Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Warning in OP, 10/12

Soft Falling Rain

Lads you can't seriously take your anger out on Sturridge for something he can't control. I hate to say it but the blame lies on the man who punted everything on unproven players as Luis' replacement.

A classic example of a gambler taking an "educated punt", trying to reason that it's not a disaster if it fails. When in reality, he secretly thinks he's onto a winner, his ego won't allow him to think otherwise.

hadepsx

klose wrote: »

If you think we'll sign 4 players in january i feel bad for you son, we've got 99 problems and sturridge is just one.

Firstly I ain't your son.
Secondly I said in that order.meaning concentrate on what's at top of list.

Do you not think those positions are our weakest areas/ areas where the team are struggling? They may fit into your 99 problems list!

Benzino

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

Lads you can't seriously take your anger out on Sturridge for something he can't control. I hate to say it but the blame lies on the man who punted everything on unproven players as Luis' replacement.

A classic example of a gambler taking an "educated punt", trying to reason that it's not a disaster if it fails. When in reality, he secretly thinks he's onto a winner, his ego won't allow him to think otherwise.

Sorry, but that's bs. It is well reported that we attempted to sign Sanchez, Cavani and Falcao but they wouldn't join us/weren't for sale. There wasn't exactly a handful of top class strikers available in the summer.

Super-Rush

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

Lads you can't seriously take your anger out on Sturridge for something he can't control. I hate to say it but the blame lies on the man who punted everything on unproven players as Luis' replacement.

A classic example of a gambler taking an "educated punt", trying to reason that it's not a disaster if it fails. When in reality, he secretly thinks he's onto a winner, his ego won't allow him to think otherwise.

The same way Rafa had Vornin and N'Gog as back up for Torres?

NukaCola

Benzino wrote: »

There wasn't exactly a handful of top class strikers available in the summer.

This is such a lazy argument. We tried/They didn't want to come etc etc. All excuses.

We have a scouting network and a transfer team. If they could not sign a quality player within our budget, and lets be honest, we can offer a substantial terms, then we should get rid of all of them and get people in who can spot talent. It really is this simple.

Francie Barrett

GlenJo apparently submitting planning permission to knock down his mansion in the south of England to build some new digs. Seems like he expects to move south. West Ham perhaps?

Benzino

NukaCola wrote: »

This is such a lazy argument. We tried/They didn't want to come etc etc. All excuses.

We have a scouting network and a transfer team. If they could not sign a quality player within our budget, and lets be honest, we can offer a substantial terms, then we should get rid of all of them and get people in who can spot talent. It really is this simple.

The original poster said Rodgers took a "punt" on young unproven players and his ego is too big to sign a quality replacement for Suarez, despite all evidence suggesting we did try to sign a quality replacement.

Meh, call them excuses if you want, at the end of the day this isn't FIFA, it's not a case of just offering the asking price and then the deal is closed. Nor is there an infinite pool of top-class players.

daRobot

Francie Barrett wrote: »

GlenJo apparently submitting planning permission to knock down his mansion in the south of England to build some new digs. Seems like he expects to move south. West Ham perhaps?

QPR. Uncle 'arry loves his type.

NukaCola

Benzino wrote: »

The original poster said Rodgers took a "punt" on young unproven players and his ego is too big to sign a quality replacement for Suarez, despite all evidence suggesting we did try to sign a quality replacement.

Meh, call them excuses if you want, at the end of the day this isn't FIFA, it's not a case of just offering the asking price and then the deal is closed. Nor is there an infinite pool of top-class players.

Classic deflecting. Sure we tried, its not FIFA, we cant force them etc etc all excuses. I cant understand how anyone can be so flippant about incompetence. Its been this way for so long some people would make excuses for anything. We dont have the money, we dont have champions league, they prefer london, we have been out of the champions league for so long and we just got back in, players see us as a risk etc etc etc

Obviously its not just a case of meeting the asking price, or there is an infinite pool of top-class players. But we have employed people to do the deals and find the players. If they cant, get rid and bring in people who can.

