Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Warning in OP, 10/12

NukaCola

Mr Alan wrote: »

It's 28 games I believe.

He's an international player in his mid twenties with loads of top level experience who cost aporox £20m.

How many games does it take before it's ok to have an opinion on him?

It was widely reported that he cost 15m.
He has made 25 appearances.

You can have an opinion on any player at any time you like. Personally I wouldn't call a player an appalling signing after 25 games.

MD1990

Sakho was playing well before his hamstring injury last December imo.

SuperTortoise

Mr Alan wrote: »

It's 28 games I believe.

He's an international player in his mid twenties with loads of top level experience who cost aporox £20m.

How many games does it take before it's ok to have an opinion on him?

Of what i've seen of him in those games i am confident his ceiling is much higher than any other CB we have at the club, even now i'd rate him above Lovren and Skittles on current ability.

Mr Alan

NukaCola wrote: »

You can have an opinion on any player at any time you like. Personally I wouldn't call a player an appalling signing after 25 games.

So when is it ok to have an opinion?

Put it like this, Sakho is at the club longer than Andy Carroll, Downing, Adam ever were....so presumably it's ridiculous to have had any opinion on them?

If I searched for your thoughts on those players, would I find a consistent approach in line with what you're saying here now about Sakho? Or would I find you slating them as ****e signings?

MD1990

I know Lovren & Sakho were not good when they played together this season but I would like to see them given 5-10 games in the back 4 for us try to play a high line with pressure high up the pitch wih Borini & Balotelli up front.
I would like us to go once Sakho is fit. Also Flanagan is proving to be a big enough loss imo.

---

Mignolet

---

Manquillo--Lovren--Sakho--Moreno

---

Gerrard

---

---

Henderson----Coutinho

---

Sterling

---

---

Balotelli----Borini---

Sturridge in place of Borini once fit.

NukaCola

Mr Alan wrote: »

So when is it ok to have an opinion?

Put it like this, Sakho is at the club longer than Andy Carroll, Downing, Adam ever were....so presumably it's ridiculous to have had any opinion on them?

Did i say its ridiculous to have an opinion on him?

You do realise he was signed last summer though? One full season and a bit.

Downing had 2 full seasons.
Adam has more games and approx the same time.
Carroll had a full season and a half.

tok9

You can have an opinion, just don't be expecting everyone to agree with it.

Mr Alan

NukaCola wrote: »

Did i say its ridiculous to have an opinion on him?

You do realise he was signed last summer though? One full season and a bit.

Downing had 2 full seasons.
Adam has more games and approx the same time.
Carroll had a full season and a half.

I had in my head he was signed the Jan before, but regardless, my point is pretty much the same. He has had plenty of time & shown **** all.

Mr Alan

tok9 wrote: »

You can have an opinion, just don't be expecting everyone to agree with it.

People saying it's silly to have an opinion this early is what's grating. Those people are just wrong.

Francie Barrett

The difference between us and the other big clubs is that they have accepted that you need to spend massively to bring in top quality play-making/attacking talent. We on the other hand are missing out on these players because we got stung so badly on Carroll that the owners have adopted the strategy of quantity over quality. Before we even kicked a ball this season, I was appalled with our transfers over the Summer. Lallana was way too expensive, £25M for a 26 year old who although is a good player, wasn't likely to step up to be CL quality. £20M on Markovic is starting to look like the worst bit of business we've done. At least when things were going wrong for Sterling last season, I was always confident that he was always getting on the ball, trying different things and working his nuts off. I don't see that from Markovic. What's annoying is that we're about see Suso leave the club on a free, a player who has actually contributed more his career than Markovic. Massively overspending on defenders was also another big mistake. Skrtel and Agger might have mistakes in them but they are generally very good players. We've just spent £50M to replace them, and the defence looks even worse. The fact we miss out on so many of our targets is a damning indictment of our transfer policy.

Hopefully the owners learn from all this and in the next window we focus on quality.

