Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Warning in OP, 10/12

mosstin

Mr Alan wrote: »

Maybe if Rodgers bought a player as good as Suarez in the same window i'd be a bit more forgiving.

I agree the Carroll transfer was awful btw. Absolutely shocking. Just saying it doesn't anger me like it does some people. Likely because we did some really great business over the same period like Suarez & Henderson.

Whereas with Rodgers, it's been universally poor except for Sturridge & maybe Coutinho, despite the mega money spent.

To qualify, £35m should get guaranteed world class, yet look at the money spent on Balotelli, Lallana, Allen, Sakho, Borini, Markovic, Lovern...about £150m down the pretty much down the toilet when it comes to getting top 4 this year.

I can forgive 1, 2, 3 bad signings. I've always said a manager with a 50:50 rate is doing well. Rodgers is just nowhere near that. And that isn't my perceived dislike of him coming to that conclusion, even his fans agree!

Too early to judge any of the 3 bolded though with Lovren it really doesn't look promising. Lallana you feel will come good though we've overpaid for him for sure. Markovic looks like he's finding his feet but talk of him "justifying his fee" is as premature as is talk of his fee being money down the toilet.

Mr Alan

mosstin wrote: »

Too early to judge any of the 3 bolded though with Lovren it really doesn't look promising. Lallana you feel will come good though we've overpaid for him for sure. Markovic looks like he's finding his feet but talk of him "justifying his fee" is as premature as is talk of his fee being money down the toilet.

I specifically made reference to them not contributing anything to us getting top 4 this year.

I think everyone agrees that it was hugely important that we try & re-establish ourselves as a top 4 side by getting back into the CL next season.

However, pretty much none of the £150m odd spent in the summer is going to assist in that immediate goal. It's criminal.

SM01

The acquisitions under Kenny were poor, similarly the policy under Rodgers has been lamentable. Arguing which is more sh!te is... well, you're on a hiding to nothing. Neither manager's transfer activities come out smelling of roses. This mooted review of transfer policy needs to take a cold hard look at the club's failings when it comes to acquiring players under FSG and any new 'policy' should start with the fundamental question 'Will X improve the first team?' If no, then scratch out that prospect's name pronto.

citytillidie

Oh just read that cluster of a match thread for Sunday's game and have to laugh at those arsenal fans calling the ref a homer when Flamini was still on the pitch in the 2nd half

He also missed a number of Arsenal players kick the ball away so if he did not card them he should not have given Borini a card.

Was a good game pity we could not take our chances and put away such a poor team

Also stay classy Arsenal fans chanting to Skrtel to get up there is f*ck all wrong with you, when he was getting treatment

mosstin

citytillidie wrote: »

Oh just read that cluster of a match thread for Sunday's game and have to laugh at those arsenal fans calling the ref a homer when Flamini was still on the pitch in the 2nd half

He also missed a number of Arsenal players kick the ball away so if he did not card them he should not have given Borini a card.

Was a good game pity we could not take our chances and put away such a poor team

Also stay classy Arsenal fans chanting to Skrtel to get up there is f*ck all wrong with you, when hevwas getting treatment

In fairness to them, they were probably surprised that Giroud had hit his intended target.

Turtyturd

citytillidie wrote: »

Oh just read that cluster of a match thread for Sunday's game and have to laugh at those arsenal fans calling the ref a homer when Flamini was still on the pitch in the 2nd half

He also missed a number of Arsenal players kick the ball away so if he did not card them he should not have given Borini a card.

Was a good game pity we could not take our chances and put away such a poor team

Also stay classy Arsenal fans chanting to Skrtel to get up there is f*ck all wrong with you, when hevwas getting treatment

Didn't notice this, but it's funny considering the outrage they display towards Stoke fans.

Maybe we should start a smear campaign against French Andy Carroll.

Jesus Wept

Hidalgo wrote: »

Lambert for a couple of million to offer a plan B (which sadly) became plan A for a handful of games v Andy Carroll for a then £35m. Closer to £45m now since the last tv deal.

