could have a Suarez playing for us. Two or three stars in the team will always give you a fighting chance.

yep even 1 player of quality gives you a fighting chance, Gerrard nearly did it last night but he has been to the well too many times. Utd were deplorable on Monday yet RVP pulled them through

Mr Alan · 10-12-2014 3:52pm

Has whatawaster been around?

Would love to hear his take on things

Francie Barrett · 10-12-2014 3:54pm

MD1990 wrote: »

Rodgers transfers have been poor but he isn't helped by Ayre & co failing to close deals. Last few years we failed to close deals on

- Mkitaryan
- Costa
- Willian
- Remy
- Konoplyanka
- Sanchez

We need to stop overpaying for certain players just because there low on wages & starting offering high wages.

Exactly the point I was trying to make.

This notion of paying a lot of money for squad depth is for mugs. For a team like Liverpool with tighter constraints, all we end up doing is building a squad of mediocrity.

amiable · 10-12-2014 3:54pm

redzerdrog wrote: »

Coutinho, Sterling and Henderson have all been poor this season as they are being used differently this year for some strange reason none of them are being played to their strengths which was in a system that all 3 flourished last year

Coutinho was nowhere near the level of Henderson, Sterling or Sturridge last season. He had the odd good game IMO in a functional side.

redzerdrog · 10-12-2014 3:57pm

Should have broke the bank for Sanchez yes he wanted london but an extra 50 grand in his pay packet every week and Liverpool becomes more appealing

redzerdrog · 10-12-2014 3:59pm

amiable wrote: »

Coutinho was nowhere near the level of Henderson, Sterling or Sturridge last season. He had the odd good game IMO in a functional side.

the 3 mentioned were excellent but Coutinho has very good especially 2nd half of year when played in diamond alongside henderson

Francie Barrett · 10-12-2014 4:01pm

redzerdrog wrote: »

Should have broke the bank for Sanchez yes he wanted london but an extra 50 grand in his pay packet every week and Liverpool becomes more appealing

Yep. We have missed out on far too many targets, it seems clear enough to me that we were just too stingy with wages.

amiable · 10-12-2014 4:01pm

redzerdrog wrote: »

Should have broke the bank for Sanchez yes he wanted london but an extra 50 grand in his pay packet every week and Liverpool becomes more appealing

Wanting London sounds like a cliche spun out too to me. Waving the extra cash at him would have tested that resolve. Didn't Wenger fly out to Brazil too during the World Cup to talk to him? I presume our lot just sat at home thinking WE are Liverpool football club and he should want to play for us.
You go get the players you want and need by what ever means within your disposal. I'm not sure Liverpool did

6am7f9zxrsjvnb · 10-12-2014 4:01pm

How many Liverpool players would be considered to be among the TOP 50 players in the world? Precisely none. Chelsea and City have at least 3 each. Christ, United have 4 or 5.
Apart from Sturridge and Sterling,the squad is mid table standard.Is Rodgers entirely to blame for this fact?

Magico Gonzalez · 10-12-2014 4:01pm

Francie Barrett wrote: »

The conclusion I have come to on transfers is that squad players are basically a waste of time. The next time a big name player becomes available, then offer whatever it takes to get them to sign on the dotted line. I would happily plug the gaps with kids or Chelsea loanee rejects like Moses if it meant we could have a Suarez playing for us. Two or three stars in the team will always give you a fighting chance.

Starting to believe it myself, a few "star" players for want of a better word elevate a team up and beyond the performance of a team with less gaps but not necessarily as much quality.

I think it's probably holding Arsenal back as well, they lack a Suarez basically. United have a few, Chelsea and City also. United have massive gaps in their side and have lost important players in midfield but they are finding goals and winning games they aren't dominating thanks to one off moments of brilliance.