Also, just to add, we put in a bid for Sanchez, but we didnt seriously go for any other forward other than Balotelli. So we did not "try" to sign any quality forward as you put it. Unless you can provide the evidence you have that we did other than clips from metro and the mirror.

Soft Falling Rain

Benzino wrote: »

The original poster said Rodgers took a "punt" on young unproven players and his ego is too big to sign a quality replacement for Suarez, despite all evidence suggesting we did try to sign a quality replacement.

Meh, call them excuses if you want, at the end of the day this isn't FIFA, it's not a case of just offering the asking price and then the deal is closed. Nor is there an infinite pool of top-class players.

Can I ask you a question; do you think there was a need to sign all of Ballotelli, Markovic, Origi and Lallana? 4 players signed for big enough money, 4 players who were either young/unproven or who had questions to answer.

Rodgers needed at least one quality and established player to try and fill the void left by Luis. Given the pool of pool of talent out there I don't think that was too much to ask.

Benzino

NukaCola wrote: »

We dont have the money, we dont have champions league, they prefer london, we have been out of the champions league for so long and we just got back in, players see us as a risk etc etc etc

All valid reasons why a player would not join us. Are you just dismissing these as excuses??

NukaCola wrote: »

Obviously its not just a case of meeting the asking price, or there is an infinite pool of top-class players. But we have employed people to do the deals and find the players. If they cant, get rid and bring in people who can.

So then it's the scouting team that should be replaced? (again, the original comment was blaming Rodgers). Also, you can hire a team and pay them millions to find a unicorn, doesn't mean they will find one. Silly example, sure, but there simply weren't that many top quality strikers available in the summer. I can only think of Martinez as a possible replacement, but honestly haven't seen much of him so I'm basing it more other's opinions.

NukaCola wrote: »

Also, just to add, we put in a bid for Sanchez, but we didnt seriously go for any other forward other than Balotelli. So we did not "try" to sign any quality forward as you put it. Unless you can provide the evidence you have that we did other than clips from metro and the mirror.

There were numerous reports that we made approaches for both Cavani and Falcao, a quick google will show you this. Sure, some are from the Metro, the Guardian, ESPN etc nothing official, but there wouldn't be anything official from the club about failed approaches. Of course you can just dismiss these as tabloid garbage with no truth behind them, and you may be right, but one could easily argue that approaches were made to players that never got out to the press.

NukaCola

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

Rodgers needed at least one quality and established player to try and fill the void left by Luis. Given the pool of pool of talent out there I don't think that was too much to ask.

Rodgers went with Balotelli as the quality and established player.
Rodgers was happy with Lambert/Sturridge/Balotelli as our forwards. Borini wasn't wanted and with Origi coming next summer i suppose he thought we'd have plenty of options.

Sturridge is injury prone, Balotelli couldn't replace Sturridge goals let alone Suarez and Lambert looks lost and definitely does not fit the way BR wants to play. A person paid for his opinions on players would have pointed this out to BR surely, sure BR should have known this anyway.

Balotelli has a role to play for sure, but he's not the prolific goalscorer we needed. Never was never will be. We didn't seriously try for any other striker last summer. This is all on BR and the transfer committee.

Benzino

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

Can I ask you a question; do you think there was a need to sign all of Ballotelli, Markovic, Origi and Lallana? 4 players signed for big enough money, 4 players who were either young/unproven or who had questions to answer.

Ballotelli was a panic buy, pretty sure even Rodgers admitted it. And although he has done nothing really, imagine what this thead would be like if we hadn't signed him and gone into the season with Sturridge (sicknote), borini and Lambert.

I don't think there was a need for both Markovic and Lallana. Lallana seems like a good buy if Rodgers would utilise him. Markovic seems overawed by the occasion so far, disappointing signing to date.

I believe we had no intention of signing Origi this summer, but our hand was forced when he had such a good world cup. We either brought him then or lose out on him.