Factoring for new tv deals. Craziest thing I've seen on this thread since the breakdown of Alans post count over the last 36 months.

citytillidie

Turtyturd wrote: »

Didn't notice this, but it's funny considering the outrage they display towards Stoke fans.

Maybe we should start a smear campaign against French Andy Carroll.

I was behind the nets at the Anfield Road end of the ground so beside them, dunno if it was picked up on tv

Pilsbury Doughboy

mosstin wrote: »

In fairness to them, they were probably surprised that Giroud had hit his intended target.

He also hit the intended target through Jones' legs unfortunately.

citytillidie

Pilsbury Doughboy wrote: »

He also hit the intended target through Jones' legs unfortunately.

Shhh behind the net for that goal it was like the Liverpool defence was going in slow motion you could see the ball that was coming in, why did Toure stop running even if he had slid would have cut out that ball

mada999

klose wrote: »

Should have only loaned shelvey too. Might aswell go for the full house while we're at it.

well tbh i would have kept Shelvey and not got in Allen.... he's a weakling with no redeeming features to speak of other than losing the ball when pressed or passing the ball sideways... at least Shelvey can score a couple of goals..

mada999

Mr Alan wrote: »

He's far better than Allen who is on far higher wages & cost £15m transfer fee & a £2m signing on fee

agreed 100000000%

mada999

Agent Coulson wrote: »

The Mirror has that Cech's agent has informed the club that he is available.

I'm on my phone so I can't link it right now,

well just tell him to sign, no need to link anything.. get it done lad..

mada999

citytillidie wrote: »

Shhh behind the net for that goal it was like the Liverpool defence was going in slow motion you could see the ball that was coming in, why did Toure stop running even if he had slid would have cut out that ball

and also why didnt gerrard float in and see the danger...

No way Chelsea will sell us Cech. I know he's injured but we got a great deal from them with Sturridge and they might regret that. Maybe not now but last season they probably did.

We might be no threat to them now but who knows what will happen in a season or two.

If I was Mourinho I'd be selling him abroad

Mr Alan

Without getting all Tony Soprano, make the club & player an offer that they won't be able to turn down.

We've spent so much on players who contribute nothing, no objections to overspending on players who will contribute plenty.

Hidalgo

Is today's topic Allen v Shelvey??

Neither are good enough. Shelvey should have been sold and the Allen fee should have gone towards a 'proper good' DM. One with a physical presence.

Gits_bone

Shelvey was the exact type of player that is needed throughout the season, like a Fletcher or Garcia.

WHen you're 2-0 up (in the ideal world) you put on Shelvey and close the game out. Good enough quality for 30 mins, won't win any games but would be useful to have. Not good enough to start though.

Agent Coulson

Mr Alan wrote: »

Without getting all Tony Soprano, make the club & player an offer that they won't be able to turn down.

We've spent so much on players who contribute nothing, no objections to overspending on players who will contribute plenty.

Well this it is with all transfers.

There is talk about paying €6m to get Origi back 6 months early from his loan deal.

A totally crazy place to be.

Now if the club has that €6m to use why wasn't it used to offer Sanchez an extra £30k a week to change his mind about living in London. More money in his bank account or living in London give him an offer he would have found very hard to turn down.

rob316

Mr Alan wrote: »

Without getting all Tony Soprano, make the club & player an offer that they won't be able to turn down.

We've spent so much on players who contribute nothing, no objections to overspending on players who will contribute plenty.

This!


His experience, leadership and talent would be worth every penny of a high fee. Chelsea are a club that spends what it makes now, a bid of something like £15m would be very tough for them to ignore.
He's still only 32 and could solve our goalkeeping problems for the next 3/4 seasons.

Chucky the tree

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Well this it is with all transfers.

There is talk about paying €6m to get Origi back 6 months early from his loan deal.

A totally crazy place to be.

Now if the club has that €6m to use why wasn't it used to offer Sanchez an extra £30k a week to change his mind about living in London. More money in his bank account or living in London give him an offer he would have found very hard to turn down.

The problem then becomes every other player starts to to look for a similar % increase and soon you are in an Arsenal situation.

Agent Coulson

Chucky the tree wrote: »

The problem then becomes every other player starts to to look for a similar % increase and soon you are in an Arsenal situation.