MD1990

Francie Barrett wrote: »

The difference between us and the other big clubs is that they have accepted that you need to spend massively to bring in top quality play-making/attacking talent. We on the other hand are missing out on these players because we got stung so badly on Carroll that the owners have adopted the strategy of quantity over quality. Before we even kicked a ball this season, I was appalled with our transfers over the Summer. Lallana was way too expensive, £25M for a 26 year old who although is a good player, wasn't likely to step up to be CL quality. £20M on Markovic is starting to look like the worst bit of business we've done. At least when things were going wrong for Sterling last season, I was always confident that he was always getting on the ball, trying different things and working his nuts off. I don't see that from Markovic. What's annoying is that we're about see Suso leave the club on a free, a player who has actually contributed more his career than Markovic. Massively overspending on defenders was also another big mistake. Skrtel and Agger might have mistakes in them but they are generally very good players. We've just spent £50M to replace them, and the defence looks even worse. The fact we miss out on so many of our targets is a damning indictment of our transfer policy.

Hopefully the owners learn from all this and in the next window we focus on quality.

Spot on Francie. Thats my huge worry with Markovic is from the outset has tried to do nothing. He is young but needs to show more courage to try something.

Gbear

NukaCola wrote: »

Sakho has also only played 20 odd games.

That is certainly a problem in itself. The same is true of Allen. He's never had a period of several months where he's made himself a fixture.

But unless the players was already a sicknote when you signed them, I'm not sure how you can fault the manager for signing them.

slingerz

I think Gerrard can only be accommodated as a striker rather than anywhere else on the pitch. Anywhere else and his lack of legs could be exposed by opponents at least as a second striker he could use his intelligence and shooting ability

Something like

Mignolet
Manquillo Skrtel Lovren Moreno
Henderson Allen
Sterling Coutinho
Balotelli Gerrard

K-9

Mr Alan wrote: »

People saying it's silly to have an opinion this early is what's grating. Those people are just wrong.

It was silly to have these opinions 2 years ago and last season. People having mid life crisises over Rodgers joining. Similar 7/8 games in last season and after losing to City and Chelsea at Christmas.

Rodgers has proven the doubters wrong both seasons so while it mightn't be silly now, it isn't really based on much. We are still only 3 points of 4th, CL knock out football is in our hands and we've a Cup run.

Gbear

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Certainly is when you consider how ropey Napoli have been bar beating Roma.

They've gotten their **** together after a really bad start. Really it was the disastrous loss to Bilbao and two bad results at the start of the league season that put Benitez under pressure. Since then they've done pretty well.

Their problem is a lack of spending. They were a long way behind Juventus and haven't made up any ground on their squad.

Roma have done some smart business in the last couple of years as well.

Turtyturd

Whether Markovic comes good or not we shouldn't be pining after players of Suso's quality.

GotTheTshirt

Mr Alan wrote: »

So it's the injuries fault now :rolleyes:

It's a definate consideration over the short term which is what we're discussing.

He is in his third season & it does appear the more he puts his own stamp on the team, the worse it gets. I hope I'm wrong.

You neglected to quote this part of my post.

18 months we got better and better, one poor spell after a huge upheavel this summer shouldn't be any cause for panic.



In August people were saying give it a month.

In September, give it two months

Etc etc etc

It's a quarter way through the season now & you're saying he should apparently get 5 months of total dross before it's alright to point out it looks like we're in big trouble?!



He is using up his credits. We've played 1 decent match all season, yet the fans & media haven't turned on him. That's more credit than most get.

If his poor spell continues to Christmas it'll be irreparable IMO.

'people' can say what they wish but do not include me as people for the sake of this 'argument'. I was expressing my own opinion not others. I agree he's using up his credits but there isn't a manager alive who didn't have bad spells, If you'd read my entire post and didn't quote parts of it to suit your aims I'd have more respect, instead what you've done is react with a series of fallicies that only serve to dissuade me from discussing with you. I respect your opinion but selecting sections of a post and discarding the context to suit your argument isn't on.

.

I agree with some aspects of your posts today but your refusal to even consider other arguments sets you in a bad light, stubbornness is rarely a way to have others listen to your opinions.

PhiloCypher

Considering Sakhos form for France and psg before moving here , I'm completely baffled how people people are righting him off as being not good enough. The problem with our defence is clearly in the coaching(and currently a lack of confidence), with our squad selection and philosophy leaving our defense badly exposed time after time .

