Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Warning in OP, 10/12

Demosthenese

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

The essence of the transfer system that FSG have implemented, Moneyball, is that you don't spend big on established stars. You buy prospects with sell on value.

Hence why we've seen them buy Markovic, Moreno, Lovren et Al instead of breaking the bank for three world class players instead.

Doesn't take 3 worldclass players to run around the field and break your bollocks for the cause. United scored 3 goals and won today and they have none with Di Maria out.

Liverpool have NEVER signed a world class player since the beginning of the premier league. World class players are not within our grasp right now so people need to move on and get on with it. Not all players are world class from the word go ... Suarez/Torres ... developed. We need to produce more.

Chucky the tree

Augeo wrote: »

Unless you are FSG that comment is worthless.



There is a huge element of truth to this, Man City were spending big money for years before winning the title though so I can see the appeal of moneyball, to be fair FSG run a business it's not a hobby financed by other ventures. There's no doubt a happy medium but it's not easy to achieve.





Indeed, can't see Gerrard having any problem with Rodgers, as team captain he's not performing. Rodgers has commenced the necessary dropping/resting of Gerrard which at the start of the season many reckoned was his biggest challenge. Gerrard is needed on the pitch though so it's a quandary. Not easy to resolve either.

Any fans expecting a team of Liverpool's current income levels etc to be in the top 4 every year is in dreamland. For that to happen everything needs to fall just right.

Football, has a habit of not falling just right.

He is?

Charlie19

T-K-O wrote: »

I not so sure any more.

Drops the GK a month too late.
Drops Lucas when he clearly improved the team
Lovern
Brings Marko on and plays him as wing back
Borini can't make the bench. His level of performance at Sunderland would make him our best or 2nd best player.
Lallana, when he does play he gets hooked at half time.

Then the comments in the press. ' He's dropped indefinitely' a lame ass billy big bollocks comment. When he avoids the real decisions

He still has my backing bar obviously a relegation battle but no I still think they can turn it around.

I have not seen the comments about the goalkeeper, I saw two interviews and I totally agreed with Rodgers comments about the game, I think we actually played ok and on another day we could of probably won the game.

I didn't agree with his line up or substitutions, I would have had Lucas and Kolo over Allen and Loveren,but I'm sure Rodgers has his reasons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVsXzYGY9PQ

pmy.murphy

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

Henderson is not hard to figure out. When the team is in form he's grand, but when the results drop so does his head and performance.

He's not a leader, and it's a bit of a joke that he's deputy captain. He only is because there's no-one else.

Agger was vice captain too but yet he was shipped out

redzerdrog

Joe Allen was pathetic today how he wasnt replaced at half time i dont know

T-K-O

Charlie19 wrote: »

He still has my backing bar obviously a relegation battle but no I still think they can turn it around.

I have not seen the comments about the goalkeeper, I saw two interviews and I totally agreed with Rodgers comments about the game, I think we actually played ok and on another day we could of probably won the game.

I didn't agree with his line up or substitutions, I would have had Lucas and Kolo over Allen and Loveren,but I'm sure Rodgers has his reasons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVsXzYGY9PQ

At the end of the day, it was 3-0 and we made the same mistakes as every other game.

Lucas/Kolo = No brainer - so why doesn't it happen.

I hope you're right about him but he is not showing any signs of a manager who can adapt.

smileyj1987

Mr Alan wrote: »

A huge gross spend & a big net spend.

Rodgers is receiving the financial backing previous Liverpool managers could only have dreamt of.

If the results of this investment are second rate players, that's a reflection on the manager ability in the transfer market, not the backing he's getting from FSG which is very substantial.

If I were FSG I wouldn't give Rodgers another penny so bad is the way we've spent their money to date.

The team needed really big investment put into it . You can't sell a player like Suarez and buy a load of squad players and hope things go well for you . That doesn't work at all .
The owners needed to drop alot more money into the club to cement a champions league place and they failed to do that . Momentum was on the side of the manager .

Utopia Parkway

redzerdrog wrote: »

Joe Allen was pathetic today how he wasnt replaced at half time i dont know

Just seems to be a bit of a nothing player. He isn't terrible but never seems to affect the game positively for his team. Just potters about passing the ball sideways well away from any danger areas. Game ends and you can barely remember if he played or not.