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

Given the pool of pool of talent out there I don't think that was too much to ask.

Genuine question, what top-class striker could we have signed?

BenEadir

NukaCola wrote: »

We have a scouting network and a transfer team. If they could not sign a quality player within our budget, and lets be honest, we can offer a substantial terms, then we should get rid of all of them and get people in who can spot talent. It really is this simple.

Actually, it really isn't that simple.

If we can spot top level talent (as opposed to very young players with potential) so can all the other teams looking for the same quality and even if they don't as soon as we approach a player his agent (as he's paid to do) will contact other clubs to get some competitive tension going and secure the best deal for his client.

If another club in a more attractive location (London, Spain, Italy etc) and/or with a higher chance of league/CL success are prepared to offer the same financial package as LFC they'll get the player 9 times out of 10. LFC is a great draw for players who also happen to be LFC fans (Stevie G, Cara, Flanno, Lambo etc) but professional players not born in Liverpool or who didn't support LFC from birth don't give a toss. They want to earn the maximum amount possible, be at a club which is consistently challenging for honours and if that happens to be in London or a sunny city in Spain or Italy all the better.

We have to accept that for financial and geographic reasons we're fighting for players clubs like Chelsea, Man City, United, Barcelona, Bayern, Real Madrid, Juventus, PSG and possibly even Arsenal (Sanchez proving the point) don't want.

That is the simple reality.

NukaCola

Benzino wrote: »

All valid reasons why a player would not join us. Are you just dismissing these as excuses??

Money would cure a lot of those excuses. Some are valid for sure.

Benzino wrote: »

So then it's the scouting team that should be replaced? (again, the original comment was blaming Rodgers). Also, you can hire a team and pay them millions to find a unicorn, doesn't mean they will find one. Silly example, sure, but there simply weren't that many top quality strikers available in the summer. I can only think of Martinez as a possible replacement, but honestly haven't seen much of him so I'm basing it more other's opinions.

I never said anything about replacing BR, just the scouting network if they cant find a decent goalscorer. Surely you can agree that the amount of info available to the scouts who have tracked these players they could come up with better options. It is there job, either they were ignored or incompetent.

Benzino wrote: »

There were numerous reports that we made approaches for both Cavani and Falcao, a quick google will show you this. Sure, some are from the Metro, the Guardian, ESPN etc nothing official, but there wouldn't be anything official from the club about failed approaches. Of course you can just dismiss these as tabloid garbage with no truth behind them, and you may be right, but one could easily argue that approaches were made to players that never got out to the press.

I suppose this comes down to definitions or pedantics. Trying for a player to me would be the club making formal bids. That may be simplistic as a lot may be done behind closed doors etc but i think its safe to say we were nowhere close to signing the likes of Cavani or Falcoa for whatever reason. I'm not a supporter who craves big names by the way. We should really have been in for a goalscorer this summer and we weren't.

NukaCola

BenEadir wrote: »

Actually, it really isn't that simple.

If we can spot top level talent (as opposed to very young players with potential) so can all the other teams looking for the same quality and even if they don't as soon as we approach a player his agent (as he's paid to do) will contact other clubs to get some competitive tension going and secure the best deal for his client.

If another club in a more attractive location (London, Spain, Italy etc) and/or with a higher chance of league/CL success are prepared to offer the same financial package as LFC they'll get the player 9 times out of 10. LFC is a great draw for players who also happen to be LFC fans (Stevie G, Cara, Flanno, Lambo etc) but professional players not born in Liverpool or who didn't support LFC from birth don't give a toss. They want to earn the maximum amount possible, be at a club which is consistently challenging for honours and if that happens to be in London or a sunny city in Spain or Italy all the better.

We have to accept that for financial and geographic reasons we're fighting for players clubs like Chelsea, Man City, United, Barcelona, Bayern, Real Madrid, Juventus, PSG and possibly even Arsenal (Sanchez proving the point) don't want.

That is the simple reality.

All good points. We are competing with other teams for quality players.