In fact If I had a problem with Sakho its that thus far he seems to be almost as much of a crock as Agger. As such there has been **** all continuity in our defense for the last 18 months , when everyone is fit Rodgers needs to decide on his cb pairing and stick with it regardless of whether we concede a soft goal or 2 or who is back from injury.

Now Sakho may well not make it at pool as Lovren seems to be "a Rodgers signing" and Skrtel has seniority but it has absolutely nothing to do with him being a poor player. A poor signing perhaps but that's something completely different. If we sold him on I'd have every confidence in him being a success given a uninterrupted run in whatever side he ended up in.

Francie Barrett

Turtyturd wrote: »

Whether Markovic comes good or not we shouldn't be pining after players of Suso's quality.

I am making the point that we may have just let a 20 year go on a free only to spend £20M on another more inferior 20 year old player.

tok9

Markovic has been disappointing. No doubt about it.

But he didn't make the European Golden boy list for doing nothing. He just hasn't been able to produce for us yet.

I would also love to see Suso get a few games. Said that so many times now. Such a shame he got injured after playing well.

Just a bit of perspective, Markovic has started 2 games for us. 2 games.

The lad is 20.

Turtyturd

Francie Barrett wrote: »

I am making the point that we may have just let a 20 year go on a free only to spend £20M on another more inferior 20 year old player.

Or we may not have.

Demosthenese

rarnes1 wrote: »

Just a bit of perspective, Markovic has started 2 games for us. 2 games.

The lad is 20.

Alot easier to bring a new guy into the team thats playing well than one which is suffering. So probably better to ease him in considering people love to write off players before they've even had 1 season.

Worrys me that Lallana can't maintain a place in the side this season especially when our current mids have been so poor. I'd love to hear an honest opinion from BR on that one.

Turtyturd

Demosthenese wrote: »

Alot easier to bring a new guy into the team thats playing well than one which is suffering. So probably better to ease him in considering people love to write off players before they've even had 1 season.

Worrys me that Lallana can't maintain a place in the side this season especially when our current mids have been so poor. I'd love to hear an honest opinion from BR on that one.

My only explanation is that he is being eased back in since the injury. Like I said earlier he seems like a Rodgers buy so would be surprised if he is being frozen out.

Agent Coulson

I wonder with the formation and tactics used yesterday by Rodgers was he trying to be to clever after Big Sam called him out as a manager who was to ridged.

Pardew said after that he was surprised and didn't expect that formation from Liverpool.

magma69

rarnes1 wrote: »

Just a bit of perspective, Markovic has started 2 games for us. 2 games.

The lad is 20.

That's true but spending 20 million on a 20 year old who's only started two games this season is questionable in itself. Just depends what way to look at it. I think we can all agree its too early to pass judgement on him as a player, not a signing.

klose

Forgot we are playing madrid tomorrow night...

magma69

klose wrote: »

Forgot we are playing madrid tomorrow night...

We're not playing Madrid tomorrow night.

5starpool

klose wrote: »

Forgot we are playing madrid tomorrow night...

Not tomorrow night yet, although that depends where you are posting from I guess.

If we keep it to 3-0 again we'll be doing well I suspect. Hopefully Madrid won't be too bothered in embarrassing us too much.

MD1990

klose wrote: »

Forgot we are playing madrid tomorrow night...

Its depressing that there isnt much hype around that game beacuse nearly everyone thinks we will lose heavily:(

klose

magma69 wrote: »

We're not playing Madrid tomorrow night.

The day after tomorrow night, m'bad.

klose

5starpool wrote: »

Not tomorrow night yet, although that depends where you are posting from I guess.

If we keep it to 3-0 again we'll be doing well I suspect. Hopefully Madrid won't be too bothered in embarrassing us too much.

Ronaldo has the chance to break rauls record that game too ahead of messi. Bale back in training for em too, could be a long night.

pmy.murphy

We need some adjustments in January. What do we all think is needed? Personally I dont think Goalkeeper should be a top priority but a new one would be nice at some stage once we sort out the even bigger problems out the field.