Ganymede Glow

Seen a cracker of a comment on the liverpool way boards

Expectations haven't just been lowered, they've been sent to live in Josef Fritzel's basement

jaykay74

smileyj1987 wrote: »

The team needed really big investment put into it . You can't sell a player like Suarez and buy a load of squad players and hope things go well for you . That doesn't work at all .
The owners needed to drop alot more money into the club to cement a champions league place and they failed to do that . Momentum was on the side of the manager .

I thought there was a decent spend last Summer no ? Could be argued that it was wasted but thats neither here nor there. The money was stumped up.

Mr Alan

jaykay74 wrote: »

I thought there was a decent spend last Summer no ? Could be argued that it was wasted but thats neither here nor there. The money was stumped up.

Exactly.

The owners stumped up the cash.

Rodgers has blown it.

No one was expecting every player to be an instant success, but for not 1 of them to offer anything at this point is really really appalling

marklazarcovic

the only difference between the two teams was they finished the chances and their keeper saved ours ..it was not some hammering, something goin on at lfc behind the scenes that none of us know about. i mean,we knew what the team was a day before the game,and it had major changes !!

thats very very odd for 1 . we have no idea why decisions are made

ush

Change of goalkeeper and a six midfielder set-up. I was kind of expecting that.

zAbbo

marklazarcovic wrote: »

the only difference between the two teams was they finished the chances and their keeper saved ours ..it was not some hammering, something goin on at lfc behind the scenes that none of us know about. i mean,we knew what the team was a day before the game,and it had major changes !!

thats very very odd for 1 . we have no idea why decisions are made

Pretty much every lineup has been out before games, some bib watching at training.

klose

No way fsg can be blamed over the transfers, they've stumped up plenty cash for rodgers, he'll never get as much to spend ever again as he and the transfer committee have made a hillarious balls of it. Shame our scouting network didnt really branch much further than st marys stadium in the south of england however.
For 20 million you expect proven quality that instantly improves the team in terms of a centre back, lovren looks as bad a centre back weve ever had, i mean who signed off that transfer knowing he played the same side as sakho whom just had a brilliant world cup? Madness. I like lalanna and think hes getting a raw deal but we could have used his transfer fee much better. Im actually fine with can/manquillo/moreno/lambert and even balo. But those two were just a result of lazy scouting by the looks.

LuckyLloyd

redzerdrog wrote: »

Joe Allen was pathetic today how he wasnt replaced at half time i dont know

Joe Allen is my most hated kind of player. Henderson is game and is physically able. Gerrard has quality in his right peg and the ability to create magic. Lucas is smart and positionally sound. In his few appearances Can has looked like an athlete with the ability to make plays.

Allen is, what...technically okay? He's weak. He's a poor decision maker. He offers little threat going forward and doesn't help the defense much. He's just so forgettable and lacking in impact. Really annoys me.

Francie Barrett

I was behind Rodgers from day one and stuck by him after the first disappointing season. Even if the performances weren't always up to scratch, I could at least see what he was trying to do - replacing the overpaid, under-performing players that were there, trying to bring in younger, hungrier players who could play ball. My doubts started before we even kicked a ball this season. I looked at all the business we did and could not identify one player who I had confidence in. I think the chickens of our failed transfer policy have come home to roost. The real question is just who is making these decisions, is it Rodgers alone, is it the committee?

Chucky the tree

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Joe Allen is my most hated kind of player. Henderson is game and is physically able. Gerrard has quality in his right peg and the ability to create magic. Lucas is smart and positionally sound. In his few appearances Can has looked like an athlete with the ability to make plays.

Allen is, what...technically okay? He's weak. He's a poor decision maker. He offers little threat going forward and doesn't help the defense much. He's just so forgettable and lacking in impact. Really annoys me.

He tries though. Displays a big heart. Thought you'd like that kind of thing?

Harry Palmr

Allen was busy covering for Gerrard and Moreno today.

klose

klose wrote: »

--- lovren looks as bad a centre back weve ever had, i mean who signed off that transfer knowing he played the same side as sakho whom just had a brilliant world cup? Madness. I like lalanna and think hes getting a raw deal but we could have used his transfer fee much better. Im actually fine with can/manquillo/moreno/lambert and even balo. But those two were just a result of lazy scouting by the looks.

Lovren does look completely and utterly woeful 95% of the time he has played of Liverpool. I can't see him coming good, Sakho I feel will be very good over the coming years, maybe even the second half of this season.

Taking a longterm view I reckon Lallana will be fine as I expect some goals from him as well as productive link up play with other attacking players.