Money-balls doesn't translate to football as the statistical model tends to ignore those "outlier" events or "black swans" which are represented by one off moments of magic in a match which turn games. One incredible pass to put a player through for a goal cancels out 10 pretty good forward passes, one 30 yd screamer and a rubbish performance cancels out 20 decent efforts on target.

Only Gerrard (see that free kick last night) is capable of delivering something special that turns a game, Sterling and Coutinho need the team to function. Sturridge maybe but I'd argue he needs to have chances delivered to him rather than produce out of nothing.

amiable · 10-12-2014 4:02pm

redzerdrog wrote: »

the 3 mentioned were excellent but Coutinho has very good especially 2nd half of year when played in diamond alongside henderson

He was decent at times. I wouldn't go as far as saying he was very good overall.

Magico Gonzalez · 10-12-2014 4:04pm

Jairo Strong Raceway wrote: »

How many Liverpool players would be considered to be among the TOP 50 players in the world? Precisely none. Chelsea and City have at least 3 each. Christ, United have 4 or 5.
Apart from Sturridge and Sterling,the squad is mid table standard.Is Rodgers entirely to blame for this fact?

I'll bite...4 or 5 from United? This season mind, so don't come with Van persie because if he is in there, so is Gerrard. After that? Mata? Nope. Not this season, not for a few seasons. Falcao? Can't get into the team after his injury. Rooney, OK. Danny Blind? I don't think so.

Chelsea and City certainly. United. Maybe next year if players come back from injuries, not this year. You have to apply the same criteria to both. Sterling and Gerrard last year make that list, this year no chance.

Pilsbury Doughboy · 10-12-2014 4:04pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

Has whatawaster been around?

Would love to hear his take on things

Roles reversal, if we won lots of games on the spin and someone posted has Alan been around lately, there'd be fellas lining up to defend your honour, I'm not sure why when you're just as bad yourself.

Harry Palmr · 10-12-2014 4:06pm

whatawaster hasn't posted on this thread. Someone should revoke his posting rights.

6am7f9zxrsjvnb · 10-12-2014 4:11pm

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

I'll bite...4 or 5 from United? This season mind, so don't come with Van persie because if he is in there, so is Gerrard. After that? Mata? Nope. Not this season, not for a few seasons. Falcao? Can't get into the team after his injury. Rooney, OK. Danny Blind? I don't think so.

Chelsea and City certainly. United. Maybe next year if players come back from injuries, not this year. You have to apply the same criteria to both. Sterling and Gerrard last year make that list, this year no chance.

De Gea? Di Maria?

Francie Barrett · 10-12-2014 4:12pm

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

I'll bite...4 or 5 from United? This season mind, so don't come with Van persie because if he is in there, so is Gerrard. After that? Mata? Nope. Not this season, not for a few seasons. Falcao? Can't get into the team after his injury. Rooney, OK. Danny Blind? I don't think so.

Rooney - yes.
Di Maria - yes.
Falcao - just about, he will be playing soon.
De Gea - perhaps, would be very close.

There's a clutch of other players who wouldn't be far outside there (RVP if he isn't already in there, Mata still young, has decent recent form). I am pretty envious of what they have at their disposal.

Connavar · 10-12-2014 4:14pm

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Rooney - yes.
Di Maria - yes.
Falcao - just about, he will be playing soon.
De Gea - perhaps, would be very close.

There's a clutch of other players who wouldn't be far outside there (RVP if he isn't already in there, Mata still young, has decent recent form). I am pretty envious of what they have at their disposal.

Agreed, Carrick being the closest to those listed imo

rossc007 · 10-12-2014 4:15pm

rarnes1 wrote: »

Ballotelli and Lovren been the let downs so far.

I think these guys in particular have been victims of the system, not one of our center halves looks good when Gerrard is directly in front of them. Agger, Sahko, Skrtle, Kolo, Lovren all good players who get exposed by the system and end up taking the blame. We saw how good Kolo looked with Lucas in front of him and from that list (before the season started) he would probably be considered the weakest player. Granted Lovern looked pretty **** last night but his confidence must be in the gutter, like a lot of players in the squad.