Or we don't pay them and their agents start talking to the press.

See Sterling.

Edit; or we buy 10 average players and pay them average wages and we become a midtable average team.

Will I Amnt

Chucky the tree wrote: »

The problem then becomes every other player starts to to look for a similar % increase and soon you are in an Arsenal situation.

He would be a big player signed on big wages, it's not an increase.
Suarez was on a fairly high wage by all accounts, if someone is looking an increase they need to show they're worth it.

brevity

Chucky the tree wrote: »

The problem then becomes every other player starts to to look for a similar % increase and soon you are in an Arsenal situation.

There are very few players at the club that deserve anything like what players of Ozil's or Sanchez's ilk are on.

I would love to be in the room when Henderson or Johnson make that request.

Players who have won things and who do win things should be offered more IMO.

Ste-

Gits_bone wrote: »

Shelvey was the exact type of player that is needed throughout the season, like a Fletcher or Garcia.

WHen you're 2-0 up (in the ideal world) you put on Shelvey and close the game out. Good enough quality for 30 mins, won't win any games but would be useful to have. Not good enough to start though.

Til he loses the head gets shown a straight red and all of a sudden it's 11v10 and under pressure.

Shelvey was decent but I don't see any change in him since he's gone to swansea then when he was with us. At any given time he looks like he could see red.

Gits_bone

Ste- wrote: »

Til he loses the head gets shown a straight red and all of a sudden it's 11v10 and under pressure.

Shelvey was decent but I don't see any change in him since he's gone to swansea then when he was with us. At any given time he looks like he could see red.

I don't think he'd lose the head if the good is gone from the game.

gafferino

Mr Alan wrote: »

Maybe if Rodgers bought a player as good as Suarez in the same window i'd be a bit more forgiving.

I agree the Carroll transfer was awful btw. Absolutely shocking. Just saying it doesn't anger me like it does some people. Likely because we did some really great business over the same period like Suarez & Henderson.

Whereas with Rodgers, it's been universally poor except for Sturridge & maybe Coutinho, despite the mega money spent.

To qualify, £35m should get guaranteed world class, yet look at the money spent on Balotelli, Lallana, Allen, Sakho, Borini, Markovic, Lovern...about £150m down the pretty much down the toilet when it comes to getting top 4 this year.

I can forgive 1, 2, 3 bad signings. I've always said a manager with a 50:50 rate is doing well. Rodgers is just nowhere near that. And that isn't my perceived dislike of him coming to that conclusion, even his fans agree!

Well yeah I agree our transfers for the most part have bee underwhelming but I think that is a club problem that has been going on for years. We just dont go for the big guns most of the time and its frustrating as f*ck when you see united go out and buy anyone they want - I know they have far more money and all that but I think its a different strategy too.

Henderson was a lost sheep the first couple of seasons he was here. I really like him and he's proved me wrong but I still think he needs to step up another level - he seemed to do this for a short period when we were missing Gerrard last season.

I think its far too early to judge Markovic and I think Lallana will prove a good buy for us. Really looking forward to seeing him play with Sturridge. I also think Emre Can has been decent in the little we have seen of him. So there are some good players there IMO but its the world class players we are missing and I think we could have done with 1 or 2 less players to pay for the big guns.

whatawaster

Shelvey is a decent player, but not close to Joe Allen imo

People give Allen a ridiculously hard time on here. His contribution to our excellent season last year should not be forgotten. Some of our best performances of the season were built on Allen AND Henderson's pressing and energy in midfield.

Yes, he has been poor this season, but it seems that every time he gives a bad performance you get people in here saying he is not good enough for Liverpool, or, most ridiculously, is not physical enough for Liverpool. Henderson has been almost as bad this season but gets almost no criticism.

Gits_bone

whatawaster wrote: »

Shelvey is a decent player, but not close to Joe Allen imo

People give Allen a ridiculously hard time on here. His contribution to our excellent season last year should not be forgotten. Some of our best performances of the season were built on Allen AND Henderson's pressing and energy in midfield.

