Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Warning in OP, 10/12

Dont be at yourself

I'd go for:

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Mignolet
Johnson-Skrtl-Lovren-Moreno

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Can-Henderson

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Coutinho
Sterling

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Borini

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Balotelli

Harry Palmr

I've just seen that Sturridge could be in the Real Madrid match squad, this better just be a Reus. Whats the point of risking him in a game Liverpool will lose and in truth don't need to try and get anything from - its the last two games he needs to play.

x43r0

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I've just seen that Sturridge could be in the Real Madrid match squad, this better just be a Reus. Whats the point of risking him in a game Liverpool will lose and in truth don't need to try and get anything from - its the last two games he needs to play.

Jesus! With a front 4 of Ronaldo, Bale, Benzema AND Sturridge they'll hockey us :eek: :pac:

rob316

x43r0 wrote: »

Jesus! With a front 4 of Ronaldo, Bale, Benzema AND Sturridge they'll hockey us :eek: :pac:

Ya we would just about manage the other 3 :pac:

dogbert27

Augmerson wrote: »

I see what your saying. I think some more astute posters might make the case better than I, but I'll say it wouldn't matter. Balotelli can't play on his own. He needs another strike up front alongside him. Unless Rodgers starts Borini or Lambert alongside him or Sturridge comes back, we won't see the best of him in my opinion.

Yeah I agree, which I suppose is the question we're all asking, why isn't Rodgers playing Balotelli with Borini or someone?!

dogbert27

rarnes1 wrote: »

Urgency in the final 3rd and pressing the opposition. It's nearly non existant bar spells here and there

I remember in the Basle game Henderson running towards a man on the ball, stopping 1 metre short of a tackle and then running back to the space he'd left behind.

I was screaming at the tv "MAKE THE FN TACKLE!!!"

Last seasons pressing seems to be gone from the players who were doing it so well.
Henderson, Coutinho, Sterling. They've done it here and there this season but not consistently.

Harry Palmr

dogbert27 wrote: »

Yeah I agree, which I suppose is the question we're all asking, why isn't Rodgers playing Balotelli with Borini or someone?!

Because (and this is my best guess) he thinks that 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 protects the side better than 4-4-2 diamond, that its a cagier formation. As I posted last evening, even if that were true the defence is so shambolic it really doesn't help at all - in fact it nullifies what Liverpool do best.

The manager doesn't have enough faith in Liverpool attacking and retaining possession so he want to be more defensive, but the current set up nullifies Sterling as much as Balotelli so its a weakening not a strengthening. Meanwhile the defence frailties remain as glaring as ever.

If he got back to two up front with a diamond (and dropped Johnson) I think he might be pleasantly surprised.

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Too early for the match thread I suppose?! :pac:

PropJoe10

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Because (and this is my best guess) he thinks that 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 protects the side better than 4-4-2 diamond, that its a cagier formation. As I posted last evening, even if that were true the defence is so shambolic it really doesn't help at all - in fact it nullifies what Liverpool do best.

The manager doesn't have enough faith in Liverpool attacking and retaining possession so he want to be more defensive, but the current set up nullifies Sterling as much as Balotelli so its a weakening not a strengthening. Meanwhile the defence frailties remain as glaring as ever.

If he got back to two up front with a diamond (and dropped Johnson) I think he might be pleasantly surprised.

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Too early for the match thread I suppose?! :pac:

Probably some truth in that alright. The problem is that he seems to be totally muddled at the moment in terms of how he wants the team to play. He needs to decide on that, and fast, if we're to have any chance of finishing top 4 this year.

Pilsbury Doughboy

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

I'd go for:

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Mignolet
Johnson-Skrtl-Lovren-Moreno

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Can-Henderson

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Coutinho
Sterling

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Borini

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Balotelli

I'd go for:

...................Mignolet
Manquillo.....Sakho....Lovren.........Moreno
...............Gerrard/Can (SG for 60 then Can on)
.............Hendo.......Lallana.......
.....................Coutinho........

....................Sterling
................................Balotelli


If Sakho was fit I'd play him and drop Skrtel, Manquillo in for Johnson too, he's at least trying unlike going through the motions like GJ.