I'd also have no issue with the can/manquillo/moreno/lambert signings. Mario is Mario, you get what you pay for. Need to see him playing with Sturridge or AN Other decent forward to get the best from him.

Slattsy

Chucky the tree wrote: »

He tries though. Displays a big heart. Thought you'd like that kind of thing?

^^^
Same as Henderson as far as im concerned.

Soft Falling Rain

Lovren is just so tragically out of his depth, and make no mistake, for those of you who want a pairing of him and Sakho are asking for more comedy.

Skrtel can do some infuriating things but he's still our best defender out of what we have. The other two are headless chickens that are a collapse waiting to happen.

djPSB

Slattsy wrote: »

^^^
Same as Henderson as far as im concerned.

The likes of Henderson and Allen are grand if you have the likes of Suarez and Sturridge ahead of them doing the magic.

Demosthenese

Strange that i think we all thought Lovren would be the next great thing at Centre back and has really been a disaster. Yet Lallana has equally been poor BUT we all seem to think he will come good.

I like Moreno but he needs serious work on his positioning and when to bomb forward. Same with Manquillo.

Sahko has been at the club for what feels like ages now but cannot get in? I just think that Rodgers has a certain player in mind for his team and Lucas/Lambert/Borini are not doing it for him right now but strangely enough Glen/Allen/Lazar/Skrtel are???

Gits_bone

Where was the video with the comments about Jones starting from now on?

mav79

Augeo wrote: »

Lovren does look completely and utterly woeful 95% of the time he has played of Liverpool. I can't see him coming good, Sakho I feel will be very good over the coming years, maybe even the second half of this season.

I believe this as well, but I fear if Rodgers keeps him on the bench when the likes of Skrtel and Lovren are starting we will see him looking very good for another team.

Francie Barrett

Augeo wrote: »

Taking a longterm view I reckon Lallana will be fine as I expect some goals from him as well as productive link up play with other attacking players.

I'd also have no issue with the can/manquillo/moreno/lambert signings. Mario is Mario, you get what you pay for. Need to see him playing with Sturridge or AN Other decent forward to get the best from him.

I do not understand how people can say that.

If 5th/6th is acceptable to people, then those players are probably good enough to achieve that.

If top 4 is the aim though, then those players by and large just aren't good enough.

djPSB

Francie Barrett wrote: »

I do not understand how people can say that.

If 5th/6th is acceptable to people, then those players are probably good enough to achieve that.

If top 4 is the aim though, then those players by and large just aren't good enough.

I'd say we'll be doing well to make top 6 the way things are going.

Gits_bone

What keeper will be brought in then?

Pretty terrible management practically ending Mignolets Liverpool career like this. He hasn't even been the worst performer..

Mr Alan

Gits_bone wrote: »

What keeper will be brought in then?

Pretty terrible management practically ending Mignolets Liverpool career like this. He hasn't even been the worst performer..

He has been poor since he signed.

But it seems incredibly random to take exception to his limited ability all of a sudden.

Seems like Rodgers trying to assign the role of scapegoat to anyone other than himself.

LuckyLloyd

Chucky the tree wrote: »

He tries though. Displays a big heart. Thought you'd like that kind of thing?

Unfortunately, the biggest heart can be overcome and rendered useless by a frail body lacking in power.

googled eyes

Gits_bone wrote: »

Where was the video with the comments about Jones starting from now on?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

Mr Alan

Re: Goalkeeper situation, we should offer Cech €150k per week & Chelsea a few million.

Ganymede Glow

Gits_bone wrote: »

What keeper will be brought in then?

Pretty terrible management practically ending Mignolets Liverpool career like this. He hasn't even been the worst performer..

This lad, apparently. He'll fit right in

https://vine.co/v/O69ZXF5Vp9X

Charlie19

The high hopes we had for Lovern.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEpoLdEeNE0

Chucky the tree

Mr Alan wrote: »

Re: Goalkeeper situation, we should offer Cech €150k per week & Chelsea a few million.

Jose said they won't sell him in January.

Francie Barrett

Francie Barrett wrote: »

I do not understand how people can say that.

If 5th/6th is acceptable to people, then those players are probably good enough to achieve that.

If top 4 is the aim though, then those players by and large just aren't good enough.

They are squad filler, none of them are bought to be fantastic.

English top tier football has moved on since the 80s, unfortunately the likelyhood is that if you are top 4 in €€££££$$$$$ than you won't be top 4 on the pitch.

Chelsea, Man City and Man Utd are a long way ahead in terms of €€££££$$$$$, Arsenal are too but they don't throw it around too much.