Personally I would like to see a defensive midfielder, an enforcer who can literally "cut the legs" from under the opposition and provide some protection for the back 4 to allow the other guys to do their thing. I do think a specialised player for this position would make a huge difference.

Also noticed that Saido Berahino is quoted at 25 million. We would be foolish to pay that. He may be good but not that good

daRobot

Agent Coulson wrote: »

ridged.

For Big Sam's pleasure.

rob316

pmy.murphy wrote: »

We need some adjustments in January. What do we all think is needed? Personally I dont think Goalkeeper should be a top priority but a new one would be nice at some stage once we sort out the even bigger problems out the field.

Personally I would like to see a defensive midfielder, an enforcer who can literally "cut the legs" from under the opposition and provide some protection for the back 4 to allow the other guys to do their thing. I do think a specialised player for this position would make a huge difference.

Also noticed that Saido Berahino is quoted at 25 million. We would be foolish to pay that. He may be good but not that good

The best striker we can possibly get that is what we need and what we needed in the summer.

OwaynOTT

It's not too early to have an opinion but it's too early to have a fully informed opinion.

Last year was beyond all expectations, that any sane fan could have.

Rodgers first season got better and better as it went on and the team finished in fine form.

It can be argued that for a season and a half, Rodgers had the team playing some great attacking football and generally doing well point wise.

He has had one half a bad season, when he started off which in fairness can be forgiven, as he was settling in.

There is november, December, January, February, March, April and May left in this season left. The criticism Rodgers is getting is OTT from a lot of corners. Things are bad but Rodgers has shown he can get teams playing well. Touching distance of 3rd, quarters of league cup and can still get out of champions league group - how can that warrant the crisis talks going in in here?

I thought people loved cup runs? Well we are in one and no disrespect to Bournemouth but it is reasonable to expect that the club will get to the semis. Which is an improvement on Rodgers previous cup endeavours with the club.

The result in Switzerland was disappointing but we can still get through if we beat Basel at home and Ludogrets away. Not easy considering our form but definitely doable.

The way I see the table at the moment, is that there is only one club that are our real league competition ahead of us. That team is Arsenal. It's between Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool for 3rd and 4th. There's fcuk all in it so far - no need to be stressing out but that's not to say concern is not warranted.

I'm concerned and pissed at the results and performances.

But then I reflect on the fact that Sturridge is missing. So many goals missing in the first 3 months.

Lallana is just back from injury and had a stop start pre-season but still looks good and it can be reasonable expected that he will further improve.

Balotelli will benefit from Sturrdige return.

Borini looks to be forcing his way in.

Allen and Can are just back from injury and should help the midfield. Can looks good for his few bits.

Defence is a major worry.

As shoite and all we are currently, it's far from over.

How there's is talk of Rafa and all the other stuff is beyond me. How has Rodgers not done enough to gain some leeway?

Liverpool have been also rans so much in the last two decades, with some glorious blips. An excellent season last, that built on a good finish to the year before and a little poor patch - which doesn't see us out of it for 4th/3rd, league cup and champions league knock out stages - and the knives are out.

rob316

Campaign on twitter to fly a rodgers out banner over Anfield during chelsea game. Idiots

Turtyturd

Would put money on that being started by a fan of another team.

Possibly from a set of fans who embarrassingly made a similar statement.

rob316

Check out @RodgersOutClub's Tweet: https://twitter.com/RodgersOutClub/status/529007565863411712

Disgusting. To slam the players as rubbish is unacceptable.

~Rebel~

rob316 wrote: »

Check out @RodgersOutClub's Tweet: https://twitter.com/RodgersOutClub/status/529007565863411712

Disgusting. To slam the players as rubbish is unacceptable.

Ugh, can we just not even give that guy any coverage. It's obviously not real. A banner to be flown high over a stadium, with the insulting part in tiny letters...?

OwaynOTT

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Ugh, can we just not even give that guy any coverage. It's obviously not real. A banner to be flown high over a stadium, with the insulting part in tiny letters...?

Maybe he's just a tiny chancer.

daithijjj

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Considering Sakhos form for France and psg before moving here , I'm completely baffled how people people are righting him off as being not good enough. The problem with our defence is clearly in the coaching(and currently a lack of confidence), with our squad selection and philosophy leaving our defense badly exposed time after time .