We shipped a **** load of goals last season that where covered up by Suarez and Sturridge, from what I can see it took the manager a season and a half to figure out the reason. I think he should be given more time, but he has opened himself up to a lot of questions recently. It may look like genius when it pays off but it looks awful stupid when it doesn't.

Ballotelli cannot play up front on his own and even when he plays with a partner he can still piss people off, but thats the player we bought, there shouldnt be any surprises.

Mr Alan · 10-12-2014 4:17pm

Pilsbury Doughboy wrote: »

Roles reversal, if we won lots of games on the spin and someone posted has Alan been around lately, there'd be fellas lining up to defend your honour, I'm not sure why when you're just as bad yourself.

If we'd won lots of games & someone asked had I been around, the answer would be "yes", just like I was around lots last season. I don't ever not post because of the form of the team or it proving me wrong.

Francie Barrett · 10-12-2014 4:23pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

whatawaster hasn't posted on this thread. Someone should revoke his posting rights.

The whole "where is xyz to defend his position on Rodgers" shtick became tiresome after the first or second time Mr Alan was asked last season. Whatever your position on Rodgers is, it needs to end at this point.

LuckyLloyd · 10-12-2014 4:24pm

Francie Barrett wrote: »

The conclusion I have come to on transfers is that squad players are basically a waste of time. The next time a big name player becomes available, then offer whatever it takes to get them to sign on the dotted line. I would happily plug the gaps with kids or Chelsea loanee rejects like Moses if it meant we could have a Suarez playing for us. Two or three stars in the team will always give you a fighting chance.

Welcome!

Mr Alan · 10-12-2014 4:25pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

If we'd won lots of games & someone asked had I been around, the answer would be "yes", just like I was around lots last season. I don't ever not post because of the form of the team or it proving me wrong.

Just to clarify I'm not asking where whatawaster is because I think he has disappeared because Rodgers has been shown to be out of his depth. I'm genuinely just curious what his take would be now. He & many others always maintained as long as a plan & progress was clear, Rodgers would have their support. On that basis, we'd have to assume he no longer has that backing

LuckyLloyd · 10-12-2014 4:27pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

Has whatawaster been around?

Would love to hear his take on things

He hasn't been around and I'm sure there are reasons for that.

As always when the regs aren't about I hope it's because they've found better things to be doing with their time and not because something bad is going on in personal life, etc. A positive reason not a negative reason.

Didn't agree with whatawaster a whole lot, but he was a great poster who loved the club. Hopefully he'll be back in time.

Mr Alan · 10-12-2014 4:29pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

He hasn't been around and I'm sure there are reasons for that.

As always when the regs aren't about I hope it's because they've found better things to be doing with their time and not because something bad is going on in personal life, etc. A positive reason not a negative reason.

Didn't agree with whatawaster a whole lot, but he was a great poster who loved the club. Hopefully he'll be back in time.

Agreed.

10-12-2014 4:33pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

What's your take on everything?
No crisis? Doing as well as can be expected?

In addition to what I mentioned earlier (below FYI) my take is that last year we overperformed and this year the opposite is the case.

Finishing ahead of Chelsea and so close to Man City was a huge overperfromance over the course of a season, we are experiencing the less pleasant side of the coin this year.

People must also be mindful that 4 or 5 £15/20m players were not bought with the view of a title challenge, top 4 was the aim. We will quite likely fall short of that, that's underperforming.

Expecting overperformance or even playing to your level every season isn't feasible.

Calls for Rodgers to get his walking papers are premature imo.

The reactionary folk will find it hard to answer the following question - If last season was solely due to Suarez why didn't Liverpool finish with an many points in the 2012/2013 season?

Augeo wrote: »

I believe the team is underperforming, I believe Sturridge is a massive loss, I believe Mario hasn't contibuted the goals that it was thought he would.