I think Lallana, Sterling and Coutinho are all wasted when out on the flanks, let the full backs provide width, Gerrard to continue in his normal role with Lallana and Hendo like pitbulls in front of him hunting the ball down, Coutinho at the tip of the diamond with Balo and Sterling ahead, Balotelli obv needs support and Sterling needs to play centrally, so in theory it should suit them, that's my take, I'd like to give it a go.

brevity

rarnes1 wrote: »

Urgency in the final 3rd and pressing the opposition. It's nearly non existant bar spells here and there

Rodgers might be thinking that our pressing is leaving gaps in midfield and decided that we need to be more compact is order to protect the defense

MR NINE

I agree rodgers is having a shocker, i think everyone can agree on that. However I do think he is trying to do things to change our fortunes. I think hes recognised how vulnerable our defence was and is trying to rectify it, knowing we can no longer afford to concede two or three goals a game and still get a result. Our recent failings in attack are partly down to a more cautious approach imo. Hes trying to tighten things up, which is slowly working, were conceding less than we were. However the flip side of this is our complete lack of a threat going forward. The newcastle game was a rare occasion where every single player had a poor performance. Of course a lot of this is down to rodgers; hendo on the left, sterling on the right and balo alone up front werent the greatest decisions. However there were also a lot of sloppy passes and individual mistakes. We wont look that blunt again in attack for a long time imo, I genuinely believe we havent been as bad as that in attack in any other game this season and wont be again. I think rodgers is trying to recreate the formula we had at the start of last season and the end of the prior season, when we were capable of 1-0 wins. The gung ho approach is gone with suarez imo. Unfortunately our team is completely shot of confidence right now, understandably so, and rodgers is bugging out a bit, making strange decisions. I believe sturridges return will give us a huge boost, and he will be a lot more suited to the system rodgers wants to use. However its gonna take time to turn it around, a lot of patience will be required. It should come as no surprise that suarezs departure has hurt us so much, but its certainly a difficult comedown from last season. I dont agree with the one man team claims but the team was definitely built around him and sturridge.

Connavar

Pilsbury Doughboy wrote: »

I'd go for:

...................Mignolet
Manquillo.....Sakho....Lovren.........Moreno
...............Gerrard/Can (SG for 60 then Can on)
.............Hendo.......Lallana.......
.....................Coutinho........

....................Sterling
................................Balotelli


If Sakho was fit I'd play him and drop Skrtel, Manquillo in for Johnson too, he's at least trying unlike going through the motions like GJ.

I think Lallana, Sterling and Coutinho are all wasted when out on the flanks, let the full backs provide width, Gerrard to continue in his normal role with Lallana and Hendo like pitbulls in front of him hunting the ball down, Coutinho at the tip of the diamond with Balo and Sterling ahead, Balotelli obv needs support and Sterling needs to play centrally, so in theory it should suit them, that's my take, I'd like to give it a go.

I would not drop johnson for this game. Other than the goal, he did a very good job of marshalling Ronaldo(so much so I remember Ronaldo moving away from that left wing half way through the game)

Hidalgo

Lord Trollington wrote: »

I'd drop Gerrard for Lucas.

What difference would Lucas have over Gerrard? Both suffer from the same crux, no recovery pace to turn 180 and go with a runner.
On 2 or 3 occasions v Newcastle a Newcastle player sped by Gerrard. Gerrard in turn body checked the Newcastle player and was lucky not to be pulled for obvious frees imo.
How many times has Lucas suffered the same fate with the end result being left for dead or a foul committed.

Pilsbury Doughboy

Connavar wrote: »

I would not drop johnson for this game. Other than the goal, he did a very good job of marshalling Ronaldo(so much so I remember Ronaldo moving away from that left wing half way through the game)

I wasn't really focusing on the Madrid game, more just talking about league games in general, I agree that GJ did ok in the last Real game though.

shamrock55

I think we should throw markavic in against madrid, the lad needs games

MR NINE

I have to agree with the people criticising our transfer activity. Our business in summer 2013 was fine with me. We didnt spend a lot of money and had to fill a lot of holes in our squad so a few punts were to be expected. Theyve been fairly unsuccesful signings so far admittedly, but with a net spend of about 30m? and over half that on sakho who i refuse to write off after a handful of starts and who could probably recoup the majority of his fee if we were to sell him, I dont think it can be considered a dreadful window, just a bit underwhelming.

Summer 2014 however is a completely different story. I know its far too soon to write players off and categorically judge them, but it doesnt mean we cant hold opinions on the players. Balotelli and lambert for example are two players that I was never too enthused about. Admittedly balotelli was a bit exciting, but he doesnt seem to suit the style of football weve been playing for the past couple years, nor lambert. We were crying out for a pacy, hard working,hard running forward to replace suarez. You cant replace his quality but you can at least try and replace his other attributes.

