Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Warning in OP, 10/12

rob316

garra wrote: »

We know he wanted Sanchez, I'm actually sick of hearing about how he wanted Sanchez. But failing to get your first target should never be an excuse for not having an adequate 2nd choice with the money he had available this summer. People talk about the committee but Rodgers has final veto on any target and he is responsible for our blunt strike-force. End of.

Word on the grapevine is he wanted Bony aswell, but the money men wouldn't pay the fee. Bony would have been a great signing. Who knows what happened with Remy too.

Its ridiculous to think that Rodgers was happy with his strike force going into this season after selling Suarez. He never wanted Balotelli we know that much but it was slim pickings.

5starpool

5starpool wrote: »

Our current run of form is barely better than that. We had a decent first half of the season that time though. If Rodgers gets 35 points or so from the last 21 games he can claim there is an improvement but it'll still overall have been a terrible season unless we have some silverware in the cabinet to show for it. 57 points, the league cup and the semi finals of the EL will be enough to see him at the club next season I reckon. 57, lose to Chelsea and nowhere in the other 2 cups might not be.

Yep, it's really up in the air.

Signing strikers in absolutely key. For a manager who plays attacking football and is willing to concede plenty, goalscorers are essential!

Pyjamarama

I think people have unrealistic expectations of what 100m gets you these days. Especially when you can't attract the very top level players.

That's not to conpletely excuse our transfer dealings cause only the most blind could say they've been anything more than disappointing. The hope is the glimpses of talent we've seen in the likes of Moreno, marcovich and sakho can come the fore. I happen to think Sakho is given too hard a time by some fans too btw.

Is that good enough? Nope but it's not the only thing you have to judge a manager on. Especially when we know he wanted other players who weren't signed.

BMMachine

A lot of the transfers just havent made any sense - He lets Agger and Reina go and now Kolo and Brad Jones are starting. Not exactly Kolo's fault, hes at the end of his career and doing as well as he can.. but he bought Sakho for what, 17 million and he looks headless. Theres a reason PSG sold him, they arent exactly a selling club.
He basically told Andy Carroll to pack his bags as soon as he got to the club, but then he signs Lambert and Borini. Carroll was still quite young and raw, and look at his form now.
He signs Coutinho and plays Sterling, 2 similar players... but then also signs Lallana and Markovic... 2 more lightweight attacking players. He signs Balotelli (which he admitted was a last chance) and yeah, turns out hes actually just a twitter profile and personality rather than an actual good player.
He signs Joe Allen and tries to alienate lucas from the team, a year later and Lucas is once again one of our most valuable players on the pitch whereas Allen is blamed for not being good enough.

To me - none of this makes sense for a 'top' manager. Gerrard again has to carry us but the poor lad is getting on a bit and cant be the player he was for us and without Sturridge we look completely inept when we attack and are reduced to dozens of long shots a game which go nowhere. I would be willing to give some of the young players time of course but there is a pattern here, Rodgers isn't sure what hes doing as regards who he wants to play and I personally think that the ideas he has in his head don't transfer well to the reality of how the game is played on the pitch, far too much of a blue sky thinker.

The solution? I dunno tbh...

Mr Alan

Pyjamarama wrote: »

I think people have unrealistic expectations of what 100m gets you these days. Especially when you can't attract the very top level players.

That's not to conpletely excuse our transfer dealings cause only the most blind could say they've been anything more than disappointing. The hope is the glimpses of talent we've seen in the likes of Moreno, marcovich and sakho can come the fore. I happen to think Sakho is given too hard a time by some fans too btw.

Is that good enough? Nope but it's not the only thing you have to judge a manager on. Especially when we know he wanted other players who weren't signed.

See I'm sorry, but this just reads as incredible excuse making to me.

It's closer to £150m spent this summer & while the monies involved in football have gone bananas, that's still an obscene amount to spend. By any standards.

Essentially, our objective this summer should have been to replace Suarez as best as we can & shore up the defense. We spent well over £100m and have not come anywhere close to doing either.

Pilsbury Doughboy

Just on the game yesterday I think it showed that Sterling playing up top is only gonna work in away matches, he needs space to run into, he was fairly ineffective yesterday, in home games I'd rather start with Balotelli for the next couple, he's obv more accustomed to playing that role than Sterling.

Markovic is showing some tiny glimpses of why we bought him, I thought Lucas was excellent yesterday, Sakho was pretty good, Skrtel thankfully got the goal but I'm fairly sick of seeing him play at this stage tbh

Edit : This Andy Carroll talk is a bit baffling to me, the lad has been injured for about 2 years , now he has scored about 3 goals and we're lamenting not having him, come on!

garra

rob316 wrote: »

Word on the grapevine is he wanted Bony aswell, but the money men wouldn't pay the fee. Bony would have been a great signing. Who knows what happened with Remy too.