However, if the scouting network came to BR with a player and recommended him highly as a goalscorer well then sometimes you will have to spend more to get the player you want. Especially when we lost Suarez.

NukaCola

Benzino wrote: »

Genuine question, what top-class striker could we have signed?

No one here is paid or has the time to "scout" players and come up with a definite answer. Our scouts are. And we came up with Remy and Balotelli.

Genuine question, is that good enough?

Benzino

NukaCola wrote: »

Money would cure a lot of those excuses. Some are valid for sure.

That's just naive to be honest, it's not like we are competing with the likes of Hull for these players, they are getting offered top wages at other clubs also that satisfy their other desires/needs such as consistent CL qualification and location.

NukaCola wrote: »

Surely you can agree that the amount of info available to the scouts who have tracked these players they could come up with better options. It is there job, either they were ignored or incompetent.

I would like to think so, but the reality is that there isn't an infinite pool of top-class players and I am struggling to think of many that were available in the summer. We could of course sign young players with potential, but that is the very thing the original comment was criticising, and which many on here have criticised too.

NukaCola wrote: »

Trying for a player to me would be the club making formal bids. That may be simplistic as a lot may be done behind closed doors etc but i think its safe to say we were nowhere close to signing the likes of Cavani or Falcoa for whatever reason.

Sure, but in most cases it won't get that far, and instead the club would ask the player's representative if the player would be interested in joining. To me, that's making an approach. If the player says no, then you have been down turned due to the many excuses you have mentioned previously.

I doubt many clubs go through the whole negotiations stage without even checking if the player is interested in joining the club.

Benzino

NukaCola wrote: »

No one here is paid or has the time to "scout" players and come up with a definite answer. Our scouts are. And we came up with Remy and Balotelli.

Of course, but top-class players are generally known to most as they have proven they are top-class. In my opinion it's a bit silly to say we should have signed top-quality without even suggesting any examples. Just cause we were looking for a top-class striker doesn't mean one was available.

NukaCola wrote: »

Genuine question, is that good enough?

Of course not. Never said it was.

Raif Severance

NukaCola wrote: »

All good points. We are competing with other teams for quality players.

However, if the scouting network came to BR with a player and recommended him highly as a goalscorer well then sometimes you will have to spend more to get the player you want. Especially when we lost Suarez.

According to many Reports, we actually outbid Arsenal for Sanchez, but the Player still decided to go there.

I'm as Frustrated as anyone here, but it really is not as simple as some here make it out to be.

What we could Blame though, are BR/Transfer Committee's 2nd/3rd Choices. They are simply not good enough, specially for the Money we've Spent on them.

What really Irks me is getting Players like Balo and Lambert, both of whom simply doesn't Fit our System. Did they not Scout them properly?

What's even more Galling is the Fact that they knew that Suarez was leaving. How could they have gone so Horribly Wrong with this?

I mean, if BR/Transfer Committee could have gotten someone like Lacazette and/or Remy, I really think we wouldn't be in this Predicament. And that includes Sturridge's Constant Injuries.

Mr Alan

BenEadir wrote: »

Actually, it really isn't that simple.

If we can spot top level talent (as opposed to very young players with potential) so can all the other teams looking for the same quality and even if they don't as soon as we approach a player his agent (as he's paid to do) will contact other clubs to get some competitive tension going and secure the best deal for his client.

If another club in a more attractive location (London, Spain, Italy etc) and/or with a higher chance of league/CL success are prepared to offer the same financial package as LFC they'll get the player 9 times out of 10. LFC is a great draw for players who also happen to be LFC fans (Stevie G, Cara, Flanno, Lambo etc) but professional players not born in Liverpool or who didn't support LFC from birth don't give a toss. They want to earn the maximum amount possible, be at a club which is consistently challenging for honours and if that happens to be in London or a sunny city in Spain or Italy all the better.

We have to accept that for financial and geographic reasons we're fighting for players clubs like Chelsea, Man City, United, Barcelona, Bayern, Real Madrid, Juventus, PSG and possibly even Arsenal (Sanchez proving the point) don't want.