Yes, he has been poor this season, but it seems that every time he gives a bad performance you get people in here saying he is not good enough for Liverpool, or, most ridiculously, is not physical enough for Liverpool. Henderson has been almost as bad this season but gets almost no criticism.

Henderson has to accomadate Steve where as Allen is the same type as Lucas. Henderson is being held back.

ThunbergsAreGo

Would Cech actually be the answer for us?

Didnt he suffer alot when asked to play under Vilas Boas with a high line?

gafferino

whatawaster wrote: »

Shelvey is a decent player, but not close to Joe Allen imo

People give Allen a ridiculously hard time on here. His contribution to our excellent season last year should not be forgotten. Some of our best performances of the season were built on Allen AND Henderson's pressing and energy in midfield.

Yes, he has been poor this season, but it seems that every time he gives a bad performance you get people in here saying he is not good enough for Liverpool, or, most ridiculously, is not physical enough for Liverpool. Henderson has been almost as bad this season but gets almost no criticism.

I dont get the Allen hate either. I think his price tag has put a lot of people off him but I think at times he has been excellent. What he lacks is consistency in his performances.

cj maxx

Agent Coulson wrote: »

The Mirror has that Cech's agent has informed the club that he is available.

Good keeper but wasn't quite the same after his injury
Improvement on what we have though

5starpool

Joe Allen has had some good games for us, but they have been far outweighed by the games where he has been as effective as a wet paper towel.

Kirby

Indeed. I think people are under the illusion that he is the same keeper he was ten years ago when he was 22. He's not. Many get better in that time but Cech has gone the other way.

He's better than what Liverpool have and that is the important thing, but I wouldn't be in a rush to pay the 15 million to Chelsea and offer him the 150k a week that he will want. It's not a cheap option.

GavRedKing

Kirby wrote: »

Indeed. I think people are under the illusion that he is the same keeper he was ten years ago when he was 22. He's not. Many get better in that time but Cech has gone the other way.

He's better than what Liverpool have and that is the important thing, but I wouldn't be in a rush to pay the 15 million to Chelsea and offer him the 150k a week that he will want. It's not a cheap option.

Hes got 18months left on his contract, 15million is about 5 million to much.

Also, Cech would start for probably every team in the world that arent Utd or Bayern, I dont want him sold but I cant see him signing an extension so selling him in the summer is best for all invovled.

Kirby

I would strongly disagree with that one. The longer he is sat on the bench the better he gets apparently. I still remember the slow and jittery Cech more than the unstoppable one of Mourinho's first stint at Chelsea. That Cech is long gone. There is a reason he was replaced by a kid. That kid might be the next great thing, in my opinion he is, but to replace a long term keeper with a kid with a couple of seasons under him is a statement.....and it's a statement I agree with and heed.

And Chelsea aren't going to sell to Liverpool for cheap. It might be 10 million to a foreign club but that price is going up if he's to stay in the league....18 months left or not.

GavRedKing

Kirby wrote: »

I would strongly disagree with that one. The longer he is sat on the bench the better he gets apparently. I still remember the slow and jittery Cech more than the unstoppable one of Mourinho's first stint at Chelsea. That Cech is long gone. There is a reason he was replaced by a kid. That kid might be the next great thing, in my opinion he is, but to replace a long term keeper with a kid with a couple of seasons under him is a statement.....and it's a statement I agree with and heed.

And Chelsea aren't going to sell to Liverpool for cheap. It might be 10 million to a foreign club but that price is going up if he's to stay in the league....18 months left or not.

He was the best in the league last year and prior to that was consistently good enough to be a top 5 in the world GK, probably higher too.

When you're bringing in the 2nd best GK in the world its a banker the guy who was number 1 will be benched or sold, Courtois is the future.

I also dont think Cech will be sold in January unless he pushes it from his side, given we're in still in for all possible trophies and hes likely to play all the Capital 1 cup games, I just cant see him jumping ship mid-season.

Charlie19

Shelvey is a slower and lazier version of a current Steven Gerrard.

He also said himself that he needed to move on, to get regular football.

5live

Hidalgo wrote: »

Is today's topic Allen v Shelvey??