Its ridiculous to think that Rodgers was happy with his strike force going into this season after selling Suarez. He never wanted Balotelli we know that much but it was slim pickings.

I don't think Rodgers was happy with his strike-force, and we know he wasn't happy with "last resort man", but that should not excuse his failure to land a decent striker.
Whether he was not pushy enough with the committee for other options or he could not identify the right targets, it all leads back to the man in charge.

I like the style of football Rodgers coaches, so I hope it still comes good for him but lets not be blinkered to his short-comings in the transfer market and in the defensive organisation of his teams.

5starpool

rarnes1 wrote: »

Yep, it's really up in the air.

Signing strikers in absolutely key. For a manager who plays attacking football and is willing to concede plenty, goalscorers are essential!

I'm not convinced that we will sign a striker in January. I'm convinced we will sign a keeper, but a striker I reckon is only 50/50, and that includes the bizarre possibility of paying an extra €6m to get a player we already own away from his loan.

If Sturridge breaks down again before the end of the month we might see an incoming player, but other than that I reckon on balance we won't have money to spend on a striker unless Borini leaves, or less likely, Balotelli.

Sir Gallagher

smileyj1987 wrote: »

The two games against city , the game at home to city in the league . Beating Everton in the semi final . Then the fa cup final too . It really did look like Kenny was going to get the best of Andy Carroll .

Huh? Pretty sure Carroll was in a decent bit of form, scored late winners against Blackburn and Everton in the semi final then Kenny dropped him for the final against Chelsea who then completely bossed us in that game.

We done well in the cups under Kenny, but after the dismal league run and of course t-shirt gate he was never going to last. It was probably unfair to expect him to take to top flight management again after so many years away.

byrneg28

rob316 wrote: »

Word on the grapevine is he wanted Bony aswell, but the money men wouldn't pay the fee. Bony would have been a great signing. Who knows what happened with Remy too.

Its ridiculous to think that Rodgers was happy with his strike force going into this season after selling Suarez. He never wanted Balotelli we know that much but it was slim pickings.

It's like , in August, he was a big kid with his birthday money and decided to buy FIFA 14 instead of wait until the new one came in a month later.

He had 16 million he settled for Balotelli, why couldn't he have just made do with what he had and bought a better striker in a different window!

brevity

https://twitter.com/paddypower/status/546980582681772033

ebbsy

The only thing that you can judge a manager on is results.

Turtyturd

Gits_bone

ebbsy wrote: »

The only thing that you can judge a manager on is results.

No, that's just the most important thing.

byrneg28

ebbsy wrote: »

The only thing that you can judge a manager on is results.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/football/video-1109003/Brendan-Rodgers-Liverpool-not-Tottenham.html

I happily judge him on this

Turtyturd

Rampage Johnson no longer just stealing toilet seats.

Magico Gonzalez

Still comically easy to score goals against, I don't believe it's down to individual ability either.

I would have thought that a smart manager would look at his attacking options, see that they were limited and decide that he better put a system in place which prioritises stopping other teams scoring. Stop the rot, sort out the fundamentals and develop from there.

Gits_bone

Why doesn't Skrtl attack the ball the same way he does when he's in the oppositions box?

Iused2likebusts

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Still comically easy to score goals against, I don't believe it's down to individual ability either.

I would have thought that a smart manager would look at his attacking options, see that they were limited and decide that he better put a system in place which prioritises stopping other teams scoring. Stop the rot, sort out the fundamentals and develop from there.

He tried that against Sunderland stoke and basle it was a disaster.

Pilsbury Doughboy

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

He tried that against Sunderland stoke and basle it was a disaster.

Yup, he started Lambert and tried to make us more solid, it worked in a way but came at the cost of absolutely turgid football, I'd rather go about it the way we are at the moment.

klose

BMMachine wrote: »

A lot of the transfers just havent made any sense - He lets Agger and Reina go and now Kolo and Brad Jones are starting. Not exactly Kolo's fault, hes at the end of his career and doing as well as he can.. but he bought Sakho for what, 17 million and he looks headless. Theres a reason PSG sold him, they arent exactly a selling club.
He basically told Andy Carroll to pack his bags as soon as he got to the club, but then he signs Lambert and Borini. Carroll was still quite young and raw, and look at his form now.
He signs Coutinho and plays Sterling, 2 similar players... but then also signs Lallana and Markovic... 2 more lightweight attacking players. He signs Balotelli (which he admitted was a last chance) and yeah, turns out hes actually just a twitter profile and personality rather than an actual good player.
He signs Joe Allen and tries to alienate lucas from the team, a year later and Lucas is once again one of our most valuable players on the pitch whereas Allen is blamed for not being good enough.