That is the simple reality.

This is a nonsense and was equally true (actually probably more true in relation to wages/transfer fees) when we signed the likes of Sturridge, Suarez, Torres, Alonso, Mascherano, Hypia, Reina etc.

We're not Barcelona, Real Madrid, Man City. Anyone who manages Liverpool will have to deal with that. However, in world football over the last few years we are among the biggest spenders out there.

The transfer committees and managers job is to use the relatively significant resources at their disposal to get the best bang for their buck. To bring in the best players possible. No one is asking for Lionel Messi's all over the shop. But this summer has seen us spend £60million odd on Lovern, Ballotelli & Markovic. Anyone genuinely think that for the objectives of our team this season, that was a good allocation of the finances at our disposal?

Gbear

NukaCola wrote: »

No one here is paid or has the time to "scout" players and come up with a definite answer. Our scouts are. And we came up with Remy and Balotelli.

Genuine question, is that good enough?

I see this line of thought a lot but if you don't know anything about the process then how can you possibly determine what's good enough?

Maybe we've tried to sign every top striker in Europe or maybe we haven't and we're genuinely utter **** but in the absence of information you can't just make **** up.

The only bits of data we actually have are the transfers of Sanchez, Willian, Mhktarian and the likes and that suggests players don't want to come to Liverpool. We're at best about 12th in the most desirable clubs in Europe.

If our targets were going to teams less desirable than us or worse teams were consistently signings players we should've been interested in that's where our transfer strategy can be criticised. While there's bound to be a few I don't think there's so many that you can label our transfer strategy or our scouting network a failure.

NukaCola

I'll leave it at this because this could go on for ages and I dont have the time or interest to debate it any further.

We lost Suarez. We apparently knew he was leaving for a while. Our strategy was not to go out and find a replacement but build our squad and add goals elsewhere. I presume it was thought out and planned carefully.

We added Lambert/Lallana/Balotelli/Markovic as our attackers. That on top of Coutinho/Sterling/Sturridge was deemed good enough to get the goals we needed. We have scored 14 goals in 11 games. It clearly isn't working and may never work.

The vast majority would agree we need a goalscorer now, and even without the benefit of hindsight that we should have bought one in the summer. People working for the club and making the decisions should have been aware of this. (Sturridge is injury prone, Balotelli was never prolific, Lambert doesn't fit our system etc etc)

I would argue that not signing a goalscorer is a failing of the Management and Transfer committee, no matter what the excuse is.

Soft Falling Rain

Super-Rush wrote: »

The same way Rafa had Vornin and N'Gog as back up for Torres?

Ah jaysus I don't think Rafa ever had the kitty that Rodgers has had this season, or generally the support that both Kenny and Rodgers have been given to buy players.

BenEadir

NukaCola wrote: »

All good points. We are competing with other teams for quality players.

However, if the scouting network came to BR with a player and recommended him highly as a goalscorer well then sometimes you will have to spend more to get the player you want. Especially when we lost Suarez.

Sure but the problem is we can't outspend the clubs we're competing with. If they want him as much as we do they can match and (as Chelsea did with Willian and Salah if I'm not mistaken) they can also out spend us.

We just have to outsmart our competitors by identifying young and/or under appreciated talent which there is little competition for. It worked for Coutinho, Suarez & Sturridge but it's a gamble and because you're always buying something which is either under developed (Origi) or flawed (Mario) you'll always have a high percentage of failures but you have to keep recycling the failures and possible failures (Aspas, Alberto, Assiadi, Coates etc) so that in the end you keep the ones worth keeping.

It's far from ideal but you have to play the cards you have, not the cards you wish you had.

MD1990

The problem is Liverpool are wary about offering huge wages but not huge transfer fees for average players which is very strange.

joe123

Effectively we have a team thats without its two best players from last season and a combined 61 goals.

We replaced them with average players. Its no wonder we are struggling.