In fact If I had a problem with Sakho its that thus far he seems to be almost as much of a crock as Agger. As such there has been **** all continuity in our defense for the last 18 months , when everyone is fit Rodgers needs to decide on his cb pairing and stick with it regardless of whether we concede a soft goal or 2 or who is back from injury.

Now Sakho may well not make it at pool as Lovren seems to be "a Rodgers signing" and Skrtel has seniority but it has absolutely nothing to do with him being a poor player. A poor signing perhaps but that's something completely different. If we sold him on I'd have every confidence in him being a success given a uninterrupted run in whatever side he ended up in.

Its 8 months since Skrtel had a clean sheet in the league. 8 MONTHS!!

I actually find it hilarious that some dont see how bad he is for us.

Some criticise Lovren for not being the leader he was supposed to be.

I just wish people would see some of the irony that they expect a player just turned 25 when we got him a few months back to be the leader over a player who turns 30 in a few weeks and been with us almost 6 years.

The mere fact that people expect such things from Lovren actually highlights a double standard in views. The only clean sheet we had this season came when neither of the scapegoats had to play with him.

Utopia Parkway

rob316 wrote: »

Check out @RodgersOutClub's Tweet: https://twitter.com/RodgersOutClub/status/529007565863411712

Disgusting. To slam the players as rubbish is unacceptable.

Would be very surprised if that's a genuine Liverpool fan. I'm guessing it's the work of fans of another unnamed club.

Sir Gallagher

New thread? Anyone up for a meet up so we can all kick each others face in? DrumSteve nominates Chasers in Ballyer.

J Mysterio

Francie Barrett wrote: »

The difference between us and the other big clubs is that they have accepted that you need to spend massively to bring in top quality play-making/attacking talent. We on the other hand are missing out on these players because we got stung so badly on Carroll that the owners have adopted the strategy of quantity over quality. Before we even kicked a ball this season, I was appalled with our transfers over the Summer. Lallana was way too expensive, £25M for a 26 year old who although is a good player, wasn't likely to step up to be CL quality. £20M on Markovic is starting to look like the worst bit of business we've done. At least when things were going wrong for Sterling last season, I was always confident that he was always getting on the ball, trying different things and working his nuts off. I don't see that from Markovic. What's annoying is that we're about see Suso leave the club on a free, a player who has actually contributed more his career than Markovic. Massively overspending on defenders was also another big mistake. Skrtel and Agger might have mistakes in them but they are generally very good players. We've just spent £50M to replace them, and the defence looks even worse. The fact we miss out on so many of our targets is a damning indictment of our transfer policy.

Hopefully the owners learn from all this and in the next window we focus on quality.

I really really hope Suso isnt let go, he has real class. Didnt he score off the bench a few weeks ago (only to be completely dropped from the squad again)?

dogbert27

daithijjj wrote: »

Its 8 months since Skrtel had a clean sheet in the league. 8 MONTHS!!

Some criticise Lovren for not being the leader he was supposed to be.


The mere fact that people expect such things from Lovren actually highlights a double standard in views.

It could be down to Rodgers who stated that last season he didn't have a leader at the back after Carragher retired and that's why he signed Lovren.

dogbert27

I've been thinking about Balotelli and how strikers are confidence players. Should Gerrard have given the penalty against Spurs to Balotelli?
It would have got him off the mark, scoring in his first game and not have this albatross around his neck now of not having scored in the league.

Sir Gallagher

dogbert27 wrote: »

I've been thinking about Balotelli and how strikers are confidence players. Should Gerrard have given the penalty against Spurs to Balotelli?
It would have got him off the mark, scoring in his first game and not have this albatross around his neck now of not having scored in the league.

No.

dogbert27

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

No.

Why not?

Gbear

rob316 wrote: »

Check out @RodgersOutClub's Tweet: https://twitter.com/RodgersOutClub/status/529007565863411712

Disgusting. To slam the players as rubbish is unacceptable.

I think it's the same troll talking about 1000's of people showing up to an anti-Rodgers march before Swansea.

I wouldn't worry about it.