As for our policy in general, it was an underwhelming window right from the off. Maybe Im a dreamer, but once we had gained cl qualification I was imagining the likes of shaqiri, rakitic, sanchez, javi martinez, jackson martinez, griezmann etc being targetted. Of course some of these might have been unrealistic, and others may have refused our approaches, but this notion that we couldnt afford to pay competitive wages is quite concerning. I could understand taking punts on cheap fees and wages in 2013 when funds were low. In 2014, with cl qualification and 70m from suarez, we should have been able to afford at least one large incoming salary. I didnt have anything against the signings of lallana, lovren, origi, markovic, can etc but I think theyre all signings we could have made without cl to offer. It feels like a missed opportunity to bring in some real quality.

Francie Barrett

shamrock55 wrote: »

I think we should throw markavic in against madrid, the lad needs games

That would be like sending a lamb to the slaughter.

Markovic needs to start the next league cup game or an easier PL game to try get him more time on the ball so he can show what he can do as well as improve his confidence.

Hidalgo

brevity wrote: »

Rodgers might be thinking that our pressing is leaving gaps in midfield and decided that we need to be more compact is order to protect the defense

Similarly I think thats why he's persisting with 1 up front. 2 strikers =more open midfield =more exposed defence.
All well and good if the abovs helped shore up things at the back buts its remained consistent Fossits circus style defending.

Re the pressing, Lallana is the one that has impressed me the most. His workrate in chasing and harrying has been generally whats desired, yet he's not a regular starter

Francie Barrett

MR NINE wrote: »

Maybe Im a dreamer, but once we had gained cl qualification I was imagining the likes of shaqiri, rakitic, sanchez, javi martinez, jackson martinez, griezmann etc being targetted.

Been making the same point myself. We lost a world class player and replaced him with mediocrity.

- Rodgers himself said that Balotelli was a desperation signing.
- Lallana would not make it into a top 4 side and age is not on his side.
- Markovic hasn't showed much at all in his career to justify his fee.
- Lambert was a total head scratcher, but I suppose he was always going to be cheap backup.

For 2 of Balotelli/Lallana/Markovic, we could have had Alexis Sanchez or some other similar proven attacker. The problem for us though, is that FSG don't seem to want to have to shell out the fee and wages upfront for a player. The commonality with all our signings so far is that wages are a massive sticking point, with us seemingly refusing to offer any player more than £80k a week or so.

The board need to realise that the strategy of thinking that you can buy top 4 players for less than your rivals is just not sustainable. Just ask Arsene Wenger, the days of buying unknown foreign talent for buttons has disappeared as the game has gotten more globalized.

brevity

Ideally we would have Henderson, Can, Borini and Lallana on the pitch from the off. All these players have energy and the ability to press the opposition...Rodgers game plan at the moment is baffling to me.

It's almost as though he's resigned to letting the opposition take control of the game and plan for us to counter attack. The problem with this is we're too slow in moving the ball and there are not enough players in the opposition half...

Grrr!

Agent Coulson

MR NINE wrote: »

As for our policy in general, it was an underwhelming window right from the off. Maybe Im a dreamer, but once we had gained cl qualification I was imagining the likes of shaqiri, rakitic, sanchez, javi martinez, jackson martinez, griezmann etc being targetted. Of course some of these might have been unrealistic, and others may have refused our approaches, but this notion that we couldnt afford to pay competitive wages is quite concerning. I could understand taking punts on cheap fees and wages in 2013 when funds were low. In 2014, with cl qualification and 70m from suarez, we should have been able to afford at least one large incoming salary. I didnt have anything against the signings of lallana, lovren, origi, markovic, can etc but I think theyre all signings we could have made without cl to offer. It feels like a missed opportunity to bring in some real quality.

These are along the line of players I was hoping we would go for as well.

We could afford the transfer fees and wages for these players.

So be it if they didn't want to come we should be at least trying for them and getting turned down is better than not trying at all.

awec

I think BR will have learned a lot from the summer transfer window. The important thing is not to make the same mistake again. Our net spend was relatively low so hopefully there is still money in the bank.

That said we were in a bit of a unique position. Our numerous seasons without Europe meant we had a squad that really needed to be beefed up in terms of numbers to compete on both fronts - so all these new players aren't necessarily the wrong decision.

January is a bad time to be buying strikers too, which sounds like a cliché but it will be hard to find someone who's having a good season and available for sale.

Our biggest mistake of the summer might actually be passing on Eto'o, who would surely have provided more goals than Balotelli and been dead on for a shortish contract.