Markovich is young but I have seen nothing from him to suggest he will get better. 20 million there. I was against the signing of Lambert from the off. No way is he good enough. Borini, will work and run all day but again he is simply not good enough.

That leaves us with Balotelli. Not able to be a lone striker, is overhyped by some sections as a better player than he actually is, even though I believe he would be far better suited to having a strike partner.

All in all, our horrible Summer transfers are coming back to haunt us. I don't understand why people are saying we didn't try - we were in for Sanchez and reports suggest we bid more than Arsenal. So we did try....

But we didnt try hard enough. After Sanchez it was like we just gave up. Now at this stage we dont know whether it was FSG, "The Committee" or Rodgers who decided not to actively pursue bringing in a top talent that can play as a lone striker.

I seriously doubt Rodgers wanted Balotelli just from what he has been saying about him from day one. I would love to know the real goings on regarding our transfers.

Needless to say we are utter **** at them and now with Sturridge out again, our season is ****ed.

BenEadir

Mr Alan wrote: »

This is a nonsense and was equally true (actually probably more true in relation to wages/transfer fees) when we signed the likes of Sturridge, Suarez, Torres, Alonso, Mascherano, Hypia, Reina etc.

Thanks for proving my point there Mr Alan. None of the aforementioned were proven top quality players when they joined us, they were raw potential, under appreciated or flawed. Seven players out of how many between Hyppia signing in 1999 and Sturridge in 2012? Probably 100 players came and went in that period.

jcsoulinger

Who was the last proven world class player we signed? I can't think of anyone to be honest. We do not have the draw of other clubs nor do we have the riches, if we are to make it in to the elite again it will have to be done the hard way signing very good young players and molding them into a team that is better than the sum of its parts.

Go and beat Palace.

Two other rivals for top 4 play each other this weekend so anything other than 3 points isn't good enough.

Players and Management need to cop the fcuk on and start winning games

Gbear

rarnes1 wrote: »

Go and beat Palace.

Two other rivals for top 4 play each other this weekend so anything other than 3 points isn't good enough.

Players and Management need to cop the fcuk on and start winning games

Yup. Should be straightforward.

We don't have the 11th best team in the league. The failures this season aren't really down to who we bought - it's down to the failures of the management and players on match days.

joe123

jcsoulinger wrote: »

Who was the last proven world class player we signed? I can't think of anyone to be honest. We do not have the draw of other clubs nor do we have the riches, if we are to make it in to the elite again it will have to be done the hard way signing very good young players and molding them into a team that is better than the sum of its parts.

Im going to list three players.

Torres, Mascherano, Suarez.

ASOT

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

Ah jaysus I don't think Rafa ever had the kitty that Rodgers has had this season, or generally the support that both Kenny and Rodgers have been given to buy players.

Exactly, if Rafa had that backing we would have won the league in 2009.

ASOT

joe123 wrote: »

Im going to list three players.

Torres, Mascherano, Suarez.

They wernt proven world class when we signed them.

Francie Barrett

joe123 wrote: »

Im going to list three players.

Torres, Mascherano, Suarez.

From that list, only Torres would have been a coup for us.

Mascherano was off the back of a nightmare spell at West Ham and Suarez was still in the second tier of strikers (if I remember correctly, it was between us and Spurs to sign him).

JohnDaniels

He has to find some way to get a second man close to Balo now that Sturridge is out for even longer. I don't fancy our striking options so if it was me I'd be inclined to get Sterling to play off him. Let Balo drift wide if he wants and get Sterling to stay central. It may not be the answer but given the jigsaw pieces it's worth trying.

---

Balo

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Sterling

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Coutinho

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Lallana

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Henderson

Turtyturd

It's not as black and white as saying we sign world class players or those with potential. There are various levels of potential, nobody would have a problem with signing players in the level of Macherano, Torres, Suarez etc but when we are going after the likes of Alberto, Aspas, etc it's a bad policy.

We also should have been able to compete with any club financially for one major player this summer after Suarez was sold.