Can, the hope would be he'll be as good as Lucas ever was.

Manquillo, he's on loan anyway, at best he's decent.

Moreno, we'll likely have him in the starting 11 for years to come, he's no worse defencively than Johnson was at his peak.

Lambert - bought for back up, he's more than adequate for that, the likes of Lambert are needed when the calender is full of matches from multiple cups etc

Mario is Mario

klose

Ganymede Glow wrote: »

This lad, apparently. He'll fit right in

https://vine.co/v/O69ZXF5Vp9X

Ive also seen that perin fella from genoa linked, watched a bit of genoa today against roma, he got sent off.

daithijjj

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

Henderson is not hard to figure out. When the team is in form he's grand, but when the results drop so does his head and performance.

He's not a leader, and it's a bit of a joke that he's deputy captain. He only is because there's no-one else.

I cant agree with this tbh. Rodgers plays him in a different position almost on a weekly basis and changes his position during games on a weekly basis too.

He started playing left wing forward last week if im not mistaken, then where did he start today? Right wing back?. Rodgers has not only picked the wrong selections but he has picked form players like Sterling and Henderson have been over the last year and shoved them all over the park.

Honestly, the man hasnt a scooby right now. And fans are all over the gaff too. I dont think i saw one player not criticised today on my twitter timeline (and i have done the weeding). Literally everyone.

When the above happens, its the manager who is at fault. There are so many questionable decisions he is making i honestly wouldnt know where to start.

How the f**k can anyone defend a man who chooses to play a player v Chelsea and Madrid, do well, and hardly see him since?. And Lallana coming off?, wtf was that all about?. One of the only ones to make a true effort this season while on the pitch. Why is Joe Allen even entertained in the squad?.

This team needs 'muscle' and a solid backbone if they cant find forwards to score goals. What has Rodgers done about it?.

Mr Alan

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Jose said they won't sell him in January.

Jose says a lot. Not a lot of it true.

Offer them substantially more than they'd get in the summer & at least give them a really tough choice to make.

brevity

I think we almost had the defence sorted. We were keeping clean sheets, we could have sorted the goals eventually... I just cannot understand the logic of dropping Lucas and Toure (unless he wasnt fit) AND Mingolet.

The baffling treatment of Borini and Can...players who are able to make a difference...is another head scratcher.

He just doesn't know what to do IMO and because its just him and his BFF Pascoe, things aren't going to get better.

Mr Alan

Mr Alan wrote: »

Re: Goalkeeper situation, we should offer Cech €150k per week & Chelsea a few million.

I 100% agree.
Cech might even relish the opportunity to shore up the Liverpool defence and make a significant impact. It must have more appeal than bench warming.

Turtyturd

Augeo wrote: »

They are squad filler, none of them are bought to be fantastic.

English top tier football has moved on since the 80s, unfortunately the likelyhood is that if you are top 4 in €€££££$$$$$ than you won't be top 4 on the pitch.

Chelsea, Man City and Man Utd are a long way ahead in terms of €€££££$$$$$, Arsenal are too but they don't throw it around too much.

Can, the hope would be he'll be as good as Lucas ever was.

Manquillo, he's on loan anyway, at best he's decent.

Moreno, we'll likely have him in the starting 11 for years to come, he's no worse defencively than Johnson was at his peak.

Lambert - bought for back up, he's more than adequate for that, the likes of Lambert are needed when the calender is full of matches from multiple cups etc

Mario is Mario

Good to see whatawaster's position has been filled.

LuckyLloyd

A new manager coming in:

Needs to purchase goalkeepers.

Defensively, he needs to start coaching what's there. In terms of what's there though, between Toure / Sakho / Skrtel / Lovren / Moreno / Johnson / Enrique / Flanagan / Manquillo / Ilori he has something to work with. While Lovren has been a disaster, I think proper coaching and a solid goalkeeper behind them could see us improve in that area.

In terms of midfield options, he needs to purchase the kind of dominating force we require. That being said, Henderson / Can / Lucas aren't that bad. Gerrard / Allen aren't longterm options for different reasons, but a good solid signing here and an extension of Lucas and I think you've got lots to work with. There's also Rossiter coming through.

In terms of attacking midfielders, in Lallana / Coutinho / Sterling / Markovic there's talent. It needs to be used more judiciously and it needs a functioning striker to play off but there is talent there. Suso is also the forgotten man who could surely be worth some assessment the rest of the season at the very least.