BenEadir

Agent Coulson wrote: »

These are along the line of players I was hoping we would go for as well.

We could afford the transfer fees and wages for these players.

So be it if they didn't want to come we should be at least trying for them and getting turned down is better than not trying at all.

The ambition would be admirable but what's the point investing recruitment resource chasing deals which have a very low or no chance of success? You could end up (as has happened before) at the tail end of a transfer window having been turned down by your initial targets scrambling round for what's left and paying inflated transfer rates as the selling club have you by the short and curlies.

It's also embarrassing being constantly turned down by the very top layer of transfer targets and sends a very poor message to the back up players we then have to turn to.

Liverpool isn't the city players and their partners dream of living in and LFC don't have the cash to outbid Chelsea, City or United so until something dramatic happens we're always going to be choosing from the 2nd tier of established players or trying to find talent which can be turned into 1st tier talent which we try and keep for as long as possible a la Johnson Suarez Couldn't resist that.

MR NINE

Im not sure it would be wise to use sturridge this week. I dont know if hodgson has named his squad yet, or if sturridge would get called up, but it seems like a better idea to rest him until after the internationals. Having said that, if hes fit hes fit and itd be a huge boost to have him back in the team, but id hate to see him rushed back.

Agent Coulson

BenEadir wrote: »

The ambition would be admirable but what's the point investing recruitment resource chasing deals which have a very low or no chance of success? You could end up (as has happened before) at the tail end of a transfer window having been turned down by your initial targets scrambling round for what's left and paying inflated transfer rates as the selling club have you by the short and curlies.

It's also embarrassing being constantly turned down by the very top layer of transfer targets and sends a very poor message to the back up players we then have to turn to.

Liverpool isn't the city players and their partners dream of living in and LFC don't have the cash to outbid Chelsea, City or United so until something dramatic happens we're always going to be choosing from the 2nd tier of established players or trying to find talent which can be turned into 1st tier talent which we try and keep for as long as possible a la Johnson Suarez Couldn't resist that.

So for the sake of not being embarrassed we shouldn't try for these players?

Chucky the tree

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

So that's it then? There you are now - wage bill says we can't achieve top four so shut up and accept our return to irrelevance within a season? Okay.

It's the same as people constantly noting to a poor transfer record that 'it's our policy'.

If your policies and structures won't deliver success then they aren't acceptable.

No. I'm saying if we can't achieve top 4 every year then sacking the manager after one season of missing out is pretty stupid. Or else if you want to direct your hate at someone do it at the owners.

T-K-O

Agent Coulson wrote: »

So for the sake of not being embarrassed we shouldn't try for these players?

Exactly, those type of comments drive me made. We should at least bid on the players.

Hidalgo

Agent Coulson wrote: »

So for the sake of not being embarrassed we shouldn't try for these players?

Depends on who else is vying for players attention. Waste of time courting Rakitic once Barca showed interest.
With Sanchez whilst the official party line is he chose London I'm curious as to what type of wages Liverpool were prepared to stump up. That mould of player was the ideal replacement for Suarez.

Agent Coulson

Hidalgo wrote: »

Depends on who else is vying for players attention. Waste of time courting Rakitic once Barca showed interest.
With Sanchez whilst the official party line is he chose London I'm curious as to what type of wages Liverpool were prepared to stump up. That mould of player was the ideal replacement for Suarez.

Trying get a player like Rakitic is what I want to see the club try and if that means losing out to Barca, Real, Munich so be it but that's not embarrassing.

Even losing out to a team like City, Chelsea or PSG isn't embarrassing because most people can see the player is going there for money.

awec

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Even losing out to a team like City, Chelsea or PSG isn't embarrassing because most people can see the player is going there for money.

Or to win things.

Let's face it, both Chelsea and City can offer much higher odds of silverware than we can. That's hard to compete with.

Chelsea also have the advantage of being in London, much more attractive to foreign players than the north west.

Agent Coulson

awec wrote: »

Or to win things.

Let's face it, both Chelsea and City can offer much higher odds of silverware than we can. That's hard to compete with.

Chelsea also have the advantage of being in London, much more attractive to foreign players than the north west.

Of course but my main point is that it is not embarrassing losing out on signing a player to these clubs.

What is embarrassing is not even trying to get a player of that level.

Utopia Parkway

Hidalgo wrote: »

Depends on who else is vying for players attention. Waste of time courting Rakitic once Barca showed interest.
With Sanchez whilst the official party line is he chose London I'm curious as to what type of wages Liverpool were prepared to stump up. That mould of player was the ideal replacement for Suarez.