Neither are good enough. Shelvey should have been sold and the Allen fee should have gone towards a 'proper good' DM. One with a physical presence.

whatawaster wrote: »

Shelvey is a decent player, but not close to Joe Allen imo

People give Allen a ridiculously hard time on here. His contribution to our excellent season last year should not be forgotten. Some of our best performances of the season were built on Allen AND Henderson's pressing and energy in midfield.

Yes, he has been poor this season, but it seems that every time he gives a bad performance you get people in here saying he is not good enough for Liverpool, or, most ridiculously, is not physical enough for Liverpool. Henderson has been almost as bad this season but gets almost no criticism.

Allen was bought when the focus of the club was 'Death by Football' and Allen started off well for us, with a great ability to recycle the ball and change the focus of the attack. It's not a surprise that he doesn't look as accomplished in the side this year when there is virtually nobody to recycle the ball to except the two CBs.

He also brought the knowledge of Rodgers system and that was a huge advantage as the team tried to follow a completely different style.

If the current system stays for a while, I think Allen will look better again as he will have options either side and in front of him to pass the ball to.

MD1990

Cech since his head injury hasn't been the same. Isn't commanding from crosses & would'nt rush out to collect balls partly because of his head injury. We don't want another Johnson, Cole situation. Look at Ashley Cole too having a terrible time in Italy. When Mourinho drops a player its clear there are declining. We should be looking at a GK from Spain plenty of good keepers in La Liga.

Blatter

MD1990 wrote: »

Cech since his head injury hasn't been the same. Isn't commanding from crosses & would'nt rush out to collect balls partly because of his head injury. We don't want another Johnson, Cole situation. Look at Ashley Cole too having a terrible time in Italy. When Mourinho drops a player its clear there are declining. We should be looking at a GK from Spain plenty of good keepers in La Liga.

I hardly think you're in a position to turn your nose up at Petr Cech.

gafferino

5starpool wrote: »

Joe Allen has had some good games for us, but they have been far outweighed by the games where he has been as effective as a wet paper towel.

Yeah it is consistency he is missing. We have seen he is capable of it at times but just not often enough.

LuckyLloyd

5starpool wrote: »

Joe Allen has had some good games for us, but they have been far outweighed by the games where he has been as effective as a wet paper towel.

He's a weak little nothing footballer ultimately. When a player is given lots of game time in a side that was winning lots of matches for a period then yeah - he'll have some good games. This season he's been the first player to break under pressure. Weak.

Keep it in the family Fabio. Jesus Christ

gafferino

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

He's a weak little nothing footballer ultimately. When a player is given lots of game time in a side that was winning lots of matches for a period then yeah - he'll have some good games. This season he's been the first player to break under pressure. Weak.

'A weak little nothing player, if a team is playing well then he can have some good games'.

So not one bit of credit to Allen? He is not nearly as bad as you make out. He has been the first to break - what does that mean? He broke then the rest of the team followed suit? Have you been watching for the 'first to break' each match? Nonsense..... you could aim that accusation at a lot if not all of the players at various stages.

Kirby

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

This season he's been the first player to break....

Surely Sturridge was the first to break? :P

Riesen_Meal

rarnes1 wrote: »

Keep it in the family Fabio. Jesus Christ

Was that not a while back?

T-K-O

naughtb4 wrote: »

Would Cech actually be the answer for us?

Didnt he suffer alot when asked to play under Vilas Boas with a high line?

This. Most keepers will suffer playing under BR. Screw up the first back pass, dont worry, cos Skrtel and the boys win ensure to play every single possible ball back to you.

It drives me crazy, our defenders wont take the chance but see fit to put the GK under that pressure.

SM01

Cech is an excellent answer to our goalkeeping woes. The argument that he has deteriorated is fallacy (IMO). He had a period after the Hunt clash where his form wavered slightly (but even that was exaggerated by the media and rival supporters) but for the last couple of years he's been a supreme goalkeeper. If he's not as good as Courtois, he's only very marginally behind him. If he's available, do everything to get him. He's still one of the best keepers in the world.

super_furry

These Torres rumours don't seem to be going away. Really hope there's nothing in them, it would be such a huge backwards step.