I believe Gerrard is better as an AM than a DM but I believe he should be coming on for Lallana at the 60 minute mark and not starting. I believe Rodgers knows this but as the team is underperforming he's not going to implement that for all games.

I believe that the 2nd half points haul will be better than the first half of the season.

I also believe that Rodgers at the helm is much better option than getting Benitez back.

...............

Iused2likebusts · 10-12-2014 4:35pm

Connavar wrote: »

Agreed, Carrick being the closest to those listed imo

Carrick top 50 players in the world come on. He can barely get in the England squad. Top 50 in the world is a serious standard probably only 15 premier league players at most at that standard with Chelsea and city having the majority of them.

LuckyLloyd · 10-12-2014 4:36pm

Augeo wrote: »

The reactionary folk will find it hard to answer the following question - If last season was solely due to Suarez why didn't Liverpool finish with an many points in the 2012/2013 season?

Ehhh...Suarez went from being a very good player to one of the top three players in the world?

Add in a few bounces here and there and a cumulative effect of winning breeding confidence and you have the magic recipe for a title challenge. The beef of the stew was Suarez though.

Mr Alan · 10-12-2014 4:39pm

Augeo wrote: »

Expecting overperformance or even playing to your level every season isn't feasible.

Expecting playing to your level isn't feasible?! Wtf?! It's the bare minimum acceptable standard

Mr Alan · 10-12-2014 4:43pm

Augeo wrote: »

The reactionary folk will find it hard to answer the following question - If last season was solely due to Suarez why didn't Liverpool finish with an many points in the 2012/2013 season?

Suarez fulfilled his potential. And as a result made those around him better.

10-12-2014 4:48pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Ehhh...Suarez went from being a very good player to one of the top three players in the world? Add in a few bounces here and there and a cumulative effect of winning breeding confidence and you have the magic recipe for a title challenge. The beef of the stew was Suarez though.

Mr Alan wrote: »

Suarez fulfilled his potential. And as a result made those around him better.

Suarez benefitted from a team set up for him, he wouldn't have been as good with Andy C alongside him and Downing crossing the balls in chaps

Mr Alan wrote: »

Expecting playing to your level isn't feasible?! Wtf?! It's the bare minimum acceptable standard

Expecting players to play to their level every season I think I said

It doesn't happen, every year some teams overperfrom and some underperform. It happens in most sports. It's quite common.

Mr Alan · 10-12-2014 4:56pm

Augeo wrote: »

Suarez benefitted from a team set up for him, he wouldn't have been as good with Andy C alongside him and Downing crossing the balls in chaps

Expecting players to play to their level every season I think I said
It doesn't happen, every year some teams overperfrom and some underperform. It happens in most sports. It's quite common.

What age are you just out of curiosity?

Gbear · 10-12-2014 4:57pm

The team Rodgers has put together has plenty of good players in it. You only have to look at Newcastle to see how massively a squad's performances can swing and how, even 10-15 games into a season, where you are in the table means **** all.

Still, players like Coutinho need someone to pass to. Sterling needs someone who can stretch the play to actually give him space to operate in (and to reciprocate). Lallana is much the same. We're broken without a striker.

You can take a crappy team and with training and getting players to "do a job" you can make it work. We won the bloody CL with a team like that. You need people to fulfill a role though. The system has to work and has to suit the players.

Maybe Sturridge comes back and stays fit for the rest of the season. We'd be strong contenders for 4th and all the competitions we're still in.
But we just can't afford to take that chance and we can't afford to stick with what we have just to spite Rodgers. We need another forward.
They don't even have to be Higuain or someone like that. They just have to be fairly good - have a bit of pace and be competent on the ball and in front of goal. It's a tactical necessity and not just about a lack in quality.

We didn't just lose the quality of two great forwards - we don't have anyone even doing remotely the same job. It'd be like losing a CB and sticking a winger in there instead and wondering why your defence is now ****.