To me - none of this makes sense for a 'top' manager. Gerrard again has to carry us but the poor lad is getting on a bit and cant be the player he was for us and without Sturridge we look completely inept when we attack and are reduced to dozens of long shots a game which go nowhere. I would be willing to give some of the young players time of course but there is a pattern here, Rodgers isn't sure what hes doing as regards who he wants to play and I personally think that the ideas he has in his head don't transfer well to the reality of how the game is played on the pitch, far too much of a blue sky thinker.

The solution? I dunno tbh...

Don't think I've ever disagreed with a post as much before on here. Agger is on record saying he essentially didn't feel up to it playing in the premiership anymore? The lad is as loyal as they come i get that but you have to question someone who at their peak was happy to take a massive step down career wise.
Reina also, besides him looking like he's carrying a spare tyre around his waist you would also have to questions someones mentality and belief when he left to go to a club knowing full well he would be eternally a number 2 there as they already had the best keeper on the planet playing for.
Sakho was sold for 17 million in the last year of his contract, it was too good a deal for psg to turn down, they've spent over 100 million quid on centre backs he had every right to leave. He is for me our most talented and best defender.
Andy Caroll talk seriously? Not even worth debating, average one dimensional player that was the polar opposite of what Rodgers wanted. Lucas is still a fairly average player for what its worth and there is no way in hell Gerrard is carrying us, he has been a hindrance the last few games if anything. Rodgers would want to stop blindly persisting with him.

Magico Gonzalez

Reina had a run of poor form, that's why we bough Mignolet. We're starting to look decent going forward now but still don't have the def sorted.

People dont realise how much we miss Carragher's ability as a motivator and even more so as an organiser in defence. We don't have a leader back there and a weak gk situation is undermining them further.

Pyjamarama

Mr Alan wrote: »

See I'm sorry, but this just reads as incredible excuse making to me.

It's closer to £150m spent this summer & while the monies involved in football have gone bananas, that's still an obscene amount to spend. By any standards.

Essentially, our objective this summer should have been to replace Suarez as best as we can & shore up the defense. We spent well over £100m and have not come anywhere close to doing either.

It's not excuse making. I've stated the results of the transfers have not been good enough so far. But it's not as simple as you're making it out to bE either. Tbh I think the biggest stick to beat him with is the Lovern transfer as by all accounts that was who he wanted and tbh he had a very mediocre 2nd half to last season and he's been abysmal for us.

Another poster has commented about sakho looking like a headless chicken but he really isn't one. He's rash at times but that's all centre halves who like to attack the ball. He's been plagued with injuries but he keeps some very good defenders out of that French team on merit.

Also for those lamenting the loss of Agger... He is done. I'd rather Kolo any day of the week at this stage. Agger lost all his athleticism due to injuries. He left because he felt he wasn't up to the standard requires. Sure he even said as much himself. And while I'd love to have reina over Jones do you think Pepe was going to take a big pay cut? Cause he was on a lot of money.

Turtyturd

klose wrote: »

Don't think I've ever disagreed with a post as much before on here. Agger is on record saying he essentially didn't feel up to it playing in the premiership anymore? The lad is as loyal as they come i get that but you have to question someone who at their peak was happy to take a massive step down career wise.
Reina also, besides him looking like he's carrying a spare tyre around his waist you would also have to questions someones mentality and belief when he left to go to a club knowing full well he would be eternally a number 2 there as they already had the best keeper on the planet playing for.
Sakho was sold for 17 million in the last year of his contract, it was too good a deal for psg to turn down, they've spent over 100 million quid on centre backs he had every right to leave. He is for me our most talented and best defender.
Andy Caroll take seriously? Not even worth debating, average one dimensional player that was the polar opposite of what Rodgers wanted. Lucas is still a fairly average player for what its worth and there is no way in hell Gerrard is carrying us, he has been a hindrance the last few games if anything. Rodgers would want to stop blindly persisting with him.

Having to shift players around completely rather than making straight forward swap shows how afraid of the Gerrard issue he is, and how farcical the talk of him being dropped a few weeks back was.

Gits_bone

Gits_bone wrote: »

Rodgers tactics rely on pressing high in the first 20 minutes, going all out for goals and winning the game in that period. When teams don't concede in this time then Liverpools press is gone and they knock it around us.