Striker is a problem. There is Sturridge but he's made of glass. There is Balotelli and...well who the **** knows. There's definitely a bundle of talent lurking in the twisted oceans of his psyche. Lambert / Borini need to be cleared out, Origi needs to be brought back and someone needs to be signed.

We need:

Two Keepers (one to start and one to develop)
A defensive midfielder capable of dominating a game
A striker capable of reliably leading a line and linking up with the likes of Sterling / Lallana / Coutinho / Markovic

That's not soooo much work. And I think therein that lies the two reasons why Rodgers must be shown the door:

1) What we have is not being utilised efficiently;
2) I don't trust him with cash to address the three glaring gaps in the squad

I think one good window and a superior coaching staff could get us functioning again anyway.

klose

Im still surprised there has not been as big an uproar over glen johnson starting as a centre back today? Literally one of the strangest things I've ever seen. Whatever borini has done sakho must have done it too.

fulmer1984

Augeo wrote: »

I 100% agree.
Cech might even relish the opportunity to shore up the Liverpool defence and make a significant impact. It must have more appeal than bench warming.

Plus seems how Chelsea and pool are miles apart in terms of going for the league they might even sell cech to ya

Gits_bone

If FSG are penny pinchers maybe it might be worth going low risk into the championship?

Jordan Rhodes worth a gamble anyone? Would always sell him on if it didn't work...

Utopia Parkway

klose wrote: »

Im still surprised there has not been as big an uproar over glen johnson starting as a centre back today? Literally one of the strangest things I've ever seen. Whatever borini has done sakho must have done it too.

Sakho left Anfield when he wasn't selected that time. Probably in Rodgers' little black book ever since along with Borini who wouldn't leave to go to Sunderland.

fulmer1984

fulmer1984 wrote: »

Plus seems how Chelsea and pool are miles apart in terms of going for the league they might even sell cech to ya

Quite possibly.
Although add a decent keeper that stops 5/10 goals every 20 games over the current status and add a striker and all of a sudden you have a title challenge

5live

Turtyturd wrote: »

Hangballlouie's back....best bit of news all day.

Stop Searching My Posts wrote: »

Thanks Turty, missed you!!

Turtyturd wrote: »

Was tempted to sign up to twitter just to keep in touch.

Jeeze, get a room already:D

Augeo wrote: »

Unless you are FSG that comment is worthless.



There is a huge element of truth to this, Man City were spending big money for years before winning the title though so I can see the appeal of moneyball, to be fair FSG run a business it's not a hobby financed by other ventures. There's no doubt a happy medium but it's not easy to achieve.





Indeed, can't see Gerrard having any problem with Rodgers, as team captain he's not performing. Rodgers has commenced the necessary dropping/resting of Gerrard which at the start of the season many reckoned was his biggest challenge. Gerrard is needed on the pitch though so it's a quandary. Not easy to resolve either.

Any fans expecting a team of Liverpool's current income levels etc to be in the top 4 every year is in dreamland. For that to happen everything needs to fall just right.

Football, has a habit of not falling just right.

As against last year?:(

On the transfers, i don't really have a problem with them, they were pretty much in line with what was expected. FSG are not going to invest any more money in the club other than what they spent buying it so we will have to spend from out of our expected cashflows to buy. So £45m net was a good sum to spend.

Where i have a problem is with us not buying any leaders. In years gone by, Gerrard would rise to the occasion and pulled our asses out of the fire but he can barely run anymore. Who else out there said 'Fcuk this. THEY SHALL NOT PASS!'?
No-one.
Not one.
No player had the personality or the COHONES to stand up and be counted.

For that alone, Rodgers should be indicted!

Skrtel and Lovren should never never never never ever be on the pitch together again. Neither trust the other and there appears to be no communication, none whatever, between them on the pitch. The second goal today is a perfect illustration of them as a pairing.

Skrtel marking RVP and stepping 2 yards back off him and breaking a pretty decent line, with RVP being the main target in the box. Lovren marking Mata and realising that RVP is the danger man, switching off from Mata to mop up the disaster that was Skrtel being out of touch. He then doesn't pass on the marking of Mata to Moreno and Moreno doesn't call on him to stick with his man with Moreno covering the back of the line(he switches off altogether:mad:. Again:mad::mad:) Lovren then goes in to challenge and stops when he realises he can't help.

Christ almighty, its not difficult to communicate with each other during a game at whatever level you play at. You just shout and let the player know what he cannot see behind him.