Iceland decides not to join the EU

Sand

It looks like Iceland has decided not to pursue further talks with the EU. An application was made in 2009, the Icelandic government plan to withdraw it this winter. Both government parties and a majority of their parliament are not interested in joining, and there seems to be no purpose to carrying on further talks if there is no political support - seems sensible.

Iceland was remarkably focused on doing what was best for its own people during the crisis, something we in Ireland could learn from. Its no surprise they again are deciding to do what they see in their best interests rather than simply going with the flow. Rightly or wrongly, they are a democracy where voting seems to have an effect on policy.

"We have reached the clear con­clu­sion over and over again that Ice­land's in­ter­ests are bet­ter se­cured out­side the EU. That is our con­clu­sion and to my opin­ion that con­clu­sion is be­com­ing stronger. That is my hon­est be­lief. Not the least in the light of what we have seen hap­pen­ing within the EU in re­cent years."

He said two things had char­ac­terised the de­bate within the EU in re­cent years: Greatly in­creased po­lit­i­cal in­te­gra­tion, both be­fore and af­ter the fi­nan­cial cri­sis, and de­ceas­ing pub­lic be­lief in the EU and grow­ing dis­con­tent. "The EU stands in fact on great cross­roads, not the least be­cause of the euro. The euro has be­come an in­de­pen­dent source of con­flicts be­tween the na­tion states re­gard­ing ways to tackle stag­na­tion, high debts and per­sis­tent deficit.“

Benedik­ts­son said the prob­lems of the eu­ro­zone were far from solved and that Ice­landers should fo­cus on deal­ing with their own is­sues and strength­en­ing them­selves in the com­pe­ti­tion with other coun­tries re­gard­ing liv­ing stan­dards. „We have every pos­si­bil­ity to do that.“

Given the attempts by the UK and the Dutch to go after them, they - which they successfully defeated despite doom mongering at the time - it seems obvious that they saw they way small states like Ireland were bullied and threatened during the crisis and decided - probably correctly that they simply wouldn't be able to defend themselves if the ECB was to have leverage over them in the way the ECB had over Ireland.

alastair

Fair enough if they changed their minds, but it's a bit strange to then go on to be a bit of dick about a grouping they've decided isn't for them. It's a bit like breaking it off with your intended amicably, and then telling everyone that they're a fat slob.

Dan_Solo

I guess they took one look at Ireland and saw exactly the permanent economic slavery the EU had to offer. Pity Enda/Martin and the FG/FFbot army can't see likewise.

The Corinthian

Iceland's flirtation with the EU was so as to stabilize it's financial situation during their crisis:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/07/17/iceland.eu.application/index.html?iref=newssearch

Once the crisis was averted, there was no further need for them to join and so they withdrew their application.

Essentially, in the EU's enthusiasm to aid Iceland and see her join the bloc, we got scammed. A bit like getting engaged with a woman so you can get her into bed, then breaking off the engagement once you've done so.

Jim2007

Dan_Solo wrote: »

I guess they took one look at Ireland and saw exactly the permanent economic slavery the EU had to offer. Pity Enda/Martin and the FG/FFbot army can't see likewise.

BS - They originally left the EEC over fishing and that is why the are backing out now too. 40% of their exports are fish related and they regularly over fish. This would have to stop if they joined!

They scamed the public by failing to manage and support their banking sector, they scamed the EU during the crises and the are going to now continue exploite the livelihood of their neighbors by over fishing in the coming years.

Not much to be admired about this lot!

dlouth15

I don't see what the fuss is about. Basically, there was never general support for accession talks among the people of Iceland - even during the crisis there was general opposition to joining the EU - so the government of that country has done the right thing and called them off.

old_aussie

Good for you Iceland.

Keep what you have and decide what 's best for yourselves, the Germans don't always know what's best for others.

dlouth15

Jim2007 wrote: »

BS - They originally left the EEC over fishing and that is why the are backing out now too.

Are you thinking perhaps of Greenland? I don't think Iceland was ever in the EEC or any other predecessor of the EU.

Sand

The Corinthian wrote: »

Essentially, in the EU's enthusiasm to aid Iceland and see her join the bloc, we got scammed.

I don't think the EU had any enthusiasm to "aid" Iceland. Like any group, the EU has interests, not friends. Iceland helped itself, with bilateral assistance from the likes of Norway. It certainly got no help from EU members like the UK and the Netherlands. They seem to have a responsive, democratic government. Whatever people might think about the Icelandic solution, the people of Iceland voted on it and owned it. They have no real interest in endangering that by joining the EU.

hfallada

Its easy to forget the benefits the EU brought to Ireland, with all the negativity of the trioka. When Ireland joined the EU in 1973, we were one of the poorest nations in western Europe. Our level of industrial output in the mid 1960s was at the same level of that in the in the 1920s. We barely grew in the 1950s and growth was modest in the 1960s. The EU has given Ireland structural grants to build infrastructure we could have never been able to afford(most motorways and secondary roads have been partially funded by the EU). The EU forced Ireland to give Women and Gay people equal rights(something which no Government would have done for years). The EU gives Ireland access to the biggest free trade zone in the world. The EU is the biggest market for our exports.