As seen yesterday.



NOT

Milkers

5starpool wrote: »

It's not hard to get some facts to back up, or otherwise, your argument these days with decent search. Mr Alan has posted 412 times since the start of this season in the soccer forum, and last season between Christmas day, when we were top, and 26th May he posted 226 times. It is less (and in slightly more time) but to say that there were hardly any posts is blatantly false.

The whole discussion is very petty anyhow.

This discussion is petty and tiresome but it is also annoying to see facts misrepresented. If you want to talk about numbers do it properly. There have been 21 LFC Superthreads since Rodgers was appointed:

end month of thread|number of Mr Alan posts|notes
2012
Jul|168|Rodgers appointed in June
Aug|293|
Sep|184|
Nov|94|
Dec|125|Liverpool struggle badly up to Christmas

2013
Feb|33|Liverpool on a good run
Apr|38|
Jun|127|Season over
Jul|73|
Aug|165|
Sep|153|New (Epic) season starts
Nov|24|

2014
Jan|30|
Feb|47|
Mar|24|
May|37|
Jun|23|
Jul|11|
Aug|69|Season starts
Nov|124|Liverpool on a bad run
Current|202|

Agent Coulson

Brad Jones has earned over £7.5m as a Liverpool player playing 26 games not a bad gig if you can get it.

5starpool

5starpool wrote: »

I'm not convinced that we will sign a striker in January. I'm convinced we will sign a keeper, but a striker I reckon is only 50/50, and that includes the bizarre possibility of paying an extra €6m to get a player we already own away from his loan.

If Sturridge breaks down again before the end of the month we might see an incoming player, but other than that I reckon on balance we won't have money to spend on a striker unless Borini leaves, or less likely, Balotelli.

If we don't sign at least one striker in Jan, we are toast imo.

Sturridge is spending Christmas in America receiving treatment. I'm guessing we won't see him until near Feb. Tbh, I'd be hoping the club are planning without him considering he has broken down twice already. If he was a car I'd be trading in.

mosstin

Milkers wrote: »

This discussion is petty and tiresome but it is also annoying to see facts misrepresented. If you want to talk about numbers do it properly. There have been 21 LFC Superthreads since Rodgers was appointed:

end month of thread|number of Mr Alan posts|notes
2012
Jul|168|Rodgers appointed in June
Aug|293|
Sep|184|
Nov|94|
Dec|125|Liverpool struggle badly up to Christmas

2013
Feb|33|Liverpool on a good run
Apr|38|
Jun|127|Season over
Jul|73|
Aug|165|
Sep|153|New (Epic) season starts
Nov|24|

2014
Jan|30|
Feb|47|
Mar|24|
May|37|
Jun|23|
Jul|11|
Aug|69|Season starts
Nov|124|Liverpool on a bad run
Current|202|

****ing hell, I have seen it all now. Someone actually went to the trouble of researching this? Jesus wept.

mosstin

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Brad Jones has earned over £7.5m as a Liverpool player playing 26 games not a bad gig if you can get it.

"playing"

martyos121

Hyypia has just offered his resignation at Brighton.

More than likely to do with their bad form, but you never know, Brendan might've swallowed his pride and made contact over a possible coaching role to sort our "defence" out.

Here's hoping...

5starpool

martyos121 wrote: »

Hyypia has just offered his resignation at Brighton.

More than likely to do with their bad form, but you never know, Brendan might've swallowed his pride and made contact over a possible coaching role to sort our "defence" out.

Here's hoping...

No chance. Going from manager at Bayer Leverkusen, to manager at Brighton to defensive coach at Liverpool would be totally conceding that he can't and won't make it as a manager.

Milkers

mosstin wrote: »

****ing hell, I have seen it all now. Someone actually went to the trouble of researching this? Jesus wept.

Only in Ireland where there is an abhorrence of things like facts figures and transparency would this be called "research". Took ~5 minutes.

martyos121

5starpool wrote: »

No chance. Going from manager at Bayer Leverkusen, to manager at Brighton to defensive coach at Liverpool would be totally conceding that he can't and won't make it as a manager.

Well maybe he can't? Half a decent season at Leverkusen followed by a disaster at Brighton, not many would be too confident of their managerial ability after such a fall from grace. It's not like he inherited a bad squad at Brighton, only big player he lost was Ulloa.

Kirby

Some people find their level and accept it. Others rebel against it and try to be something they are not.

Maybe he's the former and knows his level is coaching? Who knows.

mikeym

Turtyturd wrote: »

He didnt even want to score against his old club.


Hes one of the worst players we have ever signed.