5live

rarnes1 wrote: »

Go and beat Palace.

Two other rivals for top 4 play each other this weekend so anything other than 3 points isn't good enough.

Players and Management need to cop the fcuk on and start winning games

That is this season in a nutshell.

It really is time to stand up and be counted.

joe123

ASOT wrote: »

They wernt proven world class when we signed them.

Haha I knew this type of post would come along.

As Turtyturd said, there are varying levels of "what is world class"

Torres was leading the line for his national team and was off the back off a great tournament for Spain.

He was a huge talent and very like when City signed Aguero.

Mascherano along was Tevez was considered one of the best players to be coming out of South America. Remember the fuss that was kicked up when West Ham signed them two? Yeah I doubt youd be seeing that if West Ham signed Borini or Aspas when we did.

Suarez, another player playing regularly for his national side and was being touted as the player to watch in the 2010 world cup.

Any football fan with even the smallest bit of knowledge on the game knew how good these signings could be for us.

There is a world of difference in those type of signings and the types we are bringing in now.

Super-Rush

About these failures so far this season.

Southampton - Win
City - Loss
Spurs - Win
Villa - Loss
West Ham - Loss
Everton - Draw
West Brom - Win
QPR - Win
Hull - Draw
Newcastle - Loss
Chelsea - Loss
Points 14(11 without QPR)

Games against those teams last season(excluding QPR)

Southampton - Loss (Sturridge, no Suarez)
City - Loss (Suarez & Sturridge)
Spurs - Win (Suarez & Sturridge)
Villa - Scraped a draw (Sturridge & Suarez)
West Ham - Scraped a win (Sturridge & Suarez)
Everton - Scraped a draw (Sturridge sub & Suarez)
West Brom - Win (Sturridge & Suarez)
Hull - Loss (Sturridge & Suarez)
Newcastle - Scraped a draw despite having a man advantage (Sturridge & Suarez)
Chelsea - Loss (Sturridge & Suarez)

Points 12

So we were 1 point better off against those teams with Suarez and Sturridge playing last season. For me i think we are still on track for 4th place this season.

jcsoulinger

Turtyturd wrote: »

It's not as black and white as saying we sign world class players or those with potential. There are various levels of potential, nobody would have a problem with signing players in the level of Macherano, Torres, Suarez etc but when we are going after the likes of Alberto, Aspas, etc it's a bad policy.

We also should have been able to compete with any club financially for one major player this summer after Suarez was sold.

Even when we signed the likes of mach, Torres and Suarez we were still signing the likes of aspas, ngog for example. Those three are the pick of the bunch, Given time our spend in the summer won't look so bad, I expect lallana moreno and can to be a success.<crosses fingers>

NEDDURC

JohnDaniels wrote: »

He has to find some way to get a second man close to Balo now that Sturridge is out for even longer. I don't fancy our striking options so if it was me I'd be inclined to get Sterling to play off him. Let Balo drift wide if he wants and get Sterling to stay central. It may not be the answer but given the jigsaw pieces it's worth trying.

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Balo

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Sterling

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Coutinho

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Lallana

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Henderson

I disagree, I think we've gone to playing to narrow this year. I'd like to see Sterling revert to a more orthodox wing player for abit. Beat some players and get some crosses in. Lets get Markovic / Borini to do the same on the other side.

......................Allen
Sterling...Henderson...Lalllana....Markovic
......................Balo

ASOT

joe123 wrote: »

Haha I knew this type of post would come along.

As Turtyturd said, there are varying levels of "what is world class"

Torres was leading the line for his national team and was off the back off a great tournament for Spain.

He was a huge talent and very like when City signed Aguero.

Mascherano along was Tevez was considered one of the best players to be coming out of South America. Remember the fuss that was kicked up when West Ham signed them two? Yeah I doubt youd be seeing that if West Ham signed Borini or Aspas when we did.

Suarez, another player playing regularly for his national side and was being touted as the player to watch in the 2010 world cup.