The EU has given dozens of Eastern European countries citizens a higher standard of living. Even with all the rules and regulations the EU has. More countries still want to join. Iceland possibly didnt want to join the EU as it didnt have much to gain, as its a rich country.It would lose some fishing rights. But countries like Poland see the EU as the way from changing from a poor country like Ireland used to be. To the rich country that Ireland is.

Ireland used to borrowed money to stimulate the economy during the oil crisis in the mid 1970s and by 1987 our national debt was 129% of GDP. But FF introduced tight budgets and brought the budget deficit to 1.7% in 1987. Regardless of whether it was the EU or not. We had to cut our deficit. Its easiest to blame everyone but ourselves for our economic collapse. But after our harsh cuts in the late 1980s, our economy rallied. We had harsh cuts during this recession and we now have the fastest growing economy in the EU.

The Corinthian

Sand wrote: »

I don't think the EU had any enthusiasm to "aid" Iceland. Like any group, the EU has interests, not friends.

Oh, the EU had enthusiasm to "aid" Iceland, precisely because it had an agenda (Icelandic accession to the EU). I never suggested it was altruistic - quite the opposite given that I suggested that Iceland went back on the implicit 'price' of "aid". Surely I don't need to spoon-feed you, of all posters, that?

Iceland helped itself, with bilateral assistance from the likes of Norway. It certainly got no help from EU members like the UK and the Netherlands. They seem to have a responsive, democratic government. Whatever people might think about the Icelandic solution, the people of Iceland voted on it and owned it. They have no real interest in endangering that by joining the EU.

Support for membership in Iceland is low, no argument there, although I believe that Iceland has more reason to want to join than Norway or Switzerland.

The EU is not for everyone, at least not yet. I don't think, for example, it makes sense for Switzerland to join for the foreseeable future. It may likely make sense at some stage and if so I'd rather see Switzerland doing so in a position of strength when it can demand lots of concessions and privileges, rather than leave it until they have no option. Or it may never need to. My guess it will eventually, on balance, but it won't be for a long time.

But Switzerland is not Ireland (or Iceland). I find it hilarious when I hear the argument that Ireland could be like Switzerland from people who clearly have absolutely no clue about the country - look at CIE and SBB side-by-side and then tell me how Ireland could be like Switzerland...

dlouth15

I don't think the recent ECB letter controversy will do much to endear the EU to countries like Iceland to the extent that it is known about and discussed in that country.

Sand

The Corinthian wrote: »

But Switzerland is not Ireland (or Iceland). I find it hilarious when I hear the argument that Ireland could be like Switzerland from people who clearly have absolutely no clue about the country - look at CIE and SBB side-by-side and then tell me how Ireland could be like Switzerland...

Agreed - I visited Switzerland back in 2004 or 2005 (it was a good trip). Ireland was being hailed as a rich, prosperous wealthy country at the time. When I visited Switzerland, It became clear to me that Ireland was merely a poor country with (then) high income. Switzerland on the other hand was a truly rich, prosperous wealthy country which had obviously been wealthy for decades, with significant cumulative investment.

Meanwhile Ireland still couldn't get over the roads having more than one lane and not being cratered with potholes. That (anecdotal) experience did a lot to highlight how useful a simple figure like GDP or GDP growth actually is. Useful, but not decisive.

I think a lot of support for EU membership is that the EU can generally be better than the local regime/government parties. I recall Michael Portillo touring the PIGS during the euro crisis and talking to ordinary people about the Euro and its troubles. Everyone gave out about the crisis, and the problems of the Euro. Portillo each time had a final point: do you want the Euro, or the <insert old local currency here>. Invariably people from the PIGS chose the Euro, much to the confusion and bemusement of Portillo who couldn't understand the logic. My understanding was the locals viewed their local currencies with less trust, and associated the Euro with better governance. This is something a Tory like Portillo just wouldn't be able to empathise with and certainly couldn't understand.

My point is that I dont think people are enthusiastic about the Euro or even EU membership - they are simply less enthusiastic about the alternatives. For Iceland, I think the reverse is true. If they had been members of the EU or the Eurozone, they wouldn't have had the freedom of action that they did and the outcome would have been much worse for them.

alastair

Sand wrote: »

This is something a Tory like Portillo just wouldn't be able to empathise with and certainly couldn't understand.

I think you're being unfair to the man. He's lived long enough in Spain, as a native Spanish speaker, to understand Spanish sentiment regarding the EU and national politicians quite well. He understands it well enough, he just can't get past his own euroscepticism.

donaghs

dlouth15 wrote: »

Are you thinking perhaps of Greenland? I don't think Iceland was ever in the EEC or any other predecessor of the EU.

EFTA maybe? They're still in that, although with the UK and others long gone its basically just Iceland, Swiss and Norway. Iceland did have a "cod war" confrontation with the UK over fishing rights in the 70s.

They're still in the EEA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area), so I guess they don't need the EU. They're also in NATO, so have the "defence" box ticked too.

dlouth15

donaghs wrote: »

EFTA maybe? They're still in that, although with the UK and others long gone its basically just Iceland, Swiss and Norway. Iceland did have a "cod war" confrontation with the UK over fishing rights in the 70s.

They're still in the EEA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area), so I guess they don't need the EU. They're also in NATO, so have the "defence" box ticked too.

I think he probably meant Greenland, though I'll wait for him to clarify that.