Kirby

Some folk would claim not a dive there.

He made contact! Yeah.....with the ground. :P

ush

5starpool wrote: »

No chance. Going from manager at Bayer Leverkusen, to manager at Brighton to defensive coach at Liverpool would be totally conceding that he can't and won't make it as a manager.

PhiloCypher

Mr Alan wrote: »

Our next run of games is a god send.

It's about as soft a run of fixtures as anyone can hope for. Hopefully at the end of that, the league table will look a lot healthier & we can start thinking about trying to sneak over the line into a top 4 place.

Someone posted the next 3 fixtures of all the teams above us on Rawk

Liverpool: Burnley A, Swansea H, Leicester H

Arsenal: QPR H, West Ham A, Saints, A

Man U: Newcastle H, Spurs A, Stoke A

Spurs: Leicester A, Man U H, Chelsea H

West Ham: Chelsea A, Arsenal H, WBA H

Saints: Palace A, Chelsea H, Arsenal H

If we can't make ground on some if not all of the above by new years I give up.

5starpool

Mike Marsh was a defender, Colin Pascoe I read somewhere was a defender, although the internet has failed me in my quest to verify that in less than 60 seconds effort.

Turtyturd

mikeym wrote: »

He didnt even want to score against his old club.


Hes one of the worst players we have ever signed.

Yep, completely bottled it. Never should have played for the club again after it.

kfallon

5starpool wrote: »

Mike Marsh was a defender, Colin Pascoe I read somewhere was a defender, although the internet has failed me in my quest to verify that in less than 60 seconds effort.

Mike Marsh was a midfielder tho he did tog out at full back for a while under Souness during an injury crisis, think he played right back in that win over Auxerre!

martyos121

And he's officially gone now. Would make a great defensive coach for us, and would add some much needed character and authority in training. Can see Hyypia taking Sakho under his wing.

LuckyLloyd

Milkers wrote: »

This discussion is petty and tiresome but it is also annoying to see facts misrepresented. If you want to talk about numbers do it properly. There have been 21 LFC Superthreads since Rodgers was appointed:

end month of thread|number of Mr Alan posts|notes
2012
Jul|168|Rodgers appointed in June
Aug|293|
Sep|184|
Nov|94|
Dec|125|Liverpool struggle badly up to Christmas

2013
Feb|33|Liverpool on a good run
Apr|38|
Jun|127|Season over
Jul|73|
Aug|165|
Sep|153|New (Epic) season starts
Nov|24|

2014
Jan|30|
Feb|47|
Mar|24|
May|37|
Jun|23|
Jul|11|
Aug|69|Season starts
Nov|124|Liverpool on a bad run
Current|202|

The contention tabled was that Alan was nowhere to be seen during last season. Your own figures don't support that. Yeah, he posts more when we do poorly. I would be very confident that the thread velocity is generally much higher when we're doing poorly or when things go tits up on transfers. As such, the fact that he posts more during those phases is not necessarily all down to agendas. I reckon it's also partly down to posting more when the topic is faster moving and more interesting.

Either way, Alan and everyone else should keep posting as and when they prefer.

I think there should be a Mr Alan Superthread!

Gits_bone

mosstin wrote: »

****ing hell, I have seen it all now. Someone actually went to the trouble of researching this? Jesus wept.

LOL'd at this.

5starpool

kfallon wrote: »

Mike Marsh was a midfielder tho he did tog out at full back for a while under Souness during an injury crisis, think he played right back in that win over Auxerre!

Mike Marsh was a midfielder? My memory is obviously playing tricks on me. I thought he was primarily a full back for us, but I'll assume your more confident assertion is safer than mine. He wasn't a legend in any position for us anyhow it's safe to assume.

I'm not sure why, but I don't really like Colin Pascoe. He's done nothing particularly to offend me (except wear shorts the whole time), but I'd be happy to replace him with someone who knows what defending consists of.

Turtyturd

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Either way, Alan and everyone else should keep posting as and when they prefer.

This.

If you don't like the pro Rodgers stuff ignore it.

If you don't like the anti Rodgers stuff ignore it.

If you don't like certain posters ignore them.

If you hate everything about the thread why bother coming into it?

Turtyturd

The thing that annoys me about Pascoe is that he always has a look on his face like someone on a hidden camera show who just witnessed a prank...completely dumbfounded.

Hangballlouie

Turtyturd wrote: »

The thing that annoys me about Pascoe is that he always has a look on his face like someone on a hidden camera show who just witnessed a prank...completely dumbfounded.

Great analogy Turty. He really does have a big Beadles About head on him.