Liverpool were offering Sanchez a bigger wage than Arsenal were. Also a bigger transfer fee to Barcelona. Actually read an article on it this morning. The family were set on moving to London though.

Kirby

Agent Coulson wrote: »

So for the sake of not being embarrassed we shouldn't try for these players?

Trying is the first step towards failure phil! :P

AdamD

This London **** is bollocks, if you can't see that there are some other reasons why a player might join Chelsea or Arsenal its a bit desperate.

And of course I don't mean every player in every situation would choose those clubs, there are numerous things to be considered when a player makes the decision but simplifying it to just 'London' isn't right.

Kirby

AdamD wrote: »

This London **** is bollocks, if you can't see that there are some other reasons why a player might join Chelsea or Arsenal its a bit desperate.

And of course I don't mean every player in every situation would choose those clubs, there are numerous things to be considered when a player makes the decision but simplifying it to just 'London' isn't right.

It would have been a part of it but I agree....I think Arsenal just winning a trophy and being ever present in the champions league would have been a bigger deal in my opinion.

Liverpool haven't won anything in a while and haven't been in the champions league in years. Players would see it as a risk. If Liverpool make top 4 consistently over the next few years it will become an easier sell.

Don't underestimate the manager too. Very few players from spain will know who Rodgers is where as Wenger has a reputation.

Talisman

Hidalgo wrote: »

What difference would Lucas have over Gerrard?

For somebody that plays in such a pivotal role in the team it's shocking that Gerrard can't read the game especially at this stage of his career. Lucas can at least read the game and is tactically aware.

SlickRic

Rodgers reckons our defensive problems are over-exaggerated.

excellent.

we're fúcked.

MR NINE

I hope rodgers is watching mnf right now

Utopia Parkway

MR NINE wrote: »

I hope rodgers is watching mnf right now

I doubt it. Liverpool are training in the Bernabéu at the moment.

marklazarcovic

Its not beyond the realms of possibility that mario was not brought in by rodgers too..

And he is intentionaly playing him in a system that wont suit him to prove a point..

Its been done before and wouldnt surprise me.

Still does not explain our defensive crapness of course.

Just a thought

Rodgers playing an unwanted player for almost 1/3 of the season while not getting results is tinfoil hat stuff imo

Sir Gallagher

AdamD wrote: »

This London **** is bollocks, if you can't see that there are some other reasons why a player might join Chelsea or Arsenal its a bit desperate.

And of course I don't mean every player in every situation would choose those clubs, there are numerous things to be considered when a player makes the decision but simplifying it to just 'London' isn't right.

Where would you rather live?

Talisman

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Its not beyond the realms of possibility that mario was not brought in by rodgers too..

And he is intentionaly playing him in a system that wont suit him to prove a point..

Its been done before and wouldnt surprise me.

Still does not explain our defensive crapness of course.

Just a thought

Rodgers made a big song and dance effort about the Balotelli signing - he looked into his eyes etc.

Agent Coulson

I wouldn't be surprised if Rodgers bought Balotelli to prove he could change him and do something Jose couldn't.

Agent Coulson

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if Rodgers bought Balotelli to prove he could change him and do something Jose couldn't.

Or.. he bought him and thought he might strike up a good parthnership with Sturridge, and they could get a decent tally between them.

Charlie19

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if Rodgers bought Balotelli to prove he could change him and do something Jose couldn't.

Is Rodgers that full of himself though?

Hidalgo

Talisman wrote: »

For somebody that plays in such a pivotal role in the team it's shocking that Gerrard can't read the game especially at this stage of his career. Lucas can at least read the game and is tactically aware.

The mind might be tactically aware but Lucas doesn't have the legs anymore.
The position isn't helped by FBs playing so far forward. Means more space has to be covered

Gbear

rarnes1 wrote: »

Or.. he bought him and thought he might strike up a good parthnership with Sturridge, and they could get a decent tally between them.

Or, as he said, he was the only one we could (edit: or would) get.

Agent Coulson

rarnes1 wrote: »

Or.. he bought him and thought he might strike up a good parthnership with Sturridge, and they could get a decent tally between them.

Maybe maybe.

Then why play him on his own in every game instead of letting him strike up a partnership with Lambert or Borini when he knows Sturridge will be out for 10+ games.

rob316

SlickRic wrote: »

Rodgers reckons our defensive problems are over-exaggerated.

excellent.

we're fúcked.

I would perfer if we focused on our attacking play to be honest.