Any football fan with even the smallest bit of knowledge on the game knew how good these signings could be for us.

There is a world of difference in those type of signings and the types we are bringing in now.

Im not disputing that bolded part atall, all I said was they wernt proven world class players which is a correct statement. They were good players yes but not proven world class its quite simple.

The main fuss about Tevez and March being signed by West Ham was because of there third party ownership not because they were the best players to be coming out of South America.

the kelt

ASOT wrote: »

Exactly, if Rafa had that backing we would have won the league in 2009.

In fairness in the 07/08 season rafa spent £70m followed by a further £40m the following season when we challenged for the title. Having and using an experienced premiership striker in 08/09 might have been a help during that nightmare January and February when we only won 2 games out of 7 premiership games with 4 disappointing draws against the likes of City, Wigan, Everton and Stoke thrown in to the mix. But we ended up with a £7 million loss as Keane went back to Spurs.

To be fair you have to take into account player inflation since those days when looking at costs. Transfer fees were a lot less back in those days compared to now. The fees are crazy nowadays even compared to then.

Nerdlingr

joe123 wrote: »

Haha I knew this type of post would come along.

As Turtyturd said, there are varying levels of "what is world class"

Torres was leading the line for his national team and was off the back off a great tournament for Spain.

He was a huge talent and very like when City signed Aguero.

Mascherano along was Tevez was considered one of the best players to be coming out of South America. Remember the fuss that was kicked up when West Ham signed them two? Yeah I doubt youd be seeing that if West Ham signed Borini or Aspas when we did.

Suarez, another player playing regularly for his national side and was being touted as the player to watch in the 2010 world cup.

Any football fan with even the smallest bit of knowledge on the game knew how good these signings could be for us.

There is a world of difference in those type of signings and the types we are bringing in now.

The question was how many proven world class players have we signed.
Mascherano and Suarez werent proven world class when we signed them.
Torres, yes maybe, we caught him at the right time and as you say he was just off the back of a good world cup in 06.

joe123

ASOT wrote: »

Im not disputing that bolded part atall, all I said was they wernt proven world class players which is a correct statement. They were good players yes but not proven world class its quite simple.

The main fuss about Tevez and March being signed by West Ham was because of there third party ownership not because they were the best players to be coming out of South America.

Thats rubbish. I remember at the time everyone was talking about how in gods name a club like West Ham were able to attract those caliber of players. Then everyone found it even stranger how neither of them could seem to get a game at first.

Torres was most definitely considered world class. Very little difference in City signing Aguero and when we signed Torres.

You dont captain a club the size of A.Madrid and lead the line for the Spain National team on chance.

JohnDaniels

ASOT wrote: »

Im not disputing that bolded part atall, all I said was they wernt proven world class players which is a correct statement. They were good players yes but not proven world class its quite simple.

The main fuss about Tevez and March being signed by West Ham was because of there third party ownership not because they were the best players to be coming out of South America.

That is absolute rubbish. A five second google would have told you as much. Every top club in England was trying to sign them before they went to West Ham.

First link when I google the transfers - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/w/west_ham_utd/5301068.stm

ush

Can people stop using the phrase "world class".

tok9

Super-Rush wrote: »

About these failures so far this season.

So we were 1 point better off against those teams with Suarez and Sturridge playing last season. For me i think we are still on track for 4th place this season.

While I admire your optimism I wouldn't say we're on track for top 4 going by what looks like 2 poor runs.

I'd also add that of that list we beat Everton at home last season.

T-K-O

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

Ah jaysus I don't think Rafa ever had the kitty that Rodgers has had this season, or generally the support that both Kenny and Rodgers have been given to buy players.

Putting aside the Suarez & Torres money, there's not much difference. As far as I remember, back then Chelski were dropping 20 million on a single player and we put together a squad of ~10 million players.

Today, we're in the 20 bracket but unfortunately the cream ala fabragas will cost you 40 million.

Regardless the manager / owners, we tend to shop in a different supermarket.