People have ****ed up this season and you could argue deserve to lose their jobs but the squad hasn't magically turned into part-timers. We're still in a strong position and if Rodgers can't make hay with what we have there's plenty of managers that would jump at the chance to manage a squad as good as ours.

10-12-2014 4:58pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

What age are you just out of curiosity?

You'll have to remain curious on that one. Nothing at all to do with the thread.

Mr Alan · 10-12-2014 4:59pm

Augeo wrote: »

You'll have to remain curious on that one. Nothing at all to do with the thread.

Actually, it is relevant. See I suspect you're in your teens. Which would explain the silliness of your opinions.

10-12-2014 5:02pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

Actually, it is relevant. See I suspect you're in your teens. Which would explain the silliness of your opinions.

You see alan old boy, we all don't have to share in your p1ssing & moaning negative outlook.

So if you want you can discuss my opinion but just stating they're silly says more about you than it does about my opinion

Were you silly when you were a teenager alan, at what age did you grow out of it?
How old should posters be to contribute to this thread?

Not busy at work these days I take it.

Pilsbury Doughboy · 10-12-2014 5:06pm

Augeo wrote: »

You see alan old boy, we all don't have to share in your p1ssing & moaning negative outlook.

So if you want you can discuss my opinion but just stating they're silly says more about you than it does about my opinion

Were you silly when you were a teenager alan, at what age did you grow out of it?
How old should posters be to contribute to this thread?

Not busy at work these days I take it.

You need to utilise the confused smileys alot more, also try putting a few question marks in a row like so ?????????? Finally you gotta work the word delusional in far more often than you are now, up your game son.

Mr Alan · 10-12-2014 5:12pm

Augeo wrote: »

You see alan old boy, we all don't have to share in your p1ssing & moaning negative outlook.

So if you want you can discuss my opinion but just stating they're silly says more about you than it does about my opinion

Were you silly when you were a teenager alan, at what age did you grow out of it?
How old should posters be to contribute to this thread?

Not busy at work these days I take it.

Off sick today.

Yea I was silly when I was a teenager.

I'm not moaning & negative, I'm realistic.

We have very serious problems - saying or thinking anything else is deluded.

We either need to buy in genuine world class players in Jan/Summer or else look for a new manager who is better able to manage with the resources at our disposal.

Lord Trollington · 10-12-2014 5:14pm

Is Balotelli back fit and available for Sunday?

5starpool · 10-12-2014 5:17pm

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Is Balotelli back fit and available for Sunday?

No idea. Our new main striker Martin Skrtel should be fit and raring to go.

Lord Trollington · 10-12-2014 5:19pm

5starpool wrote: »

No idea. Our new main striker Martin Skrtel should be fit and raring to go.

His Injury seems to be a bit of a mystery. Very little being said or reported about it. Wonder is it something he carried into the start if the season.

amiable · 10-12-2014 5:19pm

I haven't seen the under age teams play in a while. Does Jerome Sinclair look anywhere near ready for a place on the bench? I saw a rumour from one of the Echo journalists that him or Ojo were being considered for last night.

Lord Trollington · 10-12-2014 5:23pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

Off sick today.

Yea I was silly when I was a teenager.

I'm not moaning & negative, I'm realistic.

We have very serious problems - saying or thinking anything else is deluded.

We either need to buy in genuine world class players in Jan/Summer or else look for a new manager who is better able to manage with the resources at our disposal.

We need a World Class Stiker and a World class DM and I genuinely believe a lot of our problems would be solved. We have already stopped leaking goals.

With Sturridge back and another top stiker along with him along with a top class mobile DM i believe that would solve a lot of our problems.

brevity · 10-12-2014 5:24pm

Is Opr allowed to post anymore? I know he was banned for a while, is he up for parole?

Always enjoyed his posts...

brevity

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Warning in OP, 10/12

Comments